HELP HELP WON"T START - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 21 Old Sep 13th, 2006, 9:32 pm Thread Starter
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HELP HELP WON"T START

When trying to start I get a soft pitch whine while pressing the start button but the engine does not turn over. I also do not hear the usual noise of the fuel pump when I first turn the key. Fuel is good and battery is good, Checked side stand and reverse lever and the kill switch. Any Ideas?

Thanks
Joe
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post #2 of 21 Old Sep 13th, 2006, 9:42 pm
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Hi Joe:

What year is your bike?

Possibles:

1) Side stand switch is bad
2) battery is done for and the starter relay won't let you start
3) the wire from the alternator is loose or disconnected
4) bike may still be in 'reverse' try actuating the reverse knob a few times and see if it makes a difference.



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post #3 of 21 Old Sep 13th, 2006, 9:46 pm Thread Starter
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If side stand switch bad won't the bike not even try to turn over? When I press the start switch it sound like the starter is running but is not engaged with the engine.
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post #4 of 21 Old Sep 13th, 2006, 9:48 pm Thread Starter
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Bike is 2002
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post #5 of 21 Old Sep 13th, 2006, 9:55 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovero
If side stand switch bad won't the bike not even try to turn over? When I press the start switch it sound like the starter is running but is not engaged with the engine.
UH OH,, sounds like the starter sprag clutch is not engaging. A royal BITCH to replace, I know from experience.

Try this: With it in gear, rock the bike back and forth to bump the engine around a little and then try it again. If the sprag clutch is sticking, often just bumping the engine a little will jar it loose.

If that is it and you do get it running again, get a bottle of CD-2 and put that in the oil and hopefully that will clear it up so it does not stick again.

I learned about it AFTER mine got so bad it would not engage at all. If I had used CD2 when I first noticed the problem starting, I may not have had to replace it. Don Eilenberger, a well known expert on the BMW "BIG list" has an article here:
http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/sprag-clutch.shtml

Here is what it looks like:
http://www.midwayautosupply.com/deta...ption.asp?1072

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #6 of 21 Old Sep 13th, 2006, 10:12 pm Thread Starter
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It started. I put the bike in reverse and put the side stand up and down a few times. The bike still had the same problem. Put bike in gear and rocked it a bit. Bike now starts. If i bring bike to dealer should there be a fault code?
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post #7 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2006, 5:06 am
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I'm shocked David.

Greetings.

David I'm shocked! It's the first time I've seen you swear! (bitch) hehehe. Just kidding my friend.

Hows that "porridge" going over there in SD?

Kindest regards to you.

Paul Harrington
Australia
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1999 K1200LT Champagne "Bismarck"
1983 base K100 "Bavarian Belle"
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post #8 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2006, 5:34 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrowbmw
Greetings.

David I'm shocked! It's the first time I've seen you swear! (bitch) hehehe. Just kidding my friend.

Hows that "porridge" going over there in SD?

Kindest regards to you.

Paul Harrington
Australia
[email protected]
Replacing the sprag clutch will make a preacher swear! That was by far the worst job I ever tackled on the LT. Replacing the pistons was a snap in comparison. The entire engine/tranny comes out, the tranny off, and the intermediate housing comes off the rear of the engine.

The porridge is still fine.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #9 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2006, 5:36 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovero
It started. I put the bike in reverse and put the side stand up and down a few times. The bike still had the same problem. Put bike in gear and rocked it a bit. Bike now starts. If i bring bike to dealer should there be a fault code?
No fault code will be generated that I know of.

How many miles on your bike? My sprag clutch "stuck up" at about 90K.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #10 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2006, 11:32 am Thread Starter
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Hi Dave,

I have 42k on the bike. All schedule maintenance has been performed by the dealer. The starting issue has only happen this one time. Bike now starts with no problem. I'm going to add some CD-2. I was about to go on a trip and wonder if the problem will reoccur? Any advise other than adding CD-2 and hope the problem does not happen again?

Thanks
Joe
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post #11 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2006, 12:42 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovero
Hi Dave,

I have 42k on the bike. All schedule maintenance has been performed by the dealer. The starting issue has only happen this one time. Bike now starts with no problem. I'm going to add some CD-2. I was about to go on a trip and wonder if the problem will reoccur? Any advise other than adding CD-2 and hope the problem does not happen again?

Thanks
Joe
No other advice. If the CD-2 loosens and disperses the buildup of deposits on the sprag cage it could last the life of the bike with no further problems. When I removed mine, just touching the sprags loosened them, and I could have cleaned the assembly well and re-installed it. No wear to speak of was evident, just a little varnish buildup. I had already purchased the new sprag cage assembly, so installed it.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #12 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2006, 1:09 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovero
Hi Dave,

I have 42k on the bike. All schedule maintenance has been performed by the dealer. The starting issue has only happen this one time. Bike now starts with no problem. I'm going to add some CD-2. I was about to go on a trip and wonder if the problem will reoccur? Any advise other than adding CD-2 and hope the problem does not happen again?

Thanks
Joe
Joe, number one go on your trip after you do the CD-2 Cleanse. If for some reason your sprag will not free up it is very easy to bump start the LT. Second gear dump the clutch and your off.
My sprag started to act up at 50,000 miles. I have noticed in extreme hot weather conditions my sprag clutch seemed to stick more often. I perform the CD-2 treatment every 12000 miles or prior every second oil change. I now have 94,000 miles on my 02 LT.

Pete Murray
IBA # 359 and
2014 RT
1973 R75/5
2002 LT 171 K Gone
2008 FJR 36 K Gone
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post #13 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2006, 1:46 pm
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When they did my clutch, they also pulled the starter and cleaned everything. The mechanic charged an extra 1/2 hour for that. They said everything looked fine after 86K miles and that the starter brushes only showed slight wear. I figure when you start the bike maybe once every 240 miles, then the starter should be in great shape.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #14 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2006, 1:56 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
When they did my clutch, they also pulled the starter and cleaned everything. The mechanic charged an extra 1/2 hour for that. They said everything looked fine after 86K miles and that the starter brushes only showed slight wear. I figure when you start the bike maybe once every 240 miles, then the starter should be in great shape.
Unfortunately, pulling the starter gets you nowhere near the sprag clutch. It is between the engine block and intermediate housing, on the other side of the bike from the starter, in front of the alternator.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #15 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2006, 2:50 pm
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Maybe that's why they looked at me funny when I said Sprag Clutch. Oh well, I thought it might be too good to be true. The bike still starts fine, but I guess I'll pick up some CD-2 just in case.

And maybe a bottle of fuel injector cleaner as well. Got any suggestions for that?

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #16 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2006, 6:16 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Maybe that's why they looked at me funny when I said Sprag Clutch. Oh well, I thought it might be too good to be true. The bike still starts fine, but I guess I'll pick up some CD-2 just in case.

And maybe a bottle of fuel injector cleaner as well. Got any suggestions for that?
Yep, mention sprag clutch to a BMW mechanic, and they will likely run away screaming.

Injector cleaners are probably like starting an oil thread.

There are many fuel tank additives available for a few bucks a bottle, but these are pretty light duty cleaners, and will help basically help keep injector passages that are not very dirty open longer.

REAL injector cleaners are considerably more expensive, and require some care, equipment, and knowledge to use. These are either high pressure cans containing fuel and concentrated cleaner, used with regulators and hoses to feed the injector rail instead of the vehicle's fuel pump, and the engine run on that for 15-30 minutes. There are also "cannister" systems that use a refillable cannister that is pressurized with regulated compressed air to the correct rail pressure, and the engine run on that.

Putting the light duty cleaners in the fuel every so often certainly cannot hurt, I do that occasionally on all my vehicles. Not sure just how much they really help though, since most gasoline also has some amount of fuel system cleaner in it.

I am having a little problem with a rather persistent code on my 740, "Off Idle fuel mixture control, cyls 1-4", which I am seriously considering getting one of the expensive systems to try out on it. I cannot find anything else wrong, so it may be an injector sticking or leaking. The car runs great, and the plugs look great, no difference in any of them, so I don't think it is serious enough to worry too much about. I replaced the front two oxygen sensors, guess I will now replace the rear two, as they are also now throwing an occasional code. They are suggested as 100,000 mile replacements, and I have over 96K on it. Kinda expensive car to keep up, FOUR oxygen sensors, and TWO catalytic converters. Also, 8 quarts of synthetic oil and a $10 filter means $60 oil changes. Kinda like I felt about the LT though, it is worth it.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #17 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2006, 6:22 pm
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I feel your pain. An oil change on a 911 Porsche takes 11 quarts of oil. I'm not even going to discuss the Dodge Cummins TD....



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post #18 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2006, 7:59 pm
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Many people rave about Seafoam. I used it once a few years ago and it seemed to work pretty well. It can also be added to the fuel tank and run through the injectors that way.

http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUpTechGas.htm

If you do a google search you will find a ton of information about Seafoam. It is available at Autozone and I'm sure other parts stores as well.

Good Luck,
Kevin

1999 K1200LT, patiently waiting for a new model.
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post #19 of 21 Old Sep 14th, 2006, 9:26 pm
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There is another group of motorcycles that have this same problem with their starter sprag clutches. The older 1000 and 1100 goldwings did this. I have personally used their recommended solution on my classic 82 aspencade. The product is Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO). This was added to the engine oil at a 2oz per quart of oil. Ran the bike for about 100 miles and did the normal oil change as soon as the problem went away. Bike had about 40k on it then and the problem has not been back. Just another idea...

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post #20 of 21 Old Dec 15th, 2006, 8:23 am
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Smile stuck sprag clutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
No other advice. If the CD-2 loosens and disperses the buildup of deposits on the sprag cage it could last the life of the bike with no further problems. When I removed mine, just touching the sprags loosened them, and I could have cleaned the assembly well and re-installed it. No wear to speak of was evident, just a little varnish buildup. I had already purchased the new sprag cage assembly, so installed it.
THANK YOU, Super Dave Shealey!

Yesterday my sprag stuck for the first time. The bike has about 70,000 miles. After reading all your post on the subject, mainly the post quoted above, and looking at the parts breakdown. Rocking the bike back and forth in gear didn't work. I thought what if I give the case a good whack with a hammer just above the right foot peg. IT WORKED! so THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

1999 K1200LT Rat Bike Sold
2000 K1200LT Black Bike SOLD
2003 K1200RS Alpine White and Blue SOLD
2002 R1150GS sold
2008 "smart"
2001 K1200LT current project, AKA M1.2, AKA Horten 229
2002 F650GS It's runnin y'all
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post #21 of 21 Old Dec 15th, 2006, 9:50 am
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I once did a starter sprag clutch job on a friends K75RT,
If I had know what I was getting myself into I would have
(like Dave said) ran like hell.
Tried the CD-2 treatment first and it didn't work, just to varnished up.
The rider swore by Castrol oil, at the risk of starting another oil thread,
I wonder, here it goes.............................
which oil do you guys that have had these problems use?
And do you think it may be a relative issue?


Hans
St. Petersburg FL

2002 K1200LTE
"Silver Buffalo" Totaled 5/06
2005 LT
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