tires - yet again - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 39 Old Jul 15th, 2016, 2:31 pm Thread Starter
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tires - yet again

hi guys - is there a alternative to these crappy Metzlers - new tire on the front and okay on the rear - this bugger just about went down on me when i was cornering the new front (600 miles) gave out half way round - bugger just started to slide away and they are darn noisey- the back will not get traction when it's damp out. Has anyone put the PP4 michelins on ???? any recommendation would be appreciated as I ride 2 up with this behemoth. If I put her down or get caught in bad weather with the BOSS on the back - that will be the end of that, real fast

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post #2 of 39 Old Jul 15th, 2016, 3:00 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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Originally Posted by Tricky_dickey View Post
hi guys - is there a alternative to these crappy Metzlers - new tire on the front and okay on the rear - this bugger just about went down on me when i was cornering the new front (600 miles) gave out half way round - bugger just started to slide away and they are darn noisey- the back will not get traction when it's damp out. Has anyone put the PP4 michelins on ???? any recommendation would be appreciated as I ride 2 up with this behemoth. If I put her down or get caught in bad weather with the BOSS on the back - that will be the end of that, real fast

Thanks
Here are a couple threads discussing the limited options for the LT. I suggest you read them before you make any decision on tires. The TL rear requires a 79V rating with reinforced sidewalls. If you are 2up, I would certainly not play with a lesser rated tire.

Metzlers are also called Howlers. yes, they are noisy.


http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...-01-front.html


http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...itable-lt.html
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post #3 of 39 Old Jul 15th, 2016, 3:27 pm
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Question Re: tires - yet again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky_dickey View Post
hi guys - is there a alternative to these crappy Metzlers - new tire on the front and okay on the rear - this bugger just about went down on me when i was cornering the new front (600 miles) gave out half way round - bugger just started to slide away and they are darn noisey- the back will not get traction when it's damp out. Has anyone put the PP4 michelins on ???? any recommendation would be appreciated as I ride 2 up with this behemoth. If I put her down or get caught in bad weather with the BOSS on the back - that will be the end of that, real fast

Thanks
Are you SURE the road surface was w/o crude/sand/etc? I been over 300,000 miles using metz fronts and if it ever slipped on a curve it was the crude on the road and not the fault of the tire. They last 15,000 miles and I take 40 mph curves at 70 and 80 mph. Rears only go from 8,000 to 11,ooo miles. Depends on your right hand.

YES, they are noisey. I just turn up the tunes.

As mentioned before. Make sure you use 58V on the front tire and 79V on the rear when 2up.

Just my opinion as tires are BIG on opinions here.
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Due to heart health, the Dr says not to ride under 40 degree air temp. Ugh! Now it is harder to get my 18000 miles a year in just in the summer. Guess that stopped my 20 degree rides now.
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post #4 of 39 Old Jul 15th, 2016, 4:02 pm Thread Starter
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Re: tires - yet again

dry with wet patches - no crap on the pavement - gave me a bit of a fright as I am still getting use to riding this massive bike
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post #5 of 39 Old Jul 15th, 2016, 4:11 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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Originally Posted by Tricky_dickey View Post
dry with wet patches - no crap on the pavement - gave me a bit of a fright as I am still getting use to riding this massive bike
Sorry I can't help you as I just don't run hard when wet patches are showing up. I always remember that at 60mph a tire isn't on the pavement if the wet spot has any depth to it.

Maybe someone using tires other than Metz will chime in. Lots of good folks on here.


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Bought used K1200LT number 3. This one is green/teal with 31,369(now 7/29/2018 54,143) miles and is an '02. The first 2 bikes made it to near 150,000 miles.
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Due to heart health, the Dr says not to ride under 40 degree air temp. Ugh! Now it is harder to get my 18000 miles a year in just in the summer. Guess that stopped my 20 degree rides now.
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post #6 of 39 Old Jul 15th, 2016, 5:50 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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Originally Posted by vernvernvern View Post
Sorry I can't help you as I just don't run hard when wet patches are showing up. I always remember that at 60mph a tire isn't on the pavement if the wet spot has any depth to it.

Maybe someone using tires other than Metz will chime in. Lots of good folks on here.
I am glad my tires don't know that as I often ride 65+ in heavy rain and my tires stay on the road just fine.


Seriously, a motorcycle tire will withstand quite high speeds given its round profile, even if the tread is nearly gone. Add in decent tread and it would take some really deep water to get the tire completely off the pavement.

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post #7 of 39 Old Jul 15th, 2016, 6:50 pm
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On my LT are dunlop roadsmart tyres, and I must say that I love them. 1200 miles in 3 days at highspeed and lots of cornering and also some in heavy rainy conditions without any problems. Not with the right loadindex, but still capable of doing 300km/h.
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post #8 of 39 Old Jul 15th, 2016, 9:53 pm Thread Starter
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Re: tires - yet again

well what a nightmare trying to find tires
decided i'm going to remove the Metzlers and find something much better
as I have lots of rides I'm not worrying about mileage just safety

seems there's lots out there size wise , but without the proper load rating
will keep digging
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post #9 of 39 Old Jul 15th, 2016, 10:29 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

Bridgestone 79V rear, Metzler 58H front.... case closed (for an '05 - '09).

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post #10 of 39 Old Jul 15th, 2016, 10:57 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

I try to stay away from tire threads mainly because my riding conditions are far superior to all of yours; I have better roads and usually much less traffic until you guys come to visit Iron Horse.
I also change more tires in a month than most of you will change in a decade. "I work on a lot of different people's bikes." I get to see first hand tire wear and rider habits.

I have been punishing the 888 rear and 880 front. And though my LT doesn't corner as well as my 2002 LT did, she still gets a good work out.
I do like (borderline Love) the Dunlop RoadSmart II. I have a set on my VFR800Fi, I don't think it would ever be a proper tire for the heavy LT. IF a VFR shreds the tire, I can only imagine what an LT can do to them. Probably destroy them like the crappy AVON Storm some genius decided to push on to the forum members to try. I did. That was a sh1t tire, gone in 900 miles.

I would like to see a Bridgestone T30 GT in the LT size. That tire would be marvelous.

My next attempt will be the Shinko. I am not a Shinko flag waver, but I do install a lot of them on big Harley's and GoldWings and their riders swear by them and they are getting decent milage.
The Shinko is 79H which covers the LT weight and speed up to 130. Let's face it, there is really no need to have a V rated tire on an LT. The bike can't do 120mph and it will never ever see 149mph.
The Shinko 777 HD at 100.00 is a really good price.
Unfortunately, they do not have a front to match the rear. At least not one which I can find from my supplier.
However, you can't get an 888 for the front of the LT either.

I am feeling that my next tire change would be OK with an 880 up front and a 777 HD on the rear.
At 250.00 for a set of tires, that is a price I can justify. The 350.00 for the Metzelers is just too much money for 4000 miles of enjoyment.

Now, I know some of you want 10,000 to 20,000 miles out of a set of tires. Sure you ride how you want to ride and I will ride my ride.
We can still share a meal at the end of the day when you finally get to the restaurant which we were going to stop at for lunch...
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post #11 of 39 Old Jul 15th, 2016, 11:18 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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Originally Posted by JNW003 View Post
Bridgestone 79V rear, Metzler 58H front.... case closed (for an '05 - '09).
Yep!

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post #12 of 39 Old Jul 16th, 2016, 3:08 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky_dickey View Post
well what a nightmare trying to find tires
decided i'm going to remove the Metzlers and find something much better
as I have lots of rides I'm not worrying about mileage just safety

seems there's lots out there size wise , but without the proper load rating
will keep digging
Most like the Bridgestone/Metzler combo. I went with the Avon Storm 3D XM for the traction. I've been happy with the Avon performance so far, sticks to the road and rides smooth for me. IF I did more highway then I'd look at the combo.
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post #13 of 39 Old Jul 16th, 2016, 8:03 pm Thread Starter
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Re: tires - yet again

how are the Avon"s in the wet??? VS Bridgestones
i live in the pac nor/west wet with scattered periods of wet


i've never like running 2 different tire s and the compounds and flexes are differentbeen pounding the inter-web for stats and tires that i can get in pairs


I sure like the Michelin for the rear but no fronts
i guess i kinda stuck with the Avon or Bridgestones
have supplier looking into the Dunlops
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post #14 of 39 Old Jul 18th, 2016, 10:35 am
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Re: tires - yet again

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Originally Posted by Tricky_dickey View Post
how are the Avon"s in the wet??? VS Bridgestones
i live in the pac nor/west wet with scattered periods of wet


i've never like running 2 different tire s and the compounds and flexes are differentbeen pounding the inter-web for stats and tires that i can get in pairs


I sure like the Michelin for the rear but no fronts
i guess i kinda stuck with the Avon or Bridgestones
have supplier looking into the Dunlops
Keep in mind the rear tire needs to be 79V rated or better due to the weight. That really limits you to the Metzler, Bridgestone, Avon and Shinko for the rear. If memory serves, the Metzler gives the longest mileage, Avon the best traction and Bridgestone is in the middle.
It's a typical Texas summer so we haven't had any rain while I was riding so I can't give you a personal report during heavily wet roads with the Avons. I have ran into some damp roads from a morning sprinkle and had no traction issues at all. I commute in the city with lots of oil build up on the roads and they have handled that very well. From others reports they handle heavy rain well. They are a soft tire so don't expect long life out of them.
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post #15 of 39 Old Jul 18th, 2016, 3:56 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

If you guys are going to give tire advice start using the correct terms...

The BMW LT needs the 79 for the weight.
There is no reason the LT needs the V.
V= 149 mph. There are no old farts on this forum who is ever going to see 149MPH on an LT.
H= 130 mph. This would be a do-able speed for an LT with a strong wind at you back on a very steep downhill running wide open.

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post #16 of 39 Old Jul 18th, 2016, 4:40 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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Originally Posted by MikeERideWNC View Post
If you guys are going to give tire advice start using the correct terms...

The BMW LT needs the 79 for the weight.
There is no reason the LT needs the V.
V= 149 mph. There are no old farts on this forum who is ever going to see 149MPH on an LT.
H= 130 mph. This would be a do-able speed for an LT with a strong wind at you back on a very steep downhill running wide open.
Has BMW ever approved a tire for the LT that had less than a V speed rating?

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post #17 of 39 Old Jul 19th, 2016, 7:06 am
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Re: tires - yet again

BMW won't. They stopped thinking about the LT in 2005 and moved on to the designing the K1600.
Why would they even care? They sell new motorcycles and are not about to put time, money and research into a ten year old relic.
If they did then it would deprive a bunch of curmudgeons on a BMW forum hours and hours of topics.

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post #18 of 39 Old Jul 19th, 2016, 8:04 am
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Re: tires - yet again

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Originally Posted by MikeERideWNC View Post
BMW won't. They stopped thinking about the LT in 2005 and moved on to the designing the K1600.
Why would they even care? They sell new motorcycles and are not about to put time, money and research into a ten year old relic.
If they did then it would deprive a bunch of curmudgeons on a BMW forum hours and hours of topics.

Or it could be that they specified a V rated tire for reasons other than speed. V rated tires can handle higher speed because they develop less heat and/or shed heat better. They also tend to have stronger belts and stiffer sidewalls.

Speed isn't the only reason a given vehicle may have a given tire rating specified. Running a tire with a lower rating than the manufacturer specified is a risky proposition. During my engineering career, I often had a reason to specify parts that seemingly were "over rated" for the application. Often it was because such parts had other desirable or necessary characteristics not understood by the casual observer.

BMW will never tell you this, but I suspect the same here. It could well be that a lower speed rated tire, even with proper load rating, might overheat due to things like nearby catalytic converter, lack of cooling airflow due to all the Tupperware, etc. BMW may have found this during testing and specified tires with greater heat tolerance.

I am speculating here, but it was situations like this where I often had to specify "over rated" parts to ensure system reliability and longevity.
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post #19 of 39 Old Jul 25th, 2016, 4:33 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Or it could be that they specified a V rated tire for reasons other than speed. V rated tires can handle higher speed because they develop less heat and/or shed heat better. They also tend to have stronger belts and stiffer sidewalls.

Speed isn't the only reason a given vehicle may have a given tire rating specified. Running a tire with a lower rating than the manufacturer specified is a risky proposition. During my engineering career, I often had a reason to specify parts that seemingly were "over rated" for the application. Often it was because such parts had other desirable or necessary characteristics not understood by the casual observer.

BMW will never tell you this, but I suspect the same here. It could well be that a lower speed rated tire, even with proper load rating, might overheat due to things like nearby catalytic converter, lack of cooling airflow due to all the Tupperware, etc. BMW may have found this during testing and specified tires with greater heat tolerance.

I am speculating here, but it was situations like this where I often had to specify "over rated" parts to ensure system reliability and longevity.
All valid points on why something is rated a certain way.... but also remember that we live now in a society where CYA (Cover Your Ass) trumps all when it comes to making or selling anything. BMW equipped a V rated tire, I am sure, for exactly the reason you mentioned above. Does that mean that a lower speed rated tire is a bad idea? Not always. I believe it was you (or someone did anyway) that mentioned in my tire thread about the speed rating being a surrogate for heat tolerance, and that can be true, however, in theory anyway, they are rated as 2 separate capabilities. The reality is that tires, again due to liability, are tested WELL beyond the rating they are given. They are then assigned a much lower rating to ensure that there was basically no way that the application where the ratings are specified can cause a tire failure. the 79H rating of the Shinko tire should mean, again, in theory, that the tire can withstand the highest weight capacity of the rating, up to the maximum speed of the rating for a sustained period of time under what would be considered normal use conditions.

All that said, I too suggest looking into the Shinko 777 HD as I am now on rear number 2. I got 9600 out of my first with several thousand still left on the tire but was heading out on another trip that would exceed my expectation of that tire. Given the wear, I would estimate 10-12K no problem with my specific conditions (which are far from ideal) of 115 degree Vegas summer days, with poorly maintained roads, running about 200lbs over recommended payload capacity 2-up and dragging pegs in corners and blazing 85+ down the slab. If you ride primarily solo or lighter than me in any place other than the scorching hot desert with a real heavy wrist, i suspect you can add another 3-4K onto my estimate. not bad for a $100 tire. I tend to beat tires to death pretty quickly.

Front I am still looking for a good option. I would like to stay Bias ply but am considering giving a radial a shot on the front for some testing purposes to see if that will work and what bad traits, if any, the bike may develop. I do understand the construction and physics differences in the tires and why one should not always mix bias/radial tires in that particular configuration, however, given the reinforced construction of the rear and the way the radial front would handle forces loaded to it, it may be just fine. I have heard of a few folks running mix R/B both ways with success, and storied of bad things happening but the majority of those are "well a guy I know" type stories. I am a see for myself kinda guy. That said, a specific combo that works on my bike with my riding style wont always work for everyone else so I wont recommend that per se, but I am going to give it a go and report back I think. I have a few different front take-offs with plenty of life in them to try out of various tread patterns and mfgs.

hopefully I made this as clear as mud for you. lol

- Justin
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post #20 of 39 Old Jul 25th, 2016, 10:45 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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All valid points on why something is rated a certain way.... but also remember that we live now in a society where CYA (Cover Your Ass) trumps all when it comes to making or selling anything. BMW equipped a V rated tire, I am sure, for exactly the reason you mentioned above. Does that mean that a lower speed rated tire is a bad idea? Not always. I believe it was you (or someone did anyway) that mentioned in my tire thread about the speed rating being a surrogate for heat tolerance, and that can be true, however, in theory anyway, they are rated as 2 separate capabilities. The reality is that tires, again due to liability, are tested WELL beyond the rating they are given. They are then assigned a much lower rating to ensure that there was basically no way that the application where the ratings are specified can cause a tire failure. the 79H rating of the Shinko tire should mean, again, in theory, that the tire can withstand the highest weight capacity of the rating, up to the maximum speed of the rating for a sustained period of time under what would be considered normal use conditions.

All that said, I too suggest looking into the Shinko 777 HD as I am now on rear number 2. I got 9600 out of my first with several thousand still left on the tire but was heading out on another trip that would exceed my expectation of that tire. Given the wear, I would estimate 10-12K no problem with my specific conditions (which are far from ideal) of 115 degree Vegas summer days, with poorly maintained roads, running about 200lbs over recommended payload capacity 2-up and dragging pegs in corners and blazing 85+ down the slab. If you ride primarily solo or lighter than me in any place other than the scorching hot desert with a real heavy wrist, i suspect you can add another 3-4K onto my estimate. not bad for a $100 tire. I tend to beat tires to death pretty quickly.

Front I am still looking for a good option. I would like to stay Bias ply but am considering giving a radial a shot on the front for some testing purposes to see if that will work and what bad traits, if any, the bike may develop. I do understand the construction and physics differences in the tires and why one should not always mix bias/radial tires in that particular configuration, however, given the reinforced construction of the rear and the way the radial front would handle forces loaded to it, it may be just fine. I have heard of a few folks running mix R/B both ways with success, and storied of bad things happening but the majority of those are "well a guy I know" type stories. I am a see for myself kinda guy. That said, a specific combo that works on my bike with my riding style wont always work for everyone else so I wont recommend that per se, but I am going to give it a go and report back I think. I have a few different front take-offs with plenty of life in them to try out of various tread patterns and mfgs.

hopefully I made this as clear as mud for you. lol

- Justin
Clear, but clearly wrong. I don't know of any product that can meet all of its specifications simultaneously. And specifications are never independent in either theory or practice. I am most familiar with electrical and structural engineering, not tires, but I was quite sure the same principles apply there. However, to be sure, I did some cursory research and found one tire standard fairly quickly. Take a look and tell me if you think tires are tested simultaneously at maximum load, maximum speed and maximum temperature.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.119

If you want more evidence, look up ASCE 7 and read about load combinations. You will see that no structure is designed to withstand simultaneously the full rated loads for dead, live, wind, snow, ice, earthquake, flood, etc. Various combinations of 2-5 of these are considered at a time, but never are ALL considered at the same time. That just isn't sound engineering as products would cost a fortune it this were the practice.
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post #21 of 39 Old Jul 26th, 2016, 11:24 am Thread Starter
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Re: tires - yet again

just did 2000 miles on the Metz 888 series
these things are just terrible, i think they are belted rather than radials
u can feel the things squirm on the road grooves(from large trucks) and the front one is like a tone generator when ur off center

like some feed back on the Avon's for noise and handling
please and thanks you
not overly concerned about mileage more about safety and performance

thanks Richard
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post #22 of 39 Old Jul 26th, 2016, 1:47 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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Originally Posted by Tricky_dickey View Post
just did 2000 miles on the Metz 888 series
these things are just terrible, i think they are belted rather than radials
u can feel the things squirm on the road grooves(from large trucks) and the front one is like a tone generator when ur off center

like some feed back on the Avon's for noise and handling
please and thanks you
not overly concerned about mileage more about safety and performance

thanks Richard
As I mentioned before I've been happy with the traction of the Avon 3D XM. I haven't noticed any sound from them either upright or off-center. I did notice a squirm or floating feeling on the front tire (40 psi) for the first few hundred miles. Once I had 2-300 miles and bumped the pressure up to 42 psi I haven't noticed it since. I believe Avon had recommended 40 psi front and 44 rear but as always we have to play with it.
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post #23 of 39 Old Jul 26th, 2016, 6:27 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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Originally Posted by Tricky_dickey View Post
just did 2000 miles on the Metz 888 series
these things are just terrible, i think they are belted rather than radials
u can feel the things squirm on the road grooves(from large trucks) and the front one is like a tone generator when ur off center

like some feed back on the Avon's for noise and handling
please and thanks you
not overly concerned about mileage more about safety and performance

thanks Richard
I'm running the Avon storm on the rear, with the newer 3D XM on the front.
I'm pleased with them, but my reasoning for them is exactly what you experienced. The metzlers slipping on wet patches. I have had the rear on for 5,000 miles and still have plenty to go. I have noticed with the 3D XM on the front it doesn't like warm tar snakes when the tire is cold, tar snakes in general were a problem I had with the metz.
I ride my LT daily to work and quite often hit wet patches because of misdirected sprinklers, so safety was why I went with radials.

The caveat that I haven't seen in this thread is that BMW changed the suspension geometry from '05 on, and radials are not recommended. I ride an '02 and the radials have been delightful in comparison to the metz. I have never tried the Bridgestones. Kirk did a video review of the 3D XMs. As the storms are no longer being made, you might want to check that out. I have a new 3D XM rear waiting, but will run the storm until it's done. I hope the XM isn't as bad as some have said, as I really like radials for stick.
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post #24 of 39 Old Jul 27th, 2016, 1:20 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

Glad you're pleased with the new Storms.

I'm at the end of my Storm2's (7k) and getting flat looking, the 2's worked great hauling 2-up loaded across the country high heats and total downpours, as I also threw the 880's in the garbage after 3k miles.

And now I need new radials, sadness! I'm temped to buy another set of Storm2's as there are still in stock discount tire online services that say they still have Storm2's in stock here in the USA, (Tires Unlimited) but gosh they gotta be 4+ years old, hmmm, decisions!


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I'm running the Avon storm on the rear, with the newer 3D XM on the front.
I'm pleased with them, but my reasoning for them is exactly what you experienced. The metzlers slipping on wet patches. I have had the rear on for 5,000 miles and still have plenty to go. I have noticed with the 3D XM on the front it doesn't like warm tar snakes when the tire is cold, tar snakes in general were a problem I had with the metz.
I ride my LT daily to work and quite often hit wet patches because of misdirected sprinklers, so safety was why I went with radials.

The caveat that I haven't seen in this thread is that BMW changed the suspension geometry from '05 on, and radials are not recommended. I ride an '02 and the radials have been delightful in comparison to the metz. I have never tried the Bridgestones. Kirk did a video review of the 3D XMs. As the storms are no longer being made, you might want to check that out. I have a new 3D XM rear waiting, but will run the storm until it's done. I hope the XM isn't as bad as some have said, as I really like radials for stick.


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post #25 of 39 Old Aug 5th, 2016, 10:50 pm Thread Starter
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Re: tires - yet again

thanks All- i received my new Avon's today - they are the 3 x series -
i just don't know how people can ride with the belted tire
oh well we see how long they last and the handling difference
anyone interested I have a front Metz with 1000 miles on it up for grabs

message me 1/2 price of the lowest u can find on the dark web plus shipping

Richard
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post #26 of 39 Old Aug 8th, 2016, 9:20 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

Has anyone experienced a flat on other than a V rated tire.
I have had only one, at speed (over 72), and I was glad for the sidewalls that kept me in control and my wheel off the ground for another 3/4 mile and I was off the Freeway.
I'll take control and staying upright when I need the tire most.

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and no1 can argue!
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post #27 of 39 Old Aug 10th, 2016, 3:37 pm Thread Starter
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Re: tires - yet again

FYI: i replace those crappy Metzler's yesterday with some Avon's even with the wax on them they have more grip. Off for a long ride this friday and keep u up on how they are in the corners and damp -

Thanks again for all ur input
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post #28 of 39 Old Aug 10th, 2016, 3:47 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

Love the Avons! I had a 8,300 mile trip in July with 5200 miles ridden on Pacific Northwest mountain highways. Two thumbs up from me.

Rob, 2000LT
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post #29 of 39 Old Aug 10th, 2016, 4:11 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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Originally Posted by LTExfisher View Post
Has anyone experienced a flat on other than a V rated tire.
I have had only one, at speed (over 72), and I was glad for the sidewalls that kept me in control and my wheel off the ground for another 3/4 mile and I was off the Freeway.
I'll take control and staying upright when I need the tire most.
I just received my BT-20 yesterday and it is hard as a rock. Those reinforced sidewalls are substantial. Date code is good but it is a very stiff tire and I have never done a tire before. Looks easy enough under normal circumstances. All the tire mounting stuff I already have and am going to heat it up so it hopefully will flex enough to get it on the rim without damage. I want to avoid any HS flats if possible but I am with you. I will take the added handling with the REINF sidewalls in that happenstance over something flapping around.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
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post #30 of 39 Old Aug 10th, 2016, 5:53 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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I just received my BT-20 yesterday and it is hard as a rock. Those reinforced sidewalls are substantial. Date code is good but it is a very stiff tire and I have never done a tire before. Looks easy enough under normal circumstances. All the tire mounting stuff I already have and am going to heat it up so it hopefully will flex enough to get it on the rim without damage. I want to avoid any HS flats if possible but I am with you. I will take the added handling with the REINF sidewalls in that happenstance over something flapping around.
I am at a loss as to why every time tires get discussed, the sidewall reinforcement issue get push around as though the Avons aren't. THEY ARE!
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post #31 of 39 Old Aug 10th, 2016, 7:15 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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I am at a loss as to why every time tires get discussed, the sidewall reinforcement issue get push around as though the Avons aren't. THEY ARE!
I saw no reference to Avon sidewalls. I saw a question about speed rating and it appears that the Avon rear lacks the proper speed rating, but since they don't make tires for my 2007 it matters not to me. I will stay with the speed rating BMW originally equipped my LT with along with the reinforced sidewalls. I expect both were specified for a reason. And it is a pain that this leaves me with only Metzeler and Bridgestone as options. Although it appears the Shinko may be appropriately rated...

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post #32 of 39 Old Aug 10th, 2016, 9:53 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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I am at a loss as to why every time tires get discussed, the sidewall reinforcement issue get push around as though the Avons aren't. THEY ARE!
Keven, I personally was referring to my new BT-20 which does have reinforced sidewalls and commenting on how inflexible they are. Don't really care about the Avons so to speak and was not making a comment on them.

I found out just how inflexible they are when I mounted it by myself this evening. OMG, I will never try and do that again without a second pair of hands. I am no weakling but it was all I could do to get that bead around even after warming the tire. I can claim success but it was much harder than I expected. Now on to balancing. I can already see issues with the balancer I got and I need to sort that out before I put any weights on.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #33 of 39 Old Aug 10th, 2016, 10:27 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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Keven, I personally was referring to my new BT-20 which does have reinforced sidewalls and commenting on how inflexible they are. Don't really care about the Avons so to speak and was not making a comment on them.

I found out just how inflexible they are when I mounted it by myself this evening. OMG, I will never try and do that again without a second pair of hands. I am no weakling but it was all I could do to get that bead around even after warming the tire. I can claim success but it was much harder than I expected. Now on to balancing. I can already see issues with the balancer I got and I need to sort that out before I put any weights on.

I mounted several Metzeler tires by hand before deciding it was a major pain. I bought a NoMar a couple years ago. It made a huge difference. I have since mounted several more Metzelers, and a Bridgestone. I found the Bridgestone to mount as easily as the Metzelers, if not a little more easily. Just use the NoMar paste lube, heat the tire in the sun, use the wood blocks to hold bead in rim center per NoMar video, and things go pretty smoothly.

Mounting these by hand with irons is not only a pain, but greatly increases the chance of scratching your rims.

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post #34 of 39 Old Aug 10th, 2016, 10:44 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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I mounted several Metzeler tires by hand before deciding it was a major pain. I bought a NoMar a couple years ago. It made a huge difference. I have since mounted several more Metzelers, and a Bridgestone. I found the Bridgestone to mount as easily as the Metzelers, if not a little more easily. Just use the NoMar paste lube, heat the tire in the sun, use the wood blocks to hold bead in rim center per NoMar video, and things go pretty smoothly.

Mounting these by hand with irons is not only a pain, but greatly increases the chance of scratching your rims.
The spare rim I bought is no great shakes. It looks like it has strap abrasions from the wheels being tied down to something over a long rough haul so I was not really worried about scratching the rim, only possibly damaging the bead seat area. I didn't pay a fortune for it and it runs true so I am not overly worried about its appearance. If vanity overtakes me, I can always pick up a can of spray paint. I used rim protectors in any case and caused no additional damage. If I actually start riding enough to have to change tires more than every couple years, I will certainly invest in something better than just a good set of irons.
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post #35 of 39 Old Aug 11th, 2016, 7:04 am
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Re: tires - yet again

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The spare rim I bought is no great shakes. It looks like it has strap abrasions from the wheels being tied down to something over a long rough haul so I was not really worried about scratching the rim, only possibly damaging the bead seat area. I didn't pay a fortune for it and it runs true so I am not overly worried about its appearance. If vanity overtakes me, I can always pick up a can of spray paint. I used rim protectors in any case and caused no additional damage. If I actually start riding enough to have to change tires more than every couple years, I will certainly invest in something better than just a good set of irons.

I got a good deal on a spare rear also. Kind of wish I had a spare front, but haven't seen those very often. Mine was actually in quite good shape. I think I paid a little over $100 when BBY was asking $240 or so. Mine had some minor marks, but not much worse than my original. It did have lots of wheel weight adhesive residue, but some elbow grease and chemicals removed that, but did dull the finish a little. My wheels are dusty most of the time (dirt road and gepravel driveway) so I am not much bothered by that minor aesthetic issue as the dust covers the dullness well.

Definitely nice having a spare wheel. I can remove a partially worn tire and have a new one for long trips and then swap back to finish off the partially worn tire.

At 57, working on the floor fighting tire irons is not my idea of a fun time anymore! So the pricey NoMar was worth the money for me.

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post #36 of 39 Old Aug 11th, 2016, 8:33 am
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Re: tires - yet again

I wasn't referring to any one particular post or poster. Just pointing out that this does repeatedly come up. If you look through tire discussions over the last few years, there is quite often an assertion that the Avon's lack the sidewall reinforcement.

They are also the correct speed and weight rating.

It sucks that radials are not recommended for '05 and above. I fear lack of proper tire availability will be the final nail in the coffin for LT. 'twill be a sad day indeed.
One of these days I will post a video of my daily ride to work to show why I insist on the stickiest tire I can get. Neither the businesses along my rout nor the city, care to make sure their sprinklers are actually staying on the grass. The last half of my rout has many (very fun) twists and turns wherein one can suddenly hit a spot where the sprinkler is spraying the street. Generally you can tell the sprinklers have run before getting to the corners, but on occasion everything seems dry then wham! Surprise sucker!
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post #37 of 39 Old Aug 11th, 2016, 8:44 am
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Re: tires - yet again

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I wasn't referring to any one particular post or poster. Just pointing out that this does repeatedly come up. If you look through tire discussions over the last few years, there is quite often an assertion that the Avon's lack the sidewall reinforcement.

They are also the correct speed and weight rating.

It sucks that radials are not recommended for '05 and above. I fear lack of proper tire availability will be the final nail in the coffin for LT. 'twill be a sad day indeed.
One of these days I will post a video of my daily ride to work to show why I insist on the stickiest tire I can get. Neither the businesses along my rout nor the city, care to make sure their sprinklers are actually staying on the grass. The last half of my rout has many (very fun) twists and turns wherein one can suddenly hit a spot where the sprinkler is spraying the street. Generally you can tell the sprinklers have run before getting to the corners, but on occasion everything seems dry then wham! Surprise sucker!
Yes, tire availability may be a death knell at some point, but I expect that to be some time well down the road. I suspect LT riders log more miles than most, so even if we are fewer in number I expect we consume a fair number of tires each year. The makers will keep making them as long as they sell enough to warrant a shift or two of production each year. The bigger issue is the price will begin to climb as demand decreases and production runs get shorter and thus more costly per tire.

It is a pain that the later models aren't specified to handle radials. I understand many run them anyway, but after a 32 year engineering career, I know why many of these limitations exist. You might run radials without issue for years, but you also might "explore" the issue that caused BMW to impose this restriction. I don't want to be a test pilot with my wife onboard and stumble onto the regime that caused BMW to not recommend radials on the bikes with the different suspension geometry. I know some believe this is some conspiracy between BMW and the tire makers, but I don't buy it. I believe BMW encountered some dangerous behavior in some set of circumstances that caused them to not continue to use radials on the later models.

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post #38 of 39 Old Aug 17th, 2016, 1:59 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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I got a good deal on a spare rear also. Kind of wish I had a spare front, but haven't seen those very often. Mine was actually in quite good shape. I think I paid a little over $100 when BBY was asking $240 or so. Mine had some minor marks, but not much worse than my original. It did have lots of wheel weight adhesive residue, but some elbow grease and chemicals removed that, but did dull the finish a little. My wheels are dusty most of the time (dirt road and gepravel driveway) so I am not much bothered by that minor aesthetic issue as the dust covers the dullness well.

Definitely nice having a spare wheel. I can remove a partially worn tire and have a new one for long trips and then swap back to finish off the partially worn tire.

At 57, working on the floor fighting tire irons is not my idea of a fun time anymore! So the pricey NoMar was worth the money for me.
I may eventually end up with something like a NoMar but I have to do it by hand at least a few times to really be able to appreciate something that expensive. So far, I don't ride enough to justify it sitting for years unused between tires but I am working on that ( I hope ). As said in another thread, I did find a front ( filthy dirty) for under $100 including rotors so I get to try my hand at removal and installation of an Avon in place of the very smooth Pirelli that came on it.

The rear is easy but the front has a different set of rotors. Would you maintain a separate set of brake pads for each front wheel? Saddleman made mention of rotating his pads inside to out so I wonder how much it would mater as long as they had a reasonable surface.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #39 of 39 Old Aug 17th, 2016, 2:42 pm
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Re: tires - yet again

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I may eventually end up with something like a NoMar but I have to do it by hand at least a few times to really be able to appreciate something that expensive. So far, I don't ride enough to justify it sitting for years unused between tires but I am working on that ( I hope ). As said in another thread, I did find a front ( filthy dirty) for under $100 including rotors so I get to try my hand at removal and installation of an Avon in place of the very smooth Pirelli that came on it.

The rear is easy but the front has a different set of rotors. Would you maintain a separate set of brake pads for each front wheel? Saddleman made mention of rotating his pads inside to out so I wonder how much it would mater as long as they had a reasonable surface.
I probably won't bother with a spare front given the 18+K I get on my front tires. If I did get a spare, I would not worry about the pads. You might lose a little braking capacity as the pads wear to the different rotors, but the LT has do much excess braking that I can't imagine the slight loss mattering.

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