Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 Old May 25th, 2015, 9:40 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Allegan, MI, United States
Posts: 7
Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

Hello all,

I've been riding a '93 K1100LT for the past 14 years. I bought it as a one-up tourer/IB bike, and did all the mods to the bike that that role required (lights, cruise, aux tank). Also did all(most) of my own maintenance, including replacing rear seal, drive shaft (had dealer rebuild/shim FD).

Now, my wife likes to ride, but the K11 is a little cramped for her liking, so I'm looking to up-size to the K1200LT. I've also looked at the GL1800, but not sure I'm ready to go that big/expensive. I've ridden both, and believe the K will do what I want.

Here's the question, put in the context of what I understand to be the differences that developed over the production run of the K12. Do I understand this correctly:

99-02 (April production?): ABSII vs. later production integrated/linked brakes

05 on: changed steering geometry, meaning no radial tires; power centerstand.

All models have ABS of some flavor, reverse, five speed tranny.

FD is a 4% issue, and can be prevented by a proper rebuild at reasonable cost from members here. More common on earlier bikes?

Rear seal and o-ring have a tendency to fail: can be detected earlier (and avoiding clutch oiling) by drilling a weep hole.

Early radios have a failure potential due to vibrations, but can be replaced with modern BT/usb units (not issue, as who uses physical CD's anymore?)

What I don't know: How good, or not, is the factory nav and comms, and when was it available? I have portable nav, and know I'll want good comm.

That is what I "think" I know. My inclination is to go with the 99-02 for: cost; I am comfortable with an older bike and am not worried about future maintenance/upgrade work; and I believe I'd prefer the older ABS system without the linked brakes (because it's what I'm accustomed to).

I appreciate any help/advice that you all have to offer. I have looked at many threads here, but if I have missed "Basics of Buying an LT" here somewhere, I apologize and would appreciate a link.

Thanks in advance.
Don
SW Michigan
djw54 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old May 25th, 2015, 10:44 am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 978
Re: Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

I moved from a K1100 to the LT, I picked a 2000, the power brake/abs module on the 01 up models is extremely expensive to replace if/when it fails. The early models with abs only have normal braking if the module fails.
The LT is top heavy, quite a bit larger than the K11, I have only dropped mine once because I was trying to move it walking beside it instead of sitting on it using reverse.
When coming to a stop you need to be much more aware of having the bike vertical, if you have it leaning even slightly it is easy to drop it.

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
1960 AJS 500 single
gary45 is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old May 25th, 2015, 12:02 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe, Northern hemisphere
Posts: 594
Re: Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

Quote:
Rear seal and o-ring have a tendency to fail: can be detected earlier (and avoiding clutch oiling) by drilling a weep hole.
I would say no. Originally weep hole means a hole drilled to revel (and stop) leaking of slave cylinder / brake fluid to clutch. If rear main seal or (more likely) O-ring gives up your clutch will be toast. Of course that can be detected too by drilling a "weep / inspection hole" in to bell housing. But I would say if either O-ring, Main seal or transmission seals are giving up you really cannot prevent clutch being destroyed - You perhaps just see "now it will happen".

Born to be wild so why not

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
C-A-D is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 Old May 25th, 2015, 12:06 pm
Senior Member
 
Munmi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Munising, MI, USA
Posts: 677
Re: Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

This may be helpful to you.....BMW K1200LT Bike Overview

Scott and Theresa
Munising, MI
2004 K1200LT Black
2014 Kawasaki KLR650

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Munmi is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old May 25th, 2015, 4:33 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Allegan, MI, United States
Posts: 7
Re: Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munmi View Post
This may be helpful to you.....BMW K1200LT Bike Overview
That was rather sobering. So, as I hear it, all I have to do is replace the seat, suspension, brake lines, headlight, fuel line disconnects and radio. And hope nothing goes wrong that requires removing any plastic. Which the bike is covered with.

Does that sum it up?
djw54 is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old May 25th, 2015, 4:34 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Allegan, MI, United States
Posts: 7
Re: Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by C-A-D View Post
I would say no. Originally weep hole means a hole drilled to revel (and stop) leaking of slave cylinder / brake fluid to clutch. If rear main seal or (more likely) O-ring gives up your clutch will be toast. Of course that can be detected too by drilling a "weep / inspection hole" in to bell housing. But I would say if either O-ring, Main seal or transmission seals are giving up you really cannot prevent clutch being destroyed - You perhaps just see "now it will happen".
Thank you for the clarification. I was a little sketchy on that whole point.
djw54 is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old May 25th, 2015, 4:38 pm Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Allegan, MI, United States
Posts: 7
Re: Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gary45 View Post
I moved from a K1100 to the LT, I picked a 2000, the power brake/abs module on the 01 up models is extremely expensive to replace if/when it fails. The early models with abs only have normal braking if the module fails.
Gary,
You say 01 up models; is that for Canada, vs. the 02/03 up models for US? I only ask to clarify which bikes I want to focus on; I see your former K1100LT is listed as a 92, but I know 93 was the first model year in the US.
Thanks.
Don
djw54 is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old May 25th, 2015, 4:54 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 978
Re: Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by djw54 View Post
Gary,
You say 01 up models; is that for Canada, vs. the 02/03 up models for US? I only ask to clarify which bikes I want to focus on; I see your former K1100LT is listed as a 92, but I know 93 was the first model year in the US.
Thanks.
Don
We get the European models in Canada, but from what I understand even late 01 USA came with power brakes. All vehicle production for any model year starts the year before so cross over varies.
My K11 was made late 91 by the VIN
It is not hard to tell what the bikes have - ABS only have Brembo calipers

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
1960 AJS 500 single
gary45 is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old May 25th, 2015, 8:07 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: El Paso, TX, USA
Posts: 223
Re: Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

Got serious about touring in 2002, and purchased a '96 K11LT. Enjoyed it (as did my spouse) for the next five years as we rode in the Pacific northwest. But then I retired (sort of) and as a treat to myself, upgraded to a 2003 K12LT. I was then five years older, and I was surprised by the weight differential. Because I was not as comfortable with the greater weight, my spouse was not as comfortable with me. (There may be, somewhere on this forum, my tales of woe from that period).

In retrospect, I probably would have been better off sticking with the K11 and perhaps upgrading the seat. I in fact did purchase two more K11s and actually enjoy them more than the K12 (though it is a pleasure when it's moving).

But now I'm at the point where I am slowly divesting myself of the bikes, having to satisfy myself with my wife's pristine Honda Del Sol, which only poses the challenge of bending down far enough to get into it and then wrenching myself out of it. But it affords me a lot of the pleasures--and more stability, air-conditioning (if I don't take the top off), and cup-holders--and I don't have to wear ATGATT.

Probably TMI, but for whatever it's worth.

Larry Johnson
El Paso Tx
ljjohns is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old May 26th, 2015, 7:36 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Allegan, MI, United States
Posts: 7
Re: Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

Thank you all for the feedback.

I'd like to pose my question another way:

Any reason NOT to go with a '99-01?

In looking at my original post and thinking about it, my reason for going older was primarily wariness over the linked braking system, and the $$$$ if something goes wrong. In the big picture, doesn't seem like a good enough reason unless they go bad all the time and there's no way to stop it (the "going bad" and the bike!).

On the other hand, the newest LT is already(only) 6 years old, but if it needs some of the same tweaks (i.e. braided brake lines, etc.) as a 15-year-old, why not put the money I save buying the 15-year-old into those tweaks, unless I find one that is already upgraded?

Decisions, decisions.

Thanks for listening.
Don
djw54 is offline  
post #11 of 15 Old May 26th, 2015, 8:06 am
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,173
Re: Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by djw54 View Post
Thank you all for the feedback.

I'd like to pose my question another way:

Any reason NOT to go with a '99-01?

In looking at my original post and thinking about it, my reason for going older was primarily wariness over the linked braking system, and the $$$$ if something goes wrong. In the big picture, doesn't seem like a good enough reason unless they go bad all the time and there's no way to stop it (the "going bad" and the bike!).

On the other hand, the newest LT is already(only) 6 years old, but if it needs some of the same tweaks (i.e. braided brake lines, etc.) as a 15-year-old, why not put the money I save buying the 15-year-old into those tweaks, unless I find one that is already upgraded?

Decisions, decisions.

Thanks for listening.
Don
The main reason not to, assuming you don't care about EHCS, etc., is that all rubber parts are very old and may be near failure. Unless you strip the bike and replace all hoses, seals, etc, and check wiring and such, you can have a series of often only minor, but often annoying failures over time.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is offline  
post #12 of 15 Old May 26th, 2015, 8:55 am Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Allegan, MI, United States
Posts: 7
Re: Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
The main reason not to, assuming you don't care about EHCS, etc., is that all rubber parts are very old and may be near failure. Unless you strip the bike and replace all hoses, seals, etc, and check wiring and such, you can have a series of often only minor, but often annoying failures over time.
Okay, I can see the point you're making, as a matter of annoyance or inconvenience. Hoses and seals is normal, would plan on replacing brake and fuel lines anyway. What did you have in mind when you said "check wiring and such".
djw54 is offline  
post #13 of 15 Old May 26th, 2015, 9:32 am
Member
 
That Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 81
Re: Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by djw54 View Post
Okay, I can see the point you're making, as a matter of annoyance or inconvenience. Hoses and seals is normal, would plan on replacing brake and fuel lines anyway. What did you have in mind when you said "check wiring and such".
I think he means that plugs can corrode and wiring can be chaffed and frayed if they have any contact points that allow movement.

That said, I took the plunge and picked up a 99 a few weeks back that has basically been trouble free sans a few things (mostly my own OCD on some things). I did, however, look ling for the right one. Mine had flawless maintenance records kept with the bike from BMW in Ventura CA up to and including the $2600 clutch and seal job done 1000 miles before I got the bike (the reason the PO sold it actually).

You may be better off finding a higher mileage bike that is used regularly, than a low mile bike that sat most of its life. I was into the Honda V4s for a while and my first was a 54K V65 magna that was a daily driver. I sold it a month ago with 80K on it the only thing I ever had to maintenance was brake hoses, barke pads and tires (and oil of course). The carbs had NEVER been off the bike and that thing ran like brand new. On the flip side, I found a super low mile, 10K, 84 magna that sat and I had to replace everything soft on it, and I mean everything, hoses, o-rings, gaskets, fuel lines, fuel pump, carb diaphragms, ect. Kinda like a boat. you want one thats in the water being used, not one that has sat dry and let all the rubber dry and rot out.

Just my thoughts tho.

- Justin
That Guy is offline  
post #14 of 15 Old May 26th, 2015, 1:17 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Voyager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lawrenceville, PA, USA
Posts: 7,173
Re: Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by djw54 View Post
Okay, I can see the point you're making, as a matter of annoyance or inconvenience. Hoses and seals is normal, would plan on replacing brake and fuel lines anyway. What did you have in mind when you said "check wiring and such".
Insulation deteriorates with age. Spark plug wires and wires around the steering head are particularly troublesome in an older bike.

2017 KLR650 "Mule"
2007 K1200LT "Starship Enterprise", VOICE II, Navigator V, Motorrad Communicator
1987 Kawasaki Voyager XII
1976 Kawasaki KH400
1973 Kawasaki 100 G5
1970 Rockford Chibi (the orange one)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Voyager is offline  
post #15 of 15 Old May 26th, 2015, 11:31 pm
Junior Member
 
wrenchff1098's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Topsfield Ma , Ma , USA
Posts: 10
Re: Moving from a K11LT to a K12LT - How to shop?

I went from a 93 1100 to a 99 1200lt and never looked back I loved the 1100 but the 1200 is by far a much better bike my wife and I have enjoyed it even with its "quirks" I am 6'1'' and found the 1100 way tall I never felt comfortable on it a low speeds or trying to back into a space or push it around while parking loose gravel and foot slips and she was down, I will say she was tons easier to get back up though, the LT went down once on me and it took my wifes help to get her back up, I have changed the o2 sensor and plugs are wires and fuel filter are ordered and will be changed this weekend. Over all love the LT and plan to keep her a while

1976 R90/6 (retired)
1993 K1100LT (retired)
1999 K1200LT
wrenchff1098 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Moving for the First Time ironbuttwannabe Chit Chat 3 Nov 15th, 2008 9:41 am
Moving from a Venture to an 1200 RT Deek RT Series 24 Jul 8th, 2008 6:03 pm
The Moving Vietnam Wall Escourt Lonewuff South Central 3 Oct 18th, 2007 8:57 pm
Moving Lost_but_Happy Mid West 9 Apr 11th, 2007 4:43 pm

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome