Gear shifting points revisited - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 21 Old Sep 6th, 2006, 6:25 pm Thread Starter
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Gear shifting points revisited

Just read all entries to a thread on this subject from approx 60 days ago.

Virtually all posts had to do with when to upshift, which brings me to the reason for this post. Downshifting into first gear..............

Now I learned to ride way back in the 60's when I had never heard of a fully synchronized gear box. The wisdom of the day was to shift into first below 5mph as the bike came to a stop. I have stayed with that wisdom all these years and normally I have enough torque in second to pull out of a curve handily so I have never really considered the need to shift into first at higher speed.

UNTIL.......North Carolina last week. Perhaps it was my wornout shocks causing me to slow so much in second in tight turns, but there were a few times I was slow enough in 2nd that I really needed to go to 1st at say 15 or 20 mph--At least it felt that way to me. With today's fully synchronized gear boxes, is this OK or damaging to the tranny?

Other than first gear, I feel free to shift up or down at will as long as I will not redline a gear in the process.

Boy it would be great to go to first just like any other gear!

And speaking of exceeding redline......I keep reading of a rev limiter on the LT. If I have one it is set above redline or my tach is off.......Found myself doing approx 8300 in second gear on my Hwy 25 ride. Never felt the bike do anything but pull like hell.

Comments please.

Tom

Tom

2003 R1150RT, Black Beauty--this is one sexy bike!
1999 R1100GSA, Does everything well, what else can one say?
1992 K75SA, If this engine had been 4-valve instead of 2, it would be the smoothest BMW ever built!
1978 R100S, my first and favorite BMW.
1976 R75/6, A 30 year old gentlemen I still love to take out for a Sunday ride.
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post #2 of 21 Old Sep 6th, 2006, 7:48 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwrubbercow
Just read all entries to a thread on this subject from approx 60 days ago.

Virtually all posts had to do with when to upshift, which brings me to the reason for this post. Downshifting into first gear..............

Now I learned to ride way back in the 60's when I had never heard of a fully synchronized gear box. The wisdom of the day was to shift into first below 5mph as the bike came to a stop. I have stayed with that wisdom all these years and normally I have enough torque in second to pull out of a curve handily so I have never really considered the need to shift into first at higher speed.

UNTIL.......North Carolina last week. Perhaps it was my wornout shocks causing me to slow so much in second in tight turns, but there were a few times I was slow enough in 2nd that I really needed to go to 1st at say 15 or 20 mph--At least it felt that way to me. With today's fully synchronized gear boxes, is this OK or damaging to the tranny?

Other than first gear, I feel free to shift up or down at will as long as I will not redline a gear in the process.

Boy it would be great to go to first just like any other gear!

And speaking of exceeding redline......I keep reading of a rev limiter on the LT. If I have one it is set above redline or my tach is off.......Found myself doing approx 8300 in second gear on my Hwy 25 ride. Never felt the bike do anything but pull like hell.

Comments please.

Tom
You can downshift at any speed that will not over-rev the engine. It shifts easier when the engine speed is reasonably matched to the bikes speed for the gear going to, but not necessary.

There are no syncronizers in the LT transmission, so it is not a synchronized box, neither are most motorcycle transmissions.

These transmissions, unlike automobile straight drives, are dog-shift units, where sliding collars with "dogs", or protrusions on them, engage in complementary slots in the gears. In some the gears themselves are the sliding units. That is why they are "clunky", because the mismatched speeds of the dogs and slots make a solid "clunk" as they engage.

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post #3 of 21 Old Sep 6th, 2006, 8:06 pm
 
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I wouldn't hesitate down-shifting into 1st at anything below 40 mph. Just remember that you need to easy out on that clutch. It's easy to lock up that rear tire when you start getting into aggressive engine breaking. But isn't that really the fun of it?
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post #4 of 21 Old Sep 6th, 2006, 8:19 pm Thread Starter
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That's great news to me! Now how about an answer as to why my engine allowed me to exceed 8K RPM.Any ideas??


Comments from others too?

Thanks guys,

Tom

Tom

2003 R1150RT, Black Beauty--this is one sexy bike!
1999 R1100GSA, Does everything well, what else can one say?
1992 K75SA, If this engine had been 4-valve instead of 2, it would be the smoothest BMW ever built!
1978 R100S, my first and favorite BMW.
1976 R75/6, A 30 year old gentlemen I still love to take out for a Sunday ride.
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post #5 of 21 Old Sep 6th, 2006, 8:34 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwrubbercow
That's great news to me! Now how about an answer as to why my engine allowed me to exceed 8K RPM.Any ideas??


Comments from others too?

Thanks guys,

Tom
Hi, Tom - book states max. engine speed in rpm's is 8,500.
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post #6 of 21 Old Sep 6th, 2006, 8:46 pm
 
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Since I started the thread about shifting points (didn't think I had my LT 60 day) I'd thought it fitting to report back.

Have found myself "naturally" shifting around the 4000-4500 rpm range, sometimes higher.

I used the word naturally, because it just seems the bike likes living in that rpm range. It's almost second nature now.

There were a few times where I found myself just listening to the power of the engine as I was moving through the gears, and glancing down at the tach I saw 5500 rpm. It was fun!

Thanks to all, once again, for the great advice. I'm becoming more accustomed to my baby, and the feeling/style of riding a HD Ultra-Classic, are fading away.

Man, I love this bike
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post #7 of 21 Old Sep 6th, 2006, 8:50 pm
 
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post #8 of 21 Old Sep 6th, 2006, 10:08 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Hi, Tom - book states max. engine speed in rpm's is 8,500.

Thanks Dick, Guess that might explain it.......

Didn't look it up, seem to remember the red line on my tach at 8K but I am probably wrong.

Tom

Tom

2003 R1150RT, Black Beauty--this is one sexy bike!
1999 R1100GSA, Does everything well, what else can one say?
1992 K75SA, If this engine had been 4-valve instead of 2, it would be the smoothest BMW ever built!
1978 R100S, my first and favorite BMW.
1976 R75/6, A 30 year old gentlemen I still love to take out for a Sunday ride.
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post #9 of 21 Old Sep 6th, 2006, 10:16 pm
 
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You'll know it when you hit the rev limiter...the LT dies momentarily. Best thing is to shift at 8K or sooner and don't let it happen. It's a rather helpless feeling when it occurs. Not like the Jap sportbikes that just tend to keep "bapping against it".
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post #10 of 21 Old Sep 6th, 2006, 10:25 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefeb
Since I started the thread about shifting points (didn't think I had my LT 60 day) I'd thought it fitting to report back.

Have found myself "naturally" shifting around the 4000-4500 rpm range, sometimes higher.

I used the word naturally, because it just seems the bike likes living in that rpm range. It's almost second nature now.

There were a few times where I found myself just listening to the power of the engine as I was moving through the gears, and glancing down at the tach I saw 5500 rpm. It was fun!

Thanks to all, once again, for the great advice. I'm becoming more accustomed to my baby, and the feeling/style of riding a HD Ultra-Classic, are fading away.

Man, I love this bike
Now that you are getting used to the low end of the power band, start experimenting with the REAL fun area, between 5500 and 7500. If you think the power is fun before 5500, just wait for the big smile on your face when you REALLY forget about the Harley. It does take some time to fully get over the Harley driven self limitations.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #11 of 21 Old Sep 6th, 2006, 10:30 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
You'll know it when you hit the rev limiter...the LT dies momentarily. Best thing is to shift at 8K or sooner and don't let it happen. It's a rather helpless feeling when it occurs. Not like the Jap sportbikes that just tend to keep "bapping against it".
Yea, I do know what you mean. There is a limiter on my R1100GS and I have hit it several times. First time was rather suprising to say the least. The engine stops pulling so fast that I thought it had quit.

Tom

2003 R1150RT, Black Beauty--this is one sexy bike!
1999 R1100GSA, Does everything well, what else can one say?
1992 K75SA, If this engine had been 4-valve instead of 2, it would be the smoothest BMW ever built!
1978 R100S, my first and favorite BMW.
1976 R75/6, A 30 year old gentlemen I still love to take out for a Sunday ride.
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post #12 of 21 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 5:30 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
Now that you are getting used to the low end of the power band, start experimenting with the REAL fun area, between 5500 and 7500. If you think the power is fun before 5500, just wait for the big smile on your face when you REALLY forget about the Harley. It does take some time to fully get over the Harley driven self limitations.
Ya mean there's more fun to be had
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post #13 of 21 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 8:52 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
You'll know it when you hit the rev limiter...the LT dies momentarily. Best thing is to shift at 8K or sooner and don't let it happen. It's a rather helpless feeling when it occurs. Not like the Jap sportbikes that just tend to keep "bapping against it".
Joe, for what it is worth my 2002 K1200LTC does not have a rev limiter. I can run right through to 9000rpm (didn't mean to). It is my understanding that none of the K12's are equipped with a rev limiter.

Jamie
'02 K1200LTC
'82 R100RT
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post #14 of 21 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 9:02 am
 
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Joe, for what it is worth my 2002 K1200LTC does not have a rev limiter. I can run right through to 9000rpm (didn't mean to). It is my understanding that none of the K12's are equipped with a rev limiter.
My '02 cuts out at about 8600-8700. In fact, I don't know of a bike manufactured since the early 80s that doesn't have a rev limiter.
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post #15 of 21 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 9:52 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
My '02 cuts out at about 8600-8700. In fact, I don't know of a bike manufactured since the early 80s that doesn't have a rev limiter.
I hear Harley has one on their non V-Rod bikes, but no one has ever found at what RPM it activates.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #16 of 21 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 11:11 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
I hear Harley has one on their non V-Rod bikes, but no one has ever found at what RPM it activates.
I checked with one of the engineers here at H-D - he said he believes it's on all but police bikes; he's going to follow up with the ECM engineer to verify RPM.
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post #17 of 21 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 12:29 pm
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You must be lucky Jamie, cause Red Rover hits the rev limiter in the 8500 to 8700 range.

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post #18 of 21 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 4:46 pm
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My '05 hits the limiter at 8500 rpm, pulling all the way to the stop. -Chuck-
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post #19 of 21 Old Sep 7th, 2006, 5:44 pm
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I've hit the rev limiter on my 02 a couple of times. Wasn't paying too much attention to the tach to tell you where it occurred at, was a little more worried about getting it pulling again to get around traffic.

Joel
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post #20 of 21 Old Jul 9th, 2007, 11:32 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwrubbercow
Just read all entries to a thread on this subject from approx 60 days ago.

Virtually all posts had to do with when to upshift, which brings me to the reason for this post. Downshifting into first gear..............

Now I learned to ride way back in the 60's when I had never heard of a fully synchronized gear box. The wisdom of the day was to shift into first below 5mph as the bike came to a stop. I have stayed with that wisdom all these years and normally I have enough torque in second to pull out of a curve handily so I have never really considered the need to shift into first at higher speed.

UNTIL.......North Carolina last week. Perhaps it was my wornout shocks causing me to slow so much in second in tight turns, but there were a few times I was slow enough in 2nd that I really needed to go to 1st at say 15 or 20 mph--At least it felt that way to me. With today's fully synchronized gear boxes, is this OK or damaging to the tranny?

Other than first gear, I feel free to shift up or down at will as long as I will not redline a gear in the process.

Boy it would be great to go to first just like any other gear!

And speaking of exceeding redline......I keep reading of a rev limiter on the LT. If I have one it is set above redline or my tach is off.......Found myself doing approx 8300 in second gear on my Hwy 25 ride. Never felt the bike do anything but pull like hell.

Comments please.

Tom
This is a slightly different topic on shiftiing. I wonder how many have been taught as I was to hold the shift, i.e. keep the pressure on the upshift until y ou have released the clutch? It helps avoid missed shifts.

Greg
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post #21 of 21 Old Jul 10th, 2007, 12:34 am
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After riding vintage Moto Guzzis for 20 years it's a hard habit to break. And everyone thinks BMW makes a clunky transmission..

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