I have to ask... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 34 Old Nov 1st, 2016, 4:25 pm Thread Starter
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I have to ask...

How many of you have scraped your center stand while riding? I have had my LT for 8 months now and am consistently excited at how well it handles corners. I get even more impressed in the aftermath of riding my cruiser (I scrape foot pegs ALL the time on it).

There have been a few posts on this forum that lament the ECHS on the 05+ LTs because they limit lean angle as opposed to the manual center stand (99-04) that is placed higher underneath the bike. That amazes me, because I don't think I have even come close to scraping my center stand and I feel I have ridden pretty aggressively on some twisties. Am I riding like "grandpa", possibly due to my background? Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to dramatically change the way I ride regardless of responses, but it intrigues me that there may be way more that I can get out of my bike because I am already so impressed.

Patrick Russell
I live and ride in Illinois, which has some of the straightest roads in the country.
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1984 Bluish Honda CB 650 (retired)
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post #2 of 34 Old Nov 1st, 2016, 4:58 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

I scrape my center stand all the time and the pillion doesn't like it. My scraping is usually 2up though and my new rear shock with a stronger spring to handle our load has greatly reduced the scraping. Even with the new shock, I am still shortening my foot pegs every time I ride but in their defense, they have been lowered

I have considered trying to get a ECHS for the scraping reasons only as I have no issue putting her up on the stand. Just not sure I have those flexible dollars yet. I know they are out there and also rebuildable.
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Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
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post #3 of 34 Old Nov 1st, 2016, 10:05 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

My replacement springs front and back fixed mine, I don't scrape any more I am also not an aggressive rider, before the bike just sagged when going into bends from stuffed springs.

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post #4 of 34 Old Nov 1st, 2016, 10:20 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I have to ask...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axle View Post
My replacement springs front and back fixed mine, I don't scrape any more I am also not an aggressive rider, before the bike just sagged when going into bends from stuffed springs.
Ahh. One of the first things Kirk did when I first got my bike was replace my springs. Maybe I'm not as much a "Sunday driver" as thought.

Patrick Russell
I live and ride in Illinois, which has some of the straightest roads in the country.
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1984 Bluish Honda CB 650 (retired)
1986 Red Honda Nighthawk 450 (abandoned)
Didn't own a bike from 1999 to 2012
1997 Black Honda Valkyrie (still own)
2005 Ocean Blue BMW K1200LT "Apocalypse" (bought in March '16)

IBA Saddlesore 1000

Bucket List destinations:
Sturgis (maybe)
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post #5 of 34 Old Nov 1st, 2016, 11:02 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

Welcome to the LT shock issue... Your shocks and springs are shot. The only fix is a new set of Wilbers or Ohlins...

I got my set from Ted Porter's... He sets them up to your weight and riding style etc.

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post #6 of 34 Old Nov 2nd, 2016, 12:02 am
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Re: I have to ask...

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Originally Posted by tvguy View Post
Welcome to the LT shock issue... Your shocks and springs are shot. The only fix is a new set of Wilbers or Ohlins...

I got my set from Ted Porter's... He sets them up to your weight and riding style etc.
Got my rear from Ted also only it is a TFX and it seems to be a good shock IMO with a monster hydraulic adjuster with 15mm of travel I think were Teds words. As I can afford it, I will get the matching front or at least do the front springs. It was a very noticeable difference in the way the bike handles in the corners both 1 and 2up so I am probably leaning towards a matching shock set up properly.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
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post #7 of 34 Old Nov 2nd, 2016, 4:37 am
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Re: I have to ask...

I can´t speak highly enough about the difference my OHLINS made to the bikes handling.

No doubt WILBERS owners will say the same thing.
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post #8 of 34 Old Nov 2nd, 2016, 8:36 am
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Re: I have to ask...

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Originally Posted by simoncharles View Post
I can´t speak highly enough about the difference my OHLINS made to the bikes handling.

No doubt WILBERS owners will say the same thing.
I think any of the after market custom built shocks will be a notable improvement over aging OEM with sagging springs. Keeping that in mind and without picking on any of the premium brands for functionality, Saddleman made a good point on another thread that he would buy the one with the longest interval between recommended rebuild and that is why I didn't go with Ohlins or Wilbers specifically. So far, I am not unhappy.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #9 of 34 Old Nov 2nd, 2016, 9:00 am Thread Starter
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Re: I have to ask...

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
I think any of the after market custom built shocks will be a notable improvement over aging OEM with sagging springs. Keeping that in mind and without picking on any of the premium brands for functionality, Saddleman made a good point on another thread that he would buy the one with the longest interval between recommended rebuild and that is why I didn't go with Ohlins or Wilbers specifically. So far, I am not unhappy.
I bought my bike at 39,000 miles. Before Kirk even saw it, he suggested that I at least upgrade the springs, if not both springs and shocks. Maybe I'm just easy to please, but the suspension with the new springs is phenomenal thus far. I only rode her for about 500 miles before he worked on her, and most of that was straight highway miles. So, the 7,000 miles I've put on her since is all I really remember. Can't compare pre and post new springs.

Patrick Russell
I live and ride in Illinois, which has some of the straightest roads in the country.
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1984 Bluish Honda CB 650 (retired)
1986 Red Honda Nighthawk 450 (abandoned)
Didn't own a bike from 1999 to 2012
1997 Black Honda Valkyrie (still own)
2005 Ocean Blue BMW K1200LT "Apocalypse" (bought in March '16)

IBA Saddlesore 1000

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post #10 of 34 Old Nov 2nd, 2016, 9:59 am
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Re: I have to ask...

Gorm, is there anyone around central IL that will work on BMW's? I need to get shocks and other minor work done but want to drag it to St. Louis BMW to get it done. Also, they are slightly pricey.
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post #11 of 34 Old Nov 2nd, 2016, 10:08 am
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Re: I have to ask...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
I think any of the after market custom built shocks will be a notable improvement over aging OEM with sagging springs. Keeping that in mind and without picking on any of the premium brands for functionality, Saddleman made a good point on another thread that he would buy the one with the longest interval between recommended rebuild and that is why I didn't go with Ohlins or Wilbers specifically. So far, I am not unhappy.
I installed the OHLINS after only having done 3.000 miles.

I wasn´t unhappy with the original shocks, it´s just that I know what a difference good after market shocks can make.

They did.
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post #12 of 34 Old Nov 2nd, 2016, 10:08 am Thread Starter
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Re: I have to ask...

Yes. There is Sportland BMW/Honda in Champaign, IL. Their link is: Sportland Motorsports BMW is located in Urbana, Illinois. Shop our large online inventory.

I've received great service on my Honda there. They haven't touched the BMW yet, except for programming my key fobs.

If you're patient and don't mind going a couple of hours north of Champaign, you may be able to get Kirk Johnson (Youtube Vide specialist) to work on your bike. That's who I go to. I trust him, he is reasonable, and he obviously know his LTs. You can contact him through his Youtube videos. I think he may only work on bikes during good weather, but am not sure.

Good luck.
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Patrick Russell
I live and ride in Illinois, which has some of the straightest roads in the country.
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1984 Bluish Honda CB 650 (retired)
1986 Red Honda Nighthawk 450 (abandoned)
Didn't own a bike from 1999 to 2012
1997 Black Honda Valkyrie (still own)
2005 Ocean Blue BMW K1200LT "Apocalypse" (bought in March '16)

IBA Saddlesore 1000

Bucket List destinations:
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post #13 of 34 Old Nov 2nd, 2016, 11:46 am
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Re: I have to ask...

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Originally Posted by gorm5 View Post
I bought my bike at 39,000 miles. Before Kirk even saw it, he suggested that I at least upgrade the springs, if not both springs and shocks. Maybe I'm just easy to please, but the suspension with the new springs is phenomenal thus far. I only rode her for about 500 miles before he worked on her, and most of that was straight highway miles. So, the 7,000 miles I've put on her since is all I really remember. Can't compare pre and post new springs.
I got mine with about 50K on it and rode about 5K on the stock shocks. One thing I learned in talking to Ted was that the spring rate never changes throughout the shocks life however, the spring length does so with age and no adjustment, the shocks move farther and farther from the original spring spec simply because it is now shorter even though it is applying the same NM per inch of compression. The OEM front are not adjustable at all so the front will simply sag over time. The rear has the hydro adjust but if you run long enough, even that will not be able to compensate adequately for the sag in the springs not to mention the loss of damping over time. The difference is marked from the old to a new set and with the ability to rebuild and reset the preload as the springs age, they should last the life of the bike with proper maintenance. Expensive as the new shocks are, I think they are a better investment than just new springs as you still have shocks with 46K on them and I think you would be able to tell a bigger difference if you changed out the entire units.
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Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #14 of 34 Old Nov 2nd, 2016, 12:21 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I have to ask...

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
I got mine with about 50K on it and rode about 5K on the stock shocks. One thing I learned in talking to Ted was that the spring rate never changes throughout the shocks life however, the spring length does so with age and no adjustment, the shocks move farther and farther from the original spring spec simply because it is now shorter even though it is applying the same NM per inch of compression. The OEM front are not adjustable at all so the front will simply sag over time. The rear has the hydro adjust but if you run long enough, even that will not be able to compensate adequately for the sag in the springs not to mention the loss of damping over time. The difference is marked from the old to a new set and with the ability to rebuild and reset the preload as the springs age, they should last the life of the bike with proper maintenance. Expensive as the new shocks are, I think they are a better investment than just new springs as you still have shocks with 46K on them and I think you would be able to tell a bigger difference if you changed out the entire units.
Ignorance is bliss, so as long as she rides as she does now, I will likely go at least another year with the shocks. Having said that, it's nice to know that the ride can get even better. On the list for this upcoming year are adding the auxiliary cord for the stereo that Zeiler suggested, adding John's performance chip, upgrading the awful stock headlight, adding Don Muddiman pillion arms. I will also likely add custom seats, likely Russell.

Patrick Russell
I live and ride in Illinois, which has some of the straightest roads in the country.
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1984 Bluish Honda CB 650 (retired)
1986 Red Honda Nighthawk 450 (abandoned)
Didn't own a bike from 1999 to 2012
1997 Black Honda Valkyrie (still own)
2005 Ocean Blue BMW K1200LT "Apocalypse" (bought in March '16)

IBA Saddlesore 1000

Bucket List destinations:
Sturgis (maybe)
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post #15 of 34 Old Nov 2nd, 2016, 12:40 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

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Originally Posted by gorm5 View Post
Ignorance is bliss, so as long as she rides as she does now, I will likely go at least another year with the shocks. Having said that, it's nice to know that the ride can get even better. On the list for this upcoming year are adding the auxiliary cord for the stereo that Zeiler suggested, adding John's performance chip, upgrading the awful stock headlight, adding Don Muddiman pillion arms. I will also likely add custom seats, likely Russell.
A nice little list. I am curious, is there an issue you are trying to correct with John's chip or are you hoping to get more blood out of the brick I watched Kirk's video and at present, I am not sure I have any issue with performance I want to address so is it is worth installing it even though I have one courtesy of Prof Snape although the status of it is unknown at present. The best increase in performance was learning to ride it in the upper RPM's and not like a HD.
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Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
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post #16 of 34 Old Nov 2nd, 2016, 2:55 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I have to ask...

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
A nice little list. I am curious, is there an issue you are trying to correct with John's chip or are you hoping to get more blood out of the brick I watched Kirk's video and at present, I am not sure I have any issue with performance I want to address so is it is worth installing it even though I have one courtesy of Prof Snape although the status of it is unknown at present. The best increase in performance was learning to ride it in the upper RPM's and not like a HD.
My understanding is that John's chip allows for better and more even torque throughout the power bands. I believe top speed is not really affected, but the acceleration throughout is more spread out and consistent. I have read reports that the low end torque is considerably better and that the low-rpm bogging is eliminated. Supposedly there is even a mpg improvement. I figure for $100 why not give it a go? That is my thinking behind the chip.

Unfortunately, during my Canada trip this summer I was forced to get gas at a bait shop in the middle of the Northern Ontario boondocks and my baby chugs and sputters on occasion when under 3,000 rpms. Once I get to 3K she is completely her old self. I've used Techron and it has helped minimally, but not much. So, it would be nice if the chip would help with that too, but I wanted the chip even before using that $#%@ gas.

And yes, I am starting to resist the urge to shift her when she starts "purring" at 5K. All the Valkyrie habits die hard, especially since I still ride the damn thing. I am not unhappy with the acceleration of the LT, but if I ever have to do some crazy expensive repair on the LT, I will likely use that as an excuse to get a 1600, even though they are not nearly as attractive as the LT. Those things moooove!!

Patrick Russell
I live and ride in Illinois, which has some of the straightest roads in the country.
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1984 Bluish Honda CB 650 (retired)
1986 Red Honda Nighthawk 450 (abandoned)
Didn't own a bike from 1999 to 2012
1997 Black Honda Valkyrie (still own)
2005 Ocean Blue BMW K1200LT "Apocalypse" (bought in March '16)

IBA Saddlesore 1000

Bucket List destinations:
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post #17 of 34 Old Nov 2nd, 2016, 3:16 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

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Originally Posted by gorm5 View Post
My understanding is that John's chip allows for better and more even torque throughout the power bands. I believe top speed is not really affected, but the acceleration throughout is more spread out and consistent. I have read reports that the low end torque is considerably better and that the low-rpm bogging is eliminated. Supposedly there is even a mpg improvement. I figure for $100 why not give it a go? That is my thinking behind the chip.

Unfortunately, during my Canada trip this summer I was forced to get gas at a bait shop in the middle of the Northern Ontario boondocks and my baby chugs and sputters on occasion when under 3,000 rpms. Once I get to 3K she is completely her old self. I've used Techron and it has helped minimally, but not much. So, it would be nice if the chip would help with that too, but I wanted the chip even before using that $#%@ gas.

And yes, I am starting to resist the urge to shift her when she starts "purring" at 5K. All the Valkyrie habits die hard, especially since I still ride the damn thing. I am not unhappy with the acceleration of the LT, but if I ever have to do some crazy expensive repair on the LT, I will likely use that as an excuse to get a 1600, even though they are not nearly as attractive as the LT. Those things moooove!!
The only thing I would be concerned with is the sputtering at lower RPM. That could be plug wires breaking down and arcing off to ground under higher compression or maybe plugs too. If you haven't done it, I would look at replacing the wires or at least inspecting them looking for those little white spots where arcing may have been occurring. Euro Motoelectric has a decent set that is within the acceptable range for price and I recently swapped my 15 year old ones out.

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If the chip was easier to swap, I might try it back and forth to see if the difference was really noticeable and not the placebo effect of it runs better with these new mirrors . I have no doubt it changes things so good luck with it. I may get around to it eventually. Maybe I will take Snapes chip and put it on a ribbon cable extension so I can swap it in and out easily and really check it out. I get about 46mpg Hwy as it is so not bad over all. I am tempted though, I just don't have any real issues with what I currently have.
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Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
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post #18 of 34 Old Nov 2nd, 2016, 4:23 pm Thread Starter
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Re: I have to ask...

Thanks for the tip, Gordon. The reason I think it's the gas is because the sputtering started immediately after filling up with that low octane, dirty, half water/half gas. (no, I'm not bitter) But, I will definitely have the cables looked at. I will let you know my impressions of the chip after I get it installed in May.

Patrick Russell
I live and ride in Illinois, which has some of the straightest roads in the country.
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1984 Bluish Honda CB 650 (retired)
1986 Red Honda Nighthawk 450 (abandoned)
Didn't own a bike from 1999 to 2012
1997 Black Honda Valkyrie (still own)
2005 Ocean Blue BMW K1200LT "Apocalypse" (bought in March '16)

IBA Saddlesore 1000

Bucket List destinations:
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post #19 of 34 Old Nov 2nd, 2016, 4:38 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

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Thanks for the tip, Gordon. The reason I think it's the gas is because the sputtering started immediately after filling up with that low octane, dirty, half water/half gas. (no, I'm not bitter) But, I will definitely have the cables looked at. I will let you know my impressions of the chip after I get it installed in May.
You are not the first to complain about a lingering issue after a tank of bad gas but it doesn't make any sense that it would not clear up after a tank or so of good fuel. If there was actually water in the gas, it could have permeated the paper fuel filter and could cause low fuel pressure from being clogged. That is difficult to test without special work and adapters.

Good luck and I will look for your post on the chip.
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Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #20 of 34 Old Nov 3rd, 2016, 12:31 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

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How many of you have scraped your center stand while riding?
OK, just looked up my recent dragon pics and I believe I have found one of me scraping my CS.

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2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #21 of 34 Old Nov 3rd, 2016, 6:32 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

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How many of you have scraped your center stand while riding? I have had my LT for 8 months now and am consistently excited at how well it handles corners. I get even more impressed in the aftermath of riding my cruiser (I scrape foot pegs ALL the time on it).

There have been a few posts on this forum that lament the ECHS on the 05+ LTs because they limit lean angle as opposed to the manual center stand (99-04) that is placed higher underneath the bike. That amazes me, because I don't think I have even come close to scraping my center stand and I feel I have ridden pretty aggressively on some twisties. Am I riding like "grandpa", possibly due to my background? Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to dramatically change the way I ride regardless of responses, but it intrigues me that there may be way more that I can get out of my bike because I am already so impressed.
It starts getting real fun when you're scraping the lower body work.

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post #22 of 34 Old Nov 3rd, 2016, 9:35 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

I scrape the center stand on my '06 all the time. Scares the hell out of wifey, but I cackle every time. I only have 20 grand on the clock, so I can't imagine that the spring is gone, although I can certainly see there would be advantages to progressive rate Springs, for sure.

Gordon, that pic of you riding the Dragon with your chin bar up scares the daylights out of me. Call me chicken, but I refuse to ride with that up, my helmet is decidedly stiffer with it down and locked. Doesn't seem adequate at all with it up. My 2 cents.

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post #23 of 34 Old Nov 3rd, 2016, 10:27 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

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Originally Posted by Mark65 View Post
I scrape the center stand on my '06 all the time. Scares the hell out of wifey, but I cackle every time. I only have 20 grand on the clock, so I can't imagine that the spring is gone, although I can certainly see there would be advantages to progressive rate Springs, for sure.

Gordon, that pic of you riding the Dragon with your chin bar up scares the daylights out of me. Call me chicken, but I refuse to ride with that up, my helmet is decidedly stiffer with it down and locked. Doesn't seem adequate at all with it up. My 2 cents.

Mark
Well, it is better than a half shell some people wear and I figure I have a 50/50 chance of it snapping shut instead of snapping my neck in a crash. I like to be able to see more than I can with it shut especially on roads like that. I also lower my wind screen so I am not looking through it so I can better see the imperfections of the road and negotiate them better. I hope it never comes back to bite me. You are not the first person to mention it though.
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Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
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post #24 of 34 Old Nov 3rd, 2016, 10:34 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

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Originally Posted by powwow View Post
It starts getting real fun when you're scraping the lower body work.
I can't get anywhere close to the body panels. My side stand and foot pegs keep getting in the way
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post #25 of 34 Old Nov 4th, 2016, 7:20 am
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Re: I have to ask...

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
I can't get anywhere close to the body panels. My side stand and foot pegs keep getting in the way
I had a hole rubbed in my body panel from scraping curves. I think it happens when you do a nose dive by hitting the brakes in a curve. Not a good thing to do.



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post #26 of 34 Old Nov 4th, 2016, 2:46 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

My shocks have over 100,000 miles & I haven't scraped anything in several years. I used to scrape now & then & my lower engine covers have some thin spots but I now try my best to not scrape anything.

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post #27 of 34 Old Nov 4th, 2016, 3:55 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

No scrapes, even though I've gotten pretty aggressive on some twisties...have dropped it twice now, though. Thinking about naming her "Oprah"!
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post #28 of 34 Old Nov 4th, 2016, 7:28 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
I can't get anywhere close to the body panels. My side stand and foot pegs keep getting in the way
The peg had folded up and bang, body panel. Scared the shit out of me and I tried not to do that again.

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post #29 of 34 Old Nov 4th, 2016, 9:33 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

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How many of you have scraped your center stand while riding? I have had my LT for 8 months now and am consistently excited at how well it handles corners. I get even more impressed in the aftermath of riding my cruiser (I scrape foot pegs ALL the time on it).

There have been a few posts on this forum that lament the ECHS on the 05+ LTs because they limit lean angle as opposed to the manual center stand (99-04) that is placed higher underneath the bike. That amazes me, because I don't think I have even come close to scraping my center stand and I feel I have ridden pretty aggressively on some twisties. Am I riding like "grandpa", possibly due to my background? Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to dramatically change the way I ride regardless of responses, but it intrigues me that there may be way more that I can get out of my bike because I am already so impressed.
I would never abuse my LT by dragging the centerstand. And those bright spots in the shadow in front of the rear wheel aren't really sparks ...
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post #30 of 34 Old Nov 4th, 2016, 11:02 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

I just see the passengers left hand gently tapping your shoulder, I can just imagine her saying, "are you sure your not going just a bit too fast?)
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post #31 of 34 Old Nov 4th, 2016, 11:28 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

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I just see the passengers left hand gently tapping your shoulder, I can just imagine her saying, "are you sure your not going just a bit too fast?)
I see they have coms so I bet it was more than that. I know Susan lets me know about every scrape as if I was not aware it happened.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
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post #32 of 34 Old Nov 5th, 2016, 3:42 am
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Re: I have to ask...

ha ha..... me too my ribs used to get quite sore... she has her own bike now!!!
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post #33 of 34 Old Nov 7th, 2016, 7:11 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

Yes, a few times but scrapping pieces isn't my goal. I am thinking about saving up for track day to learn some better skills and have a good time.
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post #34 of 34 Old Nov 18th, 2016, 3:32 pm
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Re: I have to ask...

I scrape the CS about twice a year, and yes, it is easier to do with the wife on the back. Could be old/original springs/shocks on my 05. It has not bothered me yet, but after reading this thread, I'm wondering what great handling I'm missing by not having new/current suspension. I'll put that on the list of possible improvements/maintenance, when the money tree drops some extra cast.
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2005 BMW K1200LT
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