Another Clutch Change - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 28Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 107 Old Jun 22nd, 2016, 11:15 am Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Another Clutch Change

I have put this task off long enough. My 2006 K1200LT with 64,636 miles is needing a new clutch. I have the Clymers and BMW manuals and the parts that I expect to need on hand. (Used the list from Voyager's thread) This post is just to get a thread started and see if I am smart enough to post pictures. I will be doing a little plastic removal, etc. evenings, but plan to get started for real this weekend.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5324.JPG
Views:	130
Size:	580.6 KB
ID:	111041   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5322.JPG
Views:	114
Size:	478.5 KB
ID:	111049  
Patric likes this.
kc5ero is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 107 Old Jun 22nd, 2016, 11:27 am
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
I have put this task off long enough. My 2006 K1200LT with 64,636 miles is needing a new clutch. I have the Clymers and BMW manuals and the parts that I expect to need on hand. (Used the list from Voyager's thread) This post is just to get a thread started and see if I am smart enough to post pictures. I will be doing a little plastic removal, etc. evenings, but plan to get started for real this weekend.
That is a good start Dan, just be aware that as you jack up the back of the bike, you will have to adjust/loosen the front straps carefully as the rear goes up and then tighten again as the back end is lowered. Without any kind of wheel chock/brace up front, make sure the wheel does not slide sideways.

Good luck. We are with you.
Voyager likes this.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #3 of 107 Old Jun 22nd, 2016, 2:48 pm
Senior Member
 
beech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Mount Vernon, WA, USA
Posts: 2,560
Re: Another Clutch Change

You have probably seen this thread but there is a lot of good information in it also. Might as well change that 19x4 oring that leaks on these guys. If you need one made of viton, I'll mail you one for free.
GregRS's journey into seal territory - I-BMW.com
Voyager and bmwcoolk1200 like this.

Beech
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I change your tires $50, you buy them on the web.
K13S, S1000R (gone through a few GS's & RT's)
beech is offline  
 
post #4 of 107 Old Jun 22nd, 2016, 3:51 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by beech View Post
You have probably seen this thread but there is a lot of good information in it also. Might as well change that 19x4 oring that leaks on these guys. If you need one made of viton, I'll mail you one for free.
GregRS's journey into seal territory - I-BMW.com
Beech, Thank you for the link to the additional thread. I will review it this evening. Gordon has graciously included a viton o-ring along with the tools he is loaning me.
bmwcoolk1200 likes this.
kc5ero is offline  
post #5 of 107 Old Jun 22nd, 2016, 6:23 pm
Senior Member
 
Axle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: portland, victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,485
Garage
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
That is a good start Dan, just be aware that as you jack up the back of the bike, you will have to adjust/loosen the front straps carefully as the rear goes up and then tighten again as the back end is lowered. Without any kind of wheel chock/brace up front, make sure the wheel does not slide sideways.

Good luck. We are with you.
Couldn't agree more than this,,, you will more than likely loose the bike off the table without chocking the front wheel.. There is a lot of pushing and pulling to be done, going by the photo it looks like you have the front pulled down really tight which is not good for the front suspension., good luck it is not hard take reference photo's as you go.

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
My Toys
1976 Datsun 260Z
1989 Nissan 300zx TT
Axle is offline  
post #6 of 107 Old Jun 22nd, 2016, 10:50 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

Thank you for the suggestion to improve the security of the bike prior to pulling the transmission. I will head the advice. This evening I removed the plastic and fuel tank and did a quick valve check. Most are at the bottom end of the spec, but within spec. Changes have been less that 0.01mm during the last 22K miles. What is the general consensus on cleaning and reusing the gasket?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5332.JPG
Views:	134
Size:	719.0 KB
ID:	111065   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5330.JPG
Views:	192
Size:	784.3 KB
ID:	111073  
kc5ero is offline  
post #7 of 107 Old Jun 22nd, 2016, 11:59 pm
Senior Member
 
Axle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: portland, victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,485
Garage
Re: Another Clutch Change

no problem using old gasket, clean the silicon off the half moons and re-apply you should be right. Mines been of several times and re-used.
Patric and saddleman like this.

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
My Toys
1976 Datsun 260Z
1989 Nissan 300zx TT
Axle is offline  
post #8 of 107 Old Jun 23rd, 2016, 8:46 am
Senior Member
 
Munmi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Munising, MI, USA
Posts: 677
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axle View Post
... There is a lot of pushing and pulling to be done, going by the photo it looks like you have the front pulled down really tight which is not good for the front suspension..
Should not be an issue...the front suspension is not compressed with this tie-down method, just the wheel.

Scott and Theresa
Munising, MI
2004 K1200LT Black
2014 Kawasaki KLR650

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Munmi is offline  
post #9 of 107 Old Jun 23rd, 2016, 10:25 am
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
Thank you for the suggestion to improve the security of the bike prior to pulling the transmission. I will head the advice. This evening I removed the plastic and fuel tank and did a quick valve check. Most are at the bottom end of the spec, but within spec. Changes have been less that 0.01mm during the last 22K miles. What is the general consensus on cleaning and reusing the gasket?
Have not checked mine yet but as already stated, clean and reuse with new silicone at the appropriate locations until it leaks, then replace.

I am however curious of the box on the left side of your dash. What does that control?

The tool box should be arriving today.

The swing arm pivot pins should unscrew pretty easily. Make sure you clean out the area you can see well so you don't drag any dirt out with the threads. Unless you have had them off before, they should not have any thread locker on them but if they don't want to turn, be sure to use heat in case someone else mistakenly put some on.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #10 of 107 Old Jun 23rd, 2016, 7:21 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

Gordon - Package arrived today. Thank you. The switches in the box on the left side control a transfer fuel pump from an auxiliary fuel tank and PIAA lights. The extra fuel tank is a "tail dragger" tank and the mount slides into a trailer hitch receiver. Feeling kind of tough today so probably not much will be accomplished tonight.
bmwcoolk1200 likes this.
kc5ero is offline  
post #11 of 107 Old Jun 24th, 2016, 4:24 am
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,173
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
I have put this task off long enough. My 2006 K1200LT with 64,636 miles is needing a new clutch. I have the Clymers and BMW manuals and the parts that I expect to need on hand. (Used the list from Voyager's thread) This post is just to get a thread started and see if I am smart enough to post pictures. I will be doing a little plastic removal, etc. evenings, but plan to get started for real this weekend.
Just take your time and think things through. Few things require much force, other than the clutch housing nut, so if you find a need to force something ... you probably are doing it wrong.

My main hang-up was getting the transmission to clear the frame. The keys for me were the 1/4" temporary engine mount bolts and picking up the left side of the engine (cylinder head) as the rotation let the transmission slide easily past the frame when it otherwise was jamming solid. It is all about technique and finesse. Brute force not required.
bmwcoolk1200 likes this.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is offline  
post #12 of 107 Old Jun 24th, 2016, 6:58 pm
Senior Member
 
Axle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: portland, victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,485
Garage
Re: Another Clutch Change

Also don't forget to remove the push rod after you take off the slave cyl I know someone who did that....

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
My Toys
1976 Datsun 260Z
1989 Nissan 300zx TT
Axle is offline  
post #13 of 107 Old Jun 25th, 2016, 2:07 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

Making pretty good progress this morning, buy seem to have hit a snag. I am unable to remove the push rod once I removed the slave cylinder. Also, what does everyone think of the corrosion on the line going to the slave cylinder? As a side, there is clearly a seal leaking, which is likely the cause of my clutch problem.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5364.JPG
Views:	213
Size:	736.1 KB
ID:	111233   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5362.JPG
Views:	261
Size:	696.9 KB
ID:	111241  
kc5ero is offline  
post #14 of 107 Old Jun 25th, 2016, 2:26 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

Forgot to add the picture of my setup. Seems stable, but I haven't started working on transmission removal yet.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5365.JPG
Views:	185
Size:	787.2 KB
ID:	111249  
kc5ero is offline  
post #15 of 107 Old Jun 25th, 2016, 3:29 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
Making pretty good progress this morning, buy seem to have hit a snag. I am unable to remove the push rod once I removed the slave cylinder. Also, what does everyone think of the corrosion on the line going to the slave cylinder? As a side, there is clearly a seal leaking, which is likely the cause of my clutch problem.
Looking good. The pushrod should come out with a little twisting. There isn't anything holding it in but maybe the felt noise insulator.

The leak that I see in the picture seems to be coming from the top of the engine and not from either of the rear seals if you are referring to the oil and dirt on the back side of the transmission.
That could be from the breather tube and blowing back over the engine to the back. That is not going to be a leak that affects the clutch.

I can't see into the slave cavity to see the bottom if there is any oil pooling there. It should be dry so if there is oil in there, either the seal or the slave is leaking.

As for the corrosion on the slave main line, that is as bad as any I have seen. Mine was not that bad. They are expensive to replace so you may want to tape up the end and gently flake some of that off and see if there is significant damage to the actual metal part of the line. I think someone actually used a larger banjo bolt on the slave and it sealed up but where that thread is, I don't remember. They are smaller than the brake lines.

Set up looks good to go. I see a strap holding the front wheel in place so if we just missed that before, that should do the trick especially with the back being on a hoist.

Keep going

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #16 of 107 Old Jun 25th, 2016, 3:55 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

The rear seal in the transmission is clearly leaking. Oil was pooled at both u-joints in the swing arm. I am guessing I will find the engine seal leaking as well. We will see. It looks dry behind the slave cylinder. I added the two extra straps based on feedback here. I honestly don't think the front end can turn the way I originally had it tied down, but better safe than sorry. I am taking a break and will either get back to the push rod this evening or tomorrow morning. I did take a piece of dental floss, put a loop in it and try pulling the push rod out with that. I broke the dental floss so for some reason it is stuck.
kc5ero is offline  
post #17 of 107 Old Jun 25th, 2016, 5:59 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
The rear seal in the transmission is clearly leaking. Oil was pooled at both u-joints in the swing arm. I am guessing I will find the engine seal leaking as well. We will see. It looks dry behind the slave cylinder. I added the two extra straps based on feedback here. I honestly don't think the front end can turn the way I originally had it tied down, but better safe than sorry. I am taking a break and will either get back to the push rod this evening or tomorrow morning. I did take a piece of dental floss, put a loop in it and try pulling the push rod out with that. I broke the dental floss so for some reason it is stuck.
Grab it with a pair of long nose pliers and twist and pull. You won't hurt it. There is no moving bearing surface there.

The chances are good that the seals inside are not in any better shape. Waiting for the next round of pics as you get deeper in.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #18 of 107 Old Jun 26th, 2016, 1:31 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Patric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Zephyrhills, Florida USA
Posts: 1,453
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
unable to remove the push rod once I removed the slave cylinder
I have had that happen,..Of the 4 times I have had my gear box out , it was stuck twice. Both times the gear box had a bad front input bearing.. Was it luck of the draw, or ?

Patric Blackman
2002 K1200LT/Hannigan2+2
2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
AMA Charter Lifemember
37 Year Member of both BMWMOA & BMWRA

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Patric is offline  
post #19 of 107 Old Jun 26th, 2016, 3:07 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

Transmission is on the floor. Eventually I took a long punch and tapped on the push rod. Once it broke loose, it came out easily. Time to start cleaning up parts. Clutch area appears dry, but lots of what I think is "Clutch Dust" in the area. If anyone has a picture of the technique used to pull seals, I would appreciate you sharing. I am confident on how to drill and pull the seals, but have never performed this process so a picture would be nice.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5380.JPG
Views:	110
Size:	783.2 KB
ID:	111297   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5379.JPG
Views:	139
Size:	618.5 KB
ID:	111305   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5378.JPG
Views:	115
Size:	607.7 KB
ID:	111313   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5375.JPG
Views:	147
Size:	748.2 KB
ID:	111321  
kc5ero is offline  
post #20 of 107 Old Jun 26th, 2016, 4:34 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
Transmission is on the floor. Eventually I took a long punch and tapped on the push rod. Once it broke loose, it came out easily. Time to start cleaning up parts. Clutch area appears dry, but lots of what I think is "Clutch Dust" in the area. If anyone has a picture of the technique used to pull seals, I would appreciate you sharing. I am confident on how to drill and pull the seals, but have never performed this process so a picture would be nice.
That is a lot of clutch dust. Wipe a finger in it and see if it has any liquid component. Mine had less dust than yours but it was not entirely dry, it smeared as you rubbed your finger across it.

As for the drilling, I took a small section of copper tubing and cut it up the side and then opened it up to about the diameter of the opening and set it in down upon the seal. Keeping the drill bit as parallel to the side walls and going slowly, if it migrates to the side, the intent is that it will migrate into the copper and not the bore for the seal. You might be better off using very small bit and then a second one once you get the initial hole as a pilot. I don't think the JZ video actually had any footage of the drilling beyond a start and then it went to it being out.

Go slow is the key. Pulls the drill so if it starts to move,you can re-position and re-angle if necessary or move to another spot.

Be careful of how far you screw in the screws so not to damage the bearings behind the seals. You may need to drill 2 holes. I know you know that but saying it anyways.

There is enough dust that the clutch slippage may just be from wear primarily.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #21 of 107 Old Jun 26th, 2016, 5:24 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

Good idea to put something beside the drill bit. I will give that a try and I assumed you had to drill two holes across from each other to pull the seal. Can you do it with just one screw? The clutch dust is dry. I used the air hose and now it is all over the garage. I do have a new main seal and still plan on changing it. Is that a bad plan?
kc5ero is offline  
post #22 of 107 Old Jun 26th, 2016, 6:18 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
Good idea to put something beside the drill bit. I will give that a try and I assumed you had to drill two holes across from each other to pull the seal. Can you do it with just one screw? The clutch dust is dry. I used the air hose and now it is all over the garage. I do have a new main seal and still plan on changing it. Is that a bad plan?
Since you have it, and you also have the professional seal driver for it, I would go ahead and change it.

I did have 2 holes and screws. I used a pair of pliers on the head and something beneath it prying like with a screwdriver. Since I don't have a small slide hammer.

If you can picture grabbing the head of the screw and then rotating the pliers down horizontal and placing something under the pliers so you have basically a pry bar leaver that can clamp onto the screw head like a see saw.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #23 of 107 Old Jun 26th, 2016, 7:23 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

Likely will be tomorrow morning before I start on the seals. Your description is exactly what I planned on doing. I will try to get a picture. Pulled the clutch out and it was not quite to the rivets and I guess I am surprised that there is not more difference between the used clutch (~.190") and the new clutch (~.230) Pictures below.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5387.JPG
Views:	133
Size:	677.7 KB
ID:	111345   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5385.JPG
Views:	116
Size:	669.7 KB
ID:	111353   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5383.JPG
Views:	92
Size:	638.6 KB
ID:	111361  
kc5ero is offline  
post #24 of 107 Old Jun 26th, 2016, 10:05 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
Likely will be tomorrow morning before I start on the seals. Your description is exactly what I planned on doing. I will try to get a picture. Pulled the clutch out and it was not quite to the rivets and I guess I am surprised that there is not more difference between the used clutch (~.190") and the new clutch (~.230) Pictures below.
The new clutch should be about 6mm or 237 thousandths so close enough with whatever you are measuring with. Do you have new plate and cover and spring or are you looking at reusing any of the ones you have?

Would be curious on how much dishing there is on your plates. Voyager had almost nothing and others are 8 to 10 thousandths difference inside to outside.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #25 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 10:55 am Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

I have new plate and spring, but planned on using the same cover. I will see if I have a straight edge the proper length and check for dishing.
bmwcoolk1200 likes this.
kc5ero is offline  
post #26 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 11:01 am
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
I have new plate and spring, but planned on using the same cover. I will see if I have a straight edge the proper length and check for dishing.
The cover looks like it has a few scores in it but at least on the side of the disk you pictured, I didn't see any shiny rivet spots. Hope it is flat enough and cleans up well for reuse.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #27 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 1:03 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

There are a few very small scores, but as you noted, the rivets had not touched the plate or cover. I cleaned it a bit with emery cloth and it looks OK to me. Other thoughts?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5397.JPG
Views:	84
Size:	503.2 KB
ID:	111385   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5395.JPG
Views:	88
Size:	545.7 KB
ID:	111393  
kc5ero is offline  
post #28 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 1:08 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

Seals are changed in the transmission. My removal process is shown in the pictures below. Key is to do your best to pull straight out. I found it easiest to go down with the pry bars. Obviously, I used longer screws on the slave seal. What is the general consensus on drilling a weep hole in the slave cylinder mount. I have seen other threads that did just that.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5403.JPG
Views:	176
Size:	496.8 KB
ID:	111433   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5404.JPG
Views:	100
Size:	679.2 KB
ID:	111441   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5405.JPG
Views:	107
Size:	637.5 KB
ID:	111449   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5408.JPG
Views:	101
Size:	709.1 KB
ID:	111457  
kc5ero is offline  
post #29 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 1:21 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
There are a few very small scores, but as you noted, the rivets had not touched the plate or cover. I cleaned it a bit with emery cloth and it looks OK to me. Other thoughts?
Honestly, it doesn't look all that bad. I can see some clearance on your flat edge on the left and right side in that picture. Looks like it is mostly flat wear and not so much dishing.

How thin feeler gauges do you have and can you slide any of them in? It looks like the straight edge is resting on the machined center as would be expected with wear in the disk area.

My gauges only went down to 8 thousandths and I could not get it under my straight edge so I figure I was at about 4 or 5 and I reused mine and i have no issues as of yet. Yours looks a little better than mine or at least very close. I might try working on it a little more in the blued areas to make sure they are not glazed but in my opinion, that is a serviceable cover. You may get some other opinions as is common and they are always welcomed but I would use that cover especially if you have a new plate for the other side of it.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #30 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 1:30 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
Seals are changed in the transmission. My removal process is shown in the pictures below. Key is to do your best to pull straight out. I found it easiest to go down with the pry bars. Obviously, I used longer screws on the slave seal. What is the general consensus on drilling a weep hole in the slave cylinder mount. I have seen other threads that did just that.

Perfect on the seal removal

Drilling the weep hole is not that difficult. You need to measure inside the bore to just in front of raised area inside where the RED circle is. Then take your measuring device, usually a screw driver and position your drill bit on the outside at that depth and drill straight in in the area indicated with the arrow. Easy when on the bench. Set your drill as long as possible in the chuck so the chuck doesn't impact the case or use a longer drill bit if you have one.

Watch for debris on the inside and take the width of the drill into account when measuring the depth.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Slave weep hole.JPG
Views:	154
Size:	687.9 KB
ID:	111465  

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #31 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 1:37 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

While you have the trans out on the bench, I would like to see how well the washer tool set the input shaft seal since this is its first use and an impression of how well it worked. Did it set the new seal at the same depth as the old one?

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #32 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 4:48 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

Input seal driver worked fine. I forgot to measure the original seal depth, but I put the driver on prior to removing the old seal and everything looked good. I removed the old seal and installed the new, using the washer tool to seat it. It looks perfect to me and measures about .145" from the face to the seal. I have had the transmission sitting input down full of oil for a couple hours and no leaks so I am turning it over to check the output seals while I change the seal in the bike and start reassembly.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5412.JPG
Views:	128
Size:	496.7 KB
ID:	111481   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5413.JPG
Views:	118
Size:	485.9 KB
ID:	111489  
kc5ero is offline  
post #33 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 4:52 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
Input seal driver worked fine. I forgot to measure the original seal depth, but I put the driver on prior to removing the old seal and everything looked good. I removed the old seal and installed the new, using the washer tool to seat it. It looks perfect to me and measures about .145" from the face to the seal. I have had the transmission sitting input down full of oil for a couple hours and no leaks so I am turning it over to check the output seals while I change the seal in the bike and start reassembly.
Be careful of how much lube you put on the clutch splines. If your clutch is not assembled yet, put the lube on and then slide the disk over the splines to collect any excess and wipe it off on the outside and inside edges where it will collect so globs don't fall into the new clutch. Anything that collects there is not useful anyways.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #34 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 5:03 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
Input seal driver worked fine. I forgot to measure the original seal depth, but I put the driver on prior to removing the old seal and everything looked good. I removed the old seal and installed the new, using the washer tool to seat it. It looks perfect to me and measures about .145" from the face to the seal. I have had the transmission sitting input down full of oil for a couple hours and no leaks so I am turning it over to check the output seals while I change the seal in the bike and start reassembly.

I compared your first pic and the latest and it does look just a tad shallower to my calibrated eyeball.

.145" is pretty close to the .149" specified by the tool plus it may put the seal lip on a different place on the shaft than where the old one was riding. It looks good so I guess I am happy with it as long as it doesn't leak on you

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by bmwcoolk1200; Jun 27th, 2016 at 5:12 pm.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #35 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 5:07 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

A reminder to check the tightness of the starter screw before you put the trans back in. It is almost impossible to get to when installed and is the ground point for the load shed relay.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Starter.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	263.6 KB
ID:	111497  

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #36 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 6:09 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

Question - I started assembling and once I had the clutch back torqued I realized I installed the BMW O-Ring instead of one of the Viton O-rings. Should I take it off and change? I will check the starter for tight and will be careful with grease.
kc5ero is offline  
post #37 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 6:14 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

second question - The starter screw you are talking about, I removed and left the starter in the bike. It is easier to remove the starter from the bike andattach it to the transmission for re-install?
kc5ero is offline  
post #38 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 7:13 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
Question - I started assembling and once I had the clutch back torqued I realized I installed the BMW O-Ring instead of one of the Viton O-rings. Should I take it off and change? I will check the starter for tight and will be careful with grease.
The nut is a one time use so unless you want to go buy another nut, I would use the BMW O-ring. It is stretched to provide the proper tightness with the process you went through ( tighten, loosen, tighten and then turn a number of degrees) and it only works once. It is supposed to be updated in composition but we as a group don't have any information on it being Viton. The school of thought is that it is not. It will be fine for a good number of years as long as it was not nicked when installed, it likely will not last as long as the viton would.
Patric likes this.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #39 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 7:15 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
second question - The starter screw you are talking about, I removed and left the starter in the bike. It is easier to remove the starter from the bike andattach it to the transmission for re-install?
I am assuming that you removed the screw while the transmission and engine were tilted down and the screw is readily accessible.

If that is the case, you can do the reverse and just make sure it is tight before you raise the tranny back up. I didn't do it that way so I am making suppositions. Is it easier to do it the other way? I have no idea.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #40 of 107 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 11:23 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

It is not too hard to get to that starter bolt while the motor is lowered. See the picture. I completed bolting up the transmission this evening. Will check the bolts and raise the engine tomorrow morning and then start re-assembling the bike.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5415.JPG
Views:	87
Size:	579.6 KB
ID:	111529   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5416.JPG
Views:	97
Size:	656.5 KB
ID:	111537  
kc5ero is offline  
post #41 of 107 Old Jun 28th, 2016, 6:38 am
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
It is not too hard to get to that starter bolt while the motor is lowered. See the picture. I completed bolting up the transmission this evening. Will check the bolts and raise the engine tomorrow morning and then start re-assembling the bike.
The bolt looks very accessible from that angle. Not so much once the trans is up. Looking good!

Love the dragon fly

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #42 of 107 Old Jun 28th, 2016, 7:28 am
Senior Member
 
Axle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: portland, victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,485
Garage
Re: Another Clutch Change

I put the wires back on the alt etc. while at that stage much easier than when the tranny is raised
sailor likes this.

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



2002 K1200LT
2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
My Toys
1976 Datsun 260Z
1989 Nissan 300zx TT
Axle is offline  
post #43 of 107 Old Jun 28th, 2016, 11:46 am
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
It is not too hard to get to that starter bolt while the motor is lowered. See the picture. I completed bolting up the transmission this evening. Will check the bolts and raise the engine tomorrow morning and then start re-assembling the bike.
Dan, I was looking at the pictures you posted and the pushrod looks like it may be sticking out possibly too far. Is it in all the way in the picture?

Comparing it to others I have seen as well as Voyagers pictured next to yours, it is a concern to me. Does anyone else think I am seeing things or is it too long? Let us know if it is all the way in or not.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Don Pushrod.JPG
Views:	89
Size:	124.6 KB
ID:	111545   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pushrod position.png
Views:	72
Size:	502.1 KB
ID:	111553  

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by bmwcoolk1200; Jun 28th, 2016 at 11:51 am.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #44 of 107 Old Jun 28th, 2016, 12:17 pm
Senior Member
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Montreal ,QC , Canada
Posts: 1,171
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
Dan, I was looking at the pictures you posted and the pushrod looks like it may be sticking out possibly too far. Is it in all the way in the picture?

Comparing it to others I have seen as well as Voyagers pictured next to yours, it is a concern to me. Does anyone else think I am seeing things or is it too long? Let us know if it is all the way in or not.
I also saw his photo in earlier post , but assumed he might not have pushed in fully when picture was taken.
Otherwise, something is not OK - so either:
(1) it is not fully pushed into diaphragm-spring hole
(2) OR ... clutch part assy is not correct
(3) OR ... picture was taken with a very worn out clutch friction plate (less than 4.6 mm)

A new clutch friction plate (6 to 6.1 mm) should have the push-rod stick out approx 16mm (0.63 in) from center shaft in cavity.
I have never measured the same amount with a friction disk to MIN specs (4.6 mm), but my best guess would be the push-rod will stick out about 25mm to 30mm (1 to 1.2 inch).

-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
Think twice before you hit [SUBMIT REPLY] - famous quote by another member:
"The value of this board is not founded on dismissing the ideas of others, but by posting to share our experiences and what we've learned from them."
sailor is offline  
post #45 of 107 Old Jun 28th, 2016, 12:31 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
I also saw his photo in earlier post , but assumed he might not have pushed in fully when picture was taken.
Otherwise, something is not OK - so either:
(1) it is not fully pushed into diaphragm-spring hole
(2) OR ... clutch part assy is not correct
(3) OR ... picture was taken with a very worn out clutch friction plate (less than 4.6 mm)

A new clutch friction plate (6 to 6.1 mm) should have the push-rod stick out approx 16mm (0.63 in) from center shaft in cavity.
I have never measured the same amount with a friction disk to MIN specs (4.6 mm), but my best guess would be the push-rod will stick out about 25mm to 30mm (1 to 1.2 inch).
I gave Dan a call just to double check before he got too far back together in case there was an issue. He has not started work on it today but will double check first thing when he gets to it and alert us on whether it was simply not pushed in all the way or if there is a legitimate concern. He said he had a little trouble getting the new felt into the hole so it may just not be all the way in.

Thanks for looking and for the information John.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #46 of 107 Old Jun 28th, 2016, 12:38 pm
Senior Member
 
jenkinskg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 215
Garage
Re: Another Clutch Change

good reading, good pictures.
Wanted to document my journey, just doing a few hours here and there, also not much light.

My trans is back in, next swing arm, battery box, crossmember , etc etc etc

what a long job
jenkinskg is offline  
post #47 of 107 Old Jun 28th, 2016, 12:43 pm
Senior Member
 
jenkinskg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 215
Garage
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
Dan, I was looking at the pictures you posted and the pushrod looks like it may be sticking out possibly too far. Is it in all the way in the picture?

Comparing it to others I have seen as well as Voyagers pictured next to yours, it is a concern to me. Does anyone else think I am seeing things or is it too long? Let us know if it is all the way in or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
I gave Dan a call just to double check before he got too far back together in case there was an issue. He has not started work on it today but will double check first thing when he gets to it and alert us on whether it was simply not pushed in all the way or if there is a legitimate concern. He said he had a little trouble getting the new felt into the hole so it may just not be all the way in.

Thanks for looking and for the information John.


Clutch may not be centered, or center of diaphram spring not centered.

I used clutch rod and 1/4" socket to center clutch friction disk, made trans slide in nice because it was very centered.

2000 K1200LT & 86 K75 for fun again

Prev rides
1992 BMW K75
1994 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1985 Goldwing
1977 Yamaha RD400
1982 Honda MB5
1979 Yamaha XS 650

if it ain't fun, don't own it
jenkinskg is offline  
post #48 of 107 Old Jun 28th, 2016, 12:59 pm Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 92
Re: Another Clutch Change

Hmmmmm. All I can think is I have the spring reversed. I guess I will find out later this afternoon. I will start pulling it out after lunch. Thanks for the heads up!
kc5ero is offline  
post #49 of 107 Old Jun 28th, 2016, 1:11 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc5ero View Post
Hmmmmm. All I can think is I have the spring reversed. I guess I will find out later this afternoon. I will start pulling it out after lunch. Thanks for the heads up!
I take it you tapped on it and it went no further? Bummer. Sorry I wasn't paying closer attention before you got the thing back up.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
post #50 of 107 Old Jun 28th, 2016, 1:31 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,016
Re: Another Clutch Change

Here is the layout of the clutch for reference. I seem to remember some discussion of one of the books having the picture of the diaphragm spring backwards but I don't remember what that was or even if I am remembering that correctly.

The spacer ring goes into the clutch housing and then the spring goes in dome facing out. Another way of looking at it is the spring is like a dish on top of the clutch plate #4.

Let us know what you find.

Have 2 different views attached.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Clutch layout.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	208.8 KB
ID:	111569   Click image for larger version

Name:	Clutch basket.jpg
Views:	152
Size:	287.1 KB
ID:	111577  

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by bmwcoolk1200; Jun 28th, 2016 at 1:36 pm.
bmwcoolk1200 is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Clutch fluid change - surprise! JayJay RT Series 29 Jul 22nd, 2017 4:38 pm
Clutch Change and Manual Help Alanb K1200LT 2 Mar 13th, 2011 11:57 am
Clutch fluid change xzyfsk K1200LT 18 Jan 26th, 2011 8:39 am
Lost pressure in the clutch system BecketMa K1200LT 14 Oct 10th, 2008 9:45 am
clutch fluid change sheldan2 K1200LT 0 Jun 9th, 2006 9:16 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome