Advice on LT purchase needed. - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 35 Old Dec 12th, 2015, 4:34 pm Thread Starter
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Advice on LT purchase needed.

All, a friend of mine found this 2003 LT with 51K km for 3700 euro(~4070usd). The current owner told us that the ABS Integral Unit has a problem and needs replace. He described the problem as follows:
He tried to vent the unit but it keeps air in it. He could not vent it properly. Authorized dealer asked him 500 euro to repair it and promised it will work fine.
What's your opinion? Should he go for it or the ABS unit is not repairable but only replaceable with a new one? What should I advise him?
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post #2 of 35 Old Dec 12th, 2015, 6:47 pm
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Some have bypassed the ABS on servo models like that. They get along fine. A new pump would cost half the price of that bike. I'd ride it without ABS.
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post #3 of 35 Old Dec 12th, 2015, 8:12 pm
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikosK1200LT View Post
He tried to vent the unit but it keeps air in it. He could not vent it properly. Authorized dealer asked him 500 euro to repair it and promised it will work fine.
he might as well learn how to bleed these brakes because he'll do it every year. A full factory bleed is probably called for here but you can short-cut it a bit if the system is working right. Here is a good thread to start: http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...ake-fluid.html

If you get stuck google "bmw k1200lt iabs bleed F1 R1" and start reading. There are various guides and youtube vids on it.
-kent
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post #4 of 35 Old Dec 13th, 2015, 12:41 am
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

The original price seems about right BUT with the known problem, not so good. I ask the seller to lower the price by the cost of the repair/override OR at least lower the price by half of the cost of repair/bypass.
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post #5 of 35 Old Dec 13th, 2015, 4:43 am Thread Starter
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Thanks Kent. We 'll check the thread.
Jim, your advise puts us in deep thoughts. I will advise him to trade tougher. We 'll see what he comes up with. Thanks.
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post #6 of 35 Old Dec 13th, 2015, 9:15 am
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

BTW, there is a helpful guide to understanding the brake system here. Go to top menu-->Tools-->technical-->Hall of Wisdom-->Maintenance-->Brake system-->Fluid Change (integral)
-Kent
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post #7 of 35 Old Dec 13th, 2015, 11:44 am
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

That price seems ok for that year IF the ABS is working normally. That said, I would ask the seller to have it repaired and verified. If you have him give you an allowance/reduction for the repairs, what do you do if the dealer's first impression was wrong and it is determined that the ABS unit is bad and needs to be replaced?

I'll tell you what... you will have paid more than 50% MORE than what the bike might be worth.

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post #8 of 35 Old Dec 13th, 2015, 6:17 pm
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

The current owner already said the ABS unit needs to be replaced.
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post #9 of 35 Old Dec 13th, 2015, 9:18 pm
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Based on the price for repair quoted, it sounds more like the dealer will be bleeding the air out of the system than replacing the ABS unit. Taking off and putting back on the tupperware plays a big part of the cost when getting any work done by a third party.

I would be inclined to offer the reduced price to allow for the dealer's cost to repair the ABS, watch the videos and then bleed the brakes yourself.

The only time the dealer has touched my bike is when I had them mount new tires on it and I had someone else install aftermarket shocks/springs. Other than those two times, I've done all the work myself. John Zeiler (our premier LT guru) also used it as the maintenance demo at this year's CCR in Coeur d'Alene when we did the valve check, so I guess you could say that I've had others work on it three times.
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post #10 of 35 Old Dec 14th, 2015, 8:02 am
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarjim View Post
The current owner already said the ABS unit needs to be replaced.
Yes, saw that, but I also read that the dealer stated could fix for $500, and those assessments appear incongruent. This is why I suggested that the repairs be done first rather than just a $500 adjestment is sought.

If the ABS unit needs to be replaced, do you know of anyone who could do it for $500? Parts ($2400) plus $500 for labor even seems like reach.

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post #11 of 35 Old Dec 14th, 2015, 8:57 am Thread Starter
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

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Yes, saw that, but I also read that the dealer stated could fix for $500, and those assessments appear incongruent. This is why I suggested that the repairs be done first rather than just a $500 adjestment is sought.

If the ABS unit needs to be replaced, do you know of anyone who could do it for $500? Parts ($2400) plus $500 for labor even seems like reach.
Deputy5211, the seller said that he wouldn't repair the problem and this is the reason he sells at 3700 euro. Otherwise he said "I'd sell the bike for around 6000 euro if it had no problem".
As I understand he just wants to get rid of the bike because the repair is expensive for his technical skills and just names the repair at 500 euro to trick the buyer.
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post #12 of 35 Old Dec 14th, 2015, 10:06 am
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Hi, in my opinion is this a very good price, more than fair.
Even if you cant bleed it and you need a repair that cost you about 700,- Euro from R&H Elektronik Germany or somewhere else in the US.
For a 2003 LT you pay here across the pond about 4000,- / 6000,- Euro.
So I would go for it.

Manfred
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post #13 of 35 Old Dec 14th, 2015, 10:15 am
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Are there any other k1200LTs available in your area? What is the price of those? Don't take the seller's word for it.

Now we know the 500 was just a guess by the owner. I haven't priced any ABS units and hope I never have to...oh great, where is some wood around here for me knock on, everything is plastic or fake wood...now, I am in trouble...what if I throw salt over my shoulder...no, I think that is for something else...

There might be some European options for the repair that are better priced than what we can do in the USA. The BMWs are all over the place in Europe.
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Last edited by guitarjim; Dec 14th, 2015 at 11:25 am.
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post #14 of 35 Old Dec 14th, 2015, 11:06 am
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

That's right but the prices are higher over here then in the states.
I bought my 2005 in SF or close by. Used the bike for some Years in the US and shipped it over to Germany because I have had some trouble with registration in FL. I sold my 2001 German LT and ride now the 2005 Us Bike. Must say it was a lot cheaper to do it this way then buy a 2005 over here.
I doubt that you can find a 2003 in good condition over here for that price.

Hope this will help you

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post #15 of 35 Old Dec 14th, 2015, 3:54 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

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Hi, in my opinion is this a very good price, more than fair.
Even if you cant bleed it and you need a repair that cost you about 700,- Euro from R&H Elektronik Germany or somewhere else in the US.
For a 2003 LT you pay here across the pond about 4000,- / 6000,- Euro.
So I would go for it.
Thanks Manfred. Can you please give me a link of R&H Electronik so I check with them if and how much is the repair cost?
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post #16 of 35 Old Dec 15th, 2015, 3:26 am
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Hi, yes there is a link to R H electronic is in German but easy to use.

Steuergeräte Reparatur für Ihr Motorsteuergerät

And here is a link to a German side for used Cars, Bikes and others. There U can check your self what is on the market and which price they are askin for. Is also in German but the pic's and symbols speak for them self.

mobile.de ? Gebrauchtwagen und Neuwagen ? Deutschlands größter Fahrzeugmarkt

Hope this help you a step further,

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post #17 of 35 Old Dec 15th, 2015, 4:56 am Thread Starter
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Thanks Manfred.
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post #18 of 35 Old Dec 15th, 2015, 7:55 am
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

With a Mity-Vac there is an easy way to replace/flush the fluid and eliminate all air without removing any body work or even lifting the seat.
It is not the BMW way, but it is quick and a little messy.

If you look at the Brake circuit diagrams, you will figure it out.
I have done it to several LT's, mine and friends and all have worked perfectly with new fluid. It is about a twenty minute job to do front and rear.

No I will not explain. Some of the old curmudgeons on this site will flame if you don't go exactly by what the BMW manual states.
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post #19 of 35 Old Dec 15th, 2015, 10:27 am
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I would be interested in the way how you do that.
Took me allways longer with a lot of bodywork and was afraid that something goes wrong.
So let us know .

Manfred
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post #20 of 35 Old Dec 15th, 2015, 4:12 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

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With a Mity-Vac there is an easy way to replace/flush the fluid and eliminate all air without removing any body work or even lifting the seat.
It is not the BMW way, but it is quick and a little messy.

If you look at the Brake circuit diagrams, you will figure it out.
I have done it to several LT's, mine and friends and all have worked perfectly with new fluid. It is about a twenty minute job to do front and rear.

No I will not explain. Some of the old curmudgeons on this site will flame if you don't go exactly by what the BMW manual states.
C'mon, it's a free Democracy governed forum. Please enlighten us. I will need to bleed my LT soon.
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post #21 of 35 Old Dec 16th, 2015, 4:40 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Finally after too much thinkin my friend Bill changed his mind and goes for another LT. 2000 this one with only 15K km and at 6000 euro. This is reported to have no problem at all. We 'll see in the near future what comes up.
A Great Thank You All for your opinions.
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post #22 of 35 Old Dec 16th, 2015, 6:28 pm
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Just perused the site that Manfred linked to, and found a same year bike as mine with similar mileage (kilometrage? ), similarly equipped, and the seller wants half again what I paid for mine. So, yes, it seems these bikes sell for more back in the Fatherland than they do here.


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post #23 of 35 Old Dec 17th, 2015, 11:18 am
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Looks like your friend may have made a smart decision. Hopefully the latest LT was ridden some each year and not sitting all alone for the last 4-5 years. I hope Bill gets a lot of smiles and miles out of the bike.
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post #24 of 35 Old Dec 17th, 2015, 4:16 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

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Looks like your friend may have made a smart decision. Hopefully the latest LT was ridden some each year and not sitting all alone for the last 4-5 years. I hope Bill gets a lot of smiles and miles out of the bike.
Yeah, I hope he's lucky too because he's not very handy with mechanics. If this girl gives him trouble he's gonna spend his bucks to the BMW dealers.
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post #25 of 35 Old Dec 17th, 2015, 7:09 pm
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

I love folks who are not mechanically inclined.
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I Absolutely LOVE Harley riders. They are so thankful about the $$$ I save them that there is always a big tip.

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post #26 of 35 Old Dec 18th, 2015, 6:58 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Mike, I believe you 're right. Finally my buddy Bill got himself the 6000 euro 2000LT as he stated. That guy, wow, he was damn lucky men. The seller was a "show off" person that rode this gal only a few weekends per year. The bike price was lowered down to 4800 euro by Bill because the ABS light was continuously on and it did not turn off anyhow(for their knowledge). After cash(that's why he brought it down to 48 hundred eu, cash money talks) and the paperwork, Bill loaded the gal and brought her home after 600 km. He just rode it for one km to bring it to our meeting point. The bike had only 14500 km on the meter. It was so well maintained that I felt I saw it coming off the production line. It even has an immobilizer system on it.
Took my flash light and checked around starting with the fluids. The coolant level was not even visible way down below the MIN line. The same goes for the rear brake oil. Nothing visible in the tank though the pedal was full and felt very well. Anyway, total overview of the bike was more than impressive. I asked him, "did you check the fluids levels as I advised you?" he said "no, I was too anxious on the trade and paperwork that it skipped my head" was his reply.
I thank God that he decided to load and not drive it home. He 'd smoke the engine on the first kilometers. Tomorrow he 'll bring it over my place to check and complete the fluids to make it operational. Then after my advise he will take it to a nearby dealer to replace all the fluids with new ones and do the 10000 km service that the previous owner "forgot" as he just wanted to sell it.
I must admit, Bill was very lucky. The bike doesn't even have scratches on the paint or on the luggage internal plastics. He even got all the BMW booklets and a complete tool kit with it. More news tomorrow.
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post #27 of 35 Old Dec 19th, 2015, 6:12 am
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

I have seen the ABS light flash when the battery is in poor condition, also.

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post #28 of 35 Old Dec 19th, 2015, 4:34 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Okay, today the new LT came to my garage(just my car/bikes parking area, nothing special).
First, I removed the back seat and opened the rear brake tank. It was completely empty. But, although empty it was lucky enough not to have drawn air in the system. I say this because the rear brake lever was very tough, it needed about 8mm to get to the fully braking position. If it had air inside it would go easily all the way down and repeated pumping would be needed. I filled it half-way between the two marks HIGH-LOW but later-on the ABS light stayed on. Is this fault code memorized in the ECU and needs to be cleared with the GS-911? I did not attempt to remove the battery as it has an immobilizer unit and as I do not know it I was afraid for any unexpected surprises.
Second, I checked the coolant level. The expansion tank was completely empty, dry. I filled it also half-way and waiting to add coolant if needed.
Can someone advise me, if we remove the battery are we gonna have trouble with the immobilizer?
Also, the environment temp reads -40 deg C. How can we fix this one?
I also found that the two torx bolts under the driver's pegs were missing. I put some common hex ones till he gets some torx ones.

Then I took it for a ride. It felt great. All the controls feel very tight like it came off the production line yesterday.
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post #29 of 35 Old Dec 20th, 2015, 4:52 am Thread Starter
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Anyone on the immobilizer question?
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post #30 of 35 Old Dec 27th, 2015, 1:31 pm
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

I would have current owner take it to the dealer and have it bled if he wants asking price for it. Otherwise. I would walk or get the asking price substantially reduced. You can find another LT with Abs reasonably priced. The LT is a great machine. But,The resale value is not all too great with everything in working order let alone a bad ABS pump. But for the right price it would be feasable to bypass.

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post #31 of 35 Old Dec 27th, 2015, 6:26 pm
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Changing the battery should not cause any issues with the immobilizer.

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post #32 of 35 Old Dec 27th, 2015, 7:26 pm
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Are you videos listed under your user name here, MikeERideWNC?
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post #33 of 35 Old Dec 28th, 2015, 3:49 am Thread Starter
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

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Changing the battery should not cause any issues with the immobilizer.
Thanks John, already tested it with another in better shape battery. ABS did not clear. The immo did not create any problem but the ABS reading stays on. I wonder, should it clear on it's own after I filled the rear brake tank or as the problem was registered in the ECU it needs the GS-911 to clear the fault?
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post #34 of 35 Old Dec 28th, 2015, 3:52 am Thread Starter
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

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I would have current owner take it to the dealer and have it bled if he wants asking price for it. Otherwise. I would walk or get the asking price substantially reduced. You can find another LT with Abs reasonably priced. The LT is a great machine. But,The resale value is not all too great with everything in working order let alone a bad ABS pump. But for the right price it would be feasable to bypass.
James, the price was lowered by 1200 euro off the initial price. So, the new owner took responsibility for this problem as he traded it and kept these 1.2K in his pocket. He 'll take it to an authorized service and
we 'll she was comes up.
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post #35 of 35 Old May 13th, 2016, 5:18 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Advice on LT purchase needed.

Ok, the guy was DAMN LUCKY. After sometime riding with the ABS lights on he discovered a GS 911 owner. They hooked it up and it read a bad front ABS sensor. Ordered and replaced it. After this the ABS does it's self check on startup and goes off. ABS tested and works fine. Lucky, lucky guy.I believe I'll have him search for my next used LT.
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