Rear brake pad replacement - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 22 Old Oct 29th, 2006, 9:46 am Thread Starter
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Question Rear brake pad replacement

My rear brakes started making a lot of noise recently. Since I read so much about this being a common problem I was going to wait to let the dealer look at it after our Southwest tech session in November. I had a chance to check the pads yesterday and it was apparent they were at the end of life so I got a kit and went about the work.

The original owner only put 4K miles on so I don't think this had been done before on the bike. (I'm at 12K.) When I went to remove the pads there was a thin gasket type material behind them shown here:



This material is not mentioned in the BMW Service Manual or the Clymer. The inboard shim came out OK but the outboard stuck to the caliper like this:



It was a HUGE pain to clean this up. Tried a gasket scraper, gasket remover, finally ended up with a razor blade.

Anyone seen these shims before? Are they just put in at the factory? Odd to me that there is no mention of them in the manuals. Here is what is included with the new kit:



Thanks for any insight.

Dan
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post #2 of 22 Old Oct 29th, 2006, 10:09 am
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Rear Brakes

Just changed my rear out last Saturday to the EBC pads and didn't see any gasket like that, I wonder what the purpose would be other than to try and cut down on the noise, maybe a previous owner fabricated? See you on the 18th. John

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post #3 of 22 Old Oct 29th, 2006, 10:21 am
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Some people have been known to put a small piece of cereal box, or similar cardboard, between the pads and the pistons to keep the pads from going into oscillation which causes the noise you hear.

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post #4 of 22 Old Oct 29th, 2006, 12:23 pm
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The new kit included pads, pins, clips, and the anti-rattle spring? Interesting. I'm used to just getting the pads. Also, it looks like the anti-rattle spring has a couple of extra tabs riveted on.

Can you give us the BMW part # for this kit?

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post #5 of 22 Old Oct 29th, 2006, 2:07 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
The new kit included pads, pins, clips, and the anti-rattle spring? Interesting. I'm used to just getting the pads. Also, it looks like the anti-rattle spring has a couple of extra tabs riveted on.
Interesting note there Ken! That spring is different than our existing ones. Maybe they intended to help quiet things down a little with the addition?

Those are the newer BMW pads, and they worked great for me last change I did. No real squealing like the older BMW pads which were squared off, not tapered like these. I figured that taper had a lot to do with them being quieter. And like you, the kit is a new one on me. I have always just asked for, and gotten, the 2 pads.

As far as the other shim type stuff, I agree that it is just something that someone previously installed to help quiet things a little. What you show in your last pic is everything you need to replace the pads.

Now that I think about it, it is probably just a way for BMW to charge more for parts!

John

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post #6 of 22 Old Oct 29th, 2006, 2:19 pm Thread Starter
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May have been oversold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
The new kit included pads, pins, clips, and the anti-rattle spring? Interesting. I'm used to just getting the pads. Also, it looks like the anti-rattle spring has a couple of extra tabs riveted on.
Actually no. The pins, clips and anti-rattle were in a separate kit from the pads. Do you not usually replace these with the pads? Was I "oversold" a bit?
Here is the old and new spring next to each other:


I don't think there was much difference between these in my case.

Dan
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post #7 of 22 Old Oct 29th, 2006, 3:02 pm
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Smile OEM Pads & Shim

I checked my rear pads recently and also noticed the plastic shim OEM attached to the rear of the pads. Taper also. Seemed to me that the plastic material was bonded to the pad, but possibly this may degrade over time. Low Kms at my check (10,000 or so) and in very good condition. I have bought some pad bonding compound to try, but reluctant to goop up the piston faces as by removing the pins the pads drop free and are easy to check/replace. Rear is a little noisy, but not too annoying, and mainly when braking lightly.
Just a thought looking at your photos (very good), do you think the PO applied some bonding material and this was what was adhering to the pistons?

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post #8 of 22 Old Oct 29th, 2006, 4:56 pm
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Thanks for the close-up pics. I don't remember the center tabs on my old rear brake retainer, but it's been a while since I had it apart. I'd go check, but my bike is currently 1K miles away. Sure does feel weird going in to the garage and having a big hole where the bike is supposed to be.

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post #9 of 22 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 2:55 pm
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OK, I guess I'll have to go look at my set-up when i get home today. It sure does look different than the clip I am used to, but memory cells do fade with time.

In answer to your question about being oversold on parts Dan, I think that is possible. I have never replaced the pins or the clip in over 64K and several pad replacements. But, the pins do need a little cleaning up prior to re-installing a lot of times, so it surely won't hurt to have new ones. I would say to just clean up the old ones and keep a set ready to swap out whenever you do the pads again! As far as the clip goes, you now have a spare!

My $.02.

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post #10 of 22 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 3:07 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilton
... do you think the PO applied some bonding material and this was what was adhering to the pistons?
Based on the parts of the shim that stuck and what came out easy and the way it broke apart, I would say that it was just a function of heat and pressure that bonded them. They looked like they were made from a sheet of thin gasket material and the behavior is familiar to me through using this kind of stuff for thermostat housings and the like for cages. If they were in fact home made they were very well done. I would probably go with a more high temp material meant for exhaust manifold gaskets if I were to attempt this myself. I can't imagine cardboard holding up in there. Thanks.

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post #11 of 22 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 3:20 pm
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I re-use this clip although my pads are now EBC... Works fine!

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post #12 of 22 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 7:07 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Thanks for the close-up pics. I don't remember the center tabs on my old rear brake retainer, but it's been a while since I had it apart. I'd go check, but my bike is currently 1K miles away. Sure does feel weird going in to the garage and having a big hole where the bike is supposed to be.
You were right Ken (as was I!) there was no riveted piece on the older clips. At least up to 2000 there was not. I am attaching a pic of mine along with one of the original pins, just to show what 64K and 6 years of wear and tear did not do to them. (Yeah, I know the miles are low, but the first 3 years were in Juneau! 40 miles to the end of the road, ya know?)

Like I said earlier, won't hurt to change them, but I sure don't see the need.

John
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post #13 of 22 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 9:10 pm
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John, rear clip on my '02 looks just like your pic.

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post #14 of 22 Old Oct 30th, 2006, 9:27 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotter
John, rear clip on my '02 looks just like your pic.
So it's starting to look as if they didn't change the clip till at least '03. I'm starting to think that it may have been when they went from the "Brembo" labeled calipers to the "BMW" labeled ones. Was that around '03, or was that sooner?

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post #15 of 22 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 12:25 am
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My '02 was built in 01/01 and has the Integral ABS (BMW calipers). It has the old style clip.

I may try the new clip the next time I change rear pads. If I keep the bike that long, that is.

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post #16 of 22 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 6:27 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaFish
So it's starting to look as if they didn't change the clip till at least '03. I'm starting to think that it may have been when they went from the "Brembo" labeled calipers to the "BMW" labeled ones. Was that around '03, or was that sooner?

John
Someone can correct me, but as I recall, when the front calipers changed to the BMW EVO calipers, the rear one was unchanged. I suspect the rear clip was just a running production change after the noise issue became a major problem.

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post #17 of 22 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 1:32 pm
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Yep, rear caliper and pads are the same on all LTs.

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post #18 of 22 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 1:47 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mneblett
Someone can correct me, but as I recall, when the front calipers changed to the BMW EVO calipers, the rear one was unchanged. I suspect the rear clip was just a running production change after the noise issue became a major problem.
By jove, I believe you may be correct there Mark! Just got so used to noticing the "BMW" in place of the "Brembo" on the front calipers, that I was thinking they had changed all three calipers. So it must have been what you said: a production change. Wonder if they really do any good though, since we still hear complaints about the squeaky rear brake syndrome?

John

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post #19 of 22 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 2:01 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaFish
Wonder if they really do any good though, since we still hear complaints about the squeaky rear brake syndrome?
Apparently not -- the noise from my '05 and '06 rears is far worse than either my '00 or '02.

Actooly, ya gots me thinking -- I wonder if the later clip is making the problem worse?? Think I'll yank mine and play around with it to see whether the extra tabs make things better or worse. Results to follow ...

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post #20 of 22 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 2:10 pm
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Quote:
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Someone can correct me, but as I recall, when the front calipers changed to the BMW EVO calipers, the rear one was unchanged. I suspect the rear clip was just a running production change after the noise issue became a major problem.
Can anyone tell if the additional clip holds the pads in (next to the rotor) or keeps them apart (away from the rotor) until the brakes are applied?

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post #21 of 22 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 2:15 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnowell
Can anyone tell if the additional clip holds the pads in (next to the rotor) or keeps them apart (away from the rotor) until the brakes are applied?
Apart from the rotors and up against the pistons.

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post #22 of 22 Old Oct 31st, 2006, 2:15 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnowell
Can anyone tell if the additional clip holds the pads in (next to the rotor) or keeps them apart (away from the rotor) until the brakes are applied?
They are angled in a manner which would press the pads away from the disk, but I doubt they do that -- they get compressed during installation so the majority of the force on the pads is straight down.

My speculation is that they are not there to drive the pads in any particular direction, but instead are intended to suppress pad rattling and/or dampen noise-generating pad vibration.

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