GS-911 O2 sensor plot - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 6 Old Jun 6th, 2015, 6:06 pm Thread Starter
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,173
GS-911 O2 sensor plot

I have been trying to diagnose a "warm engine" hesitation at low throttle openings, most noticeable when trying to start out from a stop. When the bike is cold, it pulls away strongly with little need for RPM much above idle (I try to use 1200 or so).

However, when the engine is warm and in warmer weather in particular, the engine will stall if any load is applied to it below bout 2,000 RPM. It just has no power at all and is even sluggish when simply revved in neutral from idle. The problem seemed to get a lot worse with the advent of E10 fuel, but I am not 100% convince that this is the problem as occasionally it will respond reasonably well even when hot. This behavior occurs about 70% of the time when starting out warm.

I thought it was the normal "hot weather" fuel mapping issue with the LT, so I bought an Accelerator module, but that seemed to have a very minor affect if any at all on this problem. I am wondering if there is a sensor that is flaky, but it that is the case I have not been able to catch it on the GS-911. I just did another routine code scan and no codes have ever been set and all sensors seem to be reading correctly, including the O2 sensor, at least as far as I know.

Here is a scan I just took at idle with the engine fully warmed. The plot looks fine to me, but I am wondering if anyone other GS-911 owners can take a look and let me know if this looks similar to what you see on your LT.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	K1200LT GS-911 O2 Sensor plot.png
Views:	222
Size:	138.3 KB
ID:	81874  

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 6 Old Jun 6th, 2015, 7:59 pm
Senior Member
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Montreal ,QC , Canada
Posts: 1,171
Re: GS-911 O2 sensor plot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
I have been trying to diagnose a "warm engine" hesitation at low throttle openings, most noticeable when trying to start out from a stop. When the bike is cold, it pulls away strongly with little need for RPM much above idle (I try to use 1200 or so).

However, when the engine is warm and in warmer weather in particular, the engine will stall if any load is applied to it below bout 2,000 RPM. It just has no power at all and is even sluggish when simply revved in neutral from idle. The problem seemed to get a lot worse with the advent of E10 fuel, but I am not 100% convince that this is the problem as occasionally it will respond reasonably well even when hot. This behavior occurs about 70% of the time when starting out warm.

I thought it was the normal "hot weather" fuel mapping issue with the LT, so I bought an Accelerator module, but that seemed to have a very minor affect if any at all on this problem. I am wondering if there is a sensor that is flaky, but it that is the case I have not been able to catch it on the GS-911. I just did another routine code scan and no codes have ever been set and all sensors seem to be reading correctly, including the O2 sensor, at least as far as I know.

Here is a scan I just took at idle with the engine fully warmed. The plot looks fine to me, but I am wondering if anyone other GS-911 owners can take a look and let me know if this looks similar to what you see on your LT.
Scan appears a bit sluggish as the time spacing is long, but the High/Lows are good. However the time spacing is also related to parameters set on screen to gather realtime data. See attached screen where the GREEN arrow is pointing.

Unless I am on site with my GS911 (cannot obviously), I will need more data. A few questions:
1) If parked on center-stand, at proper engine temp (to cause the issue) would you be able to open throttle from idle in neutral and make it so to reproduce the problem ?

2) If you cannot do above in neutral, then it means the hesitation is only when leaving under load - correct ?

3) Using the GS911 datalog- to-file option, could you do one file at temperature to cause problem (using “normal” data sampling) The best (if you can) would be to use a very small laptop inside top or side-case and do the realtime data log under load when riding the bike in problem conditions (for 5 or 10 minutes). Otherwise do it on centre-stand in neutral.

In item 3 above, use all data items (defaults) for logging purpose. Accept default file name or change it if you want - extension is CSV for "comma-separated-values" - not a true EXCEL file but can be read and converted in Excel.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	GS911_realtimeinfo_HOWTO_2.jpg
Views:	269
Size:	79.0 KB
ID:	81882  

-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
Think twice before you hit [SUBMIT REPLY] - famous quote by another member:
"The value of this board is not founded on dismissing the ideas of others, but by posting to share our experiences and what we've learned from them."
sailor is offline  
post #3 of 6 Old Jun 6th, 2015, 8:25 pm Thread Starter
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,173
Re: GS-911 O2 sensor plot

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Scan appears a bit sluggish as the time spacing is long, but the High/Lows are good. However the time spacing is also related to parameters set on screen to gather realtime data. See attached screen where the GREEN arrow is pointing.

Unless I am on site with my GS911 (cannot obviously), I will need more data. A few questions:
1) If parked on center-stand, at proper engine temp (to cause the issue) would you be able to open throttle from idle in neutral and make it so to reproduce the problem ?

2) If you cannot do above in neutral, then it means the hesitation is only when leaving under load - correct ?

3) Using the GS911 datalog- to-file option, could you do one file at temperature to cause problem (using “normal” data sampling) The best (if you can) would be to use a very small laptop inside top or side-case and do the realtime data log under load when riding the bike in problem conditions (for 5 or 10 minutes). Otherwise do it on centre-stand in neutral.

In item 3 above, use all data items (defaults) for logging purpose. Accept default file name or change it if you want - extension is CSV for "comma-separated-values" - not a true EXCEL file but can be read and converted in Excel.
1. Possibly, but generally need some load to make it really pronounced. However, when it does act up, I generally pull in the clutch and blip the throttle a couple of times and it feels sluggish even then, but a little hard to be sure with no load as the LT is a pretty sluggish to rev compared to other bikes I've owned and the K1600 I rented.

2. I can't say yes definitively, but it certainly is most pronounced under load.

3. Yes, this is my plan. Part of what I was doing today was getting my GS-911 updated and getting the Bluetooth to work, which I finally succeeded in doing. Had to get clear up to comm port 5 before I got the PC to talk Bluetooth to the GS-911. Unfortunately, I leave for a conference tomorrow and won't get back to it until Thursday. The good news is the weather is supposed to be much warmer then and that usually exacerbates the problem.

I will try to get a file or two. I will try to synch my watch to the laptop clock so I can locate the place in the data set where the problem occurs. Or maybe I could do a simple code such as three throttle blips right after the occurrence. Sort of depends on traffic and such. Any other tricks you have used to find the right place in the file?

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is offline  
 
post #4 of 6 Old Jun 6th, 2015, 8:48 pm
Senior Member
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Montreal ,QC , Canada
Posts: 1,171
Re: GS-911 O2 sensor plot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
1. Possibly, but generally need some load to make it really pronounced. However, when it does act up, I generally pull in the clutch and blip the throttle a couple of times and it feels sluggish even then, but a little hard to be sure with no load as the LT is a pretty sluggish to rev compared to other bikes I've owned and the K1600 I rented.

2. I can't say yes definitively, but it certainly is most pronounced under load.

3. Yes, this is my plan. Part of what I was doing today was getting my GS-911 updated and getting the Bluetooth to work, which I finally succeeded in doing. Had to get clear up to comm port 5 before I got the PC to talk Bluetooth to the GS-911. Unfortunately, I leave for a conference tomorrow and won't get back to it until Thursday. The good news is the weather is supposed to be much warmer then and that usually exacerbates the problem.

I will try to get a file or two. I will try to synch my watch to the laptop clock so I can locate the place in the data set where the problem occurs. Or maybe I could do a simple code such as three throttle blips right after the occurrence. Sort of depends on traffic and such. Any other tricks you have used to find the right place in the file?
In GS911 datalog, when you select all items, I can see TIME(in millisec since the log began, not the clock) TPS and RPM (among others).

So when the problem occurs within the log sequence, I should see either a stall (RPM to zero for 1 or 2 sec, then restart RPM) or I should see idle-rpm (being stopped at traffic light) followed by fairly high RPM to start from stop without stalling (if my understanding of bike behavior is correct).

Obviously the GS911 will also give me many more info to help cross-check all data for anomalies: engine-temp, injection-time, ignition advance....

Try to ride it so that I can see IDLE rpm a few times for 15 to 20 secs when warm/hot (at problem zone). The whole ride does not need to be longer than necessary, just enough to bring it into problem zone 1 or 2 times.

-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
Think twice before you hit [SUBMIT REPLY] - famous quote by another member:
"The value of this board is not founded on dismissing the ideas of others, but by posting to share our experiences and what we've learned from them."
sailor is offline  
post #5 of 6 Old Jun 7th, 2015, 8:22 pm
cws
Senior Member
 
cws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 3,184
Garage
Re: GS-911 O2 sensor plot

Voyager, I had a very similar problem for a few years while trying E10, and eventually switched back from using E10 95 RON fuel back to non-ethanol 95 RON fuel, and the hesitation problem dissappeared almost overnight.
The E10 was the only thing I could put it down to. At the time I didn't have the GS911 to do Lambda plots so have no graph to compare.

Chris
Sydney, NSW
2005 Dark Graphite Metallic K1200LT
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2005 Orient Blue Metallic K1200GT SE
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(sold 2019)
2000 Red Honda CB250 (the toy)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Ulysses #45310
GS911


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

cws is offline  
post #6 of 6 Old Jun 7th, 2015, 10:06 pm Thread Starter
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,173
Re: GS-911 O2 sensor plot

Quote:
Originally Posted by cws View Post
Voyager, I had a very similar problem for a few years while trying E10, and eventually switched back from using E10 95 RON fuel back to non-ethanol 95 RON fuel, and the hesitation problem dissappeared almost overnight.
The E10 was the only thing I could put it down to. At the time I didn't have the GS911 to do Lambda plots so have no graph to compare.
I have run a few isolated tanks of real gas, but in my area it is now very hard to find. Typically only at marinas. I would run avgas, but that would poison the catcon.

I haven't seen a huge difference on one fill-up which is why I am not sure the E10 is the problem, but it is a lead suspect. I wish I could run 3-4 consecutive tanks of real gas to see if that eliminates the problem. Since that isn't possible, I am trying to rule out everything else I can.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome