Hard to start and rough idle ??? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 18 Old Jan 28th, 2015, 9:33 pm Thread Starter
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Hard to start and rough idle ???

Took all the plastics off so I could work on the bike for the winter. It's a 2005. Everything on the left side came off the bike. Air box, throttle bodies, etc. Mainly so I could reattach the crankcase breather. I did change the fuel filter and hose, new plugs, air filter, just to eliminate a few things. So, I have to try several times to get the bike to idle. Once I get it to idle the slightest throttle will kill it. I can get it to take some throttle after a few more tries. All the time running a little rough. I dropped in gear one time to check my valve adjustment and everything seemed fine and it stayed running. I did take the battery out to help with bleeding the ABS unit. I know I have to reset the TPS and the Motronics. I believe the throttle bodies and vacuum lines have been put back correctly but I could pull the fuel tank and check them again. My question is, should I wait until I can run the bike in order to reset everything, Does this sound like a tps reset problem. Or should I be attempting to solve this problem now. Another thing I forgot to mention, can't run the bike long, it's in my basement and there's 2' of snow on the ground.

Last edited by pdrrock; Jan 28th, 2015 at 10:24 pm.
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post #2 of 18 Old Jan 29th, 2015, 5:25 am
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

maybe you just got the firing order wrong, start with the easy first, double check the plug leads are installed correctly. they do muck around abit after a big service until averything sorts its self out, did you get it up to operating temp?

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post #3 of 18 Old Jan 29th, 2015, 6:45 am Thread Starter
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

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Originally Posted by Axle View Post
maybe you just got the firing order wrong, start with the easy first, double check the plug leads are installed correctly. they do muck around abit after a big service until averything sorts its self out, did you get it up to operating temp?
No, it's in the basement. I would have to try and direct the exhaust outside if I do that. That's why I asked if this sounds like it could just be a reset. I would have to wait until Spring to run it. The only thing I have left to do is clean and rebuild, but I will wait if the suggestions point me towards more than a reset.
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post #4 of 18 Old Jan 29th, 2015, 7:06 am
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

did you reconnect the tva - plug toward rear of bike on throttle bodies
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Gary
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post #5 of 18 Old Jan 29th, 2015, 4:58 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

Yes I did.
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post #6 of 18 Old Jan 29th, 2015, 4:58 pm
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

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No, it's in the basement. I would have to try and direct the exhaust outside if I do that. That's why I asked if this sounds like it could just be a reset. I would have to wait until Spring to run it. The only thing I have left to do is clean and rebuild, but I will wait if the suggestions point me towards more than a reset.
Mine ran awfull till I got it out on the road and got some miles on it after a big service, I would wait until you can ride it, if you reacon you have done the job correctly, then you probably have.

Regards Linton
From the land of Kangaroo's and Koalas
and no koalas are not Bears



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2010 Suzuki GSX 1250FA (the Wifes)
2004 Cub Kamparoo Sprint
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post #7 of 18 Old Jan 29th, 2015, 7:35 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

I found a thread by BlaubeemMr that seems to describe my problem. Hard cold starting, hunting idle, rough running. It had a lot of good could be solutions that I have written down. But the final solution, an engine temp sensor had tripped a fault which caused the Motronic to think the engine was already hot. It was discovered by a tech at a dealer who reset the fault and all is well. Now wouldn't the reset that we do delete fault codes that may have been set by disconnecting the battery. This would lead me to believe that all could be well if I could take the bike for a "short ride". I don't believe that BlaubeeMr ever stated that he actually tried the tvp reset. Could I accomplish this reset by venting the exhaust, dropping the bike into 1st and letting it run on the center stand for a short time.
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post #8 of 18 Old Jan 30th, 2015, 8:41 am
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

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Originally Posted by pdrrock View Post
I found a thread by BlaubeemMr that seems to describe my problem. Hard cold starting, hunting idle, rough running. It had a lot of good could be solutions that I have written down. But the final solution, an engine temp sensor had tripped a fault which caused the Motronic to think the engine was already hot. It was discovered by a tech at a dealer who reset the fault and all is well. Now wouldn't the reset that we do delete fault codes that may have been set by disconnecting the battery. This would lead me to believe that all could be well if I could take the bike for a "short ride". I don't believe that BlaubeeMr ever stated that he actually tried the tvp reset. Could I accomplish this reset by venting the exhaust, dropping the bike into 1st and letting it run on the center stand for a short time.
The engine coolant sensor does not fail often, however it is true that it would cause similar symptoms that you have described. Using dealer's diag computer OR using a GS911 to check "realtime" data with engine running would confirm if sensor is good.

All these sensor are based on variable resistance with temperature, so you can do a "rough" check yourself with OhmMeter (when ignition/engine is OFF). At 70 f (20 celcius) the resistance should be 2500 ohms. When engine is warm/hot resistance will vary from 500 Ohms (warm) to 150 Ohms (engine very hot). The colder the engine is, the higher theresistance - keep in mind that it may take 8 hours for the engine to cool completely after a ride.

See this Picassa photo album that explain in pictures (and some text attached to some pictures) how you can test "roughly". Pictures done on a K1200RS, so on your K1200LT there is a bit more fairing to remove - sensor, wire and connector is located at same place for K1200LT of 2005+ (earlier model have connector a bit lower).
https://picasaweb.google.com/1014897...peratureSensor

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John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
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Last edited by sailor; Jan 30th, 2015 at 11:16 am.
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post #9 of 18 Old Jan 30th, 2015, 2:53 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

Thank you Sailor. Very good information. I'll check it out as soon as I get set up to run indoors. I don't think it's bad either. In fact the Tech didn't replace the sensor, I believe he reset the code that was telling the Motronic unit that the sensor was bad. That's why I was wondering if I went through the reset procedure, could I run it in 1st on the centerstand to accomplish the reset? And how long might that be?
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post #10 of 18 Old Jan 31st, 2015, 11:30 am Thread Starter
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

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Mine ran awfull till I got it out on the road and got some miles on it after a big service, I would wait until you can ride it, if you reacon you have done the job correctly, then you probably have.
Did your's have the same cold start issue's with the hunting idle?
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post #11 of 18 Old Jan 31st, 2015, 11:47 am
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

I've been fighting a cold start / rough idle issue on my '05 as well. Gone through a lot of it and found minor issues along the way. SAILOR has been a huge help. Just replaced the ECU. Will be putting the plastic back on the bike this weekend and hope to get it out for a good ride or two to see if that has corrected the issue.

It's a long thread, but if you want to see what I have gone though, you can check it out HERE.

1973 Yamaha 250 Enduro (crash and burn)
1982 Yamaha Virago 920 (sold)
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post #12 of 18 Old Jan 31st, 2015, 12:46 pm
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

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Originally Posted by rdepas View Post
I've been fighting a cold start / rough idle issue on my '05 as well. Gone through a lot of it and found minor issues along the way. SAILOR has been a huge help. Just replaced the ECU. Will be putting the plastic back on the bike this weekend and hope to get it out for a good ride or two to see if that has corrected the issue.

It's a long thread, but if you want to see what I have gone though, you can check it out HERE.
Robert (Pdrrock) did NOT say what Motronic-ECU version he has. To get this you need either:
(1) a GS911 to run AutoScan
(2) Dealers computer to read version / part number of Motronic
(3) need to remove fuel-tanks yourself, then to remove Motronic from its base to read outside sticker.

Also, Robert did not told us result of check for his engine coolant sensor using OhmMeter with engine cold (I gave him the link for the Howto).
How was the cold-start before you worked on it ?
How long have you had the bike - was it ever OK on cold-start ?

At this point, we do not have enough info - just pure speculations...

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K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
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Last edited by sailor; Jan 31st, 2015 at 12:53 pm.
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post #13 of 18 Old Jan 31st, 2015, 1:00 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdepas View Post
I've been fighting a cold start / rough idle issue on my '05 as well. Gone through a lot of it and found minor issues along the way. SAILOR has been a huge help. Just replaced the ECU. Will be putting the plastic back on the bike this weekend and hope to get it out for a good ride or two to see if that has corrected the issue.

It's a long thread, but if you want to see what I have gone though, you can check it out HERE.
Robert (Pdrrock) did NOT say what Motronic-ECU version he has. To get this you need either:
(1) a GS911 to run AutoScan
(2) Dealers computer to read version / part number of Motronic
(3) need to remove fuel-tanks yourself, then to remove Motronic from its base to read outside sticker.

Also, Robert did not told us result of check for his engine coolant sensor using OhmMeter with engine cold (I gave him the link for the Howto).
How was the cold-start before you worked on it ?
How long have you had the bike - was it ever OK on cold-start ?

At this point, we do not have enough info - just pure speculations...
Very true. My point was to let him know the steps I went through and share what you helped me with along the way.
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post #14 of 18 Old Jan 31st, 2015, 3:17 pm
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

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Very true. My point was to let him know the steps I went through and share what you helped me with along the way.
Sorry Richard - the "pure speculation" was not aimed at anyone in particular, it is just a way to explain that we need more info - otherwise my crystal ball is a bit foggy ;-)

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K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
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post #15 of 18 Old Jan 31st, 2015, 6:33 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

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Sorry Richard - the "pure speculation" was not aimed at anyone in particular, it is just a way to explain that we need more info - otherwise my crystal ball is a bit foggy ;-)
Started my checks today. Easy stuff first. After removing the tank to check the throttle bodies and vacuum lines, I discovered I had connected the pulse valve connector to the #1 injector. Switched them back and all is well. I just sent Richard a P.M. I have been following his thread with much interest. I thank you for help.
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post #16 of 18 Old Jan 31st, 2015, 6:43 pm
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

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Originally Posted by pdrrock View Post
Started my checks today. Easy stuff first. After removing the tank to check the throttle bodies and vacuum lines, I discovered I had connected the pulse valve connector to the #1 injector. Switched them back and all is well. I just sent Richard a P.M. I have been following his thread with much interest. I thank you for help.
Great find! Always a relief when you can get to the root cause.

1973 Yamaha 250 Enduro (crash and burn)
1982 Yamaha Virago 920 (sold)
Honda CB750 Custom (sold...good riddins!)
2003 K1200LT - Black (for sale)
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post #17 of 18 Old Jan 31st, 2015, 7:04 pm
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

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Originally Posted by pdrrock View Post
Started my checks today. Easy stuff first. After removing the tank to check the throttle bodies and vacuum lines, I discovered I had connected the pulse valve connector to the #1 injector. Switched them back and all is well. I just sent Richard a P.M. I have been following his thread with much interest. I thank you for help.

Robert, thanks for the update on this. Common error as all 5 connectors are similar shape and size. HOWEVER if you look carefully, you will see that only one (the Pulse valve connector) has a GREEN/BLUE wire into connector. The 4 injectors connector on the other hand ALL have YELLOW/GREEN wire at same position.

In the case of Richard thread, I never asked him to check this because his K1200LT ran fine once it was fully warmed-up. In your case, there is NO WAY that engine will run fine in ANY condition if that Injector connectors is not plugged back where it belongs.

-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
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post #18 of 18 Old Jan 31st, 2015, 7:13 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Hard to start and rough idle ???

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Robert, thanks for the update on this. Common error as all 5 connectors are similar shape and size. HOWEVER if you look carefully, you will see that only one (the Pulse valve connector) has a GREEN/BLUE wire into connector. The 4 injectors connector on the other hand ALL have YELLOW/GREEN wire at same position.

In the case of Richard thread, I never asked him to check this because his K1200LT ran fine once it was fully warmed-up. In your case, there is NO WAY that engine will run fine in ANY condition if that Injector connectors is not plugged back where it belongs.
Wasn't sure since I can't ride it. That's how I noticed it, by the different colored wire. I felt like I was 10 and it's my birthday when I saw it. I wish Richards was that simple. Good luck and I'll be watching.
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