Call me Crazy? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 11 Old Oct 18th, 2006, 11:30 pm Thread Starter
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Call me Crazy?

Ok here is my plan, I have Slave cylinder, Ohlin shocks, and new throttle cables on order. As I will have the LT torn down for all of these R&R I was thinking of changing the rear drive bearing. I have 45K plus on the LT. My thinking about the rear drive bearing is that it would be cheeper in the long run to change it out. A "PM" action. While at the shop today I questioned the service manager about R&R on the bearing my self. He talked to his master/lead mechanic who said it would take him two hrs to do if I brought in the drive unit only. Three hrs if I bring in the LT. One of the employees floating by our conversation stated, "I just finished Motorcycle Mechanics Institute and believe me you really do not want to do it yourself". The cost of the new bearing $145.00. Now, I have a medium amount of experience in dealing with bearing replacement and repacking and I have looked at the Manual photo's and do not see why it is that challenging.

So has anyone out there had experience in changing out he rear bearing themselves or should I leave it to the dealer?

Rob Asay
99 Canyon Red Lt
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post #2 of 11 Old Oct 19th, 2006, 7:16 am
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I have read in the MOA magazine that it isn't that hard. Paul Glaves had a pretty good write up on it that should show anyone how to do it. It sounded like a pretty good idea to me.

Shortly after reading that I read that getting the 17 ball unit isn't a sure thing. Now it sounds like BMW has gone back to a 19 ball set up. I also read that unless a shop has the right tools they won't get the right set up on the new bearing. I figure that it might be hard to do at home then.

With all the different ideas and no big agreement I think I will just wait until the rear drive goes and then have the dealer fix it. It is a bit of a gamble but I have heard of some getting over 100,000 miles on theirs so I will just see how mine does.
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post #3 of 11 Old Oct 19th, 2006, 10:08 am
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Some fail, Some don't

If your rear drive is operating properly, It seems that NOT changing the bearing is the best thing to do.. Especially if you're going to do it yourself...

The problem is setting the clearances that might change when replacing the bearing......

We've now seen quite a few failures of the second bearing because the drive wasn't set up properly...I'd just keep going and check your bearing frequently until it actually fails then I'd worry about getting someone who knows how to "properly" set up the rear drive to rebuild it.....Or just get the dealer to change it out.. I'm not convinced that all dealers can do this job correctly.. Then at least you'd have two years warranty on that part...


As for me, I'm sitting on a "new" spare drive for that day....

John

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post #4 of 11 Old Oct 19th, 2006, 10:29 am
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Cool Three reasons

Quote:
Originally Posted by robasay
..........I was thinking of changing the rear drive bearing. I have 45K plus on the LT.............
Since you asked, my suggestion is do not fix it unless you plan to ride over 100,000 on the same LT. Three reasons.

Tools.

Fit.

Tolerance.

If you are comfortable with managing these 3, have the time, and want to do it, go for it.

My clients are BMW, KTM, and Timken [FYI].

Rob Nelson

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post #5 of 11 Old Oct 19th, 2006, 11:48 am
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Final Drive thoughts

All,

Upon doing an R & R of the FD crown wheel bearing just check the thickness of the new bearing at its race width. (Of the 80mm by 120mm by 18mm) It is the 18mm dimension and do this to at least a thousand of an inch accuracy and compare it to the old bearing. It should be the same and in replacing the existing outter shim (the cover shim) you will be replicating what the oem factory did. In doing so you should not be upsetting the taper bearing preload from what it was set by the factory or an earlier R & R. My recent Crown Bearing R & R the bearings were exactly the same width. My existing old shim was .020" thick ie .050mm and the preload doesn't change. The crown wheel bearing can be thought of as an 18mm thick shim, if that helps to visualize this. If you are thinking of crown wheel "backlash" that is set by changing the "inner shim" on this same axle (the shim nearest the taper roller bearing) You are not involved or are doing that. And since you are doing nothing on the input pinion bearing, gears or housing your not involved with checking "gear tooth patterns". Idle chatter by those who don't "wrench" often puts off so many who would take courage and "do" and "learn". Replies on these queries by BMW mechs often is muddled or not thought out because they are thinking of a removal of a matched set (both gears must be matched) or 1 of the of other 3 bearings or housing etc. All of the work in that previous sentence is a whole nuther ball game!!! You are not doing that. Others, are "expert" but put off those less so seemingly to guard their turf. We can learn from each other and doing so will solve this riddle of the crown wheel bearing failure. Instead of attacking each other's directions, (after all, one doesn't have to follow them at all!) we need to come up with an early warning of "incipient" bearing failure. I mean on the "panel" red warning light. I know the expertise is here on this forum. When you have an FD apart the possibilities exist at least visually. We need to come together and solve it. I look at my K1100LT with virtually the same FD (same bearing) and statistically few failures: I know it is 200 lbs statically lighter, and is restrained by its shock on the FD itself as opposed to on the swing-arm, and lighter unsprung weight and lower gross weight. Somewhere is the problem. And, somewhere lies the solution. and on this forum there are the riders/mechs/engineers who can solve it. The K12LT is vastly superior to the K11LT in riding performance.............. we need to make it vastly superior in reliability too.

Carl

K1200LT w/ KLT s/c
K1100LT w/ ECC
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FD <> 4%
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post #6 of 11 Old Oct 19th, 2006, 6:49 pm
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Exclamation

Have the shop do the swap it's only 3 hours labour and comes with a warranty. If the preload is incorrect at the factory you have a timebomb.

Pete Murray
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post #7 of 11 Old Oct 19th, 2006, 7:22 pm
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Wink

Rob,
Change the oil.
If it has allot of metal let the shop do it for the 3 hours labor. I had to grind down a 3 prong puller just to get the bearing off. If you are not ready to sacrifice a puller to do this, let the dealer do it.
If you do do it your self you will have to make some measurements, 1st the old bearing to the housing,2nd the new bearing. if the new bearing are more than a couple of 10 thousanth's off you ,will need a new shim. DEALER FIX. If not the bearing heated to about 150-200 deg F and the housing in the freezer for about 1-2 hours should do the trick. Mine slipped together without any more help than gravity.
Just my take.
Don
PS if you need help let me know, I love to take a ride.
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post #8 of 11 Old Oct 19th, 2006, 8:44 pm
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Sorry, the crown wheel bearing i.d. is 85mm (not 80)

Carl

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K1100LT w/ ECC
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FD <> 4%
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post #9 of 11 Old Oct 19th, 2006, 8:46 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robasay
Ok here is my plan, I have Slave cylinder, Ohlin shocks, and new throttle cables on order. As I will have the LT torn down for all of these R&R I was thinking of changing the rear drive bearing. I have 45K plus on the LT. My thinking about the rear drive bearing is that it would be cheeper in the long run to change it out. A "PM" action. While at the shop today I questioned the service manager about R&R on the bearing my self. He talked to his master/lead mechanic who said it would take him two hrs to do if I brought in the drive unit only. Three hrs if I bring in the LT. One of the employees floating by our conversation stated, "I just finished Motorcycle Mechanics Institute and believe me you really do not want to do it yourself". The cost of the new bearing $145.00. Now, I have a medium amount of experience in dealing with bearing replacement and repacking and I have looked at the Manual photo's and do not see why it is that challenging.

So has anyone out there had experience in changing out he rear bearing themselves or should I leave it to the dealer?
The challenging part is checking for correct pre-load. It is a hit and miss proposition to just replace the bearing using the same shim without making the measurements, which require some special tooling.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

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post #10 of 11 Old Oct 19th, 2006, 8:51 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourdog
All,

Upon doing an R & R of the FD crown wheel bearing just check the thickness of the new bearing at its race width. (Of the 80mm by 120mm by 18mm) It is the 18mm dimension and do this to at least a thousand of an inch accuracy and compare it to the old bearing. It should be the same and in replacing the existing outter shim (the cover shim) you will be replicating what the oem factory did. ---------------------------o.
Not true. The measurement has to be made to see if there is a difference in loaded offset of the inner race to the outside race. The tolerances for the radial clearance on radial ball bearings is pretty narrow, but the allowed tolerance range for axial clearance is FIVE TIMES the radial. It is not at all out of reason to have up to .005" difference in two basically identical bearings of this size. Also, the offset may be different with the inner race offset one way than if offset the other direction. The measurement should be made! But, without some special tooling, it is not all that easy.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #11 of 11 Old Oct 19th, 2006, 11:27 pm
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David,
Do you mean the inner and outter races are symmetrical but the ball deep groove is shifted axially up to .005" over by the machinist (4 point contact) prior to inserting the balls and ball cage? This would mean a huge change in its self and give the radial bearing a very different preload thickness especially depending which way the bearing is placed. ie lettered side out vs reversed. This being true the radial ball bearing takes on a new meaning for a front and back! Everything we are doing assumes the old and new bearings are symmetrical both radially and axially. It is very difficult to measure this preload with any accuracy plus the difficulty in getting the arithmetically correct shim from BMW! The manual gives a tolerance of fitment of .002" to shy of .004" but this thows a whole new wrinkle into the equation. The resultant fitment "slop" from OEM or Dealer could be mitigated or magnified. The only way to really know is to make the difficult to do accurately (measurement). Thanks for finally getting this across to me!

Carl

K1200LT w/ KLT s/c
K1100LT w/ ECC
KLR-650

N9BMN
FD <> 4%
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