Rear Wheel bolts coming off. - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 30 Old Oct 12th, 2016, 7:15 am Thread Starter
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Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Hello everyone,

So I've been riding Motorcycles for a very long time and this has never happened to me before.

I rode to Santa Cruz on Highway 17, those of you who know that road know how twisted it is.

I get to downtown Santa Cruz and everything is fine. I park the bike & go into a Records/Vinyl store to look at the vintage stereo equipment they sell.

I come out, start the bike and all of a sudden the bike is wobbling/has serious wobble, I thought maybe I have a flat tire, I check but the tires are fine. I ride slowly but there is significant wobble. I park it again and check and find out that the rear wheel is almost off the bike, the 5 bolts that hold wheel in place had (for some reason/this never happened before) come loose and 2 of the bolts fell off/were missing. I walk around a bit and find one of the bolts few feet away, I walk around for 30 minutes looking for the other bolt but could not find it.

I secure the wheel with the 4 bolts and tighten it. And I start thinking that if that wheel had come loose or came completely off while I was riding at Highway speeds & in those twists and turns on highway 17, I would have been gone, as in dead or worse seriously injured/paralyzed. Luckily it came very loose after I parked the bike & was going very slow.

Then when I got to my storage unit & tried to leave the battery was dead and the bike will not start. So I had to find someone with jumper cables to help me.

I re-tighten the 4 screws on the wheel again.

I checked them a day later/today and they were still tight.

So I have 2 questions:

1- Did this ever happen to anyone before, where the bolts came loose ? And how to prevent that ?

2- Does anyone have a spare bolt and the slanted spacer/Washer that goes around the bolt (not sure how to describe it) to secure the wheel, that they don't need ?

If not, where to get one ? I am sure the dealer is very expensive.


It has been suggested that someone had loosened the bolts on the wheel, otherwise the wooble would come on gradually....as the bolts became loose...... not all of a sudden as it did.

But I don't know who would just happen to have the right tool to loosen the bolts and why.

Any ideas/comments ?

Thank you so much.

Last edited by BMW_forever; Oct 12th, 2016 at 7:25 am.
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post #2 of 30 Old Oct 12th, 2016, 9:40 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Yes, it has happened before. Check out this thread:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...-fell-off.html
Most likely, whoever installed your wheel the last time did not correctly torque the bolts. The torque values are as follows:
Initial tightening is 50 Nm (50ft/lbs)
Final tightening is 105Nm (77 ft/lbs)
When I had my LT, I could not believe they had to be that tight, but they do. I also may have read that the bolts should be installed dry, meaning no anti-seize on the threads.
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post #3 of 30 Old Oct 12th, 2016, 9:58 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrevelino View Post
Yes, it has happened before. Check out this thread:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...-fell-off.html
Most likely, whoever installed your wheel the last time did not correctly torque the bolts. The torque values are as follows:
Initial tightening is 50 Nm (50ft/lbs)
Final tightening is 105Nm (77 ft/lbs)
When I had my LT, I could not believe they had to be that tight, but they do. I also may have read that the bolts should be installed dry, meaning no anti-seize on the threads.
Correct on all counts. +1
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post #4 of 30 Old Oct 12th, 2016, 10:24 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Note that 50 Nm is about 37 ft/lbs not 50.
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post #5 of 30 Old Oct 12th, 2016, 10:31 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrevelino View Post
Yes, it has happened before. Check out this thread:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...-fell-off.html
Most likely, whoever installed your wheel the last time did not correctly torque the bolts. The torque values are as follows:
Initial tightening is 50 Nm (50ft/lbs)
Final tightening is 105Nm (77 ft/lbs)
When I had my LT, I could not believe they had to be that tight, but they do. I also may have read that the bolts should be installed dry, meaning no anti-seize on the threads.
Thank you for your reply.

I had the rear tire replaced few months ago. I brought in the wheel to the shop and they installed the new tire which was flat and I reinstalled it on the bike and tightened the bolts with the wrench that is in the tool kit.

Mind you I have done the same thing before, when I replaced the tire....I tightened the bolts myself and never had this issue before.

So not having a wrench that shown the torque, how do I tighten these enough without breaking anything by over tightening ?

Thank you
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post #6 of 30 Old Oct 12th, 2016, 10:50 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
Thank you for your reply.

I had the rear tire replaced few months ago. I brought in the wheel to the shop and they installed the new tire which was flat and I reinstalled it on the bike and tightened the bolts with the wrench that is in the tool kit.

Mind you I have done the same thing before, when I replaced the tire....I tightened the bolts myself and never had this issue before.

So not having a wrench that shown the torque, how do I tighten these enough without breaking anything by over tightening ?

Thank you
Go to a Harbor Freight tools center and buy one or order one off Amazon. It is something you should have if you are going to service the bike yourself.
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post #7 of 30 Old Oct 12th, 2016, 12:10 pm
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkersh1 View Post
Note that 50 Nm is about 37 ft/lbs not 50.
Correct, I mis-typed it. Attached is a conversion chart someone put together many years ago.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf TorqueConv.pdf (12.7 KB, 69 views)
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post #8 of 30 Old Oct 12th, 2016, 12:24 pm
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

If they are torqued correctly you cannot loosen them with the supplied wrench without standing on it. Seriously for $9.95 you can get a 3/8 or 1/2 inch drive torque wrench at HF. Then a 17 mm deep socket and you will never have to worry about the wheel falling off.

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post #9 of 30 Old Oct 12th, 2016, 8:32 pm
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
Thank you for your reply.

I had the rear tire replaced few months ago. I brought in the wheel to the shop and they installed the new tire which was flat and I reinstalled it on the bike and tightened the bolts with the wrench that is in the tool kit.

Mind you I have done the same thing before, when I replaced the tire....I tightened the bolts myself and never had this issue before.

So not having a wrench that shown the torque, how do I tighten these enough without breaking anything by over tightening ?

Thank you
You can't. You need to invest in a decent torque wrench or hire someone to do your tire work. "Farmer tight" doesn't wok for critical fasteners like these.
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post #10 of 30 Old Oct 13th, 2016, 1:49 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
If they are torqued correctly you cannot loosen them with the supplied wrench without standing on it. Seriously for $9.95 you can get a 3/8 or 1/2 inch drive torque wrench at HF. Then a 17 mm deep socket and you will never have to worry about the wheel falling off.
So if I tighten them with a torque wrench and you say I can't loosen them without standing on the wrench (which there is no room to do so/no room to stand on a wrench to loosen the bolts/in that direction), how do I remove the bolts when I need to remove them?

I assume with the same torque wrench ?

I know it maybe a stupid question but wanted to make sure.
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post #11 of 30 Old Oct 13th, 2016, 2:20 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

I carry a foot-long piece of water pipe that fits over the end of the standard tool for the leverage needed to get them undone.

... at home I use a 3-foot piece as its even easier

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post #12 of 30 Old Oct 13th, 2016, 5:14 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws View Post
I carry a foot-long piece of water pipe that fits over the end of the standard tool for the leverage needed to get them undone.

... at home I use a 3-foot piece as its even easier
I can do that but everyone here says I have to use a Torque wrench.

With the pipe piece, do I just tighten it till it stops....I don't want to break it or strip it ??
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post #13 of 30 Old Oct 13th, 2016, 6:05 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Come on AJ you can't be that silly,, tighten the nuts with the torque wrench and UN DO them with the pipe or what ever if they are too tight.. I have never used anything but the tools in the tool bag to undo wheel nuts, having said this I am the only person who works on my bike.
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post #14 of 30 Old Oct 13th, 2016, 6:15 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
I can do that but everyone here says I have to use a Torque wrench.

With the pipe piece, do I just tighten it till it stops....I don't want to break it or strip it ??
heh, heh... looks like my original "quote" of your question about undoing them got lost.... Axle is correct, I was only saying to UNDO them with a pipe piece. Use the torque wrench to do it up if possible.

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post #15 of 30 Old Oct 13th, 2016, 8:25 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

I've had to R & R the rear wheel in the field before, and I was able to remove the wheel without a cheater bar no problem.
Put the wheel back on & used my foot on the lug wrench to get the bolts good and tight. When I got home I applied the proper torque.

The correct torque & torque sequence is located in the owners manual that should be kept with the bike at all times.

The thought of not applying the correct torque to the wheel bolts never even crossed my mind.........

I also recheck the wheel torque annually.


Seems like a lot of new owners are doing their "own maintenance" these days.
I just hope no one gets hurt, or worse.
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post #16 of 30 Old Oct 13th, 2016, 11:36 pm
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
I can do that but everyone here says I have to use a Torque wrench.

With the pipe piece, do I just tighten it till it stops....I don't want to break it or strip it ??
Ok, OK... we are being punked here... Nobody can be that stupid. (yeah, I said it)
Buy an expensive torque wrench. Spend more than $80. Go to Sears if you have to. A torque wrench will save your life.

DO NOT GOT TO HARBOR FREIGHT.

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post #17 of 30 Old Oct 14th, 2016, 1:58 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

I lost a wheel on a Corvair 95. It was purchased by a friend of mine and I was driving it home for him. Long straight road and the front left dropped. The wheel rolled up the highway. No strange feel to the vehicle until the wheel came off. Back tracking we found three of five lug nuts. Strange that there was no for warning.
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post #18 of 30 Old Oct 14th, 2016, 6:13 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
So if I tighten them with a torque wrench and you say I can't loosen them without standing on the wrench (which there is no room to do so/no room to stand on a wrench to loosen the bolts/in that direction), how do I remove the bolts when I need to remove them?

I assume with the same torque wrench ?

I know it maybe a stupid question but wanted to make sure.
My standard tool kit came with a screw driver and a plastic tool to unscrew the antenna, so I had to add real tools for everything. I carry a 1/2" breaker bar with a short extension (I think 3") and the 17 mm socket. Never use a torque wrench to remove a fastener. Search the net on torque wrench. There are many good articles on how, and how not, to use them.

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post #19 of 30 Old Oct 14th, 2016, 7:24 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

If you have a quality torque wrench, you will know to only use it to put on the nut or bolt.
It is easy enough to break a torque wrench using it to remove a bolt... That is why God created breaker bars.

All of my Snap-On torque wrenches are directional and there is a arrow on the handle.
When you spend several hundred dollars on a wrench, you treat it very well. I treasure mine.
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post #20 of 30 Old Oct 16th, 2016, 8:41 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Hi,

So is there a consensus here on how much torque to apply to these bolts ?

And do I use Locktite or not ?

Thanks.
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post #21 of 30 Old Oct 16th, 2016, 9:25 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

I believe the consensus is to use a torque wrench and the final torque is 77 ft/lbs.

This happened to me too. I removed my rear wheel to replace the tires and apparently neglected to torque the bolts. I lost one lug bolt, the others were loose. Since I tightened them with the proper torque I haven't had any problems.
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post #22 of 30 Old Oct 16th, 2016, 10:56 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
Hi,
So is there a consensus here on how much torque to apply to these bolts ?
And do I use Locktite or not ?Thanks.
Go back and read posts 2, 3, and 4.
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post #23 of 30 Old Oct 16th, 2016, 6:54 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Great, thanks. Just to make sure:

So it is 37 ft/lb initial tightening and then 77ft/Lbs. And NO Locktite.
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post #24 of 30 Old Oct 16th, 2016, 8:15 pm
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
Hi,

So is there a consensus here on how much torque to apply to these bolts ?

And do I use Locktite or not ?

Thanks.
Torque values are not determined by consensus, at least not outside the engineering team. They are specified by the manufacturer as are the thread conditions.

You really should get a good shop manual for your LT. You then would be confident that the wheel bolts are installed clean and dry and torqued in two stages to first 50 Nm to seat the wheel and then to 105 Nm to stretch the bolts to ensure retention under load and vibration.

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post #25 of 30 Old Oct 17th, 2016, 6:06 pm
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
Hi,

So is there a consensus here on how much torque to apply to these bolts ?

And do I use Locktite or not ?

Thanks.
This will help as well.
Attached Files
File Type: xls K1200LT Torque schedule.xls (66.0 KB, 66 views)

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2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #26 of 30 Old Oct 18th, 2016, 3:14 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

AJ 25 posts and you still don't have the bloody wheel nuts done up,, mate give us a break......
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post #27 of 30 Old Oct 18th, 2016, 7:14 pm
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

You guys are being played....

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post #28 of 30 Old Oct 18th, 2016, 9:26 pm
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvguy View Post
You guys are being played....
yes I know..

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post #29 of 30 Old Nov 3rd, 2016, 10:12 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axle View Post
AJ 25 posts and you still don't have the bloody wheel nuts done up,, mate give us a break......
I just saw this. Why do you think it has not been done ? I don't appreciate these accusations by some people on this list.
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post #30 of 30 Old Nov 3rd, 2016, 11:35 am
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Re: Rear Wheel bolts coming off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_forever View Post
I just saw this. Why do you think it has not been done ? I don't appreciate these accusations by some people on this list.

Well, I personally don't consider you a troll however, can you let the rest of us who were trying to answer your questions know if you were able to obtain a torque wrench and get the wheel properly tightened? There are some auto stores that will let you borrow tools like that with a deposit.
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