What Clutch to get - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 110 Old Dec 25th, 2015, 1:48 pm Thread Starter
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What Clutch to get

I was wondering what Clutch you guys get when you replace them The Siebenrock one or the OEM And where do you get the Siebenrock I have the dreaded main leak I did put a weep hole in Bell The Clutch is working fine But am sure my days are coming I just want to pull all the info I can in and start getting the parts
I know this been asked before and I have pretty good parts list in front of me but I want a doulbe checkj I want to know every seal, bolt, washer ,and anything else that goes with it I am replacing the clutch slave also And where is the cheapest place to get this all from
And for me to do this job in the next serveral months will not happen Because of I what have going on But it will

PS Thier is not somebody near me in Hudsonville Michigan in case I run into a Question or Problem that could come by just to give me some info on the issuse

Gary
2003 K1200LT

Last edited by GaryEm; Dec 25th, 2015 at 1:53 pm.
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post #2 of 110 Old Dec 25th, 2015, 7:07 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

Beemer Bone Yard sells two Siebenrock clutches. One is oil proof and $$$$. The other is less than the stock in $$ but better than stock is its name. I have one on the self for a friend (the one I mentioned) and it looks better built than stock. I used a stock one in mine @ 40 K and it is still going strong @ 98 K.
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post #3 of 110 Old Dec 25th, 2015, 8:57 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

I used the Siebenrock oil proof clutch in my 2004 when I replaced the clutch. I also installed new, Diaphragm Spring 21217688214
Pressure plate 21212332974
Housing Cover 21212333449
6 Housing Cover Screws 21211454417
6 Cover Screw Washers 21211242377
Hex Nut 11211460673
Compression Ring 11211460696
19mm X 4mm Viton O-ring

The new housing cover had some bad machine lines & I had to return it for a different one before I installed it. The clutch disc. works fine for me.
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post #4 of 110 Old Dec 26th, 2015, 4:19 am
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Re: What Clutch to get

I have never understood the need to upgrade to oil proof. There is not supposed to be oil in the clutch. It is a fault to be fixed - does one have oil proof clutch plate or not. So one cannot replace clutch job with oil proof plate. It can of course buy some extra miles but based on my experience I could ride hundreds of kilometers home with clutch soaking in oil.
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post #5 of 110 Old Dec 26th, 2015, 6:19 am Thread Starter
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Re: What Clutch to get

Quote:
Originally Posted by saddleman View Post
I used the Siebenrock oil proof clutch in my 2004 when I replaced the clutch. I also installed new, Diaphragm Spring 21217688214
Pressure plate 21212332974
Housing Cover 21212333449
6 Housing Cover Screws 21211454417
6 Cover Screw Washers 21211242377
Hex Nut 11211460673
Compression Ring 11211460696
19mm X 4mm Viton O-ring

The new housing cover had some bad machine lines & I had to return it for a different one before I installed it. The clutch disc. works fine for me.
Dave I see you did not or I should say I see no one replaced the Clutch Slave while they were in I was thinking that might be a good Idea
Dave you probably did replace the input and output seals on tran and the motor one right
This is all the seals I can come up with is thier more while I am thier
If you did not change the Clutch Slave is thier a seal on that besides the one it comes in contact against the the Tran

Gary
2003 K1200LT

Last edited by GaryEm; Dec 26th, 2015 at 6:32 am.
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post #6 of 110 Old Dec 26th, 2015, 6:55 am
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Re: What Clutch to get

Attached is the parts list that was used on my 2000 LT. This was done in January 2006. Included in the parts is the slave cylinder. My LT had 64k miles on it at the time. The reason for replacement was a leaky rear main seal. The service tech said that the clutch looked like it had very little wear, but changed everything out while it was apart.
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2000 LT - Totaled at 99,960 miles


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post #7 of 110 Old Dec 26th, 2015, 8:19 am Thread Starter
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Re: What Clutch to get

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrevelino View Post
Attached is the parts list that was used on my 2000 LT. This was done in January 2006. Included in the parts is the slave cylinder. My LT had 64k miles on it at the time. The reason for replacement was a leaky rear main seal. The service tech said that the clutch looked like it had very little wear, but changed everything out while it was apart.
Thanks for the info I have 90,000 miles on mine so I think I should get a New Clutch Slave sense the tech you had replaced at 64,000

Gary
2003 K1200LT
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post #8 of 110 Old Dec 26th, 2015, 9:28 am
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by C-A-D View Post
I have never understood the need to upgrade to oil proof. There is not supposed to be oil in the clutch. It is a fault to be fixed - does one have oil proof clutch plate or not. So one cannot replace clutch job with oil proof plate. It can of course buy some extra miles but based on my experience I could ride hundreds of kilometers home with clutch soaking in oil.
not knowing for sure the cause of the oring failure (material,compression, or heat) although $150 is a big difference I opted for the extra "sense of security". basically I looked at it like a clutch plate that absorbs oil even when there should not be any oil, is not as good as one that does not. honestly I felt like a sucker when I got it, but no regrets now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrevelino View Post
Attached is the parts list that was used on my 2000 LT. This was done in January 2006. Included in the parts is the slave cylinder. My LT had 64k miles on it at the time. The reason for replacement was a leaky rear main seal. The service tech said that the clutch looked like it had very little wear, but changed everything out while it was apart.
this list is great I used with the one JZ did, but the prices are surprisingly out dated for just nearly 10 years. I would have expected the price to remain/drop considering the volume of these parts that must have been sold.

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post #9 of 110 Old Dec 26th, 2015, 9:41 am
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by GaryEm View Post
Dave I see you did not or I should say I see no one replaced the Clutch Slave while they were in I was thinking that might be a good Idea
Dave you probably did replace the input and output seals on tran and the motor one right
This is all the seals I can come up with is thier more while I am thier
If you did not change the Clutch Slave is thier a seal on that besides the one it comes in contact against the the Tran
I replace my clutch slave every 60,000 miles. The rear main engine seal is Teflon not rubber & they very seldom leak. I didn't replace any trans. seals either.

Dave Selvig
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2000 Canon Red LT



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post #10 of 110 Old Dec 26th, 2015, 9:52 am
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by Panzer View Post
not knowing for sure the cause of the oring failure (material,compression, or heat)
I believe that heat causes the most failures, followed by synthetic oil (no blasting please). The original rubber seal solidifies and crumbles with the heat. I believe in using synthetic oil, but have heard that regular oil helps in keeping the seals more pliable (softer).

Mike Trevelino
Williamsburg, VA
2008 RT
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post #11 of 110 Old Dec 26th, 2015, 12:04 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

Here are two threads that will help with the project. First one deals with someone who purchased an aftermarket friction plate and then had trouble with dimension stack up because the friction disk was too thick. The second is one of the better threads with details on changing this seal out. As mentioned the crank main seal seldom if ever leaks. Most folks change it out because they are there and it is a long ways in. What needs to be changed are the intake seals and rubber parts, crank case rubber vent tube and stuff like that while you have it apart.

Gear box seal replacement progress. - I-BMW.com

GregRS's journey into seal territory - I-BMW.com

Get a Clymer service manual, a big help. The picture of the shouldered washer for the main crank nut is correct, OEM manual is backwards.

I can lend you the special tools needed for the job if you PM me.
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post #12 of 110 Old Dec 26th, 2015, 12:17 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

Here is a set up I used on the last RS Oring repair. I also have a supply of the Viton 19x4mm Oring you need that has failed.
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post #13 of 110 Old Dec 26th, 2015, 12:44 pm Thread Starter
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Re: What Clutch to get

Quote:
Originally Posted by beech View Post
Here are two threads that will help with the project. First one deals with someone who purchased an aftermarket friction plate and then had trouble with dimension stack up because the friction disk was too thick. The second is one of the better threads with details on changing this seal out. As mentioned the crank main seal seldom if ever leaks. Most folks change it out because they are there and it is a long ways in. What needs to be changed are the intake seals and rubber parts, crank case rubber vent tube and stuff like that while you have it apart.

Gear box seal replacement progress. - I-BMW.com

GregRS's journey into seal territory - I-BMW.com

Get a Clymer service manual, a big help. The picture of the shouldered washer for the main crank nut is correct, OEM manual is backwards.

I can lend you the special tools needed for the job if you PM me.

Thanks I will for sure keep tool lend offer in mind but I will not be getting at it for several months But thanks for the info you will probably be hearing from in the future
Now I am trying to take all the info I can in And get some parts on hand

Gary
2003 K1200LT
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post #14 of 110 Old Dec 26th, 2015, 11:11 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

Well, some may think I am out of my mind but I will be starting the dissassembly on Monday or Tuesday of my non leaking 2001 LT with 53K . It is a winter preemptive strike at the o-ring with replacement of most everything else along the way. I have all the seals, slave, nuts bolts washers, spring, Viton o-ring and the Siebenrock oil proof clutch from BBY. If I am going to do it, I only want to do it once and don't want to get stuck somewhere if it decides to start leaking.

With any luck, Panzer will be lending a hand and was the provider of some of the special tools he made when he did his and I will benefit from his experience of having already done it.

Replacing the hard rubber and seals on the throttle body as well while I have it out and probably the exterior fuel lines as well.
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post #15 of 110 Old Dec 27th, 2015, 7:49 am Thread Starter
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Re: What Clutch to get

When I remove the intake manifold to do job what new parts should I all get Maybe a breather manifold along with the engine breather hose and maybe the vacuum hose What else do I need for this area
And there is nothing tricky about replacing this stuff right just what to know what I am getting into

Gary
2003 K1200LT
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post #16 of 110 Old Dec 27th, 2015, 8:30 am
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Re: What Clutch to get

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When I remove the intake manifold to do job what new parts should I all get Maybe a breather manifold along with the engine breather hose and maybe the vacuum hose What else do I need for this area
And there is nothing tricky about replacing this stuff right just what to know what I am getting into
I changed out my breather tube when I did mine. I did not have much choice as it was torn in many spots and basically a goo. putting in the new one is reported to be tricky, but with the engine tilted it is far more easy, so yeah the timing is perfect.

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post #17 of 110 Old Dec 27th, 2015, 10:45 am
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Re: What Clutch to get

CoolK1200, please keep us up to speed on progress and things found.This is as good as any place to do it as we are all watching. Think about changing transmission case seals too, your there.

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post #18 of 110 Old Dec 27th, 2015, 6:42 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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CoolK1200, please keep us up to speed on progress and things found.This is as good as any place to do it as we are all watching. Think about changing transmission case seals too, your there.
Beech, I have the input and output seals as well as the slave seal for the transmission and Panzer provided the tools to properly seat the ones that are critical. Even though the main engine is Teflon and is seldom reported to be the leaking culprit, I am replacing that one as well. Bought a lift and some new tools for doing proper measurements before ripping out the old ones so I can verify proper placement when done.

My thinking is that if it would have cost me $xxxx to have the dealer do it, I can spend the extra on cool tools and do it myself. Then if i ever have to do it again or help someone do the same, I am 3 steps ahead.

I will take photos along the way and post as several of the stories i have read of people doing this vary somewhat in implementation up to the point of doing the actual seals.

Gordon

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1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
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post #19 of 110 Old Dec 27th, 2015, 6:57 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by GaryEm View Post
When I remove the intake manifold to do job what new parts should I all get Maybe a breather manifold along with the engine breather hose and maybe the vacuum hose What else do I need for this area
And there is nothing tricky about replacing this stuff right just what to know what I am getting into
When I pulled my throttle body to replace a misbehaving TP potentiometer, I noticed that the bushings were very hard from age. They can crack and be the source of a vacuum leak so I am putting new ones on this time. I made a breather tube from copper based on photos from other threads to replace the cracked and broken plastic one. Not having a proper breather hose to attach it to the block, I used radiator hose with the intention of replacing it with a proper material next time in which will be now. I ordered a Chrysler breather hose from Amazon which should hold up pretty well and has some interesting bends in it so fitment should not be an issue. Also ordered new o-ring seals for the TB mountings to the block as they can also leak and cause issues.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #20 of 110 Old Dec 27th, 2015, 7:51 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

Take a good picture of the Chrysler hose and provide the PN as I am sure other will be interested.

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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post #21 of 110 Old Dec 27th, 2015, 8:44 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Take a good picture of the Chrysler hose and provide the PN as I am sure other will be interested.
I will as long as it does what I want it to. It looks good in hand but when you actually decide what part to use on it, it may or may not be a good choice. It is something like 25 inches long with several nice bends in it that I thought might work well.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #22 of 110 Old Dec 27th, 2015, 9:05 pm Thread Starter
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Re: What Clutch to get

Thanks for the info everyone but I have one more question when you replace the slave cylinder do replace the push rod and felt which I think I would
Than I see on one thread where soneone talks about a seal that they have to pull before they put the slave back in But I went on Max Parts and can not seem to find one I see the gasket type one but I do not think thats one they where taking about
I did order a slave from BB for a 104 dollars and when they run out thier stock they will be done with these slaves Thought I let you know

Gary
2003 K1200LT

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post #23 of 110 Old Dec 27th, 2015, 9:31 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by GaryEm View Post
Thanks for the info everyone but I have one more question when you replace the slave cylinder do replace the push rod and felt which I think I would
Than I see on one thread where soneone talks about a seal that they have to pull before they put the slave back in But I went on Max Parts and can not seem to find one I see the gasket type one but I do not think thats one they where taking about

Others may have a different opinion but unless it is damaged, you would only replace the pushrod if it was the earlier model without the groove for the felt which is only there to keep it from rattling and the rattling bothered you. Otherwise, you would only replace the felt to keep it quiet. I don't know what year they switched. I think the Max BMW fiche only says earlier models. Unless someone knows what year that came out, you won't know until you open it up.

The felt ring PN is 23211230440 and the new pushrod if yours doesn't have the groove is 21527659113

The seal that goes in around the shaft the pushrod goes through behind the slave is 17x28x7 PN 23127705085 and the output shaft seal is 25x40x6 PN 23122330135 and is found on the transmission housing/mount parts/gaskets fiche. I ordered both as I plan on replacing all seals I come into contact with Both the 99-04 and the 05 - 09 fiche list the same 2 part numbers.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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Last edited by bmwcoolk1200; Dec 27th, 2015 at 9:45 pm.
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post #24 of 110 Old Dec 27th, 2015, 11:54 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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I replace my clutch slave every 60,000 miles. The rear main engine seal is Teflon not rubber & they very seldom leak. I didn't replace any trans. seals either.
I've replaced 6 rear main seals for leakage. All but one had been put in without a proper seal driver. All were warped and not seated properly. some were done by BMW techs. I've rebuilt 3 transmissions. All had over 75k (one had nearly 200k) and the front bearings were either shot or about to be. The transmission seals were not far behind. I've replaced over a dozen clutch slave cylinders. One was definitely shot. The others were preventative maintenance. I've always felt that if I was that far deep into the bike I might as well freshen it up.

It's been a while since I've surfed the Forum. It looks like most of you guys are still working on the LT's and haven't jumped to the new K bikes yet. Excellent! We love our LT!

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post #25 of 110 Old Dec 28th, 2015, 1:41 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

OK, have the old girl up on the lift and all my parts and tools laid out and ready. Time to tickle the old girl a bit and see if I can get her undressed.
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Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #26 of 110 Old Dec 28th, 2015, 3:18 pm Thread Starter
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
Others may have a different opinion but unless it is damaged, you would only replace the pushrod if it was the earlier model without the groove for the felt which is only there to keep it from rattling and the rattling bothered you. Otherwise, you would only replace the felt to keep it quiet. I don't know what year they switched. I think the Max BMW fiche only says earlier models. Unless someone knows what year that came out, you won't know until you open it up.

The felt ring PN is 23211230440 and the new pushrod if yours doesn't have the groove is 21527659113

The seal that goes in around the shaft the pushrod goes through behind the slave is 17x28x7 PN 23127705085 and the output shaft seal is 25x40x6 PN 23122330135 and is found on the transmission housing/mount parts/gaskets fiche. I ordered both as I plan on replacing all seals I come into contact with Both the 99-04 and the 05 - 09 fiche list the same 2 part numbers.
Thanks for the info I am slowly getting things figured out and getting some of parts together I hope everything works out for you
on your major job Maybe you get done you can fill me in on something to look for a first time job like this
Ya great Pictures for a start of it good luck But I do not see a presure plate or a spacer ring or maybe we do not have to put new ones on And it looks like you stole my Table Jack
Any way have GREAT New Year

Gary
2003 K1200LT

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post #27 of 110 Old Dec 28th, 2015, 5:15 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Thanks for the info I am slowly getting things figured out and getting some of parts together I hope everything works out for you
on your major job Maybe you get done you can fill me in on something to look for a first time job like this
Ya great Pictures for a start of it good luck But I do not see a presure plate or a spacer ring or maybe we do not have to put new ones on And it looks like you stole my Table Jack
Any way have GREAT New Year
Gary, although i have done big type jobs before on cages, this is a first for me digging this deep into my LT. I didn't buy the spacer ring or the pressure plate and cover hoping that mine are in good shape and just a new spring will make the set close to new again. If they are dished, then i will have to pause a few days and order replacements and they are expensive if I don't need them.

Got the girl undressed and am done for the day. Tomorrow I will pull the tank, the final drive and swing arm getting ready for Panzer on Wednesday. Need to figure out a way to support the back end with stuff I have. I have some ideas from others postings so I should be pretty OK once I get to that tomorrow.

I will let you know of any gotchas i run into along the way like how the heck do you get that reverse switch off. It may not need to come off but I think there is a warning of bending something if you don't.
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Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #28 of 110 Old Dec 28th, 2015, 5:22 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

I left the reverse switch on & just unplugged the connector.

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post #29 of 110 Old Dec 28th, 2015, 5:22 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

If it's any help to anyone, I wrote up the teardown procedure when Axle and I stripped down my 2005 to do the clutch... made it easier when putting the girl back together just re-tracing my steps.
attached as a pdf... can't see how to upload to technical files anymore.

This was the lead up to BlauBeeMr's fine document, which is in the files.

Hope your 2016 is a good one!
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Chris
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post #30 of 110 Old Dec 28th, 2015, 5:41 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

Ditto on "don't remove the revere switches". Too easy to break them, just unplug the connector and leave it on the tranny. Be mindful with the front wheel chock when raising the rear of the bike. Check the straps since your pivot point on the axle is higher. It just caught me off guard the first time I did it. As the bike moved forward as well as up.

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
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post #31 of 110 Old Dec 28th, 2015, 5:49 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by saddleman View Post
I left the reverse switch on & just unplugged the connector.
I have the wire lose and took the 10mm nut off but the pin underneath where the cut out on the switch fit over, wouldn't let the switch slide off the bolt and I didn't see an easy way around that so I just put the nut back on. I will probably leave it that way and do it as you did.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #32 of 110 Old Dec 28th, 2015, 5:54 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Ditto on "don't remove the revere switches". Too easy to break them, just unplug the connector and leave it on the tranny. Be mindful with the front wheel chock when raising the rear of the bike. Check the straps since your pivot point on the axle is higher. It just caught me off guard the first time I did it. As the bike moved forward as well as up.
Thanks John, I ran into that already when I tried to jack up the bike to get the center stand down after I ran it into the front wheel chock like you have on your trailer I had to loosen the straps to allow the bike to move up easier. Going to leave the switch alone.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #33 of 110 Old Dec 28th, 2015, 5:55 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws View Post
If it's any help to anyone, I wrote up the teardown procedure when Axle and I stripped down my 2005 to do the clutch... made it easier when putting the girl back together just re-tracing my steps.
attached as a pdf... can't see how to upload to technical files anymore.

This was the lead up to BlauBeeMr's fine document, which is in the files.

Hope your 2016 is a good one!
Thanks Chris. Downloaded and looking it over.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #34 of 110 Old Dec 29th, 2015, 6:02 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

Managed to get most of the bits off today in between conference calls and meetings. Still have the cross bar, center stand and the speed sensor on the transmission. I used the last few minutes of daylight to cut down the allen wrench to be able to get to the sensor bolt and also cut and slotted two 8mm bolts for guide pins.

I am guessing it gets messy if you pull seals with the engine tilting backward and full of oil so I will be draining that also in the morning before Panzer arrives to assist and provide knowledge gained from his experience on things I missed.
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Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #35 of 110 Old Dec 29th, 2015, 6:46 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
Managed to get most of the bits off today in between conference calls and meetings. Still have the cross bar, center stand and the speed sensor on the transmission. I used the last few minutes of daylight to cut down the allen wrench to be able to get to the sensor bolt and also cut and slotted two 8mm bolts for guide pins.

I am guessing it gets messy if you pull seals with the engine tilting backward and full of oil so I will be draining that also in the morning before Panzer arrives to assist and provide knowledge gained from his experience on things I missed.
I am so stoked. this is going to be a blast. I'll bring my heat gun too. in case you want to get into the gearbox.

02 K1200LTC Black
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post #36 of 110 Old Dec 29th, 2015, 7:03 pm Thread Starter
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Re: What Clutch to get

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
Managed to get most of the bits off today in between conference calls and meetings. Still have the cross bar, center stand and the speed sensor on the transmission. I used the last few minutes of daylight to cut down the allen wrench to be able to get to the sensor bolt and also cut and slotted two 8mm bolts for guide pins.

I am guessing it gets messy if you pull seals with the engine tilting backward and full of oil so I will be draining that also in the morning before Panzer arrives to assist and provide knowledge gained from his experience on things I missed.
I am just wondering are you looking at it already and thinking what am I getting into
Maybe I will head right on down there by you guys and we can work on mine next

But really keep us posted and if you run in something that you think to your self boy nobody mentioned that POST IT Just saying for my notes

Gary
2003 K1200LT
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post #37 of 110 Old Dec 29th, 2015, 9:29 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by GaryEm View Post
I am just wondering are you looking at it already and thinking what am I getting into
Maybe I will head right on down there by you guys and we can work on mine next

But really keep us posted and if you run in something that you think to your self boy nobody mentioned that POST IT Just saying for my notes
Seeing I am doing the unthinkable of tearing down a perfectly fine bike with no signs of leaks or clutch slippage simply to replace a $1.39 cent O-Ring, and replace $800 worth of parts along the way, all seems to be going along according to others documented experiences. My biggest asset is Panzer who seems excited to come and help LOL!! If anything out of the " ordinary" happens, you can count on pictures being posted with play by play details on what it was and how it was dealt with.

If you do happen to want to drag yours from Michigan down to Atlanta, I will be happy to assist in the replacement of your necessary parts. Lord knows, I have the stuff to do it.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #38 of 110 Old Dec 29th, 2015, 9:35 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by Panzer View Post
I am so stoked. this is going to be a blast. I'll bring my heat gun too. in case you want to get into the gearbox.
I have a heat gun and a torch as necessary. I am just glad to have someone else to help with this task. Even if it would be for someone to simply watch and ask questions which in your case, it is not. Doing this alone is a really big job seeing we are not BMW certified techs. Very doable as my tech skills and tools are up to the challenge but there isn't much left of the bike once you get to that o-ring.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #39 of 110 Old Dec 30th, 2015, 6:06 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

Panzer arrived about 9am and we started in. Got the trans out, clutch replaced with siebenrock plate, plate qnd cover were not in bad shape, only a very slight dishing of a couple thousandths so I decided to go ahead and use them.

The main seal replaced, trans seals, in and output seals replaced, slave replaced, O-ring replaced. The O-ring is hard as a rock and square with signs of oil seepage so I guess i was not totally out of my mind in tearing it down.

Installed new bushings on the throttle body and replaced the radiator hose i used to attach the breather previously with a proper material breather tube that can handle the oil and vapor.

Panzer was a Godsend and a real trouper. Having that second set of hands when installing the transmission made a 5 minute job of what Panzer spent 3 hours doing by himself. The tools he fabricated also made quick work of setting the seals and making sure they were evenly installed and at the correct depth. Attaching a picture of todays dead men. Now the process of getting all those things I pulled off , labeled and put in red party cups back on the bike.
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Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #40 of 110 Old Dec 30th, 2015, 6:23 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
Panzer arrived about 9am and we started in. Got the trans out, clutch replaced with siebenrock plate, plate qnd cover were not in bad shape, only a very slight dishing of a couple thousandths so I decided to go ahead and use them.

The main seal replaced, trans seals, in and output seals replaced, slave replaced, O-ring replaced. The O-ring is hard as a rock and square with signs of oil seepage so I guess i was not totally out of my mind in tearing it down.

Installed new bushings on the throttle body and replaced the radiator hose i used to attach the breather previously with a proper material breather tube that can handle the oil and vapor.

Panzer was a Godsend and a real trouper. Having that second set of hands when installing the transmission made a 5 minute job of what Panzer spent 3 hours doing by himself. The tools he fabricated also made quick work of setting the seals and making sure they were evenly installed and at the correct depth. Attaching a picture of todays dead men. Now the process of getting all those things I pulled off , labeled and put in red party cups back on the bike.
Thanks for detailed report and pictures.

QUESTION: can you measure your remaining clutch-friction-plate thickness AND also specifiy known mileage on that plate?
When I did mine at 54,000 miles it was oil-soaked BUT only worn about 30% (down to 5.6mm - minimum specs is 4.5 on K1200RS)

-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
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post #41 of 110 Old Dec 30th, 2015, 6:31 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Thanks for detailed report and pictures.

QUESTION: can you measure your remaining clutch-friction-plate thickness AND also specifiy known mileage on that plate?
When I did mine at 54,000 miles it was oil-soaked BUT only worn about 30% (down to 5.6mm - minimum specs is 4.5 on K1200RS)
John, mine measures 5.53mm and it is not oil soaked at 53.3K.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #42 of 110 Old Dec 30th, 2015, 6:58 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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John, mine measures 5.53mm and it is not oil soaked at 53.3K.
Thanks for reply!
So... we did about the same for similar mileage. Your friction plate could still be of some use as it was not oil soaked. Someone not hard on these clutch could easily do another 65,000 miles with it. The job is so long, I understand you might want to start with a brand new max thickness plate ;-)

I bough my K1200RS brand new in 2002 and began having a seeping / leak from housing junction when I choose to do the job in 2007. The O-ring was found to be pretty hard and somewhat cracked. The main seal did not look bad, but was replaced for newer type anyway.

-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
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post #43 of 110 Old Dec 30th, 2015, 8:04 pm Thread Starter
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 View Post
Panzer arrived about 9am and we started in. Got the trans out, clutch replaced with siebenrock plate, plate qnd cover were not in bad shape, only a very slight dishing of a couple thousandths so I decided to go ahead and use them.

The main seal replaced, trans seals, in and output seals replaced, slave replaced, O-ring replaced. The O-ring is hard as a rock and square with signs of oil seepage so I guess i was not totally out of my mind in tearing it down.

Installed new bushings on the throttle body and replaced the radiator hose i used to attach the breather previously with a proper material breather tube that can handle the oil and vapor.

Panzer was a Godsend and a real trouper. Having that second set of hands when installing the transmission made a 5 minute job of what Panzer spent 3 hours doing by himself. The tools he fabricated also made quick work of setting the seals and making sure they were evenly installed and at the correct depth. Attaching a picture of todays dead men. Now the process of getting all those things I pulled off , labeled and put in red party cups back on the bike.
Great Job wish you guys were in my area thats where I feel I would run into trouble getting the transmission out and putting the darn seals in correct I pretty much had the rest of the bike naked to that point Anyway great JOB

Gary
2003 K1200LT
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post #44 of 110 Old Dec 30th, 2015, 8:09 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Great Job wish you guys were in my area thats where I feel I would run into trouble getting the transmission out and putting the darn seals in correct I pretty much had the rest of the bike naked to that point Anyway great JOB
We talked about you today and would love to help if we were closer. My bike is still pretty naked but the hard part is done. I just hope it starts when I press the button

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #45 of 110 Old Dec 30th, 2015, 8:16 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Your friction plate could still be of some use as it was not oil soaked. Someone not hard on these clutch could easily do another 65,000 miles with it.
I plan on keeping it in case anyone should happen to need or want it at some later date. It doesn't look that bad and as you say, it does still have some decent life in it.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #46 of 110 Old Jan 1st, 2016, 11:34 am
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Tag for help
OK John, after it sitting for a day after reinstalling the transmission, i have seepage at the rear output shaft. What did I do wrong here. I looked for an oil hole on the shaft and saw none so this seal should be sitting on the shaft all the way around. I think this is the one seal I didn't remember to measure before pulling it. Does it look in too far or not far enough?
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2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #47 of 110 Old Jan 1st, 2016, 12:01 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Tag for help
Best depth measurements I can make now put it around 75 to 80 thousandths which is just slightly deeper than the tool of 50 thousandths. Looked at the weep hole videos but i can't get a very good view to compare with.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #48 of 110 Old Jan 1st, 2016, 3:32 pm Thread Starter
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Best depth measurements I can make now put it around 75 to 80 thousandths which is just slightly deeper than the tool of 50 thousandths. Looked at the weep hole videos but i can't get a very good view to compare with.
I was just wondering do you have the OEM SEAL There is a nother option I thought I would Bring it up on all the searching I been doing about this main seal thing Not saying its any better
Timken Natiolal Seal 25x40x70 part# 00601809 I think you can get local too

Gary
2003 K1200LT

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post #49 of 110 Old Jan 1st, 2016, 3:59 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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I was just wondering do you have the OEM SEAL There is a nother option I thought I would Bring it up on all the searching I been doing about this main seal thing Not saying its any better
Timken Natiolal Seal 25x40x70 part# 00601809 I think you can get local too
Gary, did you type that wrong? the specs in the book are 25x40x6 and the seal I removed matches those dimensions.There is a double lip Nitrile Butadiene Rubber seal listed on Amazon

Robot Check

but the replacement seal ( 23 12 2 330 135 SHAFT SEAL - 25X40X6 ) is supposed to fit. I remember seeing a picture of one of the transmission shaft with an oil hole very close to the seal lip so placement would be pretty critical but I looked at each shaft to see if there was any oil hole and I did not see any at all. The seal appears to be evenly seated although possibly 20 thousandths too deep. Unless there is a decrease in the shaft diameter further in, I am confused as to why i am getting seepage. It hasn't even run yet.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #50 of 110 Old Jan 1st, 2016, 4:24 pm
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Re: What Clutch to get

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Originally Posted by GaryEm View Post
I was just wondering do you have the OEM SEAL There is a nother option I thought I would Bring it up on all the searching I been doing about this main seal thing Not saying its any better
Timken Natiolal Seal 25x40x70 part# 00601809 I think you can get local too
Went and looked and found what I believe you were referring to, a 25x40x7 Timken National seal. The only difference I might see with that is that it is a single lip seal where others listed on Amazon are a double lip seal as is the one I removed. The replacement I put in was a single lip I believe and the MAX fiche picture shows a single lip seal as well. I wonder how much benefit you get from a double lip seal vs a single lip.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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