Dealer messing with me again? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 29 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 1:29 pm Thread Starter
 
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Dealer messing with me again?

I am not sure, but I think my dealer may be at it again.

I had my bike in to have some cosmetic warranty work done. During the conversation we discussed maintenance. They quoted me $280 for the 6k service which looks to me to be primarily an oil change with some lubrication and checking. I mention that I could probably handle the service, but I asked about the 12k service. They told me there was no way I could do that service as they had to bleed the brakes yada yada yada....

I did some research here and it seems I can indeed replace the hydraulic fluid if necessary. I have also found many instances of people doing this service themselves. So here are my questions:

1. Do I need to bleed the brakes, or just change the fluid at the 12k service?
2. The dealer told me they recommended 3k oil changes. The book says 6k. Are they trying to get some extra $ out of me? I would not let them do it, but I am going away tomorrow for a bike trip to the black hills. If I need to change the oil I will have to do it tonight.
3. Finally, I saw the Beemerboneyard had cases of Bosch filters for the K at a reasonably good price. I did not even bother to ask the dealer about this as I am sure that they would tell me it would cause a thermonuclear explosion in the bike or some other catastrophe. I will ask y'all however; any feedback on these filters?

As always thanks. your help and guidance is appreciated.
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post #2 of 29 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 1:51 pm
 
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6K service

My 6K service was$120 at Grass Roots BMW in Cape Girardeau,Mo.I change oil @ 6K as recommended.
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post #3 of 29 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 2:03 pm
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Brake Bleeding is a "dealer" function on the ABS linked system such as my '05. That requires a careful process and while it may be done, I haven't seen a detailed process here.

I do have the process on my Maintenance CD... but the "gotcha" is the dealer 'reset" of the Motronic control... only the dealer can do that because he has the correct interface.

There's the target, gentlemen... fire for effect.

...............
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post #4 of 29 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 2:21 pm
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Tom

The 3k oil change thing is a little overkill. Doesn't hurt anything. Stick with the 6k as the book recommends, you'll be fine.

If you don't feel right about running 6k, cut back to 5k or so.

BTW, sent you a PM

Good Luck and have a great trip.

Duane

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post #5 of 29 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 2:32 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfell
Brake Bleeding is a "dealer" function on the ABS linked system such as my '05. That requires a careful process and while it may be done, I haven't seen a detailed process here.

I do have the process on my Maintenance CD... but the "gotcha" is the dealer 'reset" of the Motronic control... only the dealer can do that because he has the correct interface.

There's the target, gentlemen... fire for effect.
{S PULL! -- pause 3 -- BANG!}

On re-setting the Motronic. Don't we do that by pulling the fuse and letting the beast sit for a few hours? I've done that, I know it's been suggested for other things. I even have the 'throttle posistion sensor reset' dance down pat.

Or is the ABS error/status memory location protected in some way the rest isn't?

Tate

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post #6 of 29 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 2:34 pm
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I don't know what dealer you are going to but you can check that dealer's reputation on the "dealer" area or our forum. 3K oil changes are, indeed, a marketing thing, similar to Jiffy Lube, etc. If you go by the owner's manual, you will have full warranty coverage. Yes, you can change your own oil and final drive and tranny fluid. The clutch fluid and brake fluid should be changed as in the owner's manual. aIt is best left to a pro who knows the system. The fluid is susceptible to moisture contamination and if the fluid is bad it can really cost you in repairs....ABS unit, clutch slave cylinder, etc. The $280 is not excessive if the dealer is re-torquing bolts, running the diagnostic check, etc. The filters from the Beemer Boneyard are OK to use. They are one of our sponsors and many have reported good dealings with that firm. Your bike is a very well engineered and complex machine and should have the best of care.

Dave
Monkton, MD
and Pawleys Island, SC
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post #7 of 29 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 2:34 pm
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Consider this...

An educated consumer is good. Keeps the hawkers out there honest.
Remember to weigh the pros and cons of service of your motorcycle.

Pros if you do some or all service yourself is that you become more in tune to exactly what is happening to your bike as miles accrue. If your competent you can trust that the work being done is being done well.

Pros if you have your dealer do the work is that (at least with my dealer) that the competent technicians that are there working on your bike will be there tomorrow and hopefully well into the future to accomodate your motorcycling needs.

Cons if you work on your own bike. The time required will be taken from some other thing in the household that needs attention. You may rush the work and not do such a great job. These could lead to unintended consequences.

Cons if you don't use your dealer. They go out of business and the next closest requires an overnight stay.

Cons if you do use your dealer. Your wallet is going to get lighter.

And on and on.

Simply do the research, weigh the pros and cons, make the decision and be confident that you did the best that you could.

Ok now. Do I hit the post button. Hmmmmmm. {click}

Mark D.
Groveland,MA
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1993 ST1100 (retired)
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post #8 of 29 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 2:54 pm
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Annual Service

Quote:
Originally Posted by mowoc
...but I asked about the 12k service. They told me there was no way I could do that service as they had to bleed the brakes yada yada yada....
I'm pretty sure the flushing of the brake/clutch system is part of the annual and not the 12K, otherwise I'd be doing it twice a year ...at least

Jeff Davis
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Last edited by ustasub; Jul 20th, 2006 at 2:56 pm. Reason: addition
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post #9 of 29 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 3:01 pm
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As per BMW, the brake system should be flushed out every 2 years. It is independant of the amount of miles on the bike.

With regard to the services at 6 & 12K, there is a list of all the tasks available on this site.

White dealer were you visiting? There are 4 in Colorado. Since you are in Erie, I assume you are visiting the one in Fort Collins. What I can tell you is, the absolute best dealer in Colorado in my opinion for service is BMW of Denver in Aurora. They give it to you straight, have the most reasonable pricing and really go out of the way for their clients.

The service manager's name is Martin. I would contact him.. 303.755.6400
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post #10 of 29 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 4:40 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowoc
I am not sure, but I think my dealer may be at it again.

I had my bike in to have some cosmetic warranty work done. During the conversation we discussed maintenance. They quoted me $280 for the 6k service which looks to me to be primarily an oil change with some lubrication and checking. I mention that I could probably handle the service, but I asked about the 12k service. They told me there was no way I could do that service as they had to bleed the brakes yada yada yada....
1. Do I need to bleed the brakes, or just change the fluid at the 12k service?
As always thanks. your help and guidance is appreciated.
ok on the abs integrated power brakes right from the maintence schedule

[Integral ABS] change brake fluid in wheel circuit at least every 12 months
[Integral ABS] change brake fluid in control circuit at least every 2 years *)

[Integral ABS] perform bleed test with BMW MoDiTeC anually

I have my wheel and control circuits done every year on both our '02 BMW's my dealer is fair to us on price it isn;t that much more expensive to do the full brake flush, it gets done about every july or august my next appointment is for aug 12 for both bikes

it is not needed every 12k miles just anually

Tom

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(the only bmw's in the stable)
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post #11 of 29 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 5:01 pm
 
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Change your own fluids, but buy all of the stuff from the dealer. They like that. Have the dealer do the brake thang once a year...they like that too. Oh, and...buy the guys in back a pizza once a year. Just the cheap stuff. It's amazing what $20 worth of pizza buys a Beemer owner.
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post #12 of 29 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 5:40 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
Change your own fluids, but buy all of the stuff from the dealer. They like that. Have the dealer do the brake thang once a year...they like that too. Oh, and...buy the guys in back a pizza once a year. Just the cheap stuff. It's amazing what $20 worth of pizza buys a Beemer owner.
$20 worth of pizza - I would say it buys a full stomach!
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post #13 of 29 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 6:19 pm
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You can do it!

Check out the Hall of Wisdom in the Technical section, under Maintenance, Brakes.

Mark Neblett did a really good document on the brake flushing.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
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post #14 of 29 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 6:51 pm
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Ditto what David said. I have done the wheel circuit twice and the the control circuit once on my 05. It is a bit more complicated than most but not rocket science. You are not really "bleeding" the brakes but rather a flush of fluid. If you are careful and don't introduce air it is easy.

The Moditec check is just that a final check to ensure you did not introduce air. Mark's article gave me the courage to tackle it the first time and I posted my addendum for the 05 in the files section. You do need a special tool which is made out of a 7mm box end to get to two of the bleed nipples. The rest can be hit with just a regular wrench.

John
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post #15 of 29 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 11:55 am Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for all the replies. You have confirmed what I was thinking about the service.

As for the the dealer it is Foot Hills BMW in Lakeland. I don't think they are necessarily trying to stick me, but they certainly would not turn away a dollar if presented.

I also read the write up in the HOW (before I originally posted this thread). It made the whole process pretty straight forward. I am going to try this when I hit 12k.

Finally, I bet this is a loaded question but here it goes. I know the MoDoDiTec thingy is a computer that the dealer uses to service our bikes. Can I get one? It seems this is the missing link in doing all of my service myself.
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post #16 of 29 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 12:46 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowoc
---------------Finally, I bet this is a loaded question but here it goes. I know the MoDoDiTec thingy is a computer that the dealer uses to service our bikes. Can I get one? It seems this is the missing link in doing all of my service myself.
This is tightly controlled by BMW. I know if you want the BMW GT-1 car system, you can buy it, but it is $17,500! You can buy a less expensive BMW "Software Service Station", which is a modified desktop PC (no monitor) for about $6,000, and add $400 for the software. I was looking into this for my BMW cars. Needless to say, I passed.

If anyone is interested, you can get Technical Service Bulletins and special tools, including the above equipment for BMW AUTOMOBILES from:
http://www.centrallettershop.com/
Nothing for motorcycles though.

I think the only way you may be able to get the Bike one is one from a dealer going out of business or something like that. Even if you got one, you probably could not get the periodic updates that would be needed if you ever got a bike of a later model than it was set up for.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
No bike now, but maybe in the future.
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post #17 of 29 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 1:49 pm
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I've often wondered why there weren't aftermarket scan tools that could access the MoDiTec unit, similar to the scan tools used by some auto parts stores to scan for codes in cars. I understand that most generic scan tools are set up for OBD-II compliant vehicles (and the BMW motorcycles aren't), but with the proper software and diagnostic interface connection, it would be possible. I suspect the big problem is that BMW is not too willing to share the proprietary software of the unit with any aftermarket scan tool suppliers, and the cost of reverse engineering the thing would most likely outweigh what they could recoup on sales (plus, I'm sure BMW would file a lovely lawsuit for copyright infringement on the software.)
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post #18 of 29 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 2:03 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tat_n_Telle
I've often wondered why there weren't aftermarket scan tools that could access the MoDiTec unit, similar to the scan tools used by some auto parts stores to scan for codes in cars. I understand that most generic scan tools are set up for OBD-II compliant vehicles (and the BMW motorcycles aren't), but with the proper software and diagnostic interface connection, it would be possible. I suspect the big problem is that BMW is not too willing to share the proprietary software of the unit with any aftermarket scan tool suppliers, and the cost of reverse engineering the thing would most likely outweigh what they could recoup on sales (plus, I'm sure BMW would file a lovely lawsuit for copyright infringement on the software.)
There are aftermarket ones for BMW cars, CarSoft is the most known one, but I checked into that one and it is about $3000, and they will not sell to individuals, only licensed repair shops! Idiots.

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work...I want to achieve it through not dying.

David Shealey
Dandridge, TN
EX: '01 Black LT, BAT BYKE (Totaled at 110,000 miles)
IBA SS, BB, BBG, 10/10ths.
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post #19 of 29 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 5:21 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowoc
Thanks for all the replies. You have confirmed what I was thinking about the service.

As for the the dealer it is Foot Hills BMW in Lakeland. I don't think they are necessarily trying to stick me, but they certainly would not turn away a dollar if presented.

I also read the write up in the HOW (before I originally posted this thread). It made the whole process pretty straight forward. I am going to try this when I hit 12k.

Finally, I bet this is a loaded question but here it goes. I know the MoDoDiTec thingy is a computer that the dealer uses to service our bikes. Can I get one? It seems this is the missing link in doing all of my service myself.
I know the guys at Foothills BMW pretty well. My bike was originally one of their demos that was purchased by the person that owned it before me. He didn't really use it and sold it to me with 800 miles on it.

My experience has been that they are honest. But, quite frankly they certainly don't give anything away and charge premium prices for their work. They have been fine to work with, but I don't agree with alot of what they tell people.

Again, BMW Of Denver in Aurora is a far better and more reasonably priced dealer to go to.. They have treated me significantly better then Foothills.

Good Luck
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post #20 of 29 Old Jul 25th, 2006, 10:41 am Thread Starter
 
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Thanks as always. I figured I could not get the unit

Oh well. If I really want to work on a bike all the time I guess I will just have to get a harley.


I was thinking of changing dealers however. I was going to check out BMW of Denver for the service schedule.
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post #21 of 29 Old Jul 25th, 2006, 12:11 pm
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One of our members has been working on making a code reader. Haven't heard anything from him in a while. Any one else hear any updates on this project?
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post #22 of 29 Old Dec 30th, 2008, 4:16 pm
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Re: Dealer messing with me again?

I just wanted to put my 2 cents worth in!

I love my K1200LT! I would change the oil every 3K miles in a heartbeat! See if your dealer will work with you on the cost of the ABS reset.

Steve
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post #23 of 29 Old Dec 30th, 2008, 4:33 pm
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Re: Dealer messing with me again?

I love hanging around my dealer. From time to time they have a bike in the back that some owner screwed up attempting maintenance or fixing it. The owner screwed up so bad that the dealer had to fix. Attempting to save $$$ and it ends up costing $$$.

My two cents worth. I do not do my own service, I believe the good certified dealer should.

John
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post #24 of 29 Old Dec 30th, 2008, 5:05 pm
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Re: Dealer messing with me again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman587
I love hanging around my dealer. From time to time they have a bike in the back that some owner screwed up attempting maintenance or fixing it. The owner screwed up so bad that the dealer had to fix. Attempting to save $$$ and it ends up costing $$$.

My two cents worth. I do not do my own service, I believe the good certified dealer should.
Yabut, what fun is that?



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post #25 of 29 Old Dec 30th, 2008, 7:36 pm
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Re: Dealer messing with me again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Yabut, what fun is that?
Really there aint no better fun then someone opening up him home for friends & family to work on bikes, eat good food & tell lies.

Stevie Shreeve
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post #26 of 29 Old Dec 31st, 2008, 10:33 am
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Re: Dealer messing with me again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by katnapinn
Really there aint no better fun then someone opening up him home for friends & family to work on bikes, eat good food & tell lies.
+1. Good time for all.

"BONES" <///><
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post #27 of 29 Old Jan 2nd, 2009, 2:05 am
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Re: Dealer messing with me again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smartypants
I would change the oil every 3K miles in a heartbeat!
Why? BMW's recommendation is every 6K for oil changes. Doing it every 3K simply wastes oil and cash.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
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post #28 of 29 Old Jan 2nd, 2009, 2:41 am
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Re: Dealer messing with me again?

The after market GS911 unit is a very helpful tool in accessing the LT's electronic system, diagnosing many 'faults', correcting the source of the problem in many cases, and even clearing out the faults in the LT's 'memory'. The unit is available in either hard-wire use b/w a laptop or via BlueTooth interface.
As for flushing of the Wheel Circuit and Integral Circuit of the 05 or newer LT, I had the pleasure of working with John Zeiler at the 07 CCR and refined my understanding of the operation and copied a couple things from John such as the bent-end 7mm wrench for working atop the Integral Pump. We flushed the braking system on Gilles' 05 LT during the CCR. No one should think that the entire procedure is beyond their raw aptitude but it does require one to think and it takes time. Perhaps, it is best to observe the operation the first time at a good Tech Session when it is performed by someone like John or even me...thanks, John!
There is certainly a lot to be said for the wonderful disclosure of information shared by many on this forum. I've certainly done my share of asking for help. HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Terry
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post #29 of 29 Old Jan 4th, 2009, 4:46 am
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Re: Dealer messing with me again?

YEs it does cost $$$ to go to the dealer- Maybe I am a prisoner to my dealer in that sense, but If I don't go to my dealer- where would I go then?
yeh last oil change and QI was a BMW (bring money- will'ya?) sucker upper...

I do know I get some valuable information there and if they do close the place down... I will have the mechanics phone number closeby.

Don't be afraid to say what you feel, as those that matter DOnt mind and those that mind Dont matter.
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