Calling All Clutch Gurus - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 23 Old Oct 16th, 2005, 8:51 pm Thread Starter
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Calling All Clutch Gurus

About to begin the disection on poor 'horse'.
Have read most if not all posts on the "old board".
Looking for a few more words of wisdom, particularly on the parts list.
Here is my list so far, feel free to fire away with critique/ commentary.

BMW parts
1.)21 21 7 670 456 Clutch Plate (D=180Mm)
2.)21 21 7 688 214 Diaphragm Spring
3.)21 21 2 332 974 Pressure Plate
4.)21 21 1 451 274 Spacer Ring
5.)21 52 2 333 433 output cylinder clutch (D=20)
6.)23 21 1 230 440 feltring
7.)23 12 2 352 156 gasket
8.)11 21 1 460 696 compression ring
9.)11 21 1 464 939 stop disk
10.)11 21 1 460 456 o-ring
11.)21 21 1 242 377 washer
12.)11 117 666 186 rear engine oil seal
13.)99 99 0 000 601 mineral oil and lithium soap (or non-BMW lube)
14.)23 12 7 656 019 Shaft Seal, Drive Shaft (17X28X7)
15.)23 12 1 340 324 Shaft Seal, Output Shaft (25X40X6)
16.)21 52 2 332 604 (X 4) gasket ring --Slave hose
17.)21 52 7 659 112 rod (L=258MM) ?? really need a new one ??
18.)21 52 2 333 450 & 451 ??? pressure hose assy?? seems like some of you replaced these
19.)??????????????? I know I must be forgetting somthing


Tools & Odds & Ends
1.) 30mm Modified Deep Socket
2.)12mm Modified Allen Wrench
3.)drive plate tool, 1" wide X 3/16" thick aluminum bar
4.)2X4, about 42" long, drilled a 1/2" hole in the center
5.)Home-made lift rig like Rhinewest uses
6.)????????? Ditto see #19 above

ed early
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post #2 of 23 Old Oct 16th, 2005, 9:29 pm
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Hey, Ed -

(BTW - missed ya at the Lickskillet affair today!!!)

I got no idea if you're missing anythang from your list, but as regards #17 - I saw Toad's old one and it looked fine to me; however, Hank suggested the new one that apparently has a groove around the circumference, with a felt washer/ring in it, that is designed to inhibit oil flow toward the clutch assembly. So that's what we did. Also, he drilled a *weep* hole in the bottom of the clutch casing so that any future encroachment of oil wouldn't collect and contaminate the assembly. You'll have to chat with Dave Shealey on just ed zachery what size and where that hole should be drilled, as he wuz one of the first gurus to recommend that procedure.
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post #3 of 23 Old Oct 16th, 2005, 9:36 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Hey, Ed -

(BTW - missed ya at the Lickskillet affair today!!!)
Thanks Dick , I missed you guys too ( aw, group hug) but 'horse' rally began to get persnickety Friday.
Thought it best not to put the miles on what's left of the clutch.
Thanks for the info on the rod and felt. (Don't cost that much no how.)
Glad you guys had a good RTE.

ed early
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post #4 of 23 Old Oct 16th, 2005, 11:19 pm
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From memory, it looks like you have it all.

If the actuation rod in the bike already has the groove in it, no need to replace it. You will want to get the new felt cylinder for it though. Put a little oil on the felt before re-installing the rod. The felt is not there to stop brake fluid from getting on the clutch as some have guessed. It will not stop it anyway. Mechanic at the dealer said they did that to prevent the rod from rattling in the bore of the input shaft. It was in the older K bikes, dropped for some reason, but brought back again.

I drilled a 5/32" hole in the bottom of the boss where the slave cylinder goes. Drill it as far forward as you can get it, and I angled it forward so that it came out fairly near the rear seal on the main shaft. Just be careful that you do not hit the seal! That way if it goes again (a given), the fluid will come out the hole before it gets high enough to work it's way down the center of the input shaft and into the clutch.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #5 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 12:24 am Thread Starter
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Thank you , yet again, Lt Prof. Emeritus.

ed early
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post #6 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 9:07 am
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Ed....let us know when you start in on the clutch project. We will try to be there as much as possible for moral support.

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post #7 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 9:29 am Thread Starter
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Cool Soon Grasshopper

Quote:
Originally Posted by bustedknuckles
Ed....let us know when you start in on the clutch project. We will try to be there as much as possible for moral support.
Set up lift yesterday, wow she's big!!
{Width Pro-Cycle XLT & Pro-Cycle DT XLT 48 }
http://www.derekweaver.com/store/bikers_garage.html

Parts got ordered today, --Chicago--
more importantly frig got beered!!

ed early
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post #8 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 9:57 am
 
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A question

Hey guys,

Since I have been eating up clutches lately (TWO of them in NINE hours) I have to ask:
Do you think that the BMW mechanic would know about the felt washer on part number 21 52 7 659 112 rod (L=258MM) and drilling the hole or should I suggest it to them?

I think that is a really great idea that could save me a whole lot of down time and money.

Thanks so much,
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post #9 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 9:58 am
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I just noticed something missing in your parts list! You need to have a new set of clutch cover retainer screws. These should always be replaced, with the star washers.

Mine were so tight that I had to drill the heads off of a couple to get them out. It is a thin hex head, easily stripped. Get a 6 point socket to help avoid stripping the heads.

21 21 1 454 417 Screw
21 21 1 240 377 Lock washer

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #10 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 10:27 am Thread Starter
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Red face Your right, I shoulda thunk more

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
You need to have a new set of clutch cover retainer screws. These should always be replaced, with the star washers.
21 21 1 454 417 Screw
21 21 1 240 377 Lock washer
Thanks, David, I wondered alittle about that, obviously not enough.

BTW, what about--21 21 2 333 449 housing cover, this isn't a wearable item , is it?

ed early
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post #11 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 10:29 am
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And 4 new exaust gaskets.
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post #12 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 10:33 am Thread Starter
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Question Oh , yeah gaskets!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobygrape
And 4 new exaust gaskets.
If I decide to put on a Remus do you still use the stock gaskets???

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post #13 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 10:49 am
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Yes you do.
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post #14 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 11:52 am
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It is wearable, but should not be needed. Unless one wears the clutch down to the rivets, the housing cover should not be damaged.

I did not replace the diaphragm spring, spacer ring, pressure plate, or housing cover when I did mine. just cleaned up the parts good so there was no brake fluid left on them. I replaced only seals, o-ring, clutch plate, and gaskets, along with the slave cylinder.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #15 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 11:56 am
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You should also replace the locknut, 11 21 1 460 797.

That is supposed to be a single use locknut. If you don't get it though, just put a couple drops of red Loctite on it when you put it back, as the only reason they don't re-use them is that they lose a lot of their "prevailing torque" locking feature when installed then removed.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #16 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 12:25 pm Thread Starter
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Red face Most likely TOO HOT in that Kitchen

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
You should also replace the locknut, 11 21 1 460 797.
Yeah , as I read more I cam to that conclusion.
With respect to the pressure plate--- by the 'smell test'-- bet mine will have some face damage from the heat.
If not , I'll proably put in a new anyhoo.

ed early
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post #17 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 12:37 pm
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clutch Gurus

As a matter of interest , what,s the total cost of the parts.

04 your 05 in Blighty
graphite,
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post #18 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 12:51 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikesnumbnuts
As a matter of interest , what,s the total cost of the parts.

04 your 05 in Blighty
graphite,
So far , going with all new parts a little over $400.00
If you leave off the items David mentioned subtract about $100.
http://maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/M...p?mospid=47964
http://www.chicagobmwmotorcycle.com/

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post #19 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 3:46 pm
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Did you factor in ceegars and libations? Don't worry about bandaids, duck tape and paper towels do just fine!



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post #20 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 5:13 pm Thread Starter
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Did you factor in ceegars and libations? Don't worry about bandaids, duck tape and paper towels do just fine!
Got 'em!!

ed early
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post #21 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 9:48 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dshealey
to prevent the rod from rattling in the bore of the input shaft. It was in the older K bikes, dropped for some reason, but brought back again.
Makes sense!
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post #22 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 10:41 pm
 
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OK if you're a fanatic, here's the icing on the cake. When I made that ill-fated "HI-Performance" clutch with the drilled discs, one thing really DID work. I had the clutch professionally balanced by a really good balancing shop (without the friction disc installed of course), and it made the bike feel noticeably smoother. The stock Sachs parts were pretty far from balanced despite the factory marks from an end-mill to balance it...

The double-diaphragm spring worked OK too. Then again, I'm running all-stock again now myself LOL that way fewer worries about the slave.
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post #23 of 23 Old Oct 17th, 2005, 11:09 pm Thread Starter
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Lightbulb was waiting for your contribution

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclecamper
When I made that ill-fated "HI-Performance" clutch ----
.
I have read your posts on the"Experiment", but not fully re-read them. They are on the agenda. I've been toying with the idea of a new facing material like a ceramic or some of the other new racing materials ( due to talking to some buddies that are still actively racing) but thats a more distant project. ( Maybe before Road Atlanta though.)

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