BMW North America's Official Windshield Response - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 32 Old Jul 30th, 2006, 2:35 am Thread Starter
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BMW North America's Official Windshield Response

A deer and I had a disagreement over who should occupy the apex of a 50 mph blind corner in Oklahoma the last week of May, the end result was I "retired" my RT but found the deal of a lifetime on a 2004 LT with BMW certified pre-owned warranty that had been purchased by another cop with 8000 miles, full bumper to bumper warranty to 2009 and 60,000 miles who decided he wanted a harley instead. The drive from Atlanta to Dallas revealed the fogged over and partial de-laminating that is ALL OVER the forums here.

Contacted BMW of Atlanta, they said "nope, won't warranty it." BMW of North Dallas? Same thing. BMW of Ft. Worth? Uh uh. Called BMW of Grand Rapids MI (thank you Blane!) and got a contact number for BMW of North America, explained my situation, that I felt this was wrong, that only 400 miles had been put on the bike from the time of purchase from BMW Atlanta, and that the windshield should have been examined before gettin' the official Beemer seal of approval--further more, if I were working traffic and saw a rider without protective eyewear using only THAT windshield (as some states allow) at dusk or in the evening, I'd have written him, so it's a safety issue as well (describing the fogging and the de-lamination that was in fingerprint-sized patches that could be scraped away).

A day later the official response was that "windshields are viewed by BMW as consumable items, like tires and brake pads, and therefore are NOT covered by warranty."

Soooooooooooo...

Help yourselves to the advice posted in other threads regarding "contact your dealer or local field manager to get a replacement" but if that works, consider yourself exceptionally lucky.

ANY cleaner containing vinegar or ammonia, I was also told, will attack and dramatically hasten the aging of the windshield laminate. With mine the "try denatured alcohol" suggestion posted by a couple of the senior members actually made the de-lamination and fogging WORSE, so I popped for a short shield (am happier now, we've had 17 of the last 20 days here in Texas exceed 102 degrees at some point) and I'll be damned if I touch that new screen with anything other than warm water.

"and that's the way it is..."--Walter Chronkite

Pete

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post #2 of 32 Old Jul 30th, 2006, 7:58 am
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Pete
That doesn't surpirse me,
It seems they (BMWNA) feel the same way about final drives.

The official response I got was something like:
We are very proud of our motorcycles,
sorry for you luck.


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post #3 of 32 Old Jul 30th, 2006, 8:36 am
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Depends upon the dealer - unfortunately

I purchased my bike used with 1,000 miles on it from the local dealer in Tampa and they replaced the windshield 2 times before I got one without distortion. Fogging was an issue on the 2nd one too. They NEVER hesitated to replace it and strongly suggested cleaning it ONLY with water which I have done for the past 20,000 miles and 4 years. To date, NO problem.

Maybe try to shop dealers, if that is possible and I strongly suggest that if it does not fog, don't put anything on it except water. If it gets coated heavily with bugs, then soak a rag and let it sit for 15 - 20 minutes. I have found that this works with 1-2 day old love bugs too.

Dano
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post #4 of 32 Old Jul 30th, 2006, 2:55 pm
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That sounds like outstanding service from the dealer. Dano
It's puzzling how some riders can have such a good relationship with a dealer
while others are dis-satisfied.
I stopped going there when he offered me 2K for my K1100LT in trade on a new LT at the retail price,
I sold the K11 on E-bay for 6K and bought my K12 somewhere else.
My feelings are: I don't mind the dealer making some $$ but he needs to give a little also.
After all he's not just selling a bike, he's gaining a customer.


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post #5 of 32 Old Jul 30th, 2006, 3:11 pm
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Hey Pete

Quote:
Originally Posted by petevandyke
ANY cleaner containing vinegar or ammonia, I was also told, will attack and dramatically hasten the aging of the windshield laminate. With mine the "try denatured alcohol" suggestion posted by a couple of the senior members actually made the de-lamination and fogging WORSE, so I popped for a short shield (am happier now, we've had 17 of the last 20 days here in Texas exceed 102 degrees at some point) and I'll be damned if I touch that new screen with anything other than warm water.
Pete
I posted this on another Thread but figure I will let you know. Although I sold my 02 LT I too had the fogging issue. One day my Mom (which owns a HobbyTownUSA hobby shop) told me "why don't you try the same stuff the kids use on their Paint Ball Masks" its a antu-fog stuff and it worked wonders.

Darcy Bastos
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post #6 of 32 Old Jul 30th, 2006, 3:26 pm
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I recall my screen "fogging" on my HD.. brand new... then one day it started "peeling"... I spent a whole night gently removing the "film"... presto! no "fogging" issues for 5 years until I sold the bike.

Coincidence? probably, but when my sheild starts peeling I'm going to do that to both sides... and see..

...............
J.M.J...
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post #7 of 32 Old Jul 30th, 2006, 7:01 pm
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Looks like they figured you just plain wore that windshield out on your 400 mile ride.

Did you ask them how many miles windshields last under normal riding conditions?

Maybe they ought to engrave ware marks on them, like tires, so we can know when to replace them.

My favorite response from them was about why I should have to waite 13 months for a replacemnt part to get my engine to run correctly.

Fortunately, it ran fine about 4 months out of 12.

Unfortunately, there are chemicals that cause the problems you have with their windshields. So, it looks as if they decided to cut losses by not replacing problem windshields.

If I'm going on a ride out of town during the summer, I put my tall windshield back on. It creates a better air pocket to protect me from the hot wx, 90-110 during our spring, summer, and fall.

Bob

Bob
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post #8 of 32 Old Jul 30th, 2006, 9:33 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petevandyke
ANY cleaner containing vinegar or ammonia, I was also told, will attack and dramatically hasten the aging of the windshield laminate. With mine the "try denatured alcohol" suggestion posted by a couple of the senior members actually made the de-lamination and fogging WORSE, so I popped for a short shield (am happier now, we've had 17 of the last 20 days here in Texas exceed 102 degrees at some point) and I'll be damned if I touch that new screen with anything other than warm water.

"and that's the way it is..."--Walter Chronkite

Pete

I never used any vinegar, ammonia or any other cleaner other than soap and water on my 2002 BMW windshield. It was toast after 8,000 miles. I bought a C. Bailey windshield and have not had a problems since. BMW windshields are just a piece of cramp and that's all I have to say about that.

Dick Wood
2014 R1200RTW Quartz Blue Metallic
Previous2008 Aventurin Silver Metallic K1200GT
Previous 2002 Toscana Green LTE
Previous 1995 HD FXDL
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post #9 of 32 Old Jul 30th, 2006, 9:53 pm
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Windshield Replaced by Chicago BMW

Chicago BMW replaced mine due to fogging. I don't recall the mileage I had on the bike but it was under warranty at the time. When the service manager asked what I had cleaned the windshield with I said that I had been using warm water. He then asked what else I had used. I said that I had not used any product on it other than the Plexus they sold expressly for that purpose. He looked at me, paused, and said something to the effect that I was the one person who had bought that! Faced with the situation that I had used a product they themselves sold he agreed to replace the windshield under warranty. At the time I felt this was a discretionary matter, so maybe the circumstances just worked in my favor.

I realize this isn't quite your situation but it does at least tell you that a dealer can get it done if they attempt, or agree, to. Unfortunately, the second windshield had more distortion in it than the first one did. I have seen other LT's with what I would call considerable distortion. Good luck with yours.

Peter Tessin
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post #10 of 32 Old Jul 30th, 2006, 10:56 pm
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Yep .... got the same response at my dealer. But they had just warranteed a couple of items so I just fixed mine the best way possible .... bought a Cee Bailey's!

Ed Apelian
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post #11 of 32 Old Jul 31st, 2006, 1:23 pm
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I find it lame and disturbing that BMW/NA would consider a windshield a "consumable item". I believe this to be a cheap way out of being responsible for a substandard item. Am I wrong in this? Do other MC manufacturers take the same position?

BTW: I too went with Cee Bailey - not because my OEM was delaminating (although it was fogging) but liked the CB wind protection better. It's a great screen.

Jacques
Dallas, TX USA
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post #12 of 32 Old Jul 31st, 2006, 2:12 pm
 
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I guess I'm a lucky one. The local BMW dealer (not where the ' 04 LT was purchased) called this morning and said the new windshield had arrived and they will install the new one on Thursday. All at no cost to me.
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post #13 of 32 Old Jul 31st, 2006, 2:58 pm Thread Starter
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Probably a load of crap...

One thing I was told at an unnamed dealership is that the cost of replacement for the 2004 LT windshields under warranty wiped out all profits for that calendar year for that model, so the decision was adopt the "consumable item" stance. Probably a line of crap, but I WOULD buy into "there was a significant cut into overall profits due to a high number of warranty replacements of windshields manufactured by a third party and installed on LT model BMW motorcycles, hence the part has been re-classified as a consumable because, on review, many of the windshields were damaged because of improper treatment."

--P

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post #14 of 32 Old Jul 31st, 2006, 3:16 pm
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I've heard all over the board about Plexus and BMW LT windshields from dealers who sell it and from vendors at rallys. When specifically asked, they all say it's no problem. What's the real deal?

Denny
02 BMW LT
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post #15 of 32 Old Jul 31st, 2006, 3:25 pm
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just fyi - my dealer (BMW of Hollywood) replaced my stock 2003 under warranty with no questions asked with about 28,000 miles on the bike.

I called them to inquire if they'd cover fogging - manager asked me to email him a few pics of the windshield, which I did, and he called me when the windshield arrived to have it installed.

Had it for about 10 months now - no more fogging.

Ted

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post #16 of 32 Old Aug 16th, 2006, 9:41 pm
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windex

My LT windshield never fogged in four years. I use Windex all the time.

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More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #17 of 32 Old Aug 16th, 2006, 10:23 pm
 
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BMW of Daytona

I just have to chime in that I bought my '05 LT from BMW of Daytona (my first BMW) and they have the best service manager of any place I've ever been, and I've had a lot of different kinds of bikes. I love my LT, but had some issues with it at first, including a quickly fogging windshield. They promptly replaced it - and they didn't have a direct replacement for the type I had so they took one off a new bike in the showroom. Given the initial problems I had, I could have easily sworn off BMWs and LTs, but the dealer made all the difference and I am now a very happy owner who wouldn't think of parting with his LT. It really is true, the dealer can make all the difference in your biking experience (I went back and bought a K1200R also).
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post #18 of 32 Old Aug 16th, 2006, 10:57 pm
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Some data for your case.

No news from me on this issue but I was properly treated by my dealer on my shield. The Euro shield on my Ď01 de-laminated in small patches; no fogging, just absent film patches. I could remove film with a fingernail. I had only used soap/water, Windex, Plexus, and Pro-Honda spray cleaner, the best I found.

At about 30k my dealer replaced the shield without dispute. The new shield has been okay since; another 25k with the same products.

I offer this as data in your pursuit of resolution. I guess Iím the lucky one. I hope you fare as well.

Bob in Indy

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post #19 of 32 Old Aug 17th, 2006, 10:17 pm
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I just took my 05' in with a fogged screen and they said ok we will order you a new one, so I think the response may have more to do with the dealer than we think.

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post #20 of 32 Old Aug 18th, 2006, 1:23 pm
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Replaced Under Warranty

I have an '03 that I bought in Feb '04, so getting near the end of the warranty. Bob's BMW agreed to replace the windshield under warranty (it's in the shop now). They're also replacing the pre-load adjuster & shock, and the trunk retaining strap.
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post #21 of 32 Old Oct 10th, 2007, 4:52 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petevandyke
A deer and I had a disagreement over who should occupy the apex of a 50 mph blind corner in Oklahoma the last week of May, the end result was I "retired" my RT but found the deal of a lifetime on a 2004 LT with BMW certified pre-owned warranty that had been purchased by another cop with 8000 miles, full bumper to bumper warranty to 2009 and 60,000 miles who decided he wanted a harley instead. The drive from Atlanta to Dallas revealed the fogged over and partial de-laminating that is ALL OVER the forums here.

Contacted BMW of Atlanta, they said "nope, won't warranty it." BMW of North Dallas? Same thing. BMW of Ft. Worth? Uh uh. Called BMW of Grand Rapids MI (thank you Blane!) and got a contact number for BMW of North America, explained my situation, that I felt this was wrong, that only 400 miles had been put on the bike from the time of purchase from BMW Atlanta, and that the windshield should have been examined before gettin' the official Beemer seal of approval--further more, if I were working traffic and saw a rider without protective eyewear using only THAT windshield (as some states allow) at dusk or in the evening, I'd have written him, so it's a safety issue as well (describing the fogging and the de-lamination that was in fingerprint-sized patches that could be scraped away).

A day later the official response was that "windshields are viewed by BMW as consumable items, like tires and brake pads, and therefore are NOT covered by warranty."

Soooooooooooo...

Help yourselves to the advice posted in other threads regarding "contact your dealer or local field manager to get a replacement" but if that works, consider yourself exceptionally lucky.

ANY cleaner containing vinegar or ammonia, I was also told, will attack and dramatically hasten the aging of the windshield laminate. With mine the "try denatured alcohol" suggestion posted by a couple of the senior members actually made the de-lamination and fogging WORSE, so I popped for a short shield (am happier now, we've had 17 of the last 20 days here in Texas exceed 102 degrees at some point) and I'll be damned if I touch that new screen with anything other than warm water.

"and that's the way it is..."--Walter Chronkite

Pete
Wow. Let me share something. Polycarbonate is a great material for shields IF it is properly coated and that coating is not damaged. Once the coating is damaged polycarbonate becomes porous and will absorb liquids. UV Rays, amonia-based products, etc. all break down these coatings. Acyrlic, the material of choice for aftermarket windshield makers Cee Baileys, Aeroflow, etc. is not damaged by amonia but scratches easily and is much more brittle polycarbonate. The trick is to find a company that uses polycarbonate and has the best coating. So far, National Cycle/ZTechnik seems to have the best combination. You can even run a steel wool pad over their shields without scratching it! I was looking for a 5-10 year shield and I think I found it!
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post #22 of 32 Old Oct 11th, 2007, 9:46 am
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Smile I got it replaced

by BMW of North Dallas back in 2002. My 2001 windsheild was messed up and they replaced it under warrenty. This was right after the issue started to surface. Times have changed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by petevandyke
A deer and I had a disagreement over who should occupy the apex of a 50 mph blind corner in Oklahoma the last week of May, the end result was I "retired" my RT but found the deal of a lifetime on a 2004 LT with BMW certified pre-owned warranty that had been purchased by another cop with 8000 miles, full bumper to bumper warranty to 2009 and 60,000 miles who decided he wanted a harley instead. The drive from Atlanta to Dallas revealed the fogged over and partial de-laminating that is ALL OVER the forums here.

Contacted BMW of Atlanta, they said "nope, won't warranty it." BMW of North Dallas? Same thing. BMW of Ft. Worth? Uh uh. Called BMW of Grand Rapids MI (thank you Blane!) and got a contact number for BMW of North America, explained my situation, that I felt this was wrong, that only 400 miles had been put on the bike from the time of purchase from BMW Atlanta, and that the windshield should have been examined before gettin' the official Beemer seal of approval--further more, if I were working traffic and saw a rider without protective eyewear using only THAT windshield (as some states allow) at dusk or in the evening, I'd have written him, so it's a safety issue as well (describing the fogging and the de-lamination that was in fingerprint-sized patches that could be scraped away).

A day later the official response was that "windshields are viewed by BMW as consumable items, like tires and brake pads, and therefore are NOT covered by warranty."

Soooooooooooo...

Help yourselves to the advice posted in other threads regarding "contact your dealer or local field manager to get a replacement" but if that works, consider yourself exceptionally lucky.

ANY cleaner containing vinegar or ammonia, I was also told, will attack and dramatically hasten the aging of the windshield laminate. With mine the "try denatured alcohol" suggestion posted by a couple of the senior members actually made the de-lamination and fogging WORSE, so I popped for a short shield (am happier now, we've had 17 of the last 20 days here in Texas exceed 102 degrees at some point) and I'll be damned if I touch that new screen with anything other than warm water.

"and that's the way it is..."--Walter Chronkite

Pete

looking around for a possible replacement



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post #23 of 32 Old Oct 11th, 2007, 10:49 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uvarider59
Wow. Let me share something. Polycarbonate is a great material for shields IF it is properly coated and that coating is not damaged. Once the coating is damaged polycarbonate becomes porous and will absorb liquids. UV Rays, amonia-based products, etc. all break down these coatings. Acyrlic, the material of choice for aftermarket windshield makers Cee Baileys, Aeroflow, etc. is not damaged by amonia but scratches easily and is much more brittle polycarbonate. The trick is to find a company that uses polycarbonate and has the best coating. So far, National Cycle/ZTechnik seems to have the best combination. You can even run a steel wool pad over their shields without scratching it! I was looking for a 5-10 year shield and I think I found it!
and I agree with what you said 110% ...not to mention polycarbonate is about 25 times stronger than acrylic.

I've taken my 5 lb. sledge hammer to an acrylic windsheild clamped in a vise just for fun - make sure you are wearing Kevlar and a full face helmet, you'll need it when the daggar sharp plastic shards literally explode all over the place.

I've also taken the same 5 lb. sledge to polycarbonate and beat on it several hundred times with full force - I finally managed to bend it over to where it would not "bounce" back.

Most of the "ZTechnic" stuff is pretty cheesey, but I'll have to agree that it is by FAR the best shield (for me, anyway) and I've owned them ALL. Their coating is superior.

Shame on the acrylic windshield makers for providing a VERY dangerous product - and why do they? Because there are no Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards for motorcycle windshields, and acrylic is less expensive - and easier to fabricate than polycarbonate.


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post #24 of 32 Old Oct 11th, 2007, 8:32 pm
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Within a year of buying Tarkus the windscreen began to fog around the edges. I pointed this out to the service manager at BMWMC of Grand Rapids. They ordered a new windshield right away and installed it all under warranty. The new one has been great. To clean I use water, soap and water, Plexus, and/or Lizard Spit. No fogging or delam.

Matt
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post #25 of 32 Old Oct 12th, 2007, 5:31 pm
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I've used Pledge on my '99 LT since new (70,000 miles) and on my other bikes. Never any fogging or problem with delamination. Still has original windscreen and is in nice shape. Also use Plexus some time to time (it costs twice as much as Pledge).
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post #26 of 32 Old Oct 12th, 2007, 7:02 pm
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Cee Baileys shields on both my bikes. After my LT's shield began to fog up I just bought a Cee Baileys and love it. Use Honda Spray polish most of the time and Novus #1 .... both work great and the shields hold up excellent. The one on my GS is over 4 years old and looks like new!! And they come in the light gray tint which I like much better than the stock clear shield.

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post #27 of 32 Old Oct 12th, 2007, 8:45 pm
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Dealer changed the windshield on my 02, it was over a year old. No problems with the replacement. Guess BMWNA is taking a hardline nowadays.

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post #28 of 32 Old Oct 12th, 2007, 10:18 pm
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I haven't checked recently ('cause my dealer hasn't been getting any new LTs recently), but a short while ago, brand new, on-the-showroom-floor LTs had a polycarbonate windshield made by National Cycle in the USA. You could see the stylized "NC" emblem on the front of the shield - as well as the BMW roundel. I assumed that NC was making the shield for BMW. The NC-made polycarbonate shields do not fog or delaminate, in my experience - but some of them may be distorted.

If the front of your shield does not have the "NC" emblem, it was probably made in Germany and may fog and/or delaminate on you.

Back when my '02 LT was still under warranty, my dealer gave me a new shield when the old one fogged. The old shield was made in Germany; the new, replacement BMW shield was made by National Cycle in the US. It did not fog or delaminate in 5 years of use.

Has anyone had a BMW polycarbonate windshield made by National Cycle fog or delaminate on them?

- Bob

Cowboy Bob Menton
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Greenville SC USA
'07 K1200GT, '83 R80S (nee '83 R80RT)
'86 Honda CH-250 scooter (original owner)
"You can never escape the FOG (Fast Old Guys)"
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post #29 of 32 Old Oct 12th, 2007, 11:10 pm
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Location: Glastonbury , CT, USA
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Optical Distortion

Bob, I bought a new National Cycle windscreen from new stock (date of mfg Jan 26 2007) at my new local BMW dealer last April. The dealer had 3 on order and gave me one that I installed just before I rode up to PEI. Long story short, I returned it to the dealer under warranty because of non typical optical distortion along the top edge. I refused to accept any of his other screens as they were also distorted. The clarity was excellent compared to my original 7 year old (will fog) shield.

Bottom line is National Cycle (NC) has a quality control problem. I contacted BMW customer support at WoodClif Lake, NJ, and Rebecca took my story and suggested I work it out with my dealer. I e-mailed Nation Cycle a few weeks ago, with photos and have not heard from them. Time to make a phone call.

So, no delamination on the old shield nor would it be expected on the new one at this time.

Enjoy your new GT ride, you "fast old guy". Barnett
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"The idea is to die young as late as possible"

Barney Rubble (rider); Wilma Flintstone (pillion).
2000LTC CHAMPAGNE, Most prominent color at early CCR's
BMWMOA 89402
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post #30 of 32 Old Oct 13th, 2007, 6:16 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petevandyke
A deer and I had a disagreement over who should occupy the apex of a 50 mph blind corner in Oklahoma the last week of May, the end result was I "retired" my RT but found the deal of a lifetime on a 2004 LT with BMW certified pre-owned warranty that had been purchased by another cop with 8000 miles, full bumper to bumper warranty to 2009 and 60,000 miles who decided he wanted a harley instead. The drive from Atlanta to Dallas revealed the fogged over and partial de-laminating that is ALL OVER the forums here.

Contacted BMW of Atlanta, they said "nope, won't warranty it." BMW of North Dallas? Same thing. BMW of Ft. Worth? Uh uh. Called BMW of Grand Rapids MI (thank you Blane!) and got a contact number for BMW of North America, explained my situation, that I felt this was wrong, that only 400 miles had been put on the bike from the time of purchase from BMW Atlanta, and that the windshield should have been examined before gettin' the official Beemer seal of approval--further more, if I were working traffic and saw a rider without protective eyewear using only THAT windshield (as some states allow) at dusk or in the evening, I'd have written him, so it's a safety issue as well (describing the fogging and the de-lamination that was in fingerprint-sized patches that could be scraped away).

A day later the official response was that "windshields are viewed by BMW as consumable items, like tires and brake pads, and therefore are NOT covered by warranty."

Soooooooooooo...

Help yourselves to the advice posted in other threads regarding "contact your dealer or local field manager to get a replacement" but if that works, consider yourself exceptionally lucky.
Pete
you bought a 4 year old bike, that the windscreen was perfect when you bought it and on your way home 400 miles later it was fogged? like the next day? I've never seen or heard of one fogging that quickly.

btw how did you make the trip from Atlanta to dallas in 400 miles? I make that trip quite often you cut it less than half! I need to know this trick


btw BMW replaced my windscreen on my LT, then again I bought the bike new and it was still under factory warranty

Tom
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post #31 of 32 Old Oct 13th, 2007, 6:22 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmatson
I just took my 05' in with a fogged screen and they said ok we will order you a new one, so I think the response may have more to do with the dealer than we think.
it was a used bike. Not bought new. makes a difference
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post #32 of 32 Old Jan 13th, 2008, 2:05 pm
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Windshield resistance to chemicals

Polycarbonates can be made buletproof, but unfortunately many of them have very poor resistance to chemicals of any kind. The polymer portion of this substance--held together with carbon groups--have varrying origins and some are better than others.
I agree that soaking with plain water is the best care that can not break down the chemical integrity of this product.
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