Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 23Likes
  • 3 Post By Jim_McG
  • 1 Post By bmwcoolk1200
  • 3 Post By want2tour
  • 2 Post By Jim_McG
  • 2 Post By norton
  • 6 Post By bmwcoolk1200
  • 1 Post By ka5ysy
  • 2 Post By ka5ysy
  • 1 Post By bmwcoolk1200
  • 1 Post By Jim_McG
  • 1 Post By Jim_McG
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 25 Old Feb 2nd, 2016, 12:04 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Jim_McG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Edgewood, KY, USA
Posts: 398
Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

So on my way to work this morning I am turning right at a traffic light when the car in front of me suddenly stopped to let an ambulance coming the other way by (no lights on). I didn't have time or space to get the bike upright and handlebars straight before I stopped so down she went. Even though I know better I must have tried to stop it and badly strained my hamstring. So now both the LT and me are on the ground, I get up but can't put any weight on my right leg let alone pick the big girl up. The two EMTs and a couple of other guys came over and picked it up for me. No damage - just the same scrapes as before.

I got back on and rode the rest of the way to work and had to park it on the side stand (a first for me). I am hobbling around and wondering if I can get my bike home.

The only other time something similar happened was when I was taking an MSF class and practicing an e-stop in a curve. The drill is to brake, and just before stopping straighten out and get the bike upright. Easier said than done. That time I just stepped off without hurting myself. Once my strain heals I guess it's time to get out and practice that maneuver some more.

Jim
2003 BMW K1200LT (my favorite 2 wheeled land yacht)
2008 Yamaha FJR1300 (recent addition)
1982 Yamaha Vision (long gone)
Jim_McG is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 Old Feb 2nd, 2016, 12:13 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,965
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_McG View Post
So on my way to work this morning I am turning right at a traffic light when the car in front of me suddenly stopped to let an ambulance coming the other way by (no lights on). I didn't have time or space to get the bike upright and handlebars straight before I stopped so down she went. Even though I know better I must have tried to stop it and badly strained my hamstring. So now both the LT and me are on the ground, I get up but can't put any weight on my right leg let alone pick the big girl up. The two EMTs and a couple of other guys came over and picked it up for me. No damage - just the same scrapes as before.

I got back on and rode the rest of the way to work and had to park it on the side stand (a first for me). I am hobbling around and wondering if I can get my bike home.

The only other time something similar happened was when I was taking an MSF class and practicing an e-stop in a curve. The drill is to brake, and just before stopping straighten out and get the bike upright. Easier said than done. That time I just stepped off without hurting myself. Once my strain heals I guess it's time to get out and practice that maneuver some more.
Sorry she went down on you Jim but glad you have only minor related injuries. I know well that scenario as do most others.

Hope you manage to get the old girl home safely and heal quickly.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is offline  
post #3 of 25 Old Feb 2nd, 2016, 12:26 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Jim_McG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Edgewood, KY, USA
Posts: 398
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
Sorry she went down on you Jim but glad you have only minor related injuries. I know well that scenario as do most others.

Hope you manage to get the old girl home safely and heal quickly.
Thanks - a little ice and Advil and I'll be good as new. I just have to make up a story to tell my wife why I'm gimpy or else she'll want me to get rid of the bike!
ibbones, bmwriderm and johnbaker15 like this.

Jim
2003 BMW K1200LT (my favorite 2 wheeled land yacht)
2008 Yamaha FJR1300 (recent addition)
1982 Yamaha Vision (long gone)
Jim_McG is offline  
 
post #4 of 25 Old Feb 2nd, 2016, 12:33 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,965
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_McG View Post
Thanks - a little ice and Advil and I'll be good as new. I just have to make up a story to tell my wife why I'm gimpy or else she'll want me to get rid of the bike!
Tell her someone left a low file drawer open at work and you caught it rounding a corner on an urgent bathroom run.
Jim_McG likes this.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is offline  
post #5 of 25 Old Feb 2nd, 2016, 3:44 pm
Senior Member
 
want2tour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Sandpoint, ID area
Posts: 275
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Best way to keep the bike is tell her your girlfriend kicked you.....
oh wait, I guess then you and the bike will be homeless....but you'd still have the bike.
I can show you how to properly tie a hammock from the rear wheel to a tree.

2005 KLT Graphite Gray
2003 F650GS Black
*Too slow for fast women
*A little adventure is good for the soul
want2tour is offline  
post #6 of 25 Old Feb 2nd, 2016, 5:50 pm
Senior Member
 
Whiskey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 658
Garage
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Sorry about the down, but I'm glad to hear it was minor. Heal fast.

2000 R1100RT
Whiskey is offline  
post #7 of 25 Old Feb 2nd, 2016, 8:09 pm
Guest
 
11862's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: minnetonka , mn, usa
Posts: 637
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Lessee - You were turning right & locked the front wheel still cramped over right so the bike rolled right. You extended your right leg, over compensated the correction, & the whole mess went down to the left. Yeah I can understand that happening with a bike as heavy as an LT. Hope I never have it happen to me that fast. These things happen.

Good luck repairing yourself!
11862 is offline  
post #8 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2016, 9:13 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Jim_McG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Edgewood, KY, USA
Posts: 398
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by niel_petersen View Post
Lessee - You were turning right & locked the front wheel still cramped over right so the bike rolled right. You extended your right leg, over compensated the correction, & the whole mess went down to the left. Yeah I can understand that happening with a bike as heavy as an LT. Hope I never have it happen to me that fast. These things happen.

Good luck repairing yourself!
No, I was sill in the right turn when I had to suddenly stop. Bike went down to the right after standstill. My mistake was instinctively trying to stop it / ease it down. I never liked the MSF class advise to straighten the bike before you stop in a curve - it can put you in the wrong travel lane. I remember thinking I'll just let it drop in that case. If this bike was 200 lbs. lighter & non-paralever suspension I could have held it & this would have been a non-event.

Quote:
Originally Posted by want2tour View Post
Best way to keep the bike is tell her your girlfriend kicked you.....
oh wait, I guess then you and the bike will be homeless....but you'd still have the bike.
I can show you how to properly tie a hammock from the rear wheel to a tree.
This brought a good laugh and wins as the most creative excuse - luckily I didn't need to use it! I iced down the thigh all afternoon & took some ibuprofen and by the time I saw my wife last night I could mask my limp so she never noticed. Still icing it today and the pain is not anywhere near as sharp. Riding doesn't bother it - only getting on & off gives me a good twinge.
bmwcoolk1200 and Whiskey like this.

Jim
2003 BMW K1200LT (my favorite 2 wheeled land yacht)
2008 Yamaha FJR1300 (recent addition)
1982 Yamaha Vision (long gone)

Last edited by Jim_McG; Feb 3rd, 2016 at 9:22 am.
Jim_McG is offline  
post #9 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2016, 9:57 am
Senior Member
 
norton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Doylestown, Pa, usa
Posts: 787
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Jim hope you heal quickly. The one thing that the LT does better than anything is take a dirt nap at the most inappropriate and embarrassing times. I can't tell you how many times I was caught off guard in similar circumstances and forced to make the same braking error, going slow with the bars turned. Shit just happens and most of the time I could catch it but I have dropped it with the wife on board a couple times in seven years and it wasn't fun, but luckily I suffered only a bruised ego and shes wasn't hurt, she is a trooper and still loves to ride.

Good luck with a speedy recovery and keep on riding
Jim_McG and bmwcoolk1200 like this.

Scott
2007 LT
norton is offline  
post #10 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2016, 10:23 am
Senior Member
 
MikeERideWNC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Murphy, NC, USA
Posts: 793
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Teeter Hangups!

Best purchase you will ever make.
I would still be limping around in pain had I never bought one.

When my riding buddy told me about it, I told him that is the dumbest thing I have ever seen on TV.
After using one for a month, the best investment I have ever made.

Visit
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
_ Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time, but always enough time to do it over?
MikeERideWNC is offline  
post #11 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2016, 10:46 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Jim_McG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Edgewood, KY, USA
Posts: 398
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Teeter Hang-ups? For real? I can see that working for back pain but for a pulled hamstring? I could see getting one for my wife - she goes regularly to a Chiropractor and spinal disc decompression could help her. Then I could give it a whirl for kicks - it looks like it could be good exercise.

What if I get upside down and can't get back up like that "I've fallen and can't get up" ad on TV?

Jim
2003 BMW K1200LT (my favorite 2 wheeled land yacht)
2008 Yamaha FJR1300 (recent addition)
1982 Yamaha Vision (long gone)
Jim_McG is offline  
post #12 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2016, 11:57 am
Guest
 
11862's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: minnetonka , mn, usa
Posts: 637
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_McG View Post
No, I was sill in the right turn when I had to suddenly stop. Bike went down to the right after standstill. My mistake was instinctively trying to stop it / ease it down. I never liked the MSF class advise to straighten the bike before you stop in a curve - it can put you in the wrong travel lane. I remember thinking I'll just let it drop in that case. If this bike was 200 lbs. lighter & non-paralever suspension I could have held it & this would have been a non-event.
.
I agree in a panic stop that centering isn't a very high priority compared to getting the binders on. But not centering does leave things kinda messy when all comes to a halt & may exceed your (our) strength to keep things vertical. I done the same dang thing twice but didn't hurt anything major including the bike.

Just lettergo and step clear,,,,,,,,,,,
11862 is offline  
post #13 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2016, 12:24 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,965
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Since this is a thread about unplanned stops, it seems a good place to post this again so those new LT riders can see what happens if I, i mean you don't follow the simple LT rules of stopping. Head up, bars straight, feet up till you come to a complete stop and then plant your foot/feet.


This will always be at an inopportune moment and or in front of your peers as stated previously.

I will do better this year at the STC.
ibbones, norton, Jim_McG and 3 others like this.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is offline  
post #14 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2016, 1:29 pm
Senior Member
 
MikeERideWNC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Murphy, NC, USA
Posts: 793
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

My last crash completely jacked up my ankle. The doctor was considering cutting.

After a couple of weeks it stretched whatever was wrong in my ankle back into place.

Not to mention the rest of my body felt GREAT!
Ten minutes a day. You will feel much more limber.
If you set up your table properly, all you have to do is put your arms at your sides and you will go horizontal from upside down.
Arms crossed on your chest make you go horizontal from standing, then slowly move your arms over your head.

You will get rid of the chiropractor bill.
The table will pay for itself.

It helps keep you regular, too. -Bonus

Visit
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
_ Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time, but always enough time to do it over?
MikeERideWNC is offline  
post #15 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2016, 2:15 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Jim_McG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Edgewood, KY, USA
Posts: 398
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by niel_petersen View Post
Just lettergo and step clear,,,,,,,,,,,
Yep, I guess that's the moral of the story. Other than better anticipation and keeping more distance to the car in front of me, nothing else could have been done in this case.

And Mike - I will consider a Teeter Hang-up for general purposes. It looks like they carry them at Dick's Sporting Goods?

Jim
2003 BMW K1200LT (my favorite 2 wheeled land yacht)
2008 Yamaha FJR1300 (recent addition)
1982 Yamaha Vision (long gone)
Jim_McG is offline  
post #16 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2016, 4:29 pm
Senior Member
 
MikeERideWNC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Murphy, NC, USA
Posts: 793
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_McG View Post
Yep, I guess that's the moral of the story. Other than better anticipation and keeping more distance to the car in front of me, nothing else could have been done in this case.

And Mike - I will consider a Teeter Hang-up for general purposes. It looks like they carry them at Dick's Sporting Goods?
I am about to buy a new one from Dick's...
The 400.00 one with adjustable lumbar.

My issue is the hour and a half drive to Canton,GA.
I always have other things to do on the weekends, like ride.
It is nice living in the mountains, but I miss civilization.

My original inversion table was a decent Ironman.
I bought it at a dead people's auction. It was a good table and served its purpose.
I gave it away at Christmas knowing I wanted the Teeter.

Check Craigslist if you live near population.
You can find older ones really cheap if you want to try before you buy.
After a few weeks you will be hooked.


Man did this thread get hijacked.

Visit
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
_ Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time, but always enough time to do it over?
MikeERideWNC is offline  
post #17 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2016, 9:23 pm
Senior Member
 
ka5ysy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Prairieville, Louisiana, USA
Posts: 1,277
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_McG View Post
So on my way to work this morning I am turning right at a traffic light when the car in front of me suddenly stopped to let an ambulance coming the other way by (no lights on). I didn't have time or space to get the bike upright and handlebars straight before I stopped so down she went. ...

The only other time something similar happened was when I was taking an MSF class and practicing an e-stop in a curve. The drill is to brake, and just before stopping straighten out and get the bike upright. Easier said than done...
Jim it looks like you had a couple of issues contributing to the drop.

First, you were following too close to the vehicle in front, and had no reactionary gap to allow a proper stop.

Second, you are incorrect on the MSF procedure. What we brief is to quickly get the bike upright, bars square and THEN apply both brakes fully to stop. In the new material the use of trail braking is introduced so people understand that some braking can be done as you get the bike upright. Again, practice in the skill is important, because it takes a find touch to do it properly.

The reason you dropped your bike both on the BRC Range exercise as well as your bike, is that you were applying the front brake in the turn and it levered the bike over hard as it lost speed.

This is the usual reason people drop big bikes maneuvering in parking lots: They touch the front brake with the bars turned at very low speeds with the resulting crash. Once it levers over you cannot stop it in most instances. Stay off the front brake at low speed with the bars turned. Only apply the front with the bars square front tire straight ahead.

FWIW, I was once riding my okd R1200RR around some very tight radius blind curves at about 20-25 mph and maintaining my lane. On on particularly tight 180 degree left turn, as I am looking through the turn and leaned over about 30 degrees, my eyes behold a huge combine with the harvester knives up about chest high aimed at me ! I did the MSF quick stop in curves which I demonstrate regularly and came to a controlled stop, on the asphalt, and stared hard at the idiot sitting in the road on that thing. He said "I guess I need to move off the road huh? "

Emergency skills we teach work when you need them but have to be practiced regularly because there are volatile skills:

1. Quick stops straight ahead.
2. Quick stops in turns.
3. Emergency swerves.

Might I suggest that you sign up for another BRCII where you can ride your bike and see how it reacts, and then the new Advanced course which will show you what the bike can do at some speed.

Hope you heal up quickly !
Jim_McG likes this.

Doug Stracener
2011 RT polar metallic
Attorney,
MSF #127350,
Instructor, Motorcycle Safety Program Louisiana Department of Public Safety
NAUI Scuba Instructor #36288
Divers Alert Network Board member
ka5ysy is offline  
post #18 of 25 Old Feb 3rd, 2016, 10:27 pm
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,965
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ka5ysy View Post
Jim it looks like you had a couple of issues contributing to the drop.

First, you were following too close to the vehicle in front, and had no reactionary gap to allow a proper stop.

Second, you are incorrect on the MSF procedure. What we brief is to quickly get the bike upright, bars square and THEN apply both brakes fully to stop. In the new material the use of trail braking is introduced so people understand that some braking can be done as you get the bike upright. Again, practice in the skill is important, because it takes a find touch to do it properly.

The reason you dropped your bike both on the BRC Range exercise as well as your bike, is that you were applying the front brake in the turn and it levered the bike over hard as it lost speed.

This is the usual reason people drop big bikes maneuvering in parking lots: They touch the front brake with the bars turned at very low speeds with the resulting crash. Once it levers over you cannot stop it in most instances. Stay off the front brake at low speed with the bars turned. Only apply the front with the bars square front tire straight ahead.

FWIW, I was once riding my okd R1200RR around some very tight radius blind curves at about 20-25 mph and maintaining my lane. On on particularly tight 180 degree left turn, as I am looking through the turn and leaned over about 30 degrees, my eyes behold a huge combine with the harvester knives up about chest high aimed at me ! I did the MSF quick stop in curves which I demonstrate regularly and came to a controlled stop, on the asphalt, and stared hard at the idiot sitting in the road on that thing. He said "I guess I need to move off the road huh? "

Emergency skills we teach work when you need them but have to be practiced regularly because there are volatile skills:

1. Quick stops straight ahead.
2. Quick stops in turns.
3. Emergency swerves.

Might I suggest that you sign up for another BRCII where you can ride your bike and see how it reacts, and then the new Advanced course which will show you what the bike can do at some speed.

Hope you heal up quickly !

I would agree that these moves would need to be practiced regularly to maintain competency but the LT was not made to stop in any kind of turn. If you find yourself having to stop with any kind of lean, the chances of you going down are extremely high on an LT, especially with the servo assist brakes.

I have been considering signing up for one of these courses but I am not sure my bike wold survive But seriously, after having dropped mine several times in slow maneuvers, I do practice when i get the chance.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is offline  
post #19 of 25 Old Feb 4th, 2016, 7:17 am
Senior Member
 
ka5ysy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Prairieville, Louisiana, USA
Posts: 1,277
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
I would agree that these moves would need to be practiced regularly to maintain competency but the LT was not made to stop in any kind of turn. If you find yourself having to stop with any kind of lean, the chances of you going down are extremely high on an LT, especially with the servo assist brakes.

I have been considering signing up for one of these courses but I am not sure my bike wold survive But seriously, after having dropped mine several times in slow maneuvers, I do practice when i get the chance.
Actually I have had several LT riders take the BRCII and at least one has been in one of our advanced classes and they had no issues. Agreed that the LT is a big heavy beast, but it can do the maneuvers discussed above. The biggest trick to handling the LT at slow speeds, less than 10 mph or so, is to use the rear brake only unless the bars are square and front tire straight ahead. I road an LT a couple of years ago that was a trade-in at our local dealership, and I most definitely noticed the weight, but it was still manageable. I even took the wife onboard (she loved the rear seating and arm rests!). It was definitely more touchy about low speed maneuvering compared with our RT , but I still did the usual parking lot maneuvers to see how it handled. I still much prefer the RT because I am not a big-cruiser type rider, but much prefer the sport-touring bikes. All said the LT (and the KGT for that matter) are great bikes for touring, but not my kind of ride.
bmwcoolk1200 and Whiskey like this.

Doug Stracener
2011 RT polar metallic
Attorney,
MSF #127350,
Instructor, Motorcycle Safety Program Louisiana Department of Public Safety
NAUI Scuba Instructor #36288
Divers Alert Network Board member
ka5ysy is offline  
post #20 of 25 Old Feb 4th, 2016, 8:01 am
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,965
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ka5ysy View Post
Actually I have had several LT riders take the BRCII and at least one has been in one of our advanced classes and they had no issues. Agreed that the LT is a big heavy beast, but it can do the maneuvers discussed above. The biggest trick to handling the LT at slow speeds, less than 10 mph or so, is to use the rear brake only unless the bars are square and front tire straight ahead. I road an LT a couple of years ago that was a trade-in at our local dealership, and I most definitely noticed the weight, but it was still manageable. I even took the wife onboard (she loved the rear seating and arm rests!). It was definitely more touchy about low speed maneuvering compared with our RT , but I still did the usual parking lot maneuvers to see how it handled. I still much prefer the RT because I am not a big-cruiser type rider, but much prefer the sport-touring bikes. All said the LT (and the KGT for that matter) are great bikes for touring, but not my kind of ride.
I previously had an R1100RT and it was much more forgiving at slow speeds. We all know what not to do and most of the time we are able to navigate just fine and keep the rubber side up. It is those momentary lapses where something unexpected happens and we already have our hand on that front brake and give it a reactionary squeeze where we get into trouble. That is where practice will help. They are amazing bikes above 10mph but care needs to be applied below.

PS. That would be rubber side down as Whisky noted.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by bmwcoolk1200; Feb 4th, 2016 at 9:22 am. Reason: Correction
bmwcoolk1200 is offline  
post #21 of 25 Old Feb 4th, 2016, 9:13 am
Senior Member
 
Whiskey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 658
Garage
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
We all know what not to do and most of the time we are able to navigate just fine and keep the rubber side up.
If you're keeping the rubber side up, you're doing it wrong.

I've never ridden a 1200, but I can do all the same maneuvers on my 1100RT that I used to do on my 800cc cruiser I came from. The principle is the same, despite the size difference. Dragging the rear brake makes a huge difference in control and stability.

That said, I have dumped the RT already and I never did on my 800. I did it standing still in the garage. Because the bike is so much taller it's a lot less unforgiving of you don't have it balanced properly at a stand still. It was a stupid mistake caused by me trying to learn how to use the center stand. I had no stand down and tried to get off of it.

2000 R1100RT
Whiskey is offline  
post #22 of 25 Old Feb 4th, 2016, 9:38 am
Senior Member
 
bmwcoolk1200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,965
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey View Post
If you're keeping the rubber side up, you're doing it wrong.

I've never ridden a 1200, but I can do all the same maneuvers on my 1100RT that I used to do on my 800cc cruiser I came from. The principle is the same, despite the size difference. Dragging the rear brake makes a huge difference in control and stability.

That said, I have dumped the RT already and I never did on my 800. I did it standing still in the garage. Because the bike is so much taller it's a lot less unforgiving of you don't have it balanced properly at a stand still. It was a stupid mistake caused by me trying to learn how to use the center stand. I had no stand down and tried to get off of it.
Thanks, I updated that post. Yeah, rubber side up is not the right way to do it. I bet getting off with no stand down is an action you will not repeat any time soon.

In a panic stop, the rear brakes at least on my LT are just about useless as when the weight shifts forward, the wheel will start to lock up and the ABS does its job giving me what I feel is only 20%. In the video above, that is what was happening. My mistake was to not just ride on by as i realized that I might not be able to stop in time and hit the rocks at the edge of the pull over so I started turning a little to miss those rocks still in a hard panic stop mode, both front and rear engaged, pillion jammed up against me and me up leaning over the tank. You see the result as I was not able to properly plant a foot to keep the rubber side "down". If I find myself in a similar situation, and I have the option, I will just ease up and ride by. I probably could have kept my RT up in a similar situation. If you think about it, both me and my pillion got off with no stand down also
Whiskey likes this.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bmwcoolk1200 is offline  
post #23 of 25 Old Feb 4th, 2016, 9:48 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Jim_McG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Edgewood, KY, USA
Posts: 398
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ka5ysy View Post
Jim it looks like you had a couple of issues contributing to the drop.

First, you were following too close to the vehicle in front, and had no reactionary gap to allow a proper stop.

Second, you are incorrect on the MSF procedure. What we brief is to quickly get the bike upright, bars square and THEN apply both brakes fully to stop. In the new material the use of trail braking is introduced so people understand that some braking can be done as you get the bike upright. Again, practice in the skill is important, because it takes a find touch to do it properly.

The reason you dropped your bike both on the BRC Range exercise as well as your bike, is that you were applying the front brake in the turn and it levered the bike over hard as it lost speed.

This is the usual reason people drop big bikes maneuvering in parking lots: They touch the front brake with the bars turned at very low speeds with the resulting crash. Once it levers over you cannot stop it in most instances. Stay off the front brake at low speed with the bars turned. Only apply the front with the bars square front tire straight ahead.

FWIW, I was once riding my okd R1200RR around some very tight radius blind curves at about 20-25 mph and maintaining my lane. On on particularly tight 180 degree left turn, as I am looking through the turn and leaned over about 30 degrees, my eyes behold a huge combine with the harvester knives up about chest high aimed at me ! I did the MSF quick stop in curves which I demonstrate regularly and came to a controlled stop, on the asphalt, and stared hard at the idiot sitting in the road on that thing. He said "I guess I need to move off the road huh? "

Emergency skills we teach work when you need them but have to be practiced regularly because there are volatile skills:

1. Quick stops straight ahead.
2. Quick stops in turns.
3. Emergency swerves.

Might I suggest that you sign up for another BRCII where you can ride your bike and see how it reacts, and then the new Advanced course which will show you what the bike can do at some speed.

Hope you heal up quickly !
Doug, thanks for your valuable input and I am healing well enough to jump back on the LT but weather currently is not cooperating. The main reason I posted this thread is so maybe someone can learn from my mistake(s). To your points:

First, true - I typically leave sufficient room in front of me, but once committed to a turn I accelerate through. I must have closed the gap too much not leaving enough room to anticipate the unanticipated. Lesson learned.

Second, true again - I need to practice this maneuver more. Tight turns in parking lots I have time to think about what I'm doing and either trail brake or no brake which I am OK with but not comfortable enough to do a 180 within 2 parking spaces. Typically in curves I stay off or only lightly apply brakes. In this case I applied both brakes in the turn - force of (bad) habit grabbing too much front brake. With integrated / linked brakes, trail braking applies the front brake in any case but maybe the bias is still towards the rear. Semi-linked brakes would be better. My issue with getting the bike upright first then hard braking is it can put me in the wrong travel lane. I am fine with emergency straight line braking and swerving maneuvers but there was no room to swerve here.

I took the BRC2 class soon after getting the LT 3-1/2 years ago primarily to get more comfortable with slow speed maneuvers on this big beast. These are great programs and in KY are subsidized by the DMV so cost is minimal. This is the first time needing the e-stop in a turn maneuver in the real world on this heavy bike. My previous bike was only about 450 lbs. & I could get away with bad habits. It had already been on my mind to take a refresher class to work on my skills in any case, and will definitely do so. Probably a good idea to do it every couple of years.
bmwcoolk1200 likes this.

Jim
2003 BMW K1200LT (my favorite 2 wheeled land yacht)
2008 Yamaha FJR1300 (recent addition)
1982 Yamaha Vision (long gone)
Jim_McG is offline  
post #24 of 25 Old Feb 4th, 2016, 10:42 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Jim_McG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Edgewood, KY, USA
Posts: 398
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
I have been considering signing up for one of these courses but I am not sure my bike wold survive But seriously, after having dropped mine several times in slow maneuvers, I do practice when i get the chance.
Your bike will survive - just do it! I thoroughly enjoyed the course. Worst that happens is you drop it but after the first scraped tip-over bar, what's the difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ka5ysy View Post
Actually I have had several LT riders take the BRCII and at least one has been in one of our advanced classes and they had no issues. Agreed that the LT is a big heavy beast, but it can do the maneuvers discussed above. The biggest trick to handling the LT at slow speeds, less than 10 mph or so, is to use the rear brake only unless the bars are square and front tire straight ahead. I road an LT a couple of years ago that was a trade-in at our local dealership, and I most definitely noticed the weight, but it was still manageable. I even took the wife onboard (she loved the rear seating and arm rests!). It was definitely more touchy about low speed maneuvering compared with our RT , but I still did the usual parking lot maneuvers to see how it handled. I still much prefer the RT because I am not a big-cruiser type rider, but much prefer the sport-touring bikes. All said the LT (and the KGT for that matter) are great bikes for touring, but not my kind of ride.
What year LT did you test ride? The steering geometry changed in 2005 for easier low speed maneuvering but mine is the 1st. Gen. I wonder if the change was at the expense of stability at speed.

When I bought my LT it was with the intention of 2-up riding but so far my wife hasn't played along. So almost all of my riding is solo and not even long distance touring so maybe the LT is not ideal for me but I still like the smooth engine & comfort, it's what I have and I'll just have to deal with its low speed quirkiness & top-heaviness. For the most part it hasn't been an issue.

Jim
2003 BMW K1200LT (my favorite 2 wheeled land yacht)
2008 Yamaha FJR1300 (recent addition)
1982 Yamaha Vision (long gone)
Jim_McG is offline  
post #25 of 25 Old Feb 4th, 2016, 11:06 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Jim_McG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Edgewood, KY, USA
Posts: 398
Re: Unplanned stop in a curve - guess what happened next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeERideWNC View Post
It is nice living in the mountains, but I miss civilization.

My original inversion table was a decent Ironman.

Man did this thread get hijacked.
Mike, no worries about the hijack - I am thoroughly amused.

The way you like to hang upside down and are in the NC mountains I thought you'd be living in Bat Cave near Chimney Rock!

Also, do you hang your TV upside down on the wall?
bmwcoolk1200 likes this.

Jim
2003 BMW K1200LT (my favorite 2 wheeled land yacht)
2008 Yamaha FJR1300 (recent addition)
1982 Yamaha Vision (long gone)
Jim_McG is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Packing Heat okiebandit1 Bike Talk 314 Jul 21st, 2013 11:52 pm
stop sign?? motorman587 Bike Talk 14 Jun 23rd, 2013 9:34 am
I guess its time to stop riding in Colorado RonKMiller Bike Talk 19 Nov 7th, 2008 11:44 am
Our Curve Cowboy Experience 2007 gisman Ride Tales 5 Apr 16th, 2008 5:10 pm
The story of buying my LT (Really REALLY long...) bmwjason Ride Tales 0 Jan 6th, 2006 11:09 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome