Help 07 k1200lt no start - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 12:11 pm Thread Starter
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Help 07 k1200lt no start

Hi I recently put a new battery on the bike and started right away. the bike has been sitting for about a month before I put the new battery. I took it for a ride and just around the corner from the house stalled, I try to start it back and it cranked a couple times and after the second try it stopped cranking. I jumped power from the battery to the starter junction under the seat and it cranks strong but it won`t run. I can hear the fuel pump running if I trigger the run switch on and off but I don`t know if there is any other thing I'm missing I can do before I take it to the dealer. Also checked both fuse boxes under seat, I don't see a starter relay and looks like the starter wire goes to a big aluminum box labeled BMW and DENSO, that I don`t want to mess with because it looks expensive, I did make sure that it is getting power from the battery. but I`m wondering if some of the criteria from some sensor needs to be met. Your ideas are very appreciated. By the way its a 07 with only 12k miles. Ricky.

Last edited by rickybusa; Jan 25th, 2016 at 12:25 pm.
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post #2 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 12:23 pm
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickybusa View Post
Hi I recently put a new battery on the bike and started right away. the bike has been sitting for about a month before I put the new battery. I took it for a ride and just around the corner from the house stalled, I try to start it back and it cranked a couple times and after the second try it stopped cranking. I jumped power from the battery to the starter junction under the seat and it cranks strong but it won`t run. I can hear the fuel pump running if I trigger the run switch on and off but I don`t know if there is any other thing I'm missing I can do before I take it to the dealer. Your ideas are very appreciated. By the way its a 07 with only 12k miles. Ricky.
Welcome Ricky, I am wondering about the state or your new battery seeing it cranked a couple times, then stopped cranking.

That being said, take a look inside your fuel tank and when you cycle the kill switch and hear the pump run, see if you see fuel swirling. If so, it is possible that you split the rubber lines inside the tank and even though the pump runs, you have no fuel pressure at the injectors.

Anything beyond that will take some deeper diagnostics but it is a start.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #3 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 12:36 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

You are right about that I opened the fuel cap and after switching the kill switch the fuel shot inside like crazy I will take it apart and fix that meanwhile lets do some thinking about the no crank deal. Remember that if I jump the starter it will crank very strong. Thanks a lot for your input there is a lot of experience and wisdom in this site. Thank you very much
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post #4 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 12:45 pm
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

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You are right about that I opened the fuel cap and after switching the kill switch the fuel shot inside like crazy I will take it apart and fix that meanwhile lets do some thinking about the no crank deal. Remember that if I jump the starter it will crank very strong. Thanks a lot for your input there is a lot of experience and wisdom in this site. Thank you very much
If you don't use BMW parts, make sure that you get submersible fuel line and the clamps must be good and tight or they can pop off. I believe Lowes sells those crimp type single use clamps and the plyers. They are in plumbing for PEX type water lines, or you can put some good screw type inside.

Good luck.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #5 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 12:49 pm
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

About the battery, check the voltage with a volt meter for a start and see if it is low. It could have gone bad or at the very least, be in a low state of charge. Take it with you to the auto parts store and get it load tested if the voltage is good. I suspect it is bad or very low if you can jump it and get it to crank.

Asking the group now. Does the 07 have a low voltage cut out to keep from fusing the starter relay?

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #6 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 1:06 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

Fuel line repaired, (I own a auto repair facility) I jumped the starter and Bike runs perfect. I will check the starter switch to begin with. I don`t think is the battery because otherwise it would not crank if I jump it. Thanks a lot for your help if any ideas about the no crank issue I would appreciate it very much. I will keep posting as I get some progress with the no crank diagnosis. Once again thank you very much..
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post #7 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 1:16 pm
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

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About the battery, check the voltage with a volt meter for a start and see if it is low. It could have gone bad or at the very least, be in a low state of charge. Take it with you to the auto parts store and get it load tested if the voltage is good. I suspect it is bad or very low if you can jump it and get it to crank.

Asking the group now. Does the 07 have a low voltage cut out to keep from fusing the starter relay?
To answer your Question:
According to a Service-Bulletin published in August-2001, ALL K1200LT starting with VIN ZD77402 or later, have the new so-called "voltage sensing" stater relay. This VIN would correspond roughly into JULY-2001 and later production for USA market.

Although not specified in same Service-Bulletin, my best guess is that it would correspond with intro of other changes in 2001 (for Europe) and 2002 models in USA when the IABS servos was introduced. it is common for BMW to do many of these changes / improvements together when a re-design or re-tooling of the assembly line is required.

Other earlier K1200LT (1998 to early 2001) may also have this blue colored starter relay if the retrofit kit was installed later (by them or the dealer).

Behavior for newer Relay is to just do nothing (not even a faint "click") when the voltage is below a certain threshold - hence you may think you have left the Kill switch in wrong position. Exact "low threshold" was never published by BMW, but some tests done by many owners seems to indicate a value between 11.2 and 11.8 volts. I have tried at 11.9 volts (static value after ignition ON) and the relay would trigger normally.

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K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
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post #8 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 1:18 pm
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

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Originally Posted by rickybusa View Post
Fuel line repaired, (I own a auto repair facility) I jumped the starter and Bike runs perfect. I will check the starter switch to begin with. I don`t think is the battery because otherwise it would not crank if I jump it. Thanks a lot for your help if any ideas about the no crank issue I would appreciate it very much. I will keep posting as I get some progress with the no crank diagnosis. Once again thank you very much..
You are welcome. Glad that part was an easy diagnosis/fix. I would still check and test the battery before anything else and then when it is running, make sure that the alternator is charging. Owning an auto repair facility, this should be easy stuff for you.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #9 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 1:21 pm
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

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Originally Posted by sailor View Post
To answer your Question:
According to a Service-Bulletin published in August-2001, ALL K1200LT starting with VIN ZD77402 or later, have the new so-called "voltage sensing" stater relay. This VIN would correspond roughly into JULY-2001 and later production for USA market.

Although not specified in same Service-Bulletin, my best guess is that it would correspond with intro of other changes in 2001 (for Europe) and 2002 models in USA when the IABS servos was introduced. it is common for BMW to do many of these changes / improvements together when a re-design or re-tooling of the assembly line is required.

Other earlier K1200LT (1998 to early 2001) may also have this blue colored starter relay if the retrofit kit was installed later (by them or the dealer).

Behavior for newer Relay is to just do nothing (not even a faint "click") when the voltage is below a certain threshold - hence you may think you have left the Kill switch in wrong position. Exact "low threshold" was never published by BMW, but some tests done by many owners seems to indicate a value between 11.2 and 11.8 volts. I have tried at 11.9 volts (static value after ignition ON) and the relay would trigger normally.
Thanks Sailor, I suspected that would be the case. I think Rick has a battery issue, either low state of charge or has gone bad.

I think he just set the world record for fixing the rubber lines inside a LT tank though

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #10 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 2:38 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

I know. I did it right thru the fuel level sending unit port, the elbow hose was right there towards the top of the fuel tank on the right side. With the battery, I still think we have another issue because if I jump from the battery positive terminal to the starter it starts right away and it cranks very fast and strong. I'm wondering if the reverse control unit is bad since the starter wire comes from there and there is power to that unit from the start switch.

Last edited by rickybusa; Jan 25th, 2016 at 3:45 pm.
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post #11 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 6:12 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

DOES ANYONE KNOWS WHERE THE STARTER RELAY IS ON A 07 YEAR MODEL? IF IT HAS ONE THAT HAS TO BE THE PROBLEM I THINK
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post #12 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 6:39 pm
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

Not necessarily. Ooops I just re read your post. If you are making a connection on the bike from the + terminal and the starter tie point then there is something amiss with your relay. You may have missed the red wire that feeds the relay on the + terminal when you hooked the battery back up (easy to do). I thought you were using a jumper battery. So disregard from here to the end of this paragraph. If you are jumping it and it starts then the starter relay is fine. The reverser feeds the starter motor for reverse operation that is why you see a line from it to the starter tie point. There are two tie points behind the battery one is a ground tie point and the other is the starter tie point.

There are three big (10mm) black with yellow stripe wires from the reverser. One has a brown sleeve (ground tie point) Black sleeve (starter tie point) and one with a red sleeve (battery +). The out put of the starter relay also goes to the starter tie point, and of course, the wire to the starter.

The starter relay is inside the big electrical box under the fuel tank and it has a voltage sensor that will not engage the starter if the battery voltage is below about 11.3 volts. Usually these do not fail at least I have not seen one in the last 12 years here.

The pic is where the updated relay (blue) is on the older models.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #13 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 6:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

Thanks for the info. I guess I have to pull the gas tank out? I hear a click under the gas tank area every time I push the start button but no power at the starter tie point behind the battery. I'm almost certain that starter relay is bad. Thanks again for the info. I will post after I find out.
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post #14 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 7:10 pm
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

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Originally Posted by rickybusa View Post
Thanks for the info. I guess I have to pull the gas tank out? I hear a click under the gas tank area every time I push the start button but no power at the starter tie point behind the battery. I'm almost certain that starter relay is bad. Thanks again for the info. I will post after I find out.
Yep, I am with John. I thought you were jumping from another battery and not across battery to starter. Surprised you were able to replace the hoses inside the tank through the sensor tube opening but i have never tried it.

You will get this sorted out pretty quickly.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #15 of 27 Old Jan 25th, 2016, 8:09 pm Thread Starter
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Talking Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

Thanks a lot for all the help guys. I will try to find that starter relay tomorrow (if I have time). I spent a lot of time on the bike today and neglected the shop for most of the day trying to figure out this whole thing.
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post #16 of 27 Old Jan 26th, 2016, 9:01 am Thread Starter
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Got it! After removing about 25,000 screws and zip ties (at least it feels like) found the relay in the box under the gas tank. Taped on it with the screwdriver handle and started cranking right away. Of course my local dealership here in tampa don't stock it so I ordered. $110.00 plus (ouch!!! ) but at least the headache is gone. Thank you all for the help.
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post #17 of 27 Old Jan 26th, 2016, 9:02 am Thread Starter
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What a mess!!! All for a relay!!!
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post #18 of 27 Old Jan 26th, 2016, 9:39 am
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

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What a mess!!! All for a relay!!!
Well, it wasn't just a relay. You had 2 issues crop up at almost the exact same time. The fuel line split and your stater relay went bad.

While you have the tank off, I would give the air filter a check seeing you have to remove it and those 25000 screws to get at it.

If you don't know where that is yet, it is inside the air box. Remove the screws on the square cover on top of the air box and pull out the filter and check it. Mine is a re-usable K&N but yours will probably be paper. Only pic I have of the air filter but it is sitting on top of the cover for it beneath that blue rag.
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Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #19 of 27 Old Jan 26th, 2016, 10:12 am Thread Starter
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

Will do. K&N air filter on the way thank you.
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post #20 of 27 Old Jan 26th, 2016, 4:38 pm
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

I started out with a K&N but ended up tossing it out last summer - still use them in my cars though...

Dave Beck
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post #21 of 27 Old Jan 26th, 2016, 7:24 pm
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

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Will do. K&N air filter on the way thank you.
Not a big fan of K&N especially on the LT. Too much work to get to it then you have to clean it and re-oil it. I would just as soon throw a new paper filter and protect that NacaSil coating on the cylinder walls. K&N is great for race engines.

Glad you found that the relay was bad. That is a first for the newer style relay, but then they ALL have contacts that can go bad.
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2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #22 of 27 Old Jan 26th, 2016, 8:22 pm
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

Uh-oh, this thread just turned into the first air filter discussion of the winter...now, where's my popcorn and coke...
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post #23 of 27 Old Jan 26th, 2016, 9:47 pm
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

I have a K&N because it is what came with the bike. I was simply mentioning that fact because it was in the pic I attached and his would look different. I have heard both sides and haven't made up my mind if I will switch back to paper next time i have the tank off. My sensor strip is not working properly but I don't have to pull the tank to examine that. It was cleaned and oiled less than 1k ago so I have some distance before it needs servicing.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #24 of 27 Old Jan 27th, 2016, 7:41 am
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

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Not a big fan of K&N especially on the LT. Too much work to get to it then you have to clean it and re-oil it. I would just as soon throw a new paper filter and protect that NacaSil coating on the cylinder walls. K&N is great for race engines.

Glad you found that the relay was bad. That is a first for the newer style relay, but then they ALL have contacts that can go bad.
JOHN,

About the RELAY: in 12 years on the K1200RS forum, I have seen only one of the newer type starter-relay fail. Based on some test, it apparently failed within the circuitry that does the voltage measurements, hence it would not trigger anymore. We do not have the full story so it may have been caused by a mis-step of previous owner (over-voltage trying to charge or boost the battery or something else....)

About the K&N filters: I fully agree with you - for regular street motorcycles usage, the high surface/density paper type filter we have on the K1200 from factory is far superior. If cleaned at roughly 10,000 miles intervals (tapping and using delicate vacuum cleaner) they can last another 6 to 10K miles.

The K&N "mania" is good for racing, enduro or motocross bike where you can and will clean the filter after every race. In addition, with these "racing" engines, you do not care if a bit of dust gets in the engine as they will be rebuild more often.
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K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
Think twice before you hit [SUBMIT REPLY] - famous quote by another member:
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Last edited by sailor; Jan 27th, 2016 at 7:49 am.
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post #25 of 27 Old Jan 28th, 2016, 6:56 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

I do remember giving the bike a boost before I got the new battery. Perhaps I messed it up, the thing is that after surgery to put screws in both of my wrists due to wear and tear (I'm a mechanic) I have quite a issue riding it (remember that bike is about 837 lbs with full tank not to mention the wife unit in the back (no I will not put her weight in a forum hahaha) and not to mention I'm 5 feet 8 inches tall and I weight 160 lbs that's giving me reasons to think about getting rid of the bike sometimes but every time I ride it it feels soooooo dammmmmm goooood. By the way the relay has not arrived yet and I forgot where all those screws go.
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post #26 of 27 Old Jan 29th, 2016, 6:57 pm
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

Easy gauge for the screws: Sort them by length - Long , Medium and Short. If it goes into a well nut use a long one; if it goes through two pieces of plastic use a medium one, single plastic to a clip nut or tapped hole you can use a short one.

The EXCEPTION is on the tongue of the stingray where it goes over the latch for the oddiments box, left side - even with the latch, had better be a VERY short one (10 mm length) or it will jam up the central locking actuator. Also from the factory the black tip over covers had very short screws while the chrome tip over trim had 4 mm allens with a plastic washer. This is for the 05 and up.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #27 of 27 Old Jan 29th, 2016, 10:57 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Help 07 k1200lt no start

Thanks a lot jzeiler I'll keep it in mind once I get the relay.
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