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post #1 of 28 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 4:12 pm Thread Starter
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Advice wanted on stopping

Just got my new LT and love it. I'm used to heavy Harleys but the front end of the LT is heavier. When I come to a stop on the LT I put both feet down and then use the front brake gently. I feel the handlebar wants to go over too much to the opposite side and I'm afraid of dumping the bike. Any advice on a good technique would be appreciated.

Thanks.

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post #2 of 28 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 4:20 pm
 
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Try bringing it to a stop a little quicker. Easing it to a stop slowly is tougher to keep the front wheel straight as you try to balance at low speed.
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post #3 of 28 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 4:26 pm
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Yes what David said also Practice, Practice, Practice. It will come with time

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post #4 of 28 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 4:32 pm
 
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Agree with the last two posts.

Came from HD myself, and yes the LT is a bit tricky to stop. Practice is the key. My stops still won't cause crowds to cheer, but they are getting better.

When I had the Ultra, I would slowly roll to a stop. With the LT, I stop quicker, if that makes sense.

Above all, keep the handlebars straight.

You'll be fine, and congrats on a great ride.
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post #5 of 28 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 4:41 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy
Just got my new LT and love it. I'm used to heavy Harleys but the front end of the LT is heavier. When I come to a stop on the LT I put both feet down and then use the front brake gently. I feel the handlebar wants to go over too much to the opposite side and I'm afraid of dumping the bike. Any advice on a good technique would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Billy
Rule 1: Keep your eyes up -- look straight ahead; does wonders for your sense of balance/security.

Suggestion 1: Some folks aren't comfortable with this, but I've done it for ~30 years: Get used to never putting your right foot down for a stop. That way you can always have available/use the rear brake pedal to control the stop, eliminating awkward throttle/front lever coordination issues.

One trick that makes this a cinch on each and every stop: At the moment you're just about to reach zero speed, input a little turn of the handlebars (about a 1/4") to the *right* -- this will make the bike naturally want to lean just a hair to the *left*, where your extended left foot will be waiting to take over the balancing. This gives you a sure-fire way of having the confidence to know that *you* can always determine to which side the bike will lean when stopping. This technique also eliminates the need to take your right foot off the rear brake at the last second. A short bit of practice and it becomes second-nature.

FWIW, in about 1 in 1000 stops, I'm not paying attention and have to put my right foot down. Other than that though, my right foot usually doesn't leave the right peg from the time I start a ride until I reach my destination (and I'm a daily urban commuter).

Mark Neblett
Fairfax, VA

Last edited by mneblett; Oct 30th, 2006 at 5:09 pm.
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post #6 of 28 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 5:02 pm Thread Starter
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When I bring it to a more rapid stop, as you suggest, do you just use the front brake at the end of the maneuver.
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post #7 of 28 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 5:11 pm
 
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Originally Posted by Billy
When I bring it to a more rapid stop, as you suggest, do you just use the front brake at the end of the maneuver.
I do because I have both feet ready for the ground. I have short legs and can't flat foot it, so if I start to lean opposite of my intention, I have to be ready. I know Mark is a short inseam also, so I may try his one foot technique.
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post #8 of 28 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 5:27 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddavenport
I do because I have both feet ready for the ground. I have short legs and can't flat foot it, so if I start to lean opposite of my intention, I have to be ready. I know Mark is a short inseam also, so I may try his one foot technique.
I use the same technique as Mark, and I also stay in first gear with the right foot on the rear brake pedal, the left foot on the ground, and both eyes peeled to the mirrors... just in case the cager behind me forgets to stop, in which case I have a better chance of evasion.

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post #9 of 28 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 5:36 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddavenport
I do because I have both feet ready for the ground. I have short legs and can't flat foot it, so if I start to lean opposite of my intention, I have to be ready. I know Mark is a short inseam also, so I may try his one foot technique.
Hey! I'm not short, I'm "altitude challenged"

The last bike I flat-footed was my wife's 883 Sportster in the mid-80's (and I don't care to relive *that* episode again!). I rarely place more than the toes/ball of my left foot on the ground, but then iff'n ya think about it, you really don't need any more than that to operate any bike.

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post #10 of 28 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 6:13 pm
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Ditto on all the above, especially Mark's comments.

I took the MSF Experienced Rider Course a couple years back - made a huge difference! By the end of the day, I was making u-turns, both left and right, in a 24' box, with nearly full steering lock. Also got to confirm the ABS operation on sand and gravel (not part of the program, just happened to be on the course). Not only do you hone skills, you meet some fellow riders. Check www.msf-usa.org for schedule and locations.

Congrats on the new ride - you're gonna love it!!

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post #11 of 28 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 6:21 pm
 
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The LT isn't a "parking lot" 'scoot like the HD and its higher center of gravity does make a difference. As many others have said, practice! Learn to love your front brake. The bike isn't going to go over as long as you're holding on. But maybe a little "parking lot" time is in your future for practice. Once you are comfortable your confidence and enjoyment will skyrocket.
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post #12 of 28 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 7:23 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy
When I bring it to a more rapid stop, as you suggest, do you just use the front brake at the end of the maneuver.
IMO, no front brake at the end of a stop. The final stopping should be with the rear brake and minimal front. Most drops I have heard of on the LT have come from using the front brake to complete the stop. DAMHIK.

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post #13 of 28 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 8:13 pm
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<I feel the handlebar wants to go over too much to the opposite side>

Not sure what that means.

Just practice stopping on level road with the front wheel straight.

You will have to practice standing on the breaks way past the point your gut tells you is safe.

Bob, 00LT
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post #14 of 28 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 8:46 pm
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Congrats on the LT.
Don't worry too much if you have to use two feet at first. I still have to use both feet once in a while. It is a heavy bike, stay in your comfort zone for now. As they already posted practice, practice, practice.
I second the ERC recommendation. They'll also tell you left foot down, right foot on the break, clutch in, be in first gear and right hand on the throttle.
Another thread on the subject below.

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14515

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post #15 of 28 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 7:38 am Thread Starter
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This is a great Blog. I really appreciate all the input.

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post #16 of 28 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 8:39 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy
This is a great Blog. I really appreciate all the input.
Just keep your hand off that front brake when the bike's under 10mph and you'll be fine. Using the front brake at low speeds is the best way to dump an LT.

FWIW, this is a "forum"...definitely not a Blog.
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post #17 of 28 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 9:39 am
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Mark is right on with rule #1 Keep your eyes up -- look straight ahead; and the addition of the slight right bar tweak just before stopping is something I learned from this forum and WORKS.

Joe is absolutely correct with what should be rule #2 Just (ALWAYS) keep your hand off that front brake when the bike's under 10mph. I personally use both brakes and when the speed goes below 10 MPH only apply the rear brake.
(BTW you can CRAWL forward w/ rear brake and throttle applying smooth controlled power to rear wheel)

My thought is that rule #3 is to STOP no less than 6-8 feet from any obstruction in front of you, giving you an escape path and some stopping wiggle room.
And equally important, rule # 4, when STOPPING just STOP, avoid the temptation of trying to creep along for the light change thus avoiding the complete stop.
Practice a lot without a passenger, and then instruct a passenger to be still at low speeds.

Best wishes.

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post #18 of 28 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 10:01 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe
And equally important, rule # 4, when STOPPING just STOP, avoid the temptation of trying to creep along for the light change thus avoiding the complete stop.
Oh, no, no, no!! How are you going to win the slow-ride contest at your next rally field events competition iff'n ya don't practice at every stop light??

Mark Neblett
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post #19 of 28 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 10:11 am
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I have to chime in since it looks like one technik hasn't been mentioned:
one can slow down the LT by 'engine brake' and slipping the clutch during the last few yards, then using the brake only in the last instance to bring the bike to a complete stop.

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post #20 of 28 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 10:58 am
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Originally Posted by mneblett
Oh, no, no, no!! How are you going to win the slow-ride contest at your next rally field events competition iff'n ya don't practice at every stop light??
Hey, trying to give the new LT'r some insight before snuggling up against the rear of an 18 wheeler or garbage truck!
On the other hand creepin' is OK if done before rule # 4; STOP 6-8 feet from any obstruction in front of you.....the drivers behind me get PO'd though. (I need to follow my own advise!)

BTW, your little H-B right tweak really does work when conscientiously applied.

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post #21 of 28 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 11:11 am
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missed technique

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_helmet
I have to chime in since it looks like one technik hasn't been mentioned:
one can slow down the LT by 'engine brake' and slipping the clutch during the last few yards, then using the brake only in the last instance to bring the bike to a complete stop.
Oh no, no no, I dare not mention the infamous "clutch feathering" of the LT's dry clutch for fear of the flaming backlash!!

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post #22 of 28 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 4:23 pm
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Controlled stopping.

What I was taught to do during the last 10feet or so of travel was to put the left foot down and forward so as the bike comes to a stop the heel of the left foot touches the ground and the foot rolls forward onto the sole of the boot which takes the weight of the bike as it stops, the left foot ends up in a comfortable position along side the foot rest in the normal stop position.

When this is rehearsed it becomes second nature and stops are planned and not just happening, if road camber is a problem then the right foot can be used, but in general you should use the left foot if possible, when this type of stopping is perfected it looks very slick and you as a rider are pre planning your stop.
Short legs may be a problem but pre plan your stop what ever method you chose and rehearse it untill you are confident off road then use it out on the highway..

Hope this helps, Regards The Big One, K1200LTSE
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post #23 of 28 Old Nov 1st, 2006, 7:20 am
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[QUOTE=mneblett]

One trick that makes this a cinch on each and every stop: At the moment you're just about to reach zero speed, input a little turn of the handlebars (about a 1/4") to the *right* -- this will make the bike naturally want to lean just a hair to the *left*, where your extended left foot will be waiting to take over the balancing. This gives you a sure-fire way of having the confidence to know that *you* can always determine to which side the bike will lean when stopping. This technique also eliminates the need to take your right foot off the rear brake at the last second. A short bit of practice and it becomes second-nature.

QUOTE]
Mark- I will agree with this technique. I found myself doing this subconciously, and I'm not sure how or why, but it really helps.

Other than that, one point that really helps is to make a definite and quick stop. On my Triumph Sprint, I can do coasting stops, both feet up balance stops, rolling stops, etc. It feels like a toy compared to the LT. But on the LT, if you do a definite stop, wheel straight, heads up, you should be OK.
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post #24 of 28 Old Nov 1st, 2006, 8:00 am
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Originally Posted by taylorjn
Ditto on all the above, especially Mark's comments.

I took the MSF Experienced Rider Course a couple years back - made a huge difference! By the end of the day, I was making u-turns, both left and right, in a 24' box, with nearly full steering lock. Also got to confirm the ABS operation on sand and gravel (not part of the program, just happened to be on the course). Not only do you hone skills, you meet some fellow riders. Check www.msf-usa.org for schedule and locations.

Congrats on the new ride - you're gonna love it!!
+1 thread, even though it comes up often.

I'm an MSF coach and still trying to get the LT in the 24' box. Another coach told me that I should be able to get the LT to 18' with a LOT of lean. YEAH RIGHT!!!! HE might be able to, but I don;t see me leaning the Beast over that far at that speed.

As for stops, do as the others say and practice practice practice. After getting a couple thousand miles on my 03, I can pretty much hit a nice smooth stop, left foot down, everytime. One up. like Big One described. Looks good when done properly. I hate to see and hear folks dragging their feet at stops and starts. Poor form.

Haven't done enough two up on the LT to get as good, but getting there. Not scaring the wife too bad anymore.

I also still need practice on the braking. Doing okay on quick stops, but not invoking the ABS yet. Not quite brave enough to give it that big a squeeze just yet.

Rando

Last edited by rando; Nov 1st, 2006 at 8:06 am.
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post #25 of 28 Old Nov 1st, 2006, 3:15 pm
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Thumbs up Another .02 cents worth

Howdy,
Lots of good suggestions here and they all work..
Here's what I've learned to do to keep the beast from laying down at stops.

First, I always use both front and rear brakes for the initial braking.

Then use only the rear brake, left foot out to catch the ground the final 30 feet or so. This is usually a fairly aggresive stop. Practice really helps.

I find by doing this it keeps the rear brake from squealing. OEM pads and I've yet to hear a squeal. Been 14,000 miles since May of '06. One 1600 mile highway trip and 3-600 miles similar trips. The balance is within 100 miles of home. The shortest trips are to town and back which is about 25 miles.

Happy stopping. We have a club for the drop when you do it. LOL

It sure surprised me.


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post #26 of 28 Old Nov 2nd, 2006, 4:05 am
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Controlled Stopping

Can anyone state the set up of the braking system on a K1200LT?
I believe that the foot brake works both brakes in the same way as the hand brake lever with the exception that if the foot brake lever only is pressed lightly it puts a bias on the back brake only.
This can be tested by trying emergency stops on a gravel surface,
try hand brake lever only and you get sharp braking with abs deployed,
Then try foot brake only and if use with force you get the same braking as using the hand brake.
Now try using the footbrake in a gentle way and it feels that only the back brake is working.
Is there an well informed rider out there who can give exact information on the linked braking system?
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post #27 of 28 Old Nov 2nd, 2006, 8:04 am
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The LT's brakes are not linked, at least not in the same way as Honda and other are linking their brakes. They're connected through a computer processor, and BMW refers to this arrangement as Integral ABS. The '99-'01 LTs are referred to as ABS II, but not Integral.

There's more info in this thread.

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post #28 of 28 Old Nov 2nd, 2006, 8:17 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigOne
Can anyone state the set up of the braking system on a K1200LT?
I believe that the foot brake works both brakes in the same way as the hand brake lever with the exception that if the foot brake lever only is pressed lightly it puts a bias on the back brake only.
This can be tested by trying emergency stops on a gravel surface,
try hand brake lever only and you get sharp braking with abs deployed,
Then try foot brake only and if use with force you get the same braking as using the hand brake.
Now try using the footbrake in a gentle way and it feels that only the back brake is working.
Is there an well informed rider out there who can give exact information on the linked braking system?
See post #3 in this thread:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15918

And yes, the system is programmed to allow light rear application without trigger front application - but the threshold for kicking the front is pretty low.

Mark Neblett
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