Trouble removing rear engine seal - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 20 Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 7:19 pm Thread Starter
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Trouble removing rear engine seal

I have this nice tool my brother loaned me, but all I seem to be able to do is bend the seal. It hasn't moved a bit! Should I be using a heat gun here? The room is about 50 degrees so the aluminum is going to be tighter than when the motor was built. Please see the photos.
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post #2 of 20 Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 7:51 pm
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

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Originally Posted by CheezNbeer View Post
I have this nice tool my brother loaned me, but all I seem to be able to do is bend the seal. It hasn't moved a bit! Should I be using a heat gun here? The room is about 50 degrees so the aluminum is going to be tighter than when the motor was built. Please see the photos.
It will bend and be destroyed when you take it out. Just try not to gouge the bearing inside. I used a really big screwdriver to get mine out. Took a little force too. It is likely sealed in with something around the outer edge from the factory. It will come out.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #3 of 20 Old Mar 2nd, 2016, 8:13 pm
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

+1 It is a bear to get out but you have what I have used a few times. It's ugly. Especially when it is a new seal you just drove in crooked!

Yours looks like it was glued it. Just hammer away.
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post #4 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2016, 10:44 am
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

+1 for all others comments Do not know the correct word/name for the tool I used in English but closest translation is "slide hammer".

- drill a hole in the original seal
- attach the hammer with a screw to that hole
- there is a sliding weight on the hammer one can use to drive the seal out

Took quite a few serious blows with the weight to get the sucker out! It really was tight!
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Born to be wild so why not

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post #5 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2016, 10:46 am
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

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Originally Posted by C-A-D View Post
+1 for all others comments Do not know the correct word/name for the tool I used in English but closest translation is "slide hammer".

- drill a hole in the original seal
- attach the hammer with a screw to that hole
- there is a sliding weight on the hammer one can use to drive the seal out

Took quite a few serious blows with the weight to get the sucker out! It really was tight!
A common experience with the aluminum factory seal. the replacement is easier all around. Just make sure it is flat.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #6 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2016, 12:04 pm
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

[QUOTE=C-A-D;1501905]+1 for all others comments Do not know the correct word/name for the tool I used in English but closest translation is "slide hammer".

- drill a hole in the original seal
- attach the hammer with a screw to that hole
- there is a sliding weight on the hammer one can use to drive the seal out

Took quite a few serious blows with the weight to get the sucker out! It really was tight![/QUOTE

the tool you're describing is in fact a slide hammer. :-)
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post #7 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2016, 12:11 pm
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

[QUOTE

the tool you're describing is in fact a slide hammer. :-)[/QUOTE]

Sometimes......

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post #8 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2016, 1:04 pm
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by C-A-D View Post
[QUOTE

the tool you're describing is in fact a slide hammer. :-)
Sometimes......[/QUOTE]

Point taken. :-)

Edit:

The tool you're describing is in fact known as a slide hammer in the U.S..
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post #9 of 20 Old Mar 3rd, 2016, 6:43 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

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Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
+1 It is a bear to get out but you have what I have used a few times. It's ugly. Especially when it is a new seal you just drove in crooked!

Yours looks like it was glued it. Just hammer away.
Got it! I asked one of the machine assemblers at work what they used. He grabbed a seal removal tool from his box and we went to the warehouse that I am doing the work on the bike in. He gave it a few goes, didn't budge! Grabbed the propane torch, heated with a low flame for 5 minutes, popped right out! Lots of Lock Tight on it. Here is the tool and it can be had for 10 bucks all over the web.
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post #10 of 20 Old Mar 4th, 2016, 8:56 am
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

I'm at the same place. I used the SLIDE-HAMMER option. I removed the MAIN seal a few days ago. It came out with little fight, I drilled 4 - 1/8" holes prepared for a fight, it came out after 2 wacks... For anyone reading this in the future. Be CAREFUL drilling thru, the main bearing sits behind the seal (but we all know that). There is a small space between the seal and the bearing, I mask taped around the main seal and put paper towels around the open access and exposed portion of the main bearing to catch any drill shards.

Of all the cleaning chemicals available "Gasoline" with a brush and catch pan and paper towels cleaned the intermediate housing right up.

Today I start going in the other direction! Out with the old, In with the new.
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post #11 of 20 Old Mar 4th, 2016, 9:21 am
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

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Originally Posted by mcracer View Post
I'm at the same place. I used the SLIDE-HAMMER option. I removed the MAIN seal a few days ago. It came out with little fight, I drilled 4 - 1/8" holes prepared for a fight, it came out after 2 wacks... For anyone reading this in the future. Be CAREFUL drilling thru, the main bearing sits behind the seal (but we all know that). There is a small space between the seal and the bearing, I mask taped around the main seal and put paper towels around the open access and exposed portion of the main bearing to catch any drill shards.

Of all the cleaning chemicals available "Gasoline" with a brush and catch pan and paper towels cleaned the intermediate housing right up.

Today I start going in the other direction! Out with the old, In with the new.
Congrats on going the other direction. I ordered my rear main seal yesterday so it should be here today. I'd say race ya, but I think we both know that that would not be wise.
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post #12 of 20 Old Mar 4th, 2016, 9:40 am
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcracer View Post
I'm at the same place. I used the SLIDE-HAMMER option. I removed the MAIN seal a few days ago. It came out with little fight, I drilled 4 - 1/8" holes prepared for a fight, it came out after 2 wacks... For anyone reading this in the future. Be CAREFUL drilling thru, the main bearing sits behind the seal (but we all know that). There is a small space between the seal and the bearing, I mask taped around the main seal and put paper towels around the open access and exposed portion of the main bearing to catch any drill shards.

Of all the cleaning chemicals available "Gasoline" with a brush and catch pan and paper towels cleaned the intermediate housing right up.

Today I start going in the other direction! Out with the old, In with the new.
MARK,
While you are there with all clutch parts in your hands, may I ask you to take a measurement:
measure the thickness of the Pressure-plate (from flat surface to the high ridge on opposite side at 4 spots around or more). It should be very close to 10.84 mm (0.4268 inch)

Mine is not apart right now and the most recent measurement we have is from a member in Australia that just received a new one for his K1200RS.

BMW does not publish the Pressure-plate thickness in any repair manual of any K1200RS or K1200LT. Wear is normally minimal and is normally easy to asses by looking at flat surface in contact with friction plate.

HOWEVER, the early K1200RS (1997) had a different pressure plate. BMW has published a Service-Bulletin about different thickness BUT they have never given any exact data. All K1200LT (any year from 1999 introduction) should have the same pressure plate thickness as the change was only for early K1200 engine (K1200RS was available in 1997).

Thanks!
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post #13 of 20 Old Mar 4th, 2016, 10:36 am
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcracer View Post
I'm at the same place. I used the SLIDE-HAMMER option. I removed the MAIN seal a few days ago. It came out with little fight, I drilled 4 - 1/8" holes prepared for a fight, it came out after 2 wacks... For anyone reading this in the future. Be CAREFUL drilling thru, the main bearing sits behind the seal (but we all know that). There is a small space between the seal and the bearing, I mask taped around the main seal and put paper towels around the open access and exposed portion of the main bearing to catch any drill shards.

Of all the cleaning chemicals available "Gasoline" with a brush and catch pan and paper towels cleaned the intermediate housing right up.

Today I start going in the other direction! Out with the old, In with the new.
Looking good Mark. Gas has always been my cleaner of choice.

If you look at Gary's seal close up, it looks like they got carried away with the sealer around the outside edge.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #14 of 20 Old Mar 4th, 2016, 3:04 pm
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
While you are there with all clutch parts in your hands, may I ask you to take a measurement:
measure the thickness of the Pressure-plate (from flat surface to the high ridge on opposite side at 4 spots around or more). It should be very close to 10.84 mm (0.4268 inch)
Glad to do it. (.4240 - .4250) It's hard to see any variance at all "On my dial caliber" but I trust it. Though it is not the .4268 It seems to account for 54K miles of mostly Highway miles the PO put on her.

Just finished replacing all the Transmission Seals. I recommend putting some oil around them before you pull them. That little seal at the Slave Cylinder push-rod had me worried, every hole and screw pulled out "without" the seal. On the last section of seal that would take a screw, it came out using the Slide-Hammer trick. The others seals came out without incident. Slide Hammer with small screws works well. I used the Shop-Vac to keep the area clean of drill shards.

ALSO; Drilled the WEEP holes.

I'm good with a Hammer, Shovel and Paint Brush. This seal replacement was like surgery. But I did get to use my hammer! All is well.
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post #15 of 20 Old Mar 4th, 2016, 3:31 pm
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

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Originally Posted by mcracer View Post
Glad to do it. (.4240 - .4250) It's hard to see any variance at all "On my dial caliber" but I trust it. Though it is not the .4268 It seems to account for 54K miles of mostly Highway miles the PO put on her.

Just finished replacing all the Transmission Seals. I recommend putting some oil around them before you pull them. That little seal at the Slave Cylinder push-rod had me worried, every hole and screw pulled out "without" the seal. On the last section of seal that would take a screw, it came out using the Slide-Hammer trick. The others seals came out without incident. Slide Hammer with small screws works well. I used the Shop-Vac to keep the area clean of drill shards.

ALSO; Drilled the WEEP holes.

I'm good with a Hammer, Shovel and Paint Brush. This seal replacement was like surgery. But I did get to use my hammer! All is well.
Yes, you can do some damage if your drill wanders into the case.

On the measuring, did you measure to the raised machined areas where the spring would ride? I see the tape with your marks in between them, just want to make sure and Sailor will have to confirm what he wants. Also, is this a new or the one you removed you are measuring?

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI – Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT – Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #16 of 20 Old Mar 4th, 2016, 4:15 pm
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

It's the ORIGINAL and it's going back in. I measured from the inside hole outward. The spring that runs around the outside is NOT part of measurement, not sure you could measure it if you wanted too.

No issue on wandering drill bits. Just tight seals, no damage done.
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post #17 of 20 Old Mar 4th, 2016, 4:39 pm
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcracer View Post
Glad to do it. (.4240 - .4250) It's hard to see any variance at all "On my dial caliber" but I trust it. Though it is not the .4268 It seems to account for 54K miles of mostly Highway miles the PO put on her.
...
....
MARK,

I think I was not clear on where to take measurements - this may account for lower values you got.
See the modified picture to follow me: I meant to measure "between flat surface to the TOP of ridges on opposite side" where you see my YELLOW arrows (all around). Probably some linguistic interference as English is not my main language...

These are the spots that touch the diaphragm-spring, hence this thickness has a large impact to the push-rod extension distance out of the slave hole (if the pressure plate was wrong type or wrong thickness).

Thanks!
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post #18 of 20 Old Mar 4th, 2016, 4:57 pm
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

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Originally Posted by sailor View Post
MARK,

I think I was not clear on where to take measurements - this may account for lower values you got.
See the modified picture to follow me: I meant to measure "between flat surface to the TOP of ridges on opposite side" where you see my YELLOW arrows (all around). Probably some linguistic interference as English is not my main language...

These are the spots that touch the diaphragm-spring, hence this thickness has a large impact to the push-rod extension distance out of the slave hole (if the pressure plate was wrong type or wrong thickness).

Thanks!
I did measure it on the contact face's. The tape is just a reference. I hit all the contacts, they all measure the same. .425 inches

Look even closer and you will see some black dots from a SHARPIE for the 4 points on the list.
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post #19 of 20 Old Mar 4th, 2016, 5:39 pm
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

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I did measure it on the contact face's. The tape is just a reference. I hit all the contacts, they all measure the same. .425 inches

Look even closer and you will see some black dots from a SHARPIE for the 4 points on the list.
OK understood. Thanks for clarifications on method.
So that would be roughly a 2 to 3 thousands/inch difference with my friend measurements (for same part number but his was new). Because different tools with medium precision have been used in both cases, until I have accumulated more data, I have to assume this could just be normal measurement error (he was using a caliper, not a micrometer).

Hope our friend GARY (cheezNbeer) will forgive the thread hyjack to gather useful data ;-)
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post #20 of 20 Old Mar 5th, 2016, 5:06 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Trouble removing rear engine seal

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OK understood. Thanks for clarifications on method.
So that would be roughly a 2 to 3 thousands/inch difference with my friend measurements (for same part number but his was new). Because different tools with medium precision have been used in both cases, until I have accumulated more data, I have to assume this could just be normal measurement error (he was using a caliper, not a micrometer).

Hope our friend GARY (cheezNbeer) will forgive the thread hyjack to gather useful data ;-)
No problem with the hyjack since my trouble was solved. In fact I find it all very interesting! Reassembly has begun and I took time to make the guide bar that is shown in Clymer's. I got to borrow the shops new Mac digital torque wrench, wow was that sweet! I does Newton Meters or foot pounds or torque angle at the push of a button. Picture is of the guide bar when I was checking the fit.
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