Transmission output shaft seal leak - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 18 Old Sep 14th, 2016, 12:50 pm Thread Starter
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Transmission output shaft seal leak

Took the tupperware off to do general maintenance & put in Spiegler brake lines and while changing tranny oil I noticed that the joint between swingarm and tranny looks a bit oily.

The question is, should I change the seal (this bike is new to me with 38kMiles on it) or just clean up and keep an eye on it?

If I end up changing the seal, how hard is it to get out? I read on it in the tech section and looks like I need to make a tool to put a new one in.

One more; While I have the swingarm off (if I end changing the seal, what else should I do? Drilling the weep hole near the clutch slave cylinder is one, anything else?
Final drive feels tight and there were no metal chunks or flakes in the oil.

Some pics of the "leaky" area (let me know if you can't see the pics):






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post #2 of 18 Old Sep 14th, 2016, 1:50 pm
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

I will have to look at the pictures when I get home tonight but the seal is not all that hard to get out. Using a small drill and going VERY SLOWLY so not to drift into the aluminum facing, then you can use a drywall screw or one on each side and lever the old seal out.

The installation is what usually gets people as there is an oil hole that the lip of the seal rides only a few thousandths away from. Too deep and it leaks like a big dog. Ask me how I know

It is a common leak to find on these bikes as they are getting older. The set depth is only 50 thousandths from the inner facing so having a tool although is not absolutely required, makes this a much higher chance of success and no leaks when done.

The tool does not have to be fancy but it does have to be reasonable accurate. I have no machining capability so I made my tool out of a couple washers. A 7/8 washer and one I can no longer find at Lowes or Home Depot, which was just about perfect because it was 49 thousandths thick so with glue, and a little filing, I had something that accurately represented the end of the fancy machined tool that would fit over the output shaft and use a socket to drive it flat. The seal size is 25X40X6 but you can use a 25X40X7 as I did because the after market was a dual lip seal and the BMW one was not.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


If you haven't checked them yet, make sure the swing arm bearings feel good and are not binding before you reassemble. Be sure to properly phase the u-joints on the drive shaft also.
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2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #3 of 18 Old Sep 14th, 2016, 3:22 pm
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

If you are into preventative maintenance you are 30% into replacing the 19x4mm Oring that causes a lot of heart burn. On the other hand when you do need to change that oring you know how to get part way there! Don't use loctite putting things back together. And do use heat to soften any there on the pivot journal studs and locknuts for them. Here is some reading for you:
GregRS's journey into seal territory - I-BMW.com
It is the whole oring job that does include getting to your transmisson rear. It also has discussion on depth of that seal which is critical as mentioned above.
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post #4 of 18 Old Sep 14th, 2016, 9:56 pm
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

I cannot see the pictures but be aware there is a coat of grease on the rubber gator between the tranny and the swing arm. Best to pull the boot on the rear drive and see if there is oil in there before you tear it apart.
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post #5 of 18 Old Sep 14th, 2016, 10:58 pm
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
I cannot see the pictures but be aware there is a coat of grease on the rubber gator between the tranny and the swing arm. Best to pull the boot on the rear drive and see if there is oil in there before you tear it apart.
I don't get all pictures while at work but I saw the place holders earlier. I don't see anything now, just like you.

Gordon
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1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #6 of 18 Old Sep 15th, 2016, 11:38 am
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

Back at work and I see the place holders again but no pictures are showing up. That is normal for me at work for pictures that are links to another site as I think these are but they didn't show up at home.

There is a drag and drop file upload just below this text box when making posts replys and that is what I use but the file size is limited. I normally right click a pic I want to upload and then edit it in paint. Once loaded, I select resize and another box appears with resize and skew. I click the pixels radio button and then place a value of 1500 in the Horizontal field and let everything else automatically adjust. Then I save it or save as a .jpg file if I don't want to alter the original. Then drag the altered photo to the drop area and let go. It lets you know if the file size is too large but a 1500 X whatever it ends up being is of acceptable size.

The site may not have access to where you linked to the pictures at.
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Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #7 of 18 Old Sep 15th, 2016, 12:46 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

Sorry about the pics not showing, guys. I put them in a shared folder on Google photos here: https://goo.gl/photos/J57cQg2AWPYbvi4W8
Everyone should have access to that folder.

I'll just attach the pics from now on.

Thank you for your comments everyone.
I'll start by pulling the boot to see what's going on in there and if I see any oil leaking from the seal, I'll just pull the swingarm and change the seal and drill the weep hole. May even put in a new clutch slave cylinder.

Attache a pic of the bike as it sits right now so you can see what's already been removed. Planning on putting the rest of the Spieglers in tonight and start bleeding them if I have the time.

Checked the valve lash, everything's at the lower end of the spec, may need to adjust next time.
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post #8 of 18 Old Sep 15th, 2016, 1:16 pm
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaL3_SD View Post
Sorry about the pics not showing, guys. I put them in a shared folder on Google photos here: https://goo.gl/photos/J57cQg2AWPYbvi4W8
Everyone should have access to that folder.

I'll just attach the pics from now on.

Thank you for your comments everyone.
I'll start by pulling the boot to see what's going on in there and if I see any oil leaking from the seal, I'll just pull the swingarm and change the seal and drill the weep hole. May even put in a new clutch slave cylinder.

Attache a pic of the bike as it sits right now so you can see what's already been removed. Planning on putting the rest of the Spieglers in tonight and start bleeding them if I have the time.

Checked the valve lash, everything's at the lower end of the spec, may need to adjust next time.
Yep, I can see that one

By the looks of the rear caliper ( BMW) and no speed sensor on the FD, I am going to say it is an 02 or newer. If you are in that far, replacing the slave is not all that bad an idea.

Voyager managed to pack his new one end baring with grease using the clutch rod end. He would put some grease in the hole and then insert the rod and repeat till it forced grease out the bearing. Wish I had thought of that when I did my clutch.

Another thing you might want to consider being that far in is the seal inside the slave cylinder cavity. It too is pretty critical for placement but the new seal from BMW I hear is resistant to both gear lube and brake fluid. That is another of the places oil can get onto the clutch from.
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2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
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1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #9 of 18 Old Sep 15th, 2016, 3:10 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

^Thanks! The bike is 2006, sorry forgot to mention that earlier.
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post #10 of 18 Old Sep 23rd, 2016, 3:02 pm Thread Starter
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Question Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

Took the FD, swingarm and driveshaft out last night. Have leaky pinion seal, tranny output shaft seal and notchy u-joint in the tranny end of the driveshaft.

The FD feels pretty good otherwise so I ma just put it back on as-is until I find a used one to rebuild. Will definitely change the output shaft seal, maybe the clutch slave cylinder too (ran out of time last night, taking it off today).

The question now is, is there a place that rebuilds driveshafts or is it "easy" to do by yourself? I've done it on cars, not sure how different this one is.

Jay - 2006 BMW K1200LT, 2003 Kawasaki ZRX1200R and 2014 Suzuki Burgman 650 ABS
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post #11 of 18 Old Sep 23rd, 2016, 3:18 pm
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaL3_SD View Post
Took the FD, swingarm and driveshaft out last night. Have leaky pinion seal, tranny output shaft seal and notchy u-joint in the tranny end of the driveshaft.

The FD feels pretty good otherwise so I ma just put it back on as-is until I find a used one to rebuild. Will definitely change the output shaft seal, maybe the clutch slave cylinder too (ran out of time last night, taking it off today).

The question now is, is there a place that rebuilds driveshafts or is it "easy" to do by yourself? I've done it on cars, not sure how different this one is.
It may be less expensive to just buy a drive shaft off Ebay. Not sure about the rebuild as they are pressed together with no clips.

Gordon
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2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #12 of 18 Old Sep 23rd, 2016, 4:23 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
It may be less expensive to just buy a drive shaft off Ebay. Not sure about the rebuild as they are pressed together with no clips.
Yeah I checked it first, seems to cost around $100 on average. Don't wanna risk getting another crappy one though but that may be the only viable option. A new one runs over $1k so that's not an option for a $4k bike

Came across Bruno's site but it looks like he's taking 2016 off due to health issues, bummer. Bruno's Products Page

If anyone knows of another "rebuilder", I'm all ears.

Jay - 2006 BMW K1200LT, 2003 Kawasaki ZRX1200R and 2014 Suzuki Burgman 650 ABS
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post #13 of 18 Old Sep 23rd, 2016, 9:16 pm
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

I read this earlier this afternoon and passed. But I have for years wondered if you took a shaft to a local drive line shop and asked if they were up to a challenge? There are some big ones in Seattle, work on all kinds of related stuff. Some old hand in the shop might like something "different". I'm going to try one this winter with my K bike shaft that has 100,000 miles on it. I have a younger one from ebay to install so the old one is just an experiment.
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post #14 of 18 Old Sep 26th, 2016, 11:50 am Thread Starter
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

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Originally Posted by beech View Post
I read this earlier this afternoon and passed. But I have for years wondered if you took a shaft to a local drive line shop and asked if they were up to a challenge? There are some big ones in Seattle, work on all kinds of related stuff. Some old hand in the shop might like something "different". I'm going to try one this winter with my K bike shaft that has 100,000 miles on it. I have a younger one from ebay to install so the old one is just an experiment.
^Thanks, that's a good idea. Ordered a used from from eBay for whopping $43, hopefully it's at least better than the one I have.

Btw, does anyone know if it's possible to change the pinion seal without taking the whole thing apart? Based on my very limited research it seems that if you take the pinion shaft out, you have to set the pinion/main gear mesh again and I'd rather not do that..

Jay - 2006 BMW K1200LT, 2003 Kawasaki ZRX1200R and 2014 Suzuki Burgman 650 ABS
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post #15 of 18 Old Sep 26th, 2016, 12:51 pm
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

Some people say you can do the seal without re setting the pinion position. But The whole process is such a big one, removal of the pinion nut to get to the seal is not easy. A special holding jig needs to be fabricated. Since you are that deep, new seals and bearings all around are the real option. Or a used but "good" one. Here is some talk about all this that may be helpful:
Starting the O-ring adventure - I-BMW.com
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post #16 of 18 Old Sep 26th, 2016, 4:14 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

Looked into it and yes, seems to be a major job that requires special tools & jig so I'll just let it leak and keep an eye on it for now.

Jay - 2006 BMW K1200LT, 2003 Kawasaki ZRX1200R and 2014 Suzuki Burgman 650 ABS
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post #17 of 18 Old Oct 5th, 2016, 3:23 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

Just an FYI; Bruno is slowly getting back in business so if you need your drive shaft rebuild, go ahead and contact him -> Home

I'm shipping mine tomorrow.

Edit: Yeah and the one I got off eBAy was even notchier (<- proper enklish right there) than the original. I'll ship that one to Bruno too and then sell it on with the new U-Joint.
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Last edited by JaL3_SD; Oct 5th, 2016 at 7:21 pm. Reason: eBay escapades
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post #18 of 18 Old Oct 5th, 2016, 5:58 pm
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Re: Transmission output shaft seal leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaL3_SD View Post
^Thanks, that's a good idea. Ordered a used from from eBay for whopping $43, hopefully it's at least better than the one I have.

Btw, does anyone know if it's possible to change the pinion seal without taking the whole thing apart? Based on my very limited research it seems that if you take the pinion shaft out, you have to set the pinion/main gear mesh again and I'd rather not do that..
local bike shop changed my pinion seal, don't think they changed any thing extra, i took the final drive in with the seal and they fitted it $80.00 labour. hardest part is the special tool for un doing the nut if you are going to do this yourself.
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