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-   -   Metzeler ME888 (https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/133138-metzeler-me888.html)

maxrider66 Jul 7th, 2015 4:53 pm

Metzeler ME888
 
Has anyone had any issues with the ME888 rubbing the swingarm?
I just installed an ME888 after using ME880s with no problems. 1/4" of the tread on the right side is rubbing the swingarm of my 2001 LT.

Anyone have a solution? I was thinking of doubling up on the steel spacer between the wheel and the hub.

Axle Jul 7th, 2015 6:25 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
yes there have been reports of this, fixes are varied from extra spacer to grinding off the edge. try the search feature

want2tour Jul 7th, 2015 10:20 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxrider66 (Post 1350314)
Has anyone had any issues with the ME888 rubbing the swingarm?
I just installed an ME888 after using ME880s with no problems. 1/4" of the tread on the right side is rubbing the swingarm of my 2001 LT.

Anyone have a solution? I was thinking of doubling up on the steel spacer between the wheel and the hub.

Regarding the Metzler 888; on my '05 KLT, I just replaced my tires & went from using Bridgestones to Metzlers. Not being able to source 880's for the rear, I used the 888. The tire, though the same metric size does run about 1/4" wider (verified with large calipers)than the Bridgestone rear when inflated.

After the Metzler 888 was on the bike, I had only 2.1 mm of gap between the tire & the shaft housing (feeler gauges). A little too close for comfort. I decided to add a 2nd wheel spacer. I was a little concerned about whether a 2mm spacer added would really give me 2mm of extra clearance, as the shaft housing runs diagonal.

Sure enough, after installing the 2nd 2mm spacer, I find that now the clearance is 3mm. So, it appears that for each 2mm spacer you add, the clearance will only change by 1mm.
So for that tire, if you want a 4mm clearance, you'd have to add two spacers, and so on.
I decided early on that an extra spacer was a much easier fix than un-mounting & returning the tire & ordering a different tire.
I like the tire well enough, but don't have enough miles to give proper rating.

I'll just continue to include tire-rubbing inspections in my walk-around inspections. Also will re-torque the lugs periodically, as I feel that the more spacers you use, the more likely you could have expansion/contraction based movement of the lugs after several cycles of riding & cooling.
To try to prove this therory;
50 miles after installation, I re-torqued the lugs and observed noticable movement untill click on three lugs.
After a subsequent 700 mile ride at 90 degrees farenheit, I re-torqued and had only one lug move a tad until click. Am planning to re-torque between multi-thousand mile rides at this point, of which I have several coming up in rapid succession between now and October.

I've been running the psi on rear at 48 and watching the right side outer edge for signs of rubbing. So far so good.
To be clear, a single added spacer has given enough clearance to have no rubbing at this point

Bob

tgiff101 Jul 18th, 2015 12:39 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
I have the same issue with the ME888 rubbing. Where did you buy the spacers? BMW dealer or other?

saddleman Jul 18th, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tgiff101 (Post 1359130)
I have the same issue with the ME888 rubbing. Where did you buy the spacers? BMW dealer or other?

I have many spacers. I can ship one for $6.

MikeERideWNC Jul 18th, 2015 2:17 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tgiff101 (Post 1359130)
Where did you buy the spacers? BMW dealer or other?

+1 and what was the cost of the spacer?
BikeBandit is 22.17 each. That hurts.

I would like to have some on the shelf.



Thanks.

MikeERideWNC Jul 24th, 2015 5:29 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeERideWNC (Post 1359194)
+1 and what was the cost of the spacer?
BikeBandit is 22.17 each. That hurts.

I would like to have some on the shelf.



Thanks.



I did a little research since want2tour is never coming back to this thread.

The part number is: 36 31 1 451 791
The price seems to be steady at 22.17 at both Bike Bandit and the BMW catalog.
I was hoping to find it a bit cheaper so I can keep them on the shelf for other BMW owners.

Voyager Jul 24th, 2015 6:32 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeERideWNC (Post 1363802)
I did a little research since want2tour is never coming back to this thread.

The part number is: 36 31 1 451 791
The price seems to be steady at 22.17 at both Bike Bandit and the BMW catalog.
I was hoping to find it a bit cheaper so I can keep them on the shelf for other BMW owners.

What part of Saddleman's offer to ship one for $6 didn't you understand?
:rotf:

MikeERideWNC Jul 24th, 2015 6:36 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
I missed that post.

Voyager Jul 24th, 2015 6:45 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeERideWNC (Post 1363834)
I missed that post.

I was thinking that might be the case. It sure how many he is willing to part with or how many you want, but doesn't hurt to PM him. If you are making enough of them, say 20 or more, you might get a local machine shop to make them. However, probably hard to get under $20 each.

MikeERideWNC Jul 24th, 2015 8:46 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
My riding buddy and his girlfriend own an awesome machining shop with some of the latest CNC machines. He has about fifteen of them now all are automated. He just needs laborers to feed them aluminum stock.
At Christmas dinner about five years ago I gave him some cones for my Snap-On balancer for BMW and Ducati single sided swing arms and ask him to make me a few to sell.
The ones I gave him to copy are still on his desk...

So if Saddleman gets back to me his 6.00 deal will be worth it and I will past that savings on to other LT owners.
I ask him for five.

want2tour Jul 27th, 2015 10:13 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Never coming back?? Heck, I was just out riding. Just got back from the MOA Billings rally. Muy Bueno Fun. Did the beartooth on consecutive days & racked up 2k miles. In 5 days will leave for a 10 day 4000 mile sturgis ride.

Bob

saddleman Jul 27th, 2015 5:26 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by saddleman (Post 1359186)
I have many spacers. I can ship one for $6.

I am all out of spacers now.

nikosK1200LT Apr 19th, 2019 6:35 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
2 Attachment(s)
Gentlemen, I don't know what you were talking about in this thread back in 2015. A week ago my only option was the ME888. The BMW Service shop that I bought it told me: "we will install it, if it gives you the slightest problem we will take it back and order you any tire you want". So they did. I was overlooking all the procedure. They did not do anything but use the one and only spacer that came with my bike. See the space I have in the photos. It's almost 15mm tire to drive housing wall.
The BMW specialist there told me by word: "one day a very urgent Customer wanted an rear tire and the only one I had available was a 190/70 - 17. I put it in and there was enough room for the tire to run free".

I wonder, why did US have such a problem on the 888. Is there any difference between the US and European K1200LT?
Thanks.

jzeiler Apr 19th, 2019 8:45 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
I think it was just the first batch of ME888 that were rubbing(it was 4 years ago). Many have had no issues with them since.

saddleman Apr 20th, 2019 4:25 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
The lip near the tire on the swingarm is the casting line. Some of the casting lines stick out farther. I have had to grind the casting line on two swingarms for clearance.

Voyager Apr 20th, 2019 7:32 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jzeiler (Post 1908433)
I think it was just the first batch of ME888 that were rubbing(it was 4 years ago). Many have had no issues with them since.

It is good to know that the issue seems to have been corrected. However, after running a couple Bridgestones, I can’t imagine running a Metz on the rear again.

saddleman Apr 20th, 2019 11:28 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1908453)
It is good to know that the issue seems to have been corrected. However, after running a couple Bridgestones, I can’t imagine running a Metz on the rear again.

They don't make the Bridgestone BT020 for the LT anymore. The new one I got a few days ago was made almost three years ago.

Voyager Apr 20th, 2019 12:02 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by saddleman (Post 1908465)
They don't make the Bridgestone BT020 for the LT anymore. The new one I got a few days ago was made almost three years ago.

Well that is not good news. I wonder how many are still in the pipeline? So, we are now down to just the 888 and the Shinto 777 for later model LTs?

Voyager Apr 20th, 2019 12:40 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
The good news is that they are still readily available. I found four suppliers that still have them. No idea as to the age. American MotoTire still had the best price so I ordered a new rear as I want to have fresh (well, new at least!) rubber to head to AK.

nikosK1200LT Apr 20th, 2019 5:22 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
What's the AK man?

Voyager Apr 20th, 2019 6:50 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nikosK1200LT (Post 1908509)
What's the AK man?

State abbreviation for Alaska.

Voyager Apr 20th, 2019 6:53 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Greased the side stand and hooked up the GS-911 today. The computer blessed the bike as being healthy with no codes set for either engine or ABS. Ran a bleed test and it passed just fine. Well, once I set the lever to 4 as on 3, with the grip puppies, I could not get enough travel to get into the green zone. Other than an oil change and mounting new rubber, I think it is ready to hit the road in May.

nikosK1200LT Apr 21st, 2019 4:02 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1908529)
State abbreviation for Alaska.

Safe travels.

DRONE Apr 21st, 2019 9:04 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1908473)
Well that is not good news. I wonder how many are still in the pipeline? So, we are now down to just the 888 and the Shinto 777 for later model LTs?

These are all rated 79V--

Metzeler Cruisetec - Bias Ply
Avon Storm 3D X-M - Radial Reinforced
Pirelli Night Dragon GT - Bias Ply


And for what it's worth, Bridgestone's website still lists the BT020 160/70-B17 Bias Ply (79V) as being in current production. Maybe if shopping for this one, contact the seller before pulling the trigger to make sure they're selling fresh inventory.

Voyager Apr 21st, 2019 10:03 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DRONE (Post 1908669)
These are all rated 79V--

Metzeler Cruisetec - Bias Ply
Avon Storm 3D X-M - Radial Reinforced
Pirelli Night Dragon GT - Bias Ply


And for what it's worth, Bridgestone's website still lists the BT020 160/70-B17 Bias Ply (79V) as being in current production. Maybe if shopping for this one, contact the seller before pulling the trigger to make sure they're selling fresh inventory.

The three listed above are not suitable for my late model LT. The radial is not suitable as it is a radial. The other two are not suitable, probably for lack of the reinforced sidewall, but I can’t be sure. The manufacturers don’t say they just don’t list them as an acceptable fitment. There is more to being an approved tire than just size, load range and speed rating.

It is odd as I checked the Bridgestone web site (which says it is under construction) when Saddleman first posted about the BT020 no longer being made and I could not find a listing for the LT in their online fitment tool which seemed to confirm what he wrote. I just checked again tonight and the online fitment tool is gone replaced by the old pdf fitment guide, which does indeed list the BT020 still as an acceptable fitment for 2004 and later LTs.

So, it seems we still have the two “for sure” options: ME888 and BT020 and the one “wildcard” option: Shinko 777. I say wildcard as I am not sure it really is approved for the LT. It has the load range, but not the speed rating and Shinko’s web site lacks a fitment guide - at least I have yet to find one. Given that, I would not use it, but I know some have had good luck with it so far. If anyone is aware of a Shinko fitment guide that lists the 777 as acceptable for the LT, please provide a pointer to it.

Tsteeper Apr 21st, 2019 10:53 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1908675)
The three listed above are not suitable for my late model LT. The radial is not suitable as it is a radial.

I don't get the statement that the radial is not suitable because it is a radial?

I put a set of the Avon radials on my 2006LT a couple years ago, replacing the almost worn out Bridgestones. The Avon has considerably more traction on dry pavement, or wet pavement, and it seems more stable on gravel too. I don't even have then quite half worn yet, but thus far I have no reason to not put them on again next time round.

Voyager Apr 22nd, 2019 6:18 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsteeper (Post 1908679)
I don't get the statement that the radial is not suitable because it is a radial?

I put a set of the Avon radials on my 2006LT a couple years ago, replacing the almost worn out Bridgestones. The Avon has considerably more traction on dry pavement, or wet pavement, and it seems more stable on gravel too. I don't even have then quite half worn yet, but thus far I have no reason to not put them on again next time round.

BMW quietly switched from radials to bias ply after the changes to the suspension geometry in the 2004/5 make-over. Check the tire maker web sites. You will not find a single radial listed for the LT. There is a reason for that. BMW told the tire makers that radials are not approved for the later model LTs. The earlier ones are fine.

Having said that, you can run whatever fits if you so choose. You can run tires with lower than specified load and/or speed rating and you can run radials. Your life; your choice. I would suggest not carrying passengers though unless they are fully apprised of the risk they are taking.

bruincounselor Apr 22nd, 2019 11:03 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
I got Bridgestones from Dennis Kirk last week. "only" 2 years old. Reasonably priced and shipped to me in a day.

jzeiler Apr 22nd, 2019 11:06 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
I just ordered a rear BT-020 from AMT will see what the date code is in a few days.

Voyager Apr 22nd, 2019 11:30 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bruincounselor (Post 1908731)
I got Bridgestones from Dennis Kirk last week. "only" 2 years old. Reasonably priced and shipped to me in a day.

I just the my “shipped” notice from AMT so we shall see what my date code is. $141.27 which I thought was a pretty good. And I have had good service from AMT over the years. They have always shipped fast and I have had two tires I had to return under warranty and they were pretty easy to deal with in both cases. First was a rear 880 that had a crack develop in the sidewall at what appeared to be a seam when the rubber was laid down. The second was a little over a year ago when a front 888 developed a serious bulge under the tread.

bmwcoolk1200 Apr 22nd, 2019 11:33 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
John, I followed suit with you and Matt at AMT a few days ago. Will let you know what the date code is when I get it. We can compare notes. I hope they had 3 in stock :)

Voyager Apr 22nd, 2019 12:15 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
We should have teamed up for a volume discount!

DRONE Apr 22nd, 2019 2:18 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1908675)
The three listed above are not suitable for my late model LT. The radial is not suitable as it is a radial. The other two are not suitable, probably for lack of the reinforced sidewall, but I can’t be sure. The manufacturers don’t say they just don’t list them as an acceptable fitment. There is more to being an approved tire than just size, load range and speed rating.

This is an interesting approach to tire selection. For me, I've never paid any attention to a "fitment guide" on a tire manufacturer's website. I always go by the basics, namely 1. size 2. bias or radial 3. load and speed rating. If the load and speed rating matches the OEM tire then I know the tire is WAY WAY overbuilt for my demands since I don't ride anywhere near the speeds that the tire is tested at.

Lucky for me, these tire discussions on the forum are moot. I run a steel-belted radial car tire on the rear, a bias ply rear tire on the front, and my third tire is also a car tire. ;)

radar41 Apr 22nd, 2019 3:22 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxrider66 (Post 1350314)
Has anyone had any issues with the ME888 rubbing the swingarm?
I just installed an ME888 after using ME880s with no problems. 1/4" of the tread on the right side is rubbing the swingarm of my 2001 LT.

Anyone have a solution? I was thinking of doubling up on the steel spacer between the wheel and the hub.

Yep, Had the same issues with my 2000. I made spacers to correct the problem. :smile: One dealer suggested "shaving" the tire for clearance!! The spacers work much better without damaging the tire.

Voyager Apr 22nd, 2019 4:42 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DRONE (Post 1908775)
This is an interesting approach to tire selection. For me, I've never paid any attention to a "fitment guide" on a tire manufacturer's website. I always go by the basics, namely 1. size 2. bias or radial 3. load and speed rating. If the load and speed rating matches the OEM tire then I know the tire is WAY WAY overbuilt for my demands since I don't ride anywhere near the speeds that the tire is tested at.

Lucky for me, these tire discussions on the forum are moot. I run a steel-belted radial car tire on the rear, a bias ply rear tire on the front, and my third tire is also a car tire. ;)

I don’t know about interesting, but it is the correct way to select motorcycle tires.

Lots of people do things incorrectly and most of the time it works, but occasionally it goes horribly wrong. I can only speculate as to why BMW made the change away from radials, but from my 32 years working in R&D, control systems in particular, I have a strong suspicion. It almost certainly is not related to load capacity or speed rating. I suspect it is related to a dynamics issue, most likely a nasty resonance between the tires and the suspension under certain conditions. What those conditions are, only BMW knows, but they specified tires that will avoid that condition and I suspect that radials will not avoid it.

bmwcoolk1200 Apr 22nd, 2019 6:37 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1908795)
I don’t know about interesting, but it is the correct way to select motorcycle tires.

Lots of people do things incorrectly and most of the time it works, but occasionally it goes horribly wrong. I can only speculate as to why BMW made the change away from radials, but from my 32 years working in R&D, control systems in particular, I have a strong suspicion. It almost certainly is not related to load capacity or speed rating. I suspect it is related to a dynamics issues, mostly like a nasty resonance between the tires and the suspension under certain conditions. What those conditions are, only BMW knows, but they specified tires that will avoid that condition and I suspect that radials will not avoid it.

Yes and exactly why the new GA is limited to 100 or less. It becomes unstable over that.

bmwcoolk1200 Apr 22nd, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Came home to a message on the answering machine from American MotoTire. I immediately called back and my first question was which one of us got the tire, Matt, John or me >:)

As it turns out, they had plenty and all of us are getting our tires. He just wanted to verify my address as I checked out as a guest.

Voyager Apr 22nd, 2019 7:10 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 (Post 1908807)
Came home to a message on the answering machine from American MotoTire. I immediately called back and my first question was which one of us got the tire, Matt, John or me >:)

As it turns out, they had plenty and all of us are getting our tires. He just wanted to verify my address as I checked out as a guest.

That is funny as I had the same exact thought when I saw your note about ordering one. I was figuring one of us would get the call, but since mine has already shipped I knew it would not be me! I thought about calling them and asking them to call you and tell you that I got your tire. >:) I doubt they would have gone along with that.

jzeiler Apr 23rd, 2019 4:20 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Got mine today date code 2217. Looks really good.

Voyager Apr 23rd, 2019 4:20 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
1 Attachment(s)
Just shy of two years old.

Voyager Apr 23rd, 2019 4:30 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Holy simultaneous post, Batman! And the same date code to boot.

Given the low volume, I except they probably make a production run only every year or two so probably every tire made in a given year has the same date code.

bmwcoolk1200 Apr 23rd, 2019 5:57 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Mine has shipped but I don't have it yet. I will be the lucky guy that gets the old 4 year old stock LOL. Will post when I get it.

Voyager Apr 23rd, 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 (Post 1908937)
Mine has shipped but I don't have it yet. I will be the lucky guy that gets the old 4 year old stock LOL. Will post when I get it.

A going to go out on a limb and predict a date code of ..... wait for it .... 2217.

bmwcoolk1200 Apr 23rd, 2019 6:10 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1908939)
A going to go out on a limb and predict a date code of ..... wait for it .... 2217.

When I talked to Chris on the phone to verify parts of my address, he said he had plenty of them in the Fla warehouse. Would not be surprised at all with a 2217 showing up at my door.

bruincounselor Apr 23rd, 2019 9:41 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Same code for me, from Dennis Kirk.

bmwcoolk1200 Apr 24th, 2019 8:27 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
1 Attachment(s)
DING DING DING, Matt is the winner. 2217 . Just some shrink wrap with a label on it and the invoice stuck inside.

Voyager Apr 24th, 2019 9:26 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 (Post 1909033)
DING DING DING, Matt is the winner. 2217 . Just some shrink wrap with a label on it and the invoice stuck inside.

I am willing to make even a bolder statement. I will bet that ALL rear LT tires made in 2017 were made in the 22nd week. And it may well be that they made so many during that production run that NO LT rear tires were made in 2018. Just a wild guess though...

bmwcoolk1200 Apr 24th, 2019 10:14 pm

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Voyager (Post 1909039)
I am willing to make even a bolder statement. I will bet that ALL rear LT tires made in 2017 were made in the 22nd week. And it may well be that they made so many during that production run that NO LT rear tires were made in 2018. Just a wild guess though...

It would be interesting to be able to find out how the production runs go and how often. I am good for the next 15K miles with the tires I now have so I will look to the next run if any as this is by far my preferred tire of the two I have used.

Voyager Apr 25th, 2019 6:33 am

Re: Metzeler ME888
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwcoolk1200 (Post 1909041)
It would be interesting to be able to find out how the production runs go and how often. I am good for the next 15K miles with the tires I now have so I will look to the next run if any as this is by far my preferred tire of the two I have used.

I am probably good for the rest of the time I will have my LT. I have three rear BT020: one with 10,000 on it which I am running now, one with about 3,000 on it and one brand new. So that should leave about 3,000 + 10,000 + 13,000 = 26,000 miles. I have two front ME888s: one with 6,000 and one brand new. That should yield 10,000 + 16,000 = 26,000 also. That is four years at my normal 6,000 to 7,000 per year average, but this year’s trip will skew that a little as I likely will ride closer to 12,000 this year.

My only debate is once I remove the current tire to put on the new shoe for Alaska, will I want to bother to remount a tire just to get 2-3,000 miles from it. I may just toss it, but I will see what mood I am in at the time. It is actually now not too bad to change a rear tire with my NoMar unit. It used to be a real pain and I most certainly would have tossed a tire that had less than 3,000 miles left.


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