Gold Wing riders are better... - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 3:20 pm Thread Starter
 
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Gold Wing riders are better...

...organized than we are.

My October MCN issue(pg 6) talks about a class action lawsuit against Honda for the same "wobble" that we experience on our LT's. Riders got fed up with Honda replying to customer concerns, stating that the wobble was a characteristic and not a defect of the GL. Another response was, "Keep both hands on the handlebars, two handlebars -- use two hands."

Interesting read. I thought I'd pass it along. We must have some lawyer-types on this board
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post #2 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 4:09 pm
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Lightbulb Gold Wing...Wobble

Or we could go here and sign up with these guys...but the question is: Does the wobble represent an undesirable characteristic of motorcycles or lawyers?

http://www.harleywobble.com/

Rick

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post #3 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 6:12 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niobium
Or we could go here and sign up with these guys...but the question is: Does the wobble represent an undesirable characteristic of motorcycles or lawyers?

http://www.harleywobble.com/
Unfortunately, if the Wingers win, it's gonna impact every two-wheel manufacturer on the planet. Not too smart of their lawyer group, to keep the lawsuit isolated to one model of one brand, when wobbling is not model specific in occurence. Wish someone smarter than me would organize a library/inventory of wobbling occurences tied to model/brand - it's just not a unique thang to Gold Wings. Makes ya wonder why someone hasn't gone after the bikes that have had full-on tank slappers - those can result in some hairy outcomes and from what I've seen, doesn't make any difference whether you have both hands on the grips or not! Manufacturer's fault - I don't think so.

I think wobbling is the result of the physics of two-wheel conveyances - bicycles do it; Big Wheels do it; Razer scooters do it; and unless I'm not understanding the causative basis of the Wingers' lawsuit, Toad has done it --- oncet.

However, not wishing to start a war here - just my opinion that in a courtroom scenario, this one is lost before the jury is seated, or the judge is robed.
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post #4 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 6:50 pm
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Must be a Honda thing. Both my 1000 Hurricanes would be as stable as can be, but just let go of those handles, and it would shake it's head like a horse on steriods. I guess it was a good thing, because it cured me of those "look Ma, no hands (or look Pa, no teeth)" behaviour.

Current rides:
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Past rides:
97 Kawasaki ZX11(bought new in 1997, sadly sold in September 2014)
89 Honda Hurricane (sold)
88 Honda Hurricane (traded on an SUV)
86 Kawasaki 1000R (stolen but recovered)
84 Honda 750F (traded on 1000R)
81 Suzuki GSX1100 (sold)
78 Suzuki GS750 (traded on GSX1100)
74 Yamaha RD50 (sold)
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post #5 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 6:53 pm
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I always thought "wobble" was the result of an agressive rake and trail that is the reason we get such great handling.

Personally ... I'll keep my hands on the bars at 40-45 and enjoy the great handling.
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post #6 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 7:03 pm
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<"wobble" that we experience on our LT's>

"Speak for yourself pale face."

No wobble here.

Bob
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post #7 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 7:04 pm
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Grab Them Bars.....quick!!!

Wow...what a scare! My wife and I are riding and I simply turned loose of the bars for 2-4 seconds to scratch an itch on my back and WOW...TANK SLAPPER!!! (Almost pooped my pants!)

Just like everyone is reporting...about 40-45 miles an hour and it went into a crazy tank slapper. I grabbed those bars so quick!!! My wife was terrified and I wasn't much better. I have ridden for many years and NEVER experienced anything like that.

I have the 020's on and about 4k on the front tire. It is beginning to cup fairly well...but, MY GOSH that was scary. I think I'll replace the tire just to make sure. I know...I know...don't turn loose of the handlebars, but this sort of thing isn't normal. But, I'll betcha one thing...you couldn't pay me to turn loose of those bars now!!

Jack Homesley
Cornelius, NC USA
'06 Goldwing - "The Black Pearl"
Too many others to list...


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post #8 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 7:08 pm
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Thumbs down Goldwing riders are better

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzirider
...organized -------
In their whining perhaps.
If the were organized in their approach they would go after the frame problem with a class action safety oriented suit. Something specific to the wing THAT HAS CAUSED INJURIES.

ed early
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post #9 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 8:12 pm Thread Starter
 
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"The Ultimate Wobble Machine."
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post #10 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 8:42 pm
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This is why I'm no longer riding HD. I proved the defect and well, the rest is "history".

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post #11 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 9:01 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BecketMa
<"wobble" that we experience on our LT's>

"Speak for yourself pale face."

No wobble here.

Bob
Me either. 120,000 miles on two LTs, even tried to make one wobble once as an experiment, could not get it to.

There is something a little different on a SMALL percentage of LTs which will allow the wobble to start, but not on the great majority of them.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

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post #12 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 9:02 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
Wow...what a scare! My wife and I are riding and I simply turned loose of the bars for 2-4 seconds to scratch an itch on my back and WOW...TANK SLAPPER!!! (Almost pooped my pants!)

Just like everyone is reporting...about 40-45 miles an hour and it went into a crazy tank slapper. I grabbed those bars so quick!!! My wife was terrified and I wasn't much better. I have ridden for many years and NEVER experienced anything like that.
It's a "wobble" . . . or a "frontend shake". But it sure the heck is NOT a "TANK SLAPPER". Tank Slappers are not recoverable by merely placing a hand on one of the grips.

Oh I'm not saying you didn't get scared. But now that you know it can happen, stopping it will not be that big of a deal.

FWIW, my '02 did it one time, and one time ONLY. I replaced the rear tire and it never happened again.
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post #13 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 9:07 pm
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Straight and true

Greetings all.

My '99 LT has impecable road manners and has never shown any signs of a desire to wobble at any speed inspite of my quite worn front BT020. Perhaps it really is a problem with a small minority of some later model LT's.

Still, it shouldn't be tolerated in this day and age of R&D and the money spent on development.

Could you imagine the outcry if any model car made in the 21st century had this problem? There would be a public lynching.

Kindest regards to all
Paul Harrington
AU.

1999 K1200LT Champagne "Bismarck"
1983 base K100 "Bavarian Belle"
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post #14 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 9:35 pm
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I haven't experienced a wobble yet on the LT, but it's a known fact in the Concours World that head shake during deceleration is a good indication of loose steering head bearings. Once tightened correctly, the Concours is extremely stable at all speeds. I don't know if the LT is like this or not.


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post #15 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 9:58 pm
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I tried many times to see if my '99 would do it and for a long time I couldn't get it to happen. I finally got it going recently with both tires extremely worn. Even with it shaking it felt stable, nothing like when my Triumph Speed Triple did a full blown, bucking bronco, tank slapper on a busy freeway with no warning or obvious cause. I will try again after I replace the rear tire (just did the front). In any case I'm not worried, it took a lot of effort to get it to shake and it remained controllable.
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post #16 of 29 Old Sep 11th, 2006, 10:39 pm
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Yup.. replaced front BT020, properly balanced it... properly inflated it.. perfect handling.

...............
J.M.J...
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post #17 of 29 Old Sep 12th, 2006, 12:00 am
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See previous thread about how bikes are inherently unstable. The put the lawyers down and back away slowly.

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post #18 of 29 Old Sep 12th, 2006, 7:07 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrowbmw
Greetings all.

My '99 LT has impecable road manners and has never shown any signs of a desire to wobble at any speed inspite of my quite worn front BT020. Perhaps it really is a problem with a small minority of some later model LT's.

Still, it shouldn't be tolerated in this day and age of R&D and the money spent on development.

Could you imagine the outcry if any model car made in the 21st century had this problem? There would be a public lynching.

Kindest regards to all
Paul Harrington
AU.
I guess it's only a "problem" if you define owner stupidity as a manufacturer defect. Bikes aren't meant to be ridden no-handed, neither are cars.

When I worked as a tech for Chevy, I had to look at a custom van that had been involved in a crash. Owner claimed the cruise control malfunctioned, causing the accident. I couldn't find a thing wrong with the system, and was called into court to testify. When asked on the stand to describe how the accident occurred, the owner stated that he had set the cruise control, and then went to the back of the van to get a cold drink from the cooler. That's when the van hit the other cars. We all had a good laugh for about a minute, and then the judge threw the case out, stating that the manufacturer had no control over the stupidity of the driver.
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post #19 of 29 Old Sep 12th, 2006, 7:09 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjordans2000
I tried many times to see if my '99 would do it and for a long time I couldn't get it to happen.
Before I bought my '99 I tested an '06 at Americade this past June. Comming off the expressway back to Roaring Brook Ranch, I let go of the bars and she started to wobble. I told the BMW Reps about it and they said that it must have been the road conditions. (I did the same thing with a Wing that I test drove in the same location and nothing happened.)

However, I too have tried many times to make my '99 wobble. Just won't do it. Instead, I get o2 sensor and clutch failures! But it's still the best ride I've ever owned!

Dave
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post #20 of 29 Old Sep 12th, 2006, 7:43 am
 
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Nor on mine. Front wheel is as steady as a rock regardless of the speed
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post #21 of 29 Old Sep 12th, 2006, 7:56 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Unfortunately, if the Wingers win, it's gonna impact every two-wheel manufacturer on the planet. Not too smart of their lawyer group, to keep the lawsuit isolated to one model of one brand, when wobbling is not model specific in occurence. Wish someone smarter than me would organize a library/inventory of wobbling occurences tied to model/brand - it's just not a unique thang to Gold Wings. Makes ya wonder why someone hasn't gone after the bikes that have had full-on tank slappers - those can result in some hairy outcomes and from what I've seen, doesn't make any difference whether you have both hands on the grips or not! Manufacturer's fault - I don't think so.

They did go after HD, but there were injuries a reason for lawyers to go after hem, you must have injury to win.

They settled with a nondisclosure statement or some crap like that.
with HD it was the manufactures fault.

Tom

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post #22 of 29 Old Sep 12th, 2006, 8:05 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
It's a "wobble" . . . or a "frontend shake". But it sure the heck is NOT a "TANK SLAPPER". Tank Slappers are not recoverable by merely placing a hand on one of the grips.

man you are NOT kidding there, recovering from a TANK slapper is almost a miracle from god in itself, and bet could not be done without him on a LT it is just way to heavy to get the front end up and stop the osscilation.

I caught one one time on my '65 and did not go down, how - I have no idea. I hit the throttle as hard as it would go (which on a stock 65 wasn't much)

I was in the left lane passing a motorhome at the time, I leaned full right to head for the side of the highway cause I knew for sure I was going down. I was hoping to make it off the interstate before I actually hit the pavement!

but about the time I hit the shoulder it just stopped! then damn near wrecked the bike trying to get it back on the highway before I actually did hit the grass! man I pulled over shaking my arse off!
The only thing I can figure is I hit the diffference in height of the shoulder and highway at full throttle at a angle and something stopped it, maybe the front tire was light enough at that point? seriously though! god reached down and stopped it! well heck he rides a Panhead!

It was not skill for sure, all I could do was lean nothing I did to the handle bars made one bit of difference!

Tom

Tom

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post #23 of 29 Old Sep 12th, 2006, 8:45 am
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Rest in Peace, Indian Larry

No wobbler here, either.

Under power with cruise on, I get no head shake at any speed. The bike is rock solid.

Still, my policy is as at least one hand on the bars at all times (I haven't written it down, but that is it).

I mean, Hey! We aren't riding in a circus out there...it may be a madhouse, but not a circus.

Indian Larry rode the highways like he was in a circus. Rest in Peace.

Wing riders in my neck of the woods are nuts with hands-free riding stories. One owner told me he rode all the way from Melbourne to Titusville, FL (about 40 miles) on US1 without ever touching the handlebars.

"Wow, all 500 traffic lights were green! How lucky is that?" I asked.
"Well, you know what I mean," he said.
He forgot to start his story with "and this is no chit".

My front end will go unstable when decelerating somewhere around 35 mph if I take my hands off of the bars. I tried it once on an I-95 off ramp just to see what other owners were talking about, otherwise I never would have. The shake started slow but quickly accelerated. I have no doubt that it would have led to a crash if I had let it.

BTW, this isn't a defect, just a fact of life.
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post #24 of 29 Old Sep 12th, 2006, 9:48 am
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Big Hairy Wobble

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
It's a "wobble" . . . or a "frontend shake". But it sure the heck is NOT a "TANK SLAPPER". Tank Slappers are not recoverable by merely placing a hand on one of the grips.

Oh I'm not saying you didn't get scared. But now that you know it can happen, stopping it will not be that big of a deal.

FWIW, my '02 did it one time, and one time ONLY. I replaced the rear tire and it never happened again.
with the Excedras and front pressure at 36.
Right after I 1st got the bike.
As close to a slapper on this heavy beast as I wish to see.
low miles on the bike when I got it.
So I don't think a worn dampener played a role.
It will wobble with the Avon @ 42 though not as aggressively nor as quickly.
Worse on my bike @ about 45 in 5th slowly decelerating.
Seems to be not as bad with more rapid deceleration, as in 4th or 3rd.

ed early
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post #25 of 29 Old Sep 12th, 2006, 2:39 pm
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Since I changed my worn down 020 front and replaced it with a new 880 no more wobble with hands off as before .........

SO that tells me it was the worn tire...........

47+ Yrs Daily Motorcycle Street riding for Therapy

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post #26 of 29 Old Sep 13th, 2006, 6:41 pm
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Gold Wing...Wobble

My 05 has the wobble, decelerating through the mid 40's with hands off the bars. I discovered it accidentally around 6-7000 miles into the original tires when I tried to zip up a jacket. I replaced the original 880's with another set at 11.6K, and the new set does it too. Just don't ride hands-off.

When I was around 12 or 13 an uncle gave me an old Murray bicycle (1960's vintage) that was big, heavy, and had a real springer front end like a Harley. If you were going too fast, such as a long downhill and hit a bump, it would sometimes go into a tank-slapper that would literally toss you off the bicycle. After I got knocked cold one time, my father made it disappear and bought me one of them Schwinn Sting Ray customs.

Rick

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post #27 of 29 Old Sep 24th, 2006, 6:47 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Unfortunately, if the Wingers win, it's gonna impact every two-wheel manufacturer on the planet. Not too smart of their lawyer group, to keep the lawsuit isolated to one model of one brand, when wobbling is not model specific in occurence. Wish someone smarter than me would organize a library/inventory of wobbling occurences tied to model/brand - it's just not a unique thang to Gold Wings. Makes ya wonder why someone hasn't gone after the bikes that have had full-on tank slappers - those can result in some hairy outcomes and from what I've seen, doesn't make any difference whether you have both hands on the grips or not! Manufacturer's fault - I don't think so.

I think wobbling is the result of the physics of two-wheel conveyances - bicycles do it; Big Wheels do it; Razer scooters do it; and unless I'm not understanding the causative basis of the Wingers' lawsuit, Toad has done it --- oncet.

However, not wishing to start a war here - just my opinion that in a courtroom scenario, this one is lost before the jury is seated, or the judge is robed.

Hmmm... BIG WHEELS DO IT? Better go out in da garage and check mine...sure don't remember it but I haven't had it goin that fast in awhile!!!
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post #28 of 29 Old Sep 24th, 2006, 7:38 pm
 
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wobble

I have rode several times with no hands - probably a stupid thing to do but had to see how stable the bike really was. Never had any probelem with a wobble at any speed. I don't think I would try it again nor would I recommend that anyone ride without both hands on the grips - they are there for a reason.
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post #29 of 29 Old Sep 25th, 2006, 7:28 am
 
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Wobble!

Hey guys. I am been a very silent member of this esteemed forum but I have decided to speak out a little.

I have done a little research on the bike and noted that the wobble happens most when at high rpm and decelerating. didn't really get to try the whole exelerating because well- moving on.
In a fairly casual pace without high rpms the bike won't wobble. so the key word is keep the hands on the wheel - especially when decelerating.
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