Crash cause - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 15 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 9:47 am Thread Starter
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Crash cause

Some may remember my crash May this year, when dismantling the bike to repair (plastic weld) broken parts I found the two ABS warning light bulbs have been removed from back of instrument panel. Would have been a good idea to read instruction book on ABS system prior to riding I recon. I figured no warning lights system is OK.
Wreck was caused by locked front brake which had not happened before as I had tried to lock the brakes on several occasions. I bought the bike from original owner last Oct., he said nothing about removing the bulbs. I feel that I was set up for accident by his not warning about inoperative anti skid system. I have since found out that selling "as is" has no legal standing when it comes to a safety feature that has been disabled. I'm seriously considering getting a lawyer and going after the original owner, he owns a truck dealership and should have been fully aware that selling a vehicle with a known safety feature disabled is not the correct thing to do.
Sonny
2000 K 1200LTC
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post #2 of 15 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 9:50 am
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That is like selling a plane with the landing gear warning lights disabled - take him to the cleaners - were you badly hurt?

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post #3 of 15 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 11:23 am
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Don't let jackasses get away with putting your life in danger for a few bucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chockkicker
I found the two ABS warning light bulbs have been removed from back of instrument panel...

Wreck was caused by locked front brake...

I'm seriously considering getting a lawyer and going after the original owner...
Stop considering it and do it! TODAY!!

Call around for a reputable plaintiffs' attorney and set up an initial consult. It'll be free. Bring all relevant paperwork (bill of sale, crash report, every post you've made about it here, etc.) with you. Do it now. It will not cost you anything. The whole case should be on contingency (lawyer doesn't get paid unless he wins for you).

And do not say anything more about it here - until the case ends.
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post #4 of 15 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 11:53 am
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Ditto to what's been said already. You've been wronged. It should be a simple matter to pull the service history on the bike to see if it's ever been in for an ABS problem, and what the resolution was.

Best of luck.
-joel
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post #5 of 15 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 1:01 pm
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Injuries

Well,
I would like to inquire about injuries... Injury and serious bodily injury... this is defined by your states revised statutes.

First off,
Negligence... I would address that with your attorney.

Intentional Negligence...I would address this as well.

Accident causing serious bodily injury(disfigurements, broken bones, etc)

Being a Car dealership, and selling a motorvehicle, it was Sold by a dealer in a position of trust......

During inspections, these vehicles cannot pass if the check engine light is on...etc. So the crappy dealers remove these bulbs and have their "friends" do the inspection. Because all of these lights HAVE to come on when the key is turned on, but then goes out once the vehicle is started.

So, the last inspection on the bike...I would name that facility in your lawsuit as well.

So at this juncture, I would name the salesperson, the dealership, as well as the inspection facility, as well as the actual person conducting the inspection. Then if the accident involved anyone else and they were deemed at fault or COULD be suggested as being at fault, I would ad their names in this to.

Keep in mind, you are looking at most attorneys wanting 5-8K for a retainer for this type of suit, as for the "contingency" attorney....um... yea, not gonna happen in this type of suit... MAYBE if he is a close friend, owes you a favor, a racquetball/golf buddy...etc. Or, simply if he is a new or unexperienced attorney.

I cannot speak in detail about why I am confident about my above post, but just know I am speaking from experience, and that if you do it right, you will make out ok.

Bill

Colorado Springs, CO
2003 K1200LTE "Infinite"
2002 HD FXDL "Kristi"
2002 K1200RS "Monique"
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1988 K75s no name
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post #6 of 15 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 2:49 pm Thread Starter
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Usual road rash by getting off at 60mph and bouncing down the middle of asphalt hyway, 5 broke ribs on left side, sprained right wrist

Sonny
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post #7 of 15 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 4:25 pm
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obviously SBI

Well, as I said, there are only 2 states in the nation that I cannot verify their Serious Bodily Injury statute, that is Arkansas an Alaska..... Every other state is similar, all have their own takes, but the common denominator is the "Broken Bone" element of the statute. So, not sure where you are now, or where this happened, but chances are you fill out under that element.

I am not one for abuse of the CJ system, but in your case, I would file the lawsuit immediately.

One other thing....who discovered the ABS lights were removed? You? Dealership? Law Enforcement? Did you get a written statement of this finding? Did you photograph the empty sockets? What documentation did you take and record to validate this claim that you are possibly filing 3mos later?

Bill

Colorado Springs, CO
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2002 HD FXDL "Kristi"
2002 K1200RS "Monique"
1996 R1100RT "Kami"
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post #8 of 15 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 5:22 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieceofficer

One other thing....who discovered the ABS lights were removed? You? Dealership? Law Enforcement? Did you get a written statement of this finding? Did you photograph the empty sockets? What documentation did you take and record to validate this claim that you are possibly filing 3mos later?
I am doing the work myself, I have two witnesses that saw the bulbs were missing, I do have photos. Reason for delay is that I was not able to work on bike due to injuries and am still unable to do much. At 68 yeas old I find my *snap back* has lost a lot of its elasticity , but I'll geter done one way or t'udder.

Sonny
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post #9 of 15 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 6:47 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chockkicker
Wreck was caused by locked front brake which had not happened before as I had tried to lock the brakes on several occasions.
Hi Chockicker,

Before going to your attorney, I'd give serious consideration to what you've stated in your original post.

As I understand it, having read your original post, you confirm that you did personally test the ABS system, not once, but on "several occasions", and I take it that since you also state that the front wheel has never locked before, you are confirming that since owning the bike the ABS system was at least working at some stage. Given that you have stated that during your "own testing", the front brake did not lock on during either of the several tests.

I would suggest you do some reasearch as to whether the bulbs being missing could really disable the ABS system entirely.

If it can, and that would seem to be the basis of your allegation of negligence on the part of the seller, you might have a difficult time explaining why the system was working fine during the "several tests" you performed personally, prior to your accident occuring.

Explaining who removed the ABS bulb will be your word against his. And since you've had possession of the bike since the crash, it might be difficult to counter any suggestion that you personally removed the bulbs, so as to make the seller appear culpable, so that you could then sue him.

Then theres your duty/responsibility to make yourself familiar with the safety features of vehicle/bike your driving/riding before you drive/ride the vehicle.

You have to way all these things up. But your attorney (if he's any good) will take you through all the pro's and con's prior to taking any action.

Hope it all works out Ok, one way or the other.

Cheers

Barry
Brisbane
Australia
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post #10 of 15 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 6:53 pm
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I am not taking the dealers side here.

But He's just going to claim he didn't know that the lamps were missing..

Or that they were even supposed to flash in the first place..

And the inspection folks will claim the same thing.

If the dealer got the bike from an individual that had removed the lamps, the dealer might not have a way to know about it. Especially since he's not a BMW dealer and probably doesn't primarily sell bikes for a living...

You might be able to go after the previous owner, but he'll just blame it on the dealer,,,,etc....etc...etc.......

I truly hope that after what you've gone through you can get some kind of satisfaction out of this..

But my scepticism of the world tells me you're just going to pay an attorney and not be able to win... I hope i'm wrong.....REally.....

Good Luck and I hope you heal up soon and feel good enough to get revenge on whomever is responsible for your wreck....

Life just sucks sometimes... Especially when you're the little guy...

John

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post #11 of 15 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 8:46 pm Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=barryst1100]Hi Chockicker,


As I understand it, having read your original post, you confirm that you did personally test the ABS system, not once, but on "several occasions", and I take it that since you also state that the front wheel has never locked before, you are confirming that since owning the bike the ABS system was at least working at some stage. Given that you have stated that during your "own testing", the front brake did not lock on during either of the several tests.

I would suggest you do some reasearch as to whether the bulbs being missing could really disable the ABS system entirely.

Explaining who removed the ABS bulb will be your word against his. And since you've had possession of the bike since the crash, it might be difficult to counter any suggestion that you personally removed the bulbs, so as to make the seller appear culpable, so that you could then sue him.

You have to way all these things up. But your attorney (if he's any good) will take you through all the pro's and con's prior to taking any action.

Cheers

Barry

The ABS worked everytime I practiced panic stopping so the problem with it must have been intermittent, I'm sure removing the warning bulbs does not affect the working of the ABS system. The guy I bought the bike from is the origional owner, he bought new from a dealership in Birmingham Ala. that has since went out of business or changed hands. I have checked all the warrenty work done on Bike, in the process now of trying to get the service records.
I probably do not have a legal standing as I am the one that found bulbs missing, it does piz me off that the origional owner set me up for accident by disabling a warning system.
Thanks for all the advice

Sonny
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post #12 of 15 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 6:20 pm
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Well now!

Depends on who removed the bulbs and can you prove it. Would be handy to have all the service records, might have been done by one of the dealer's techs. Doubt the missing bulbs caused the anti lock to not work but suspect that the bulbs might have been removed to mask the fact there might be a problem with the anti lock. Ever check the price on one? Original owner might not have been aware of it if done by someone else. Most folks turn on the ignition and see if all the warning lights work, if one doesn't they investigate, some are completely clueless on such matters.

I would reserve legal action against a person unless you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that they intentionally caused you harm/grief. Remember that taking someone into a court of law and stirring fecal matter will surely result in some of it getting on you, no matter what.

Unfortunate you had an accident but consider yourself lucky to be on this side of the green grass, not paralyzed, disfigured, in possesion of your senses and back to enjoying life. Appears you have learned a lesson on life and dealings with others on the way.

B D R
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post #13 of 15 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 6:48 pm
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Cause and effect...

I possible see if the bike ever had a ABS problem at the dealership.
I am not sure but I think Dealers always keep records and if they go out of business most states require retention of records for at least 7 years on safety and smog equipment repairs. BMWNA may be able to help also.
Having the brakes work then not only means they work sometimes. As your current dealer if there are errors that could cause the lights to dance but not disable the ABS and then see if they can run a motronic history on the ABS as it records data such as this.
Hate to see a fellow rider hurt, but hate even more to think someone would set them up to fall.

Go through the steps carefully, backtrack and keep good notes.

Good luck and heal well!

Bob Weir KC6VHS
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post #14 of 15 Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 12:39 pm
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Smile ABS lights

I can give you my experiences with the ABS brake lights and two dealerships. My ABS pump supposedly is non-working, still wondering how hitting a bump in the road would cause this, but that is when it happened. The fact that the pump does not work has been verified by two dealerships. I asked both dealers to remove the bulbs for the ABS, neither would do it, stating legal issues. So if my bulbs are to be removed, it will have to be done by me or some individual. Now if the rest of the BMW dealers have the same position on this, well, you may be standing in high corn one day. :-)

hth

John Carver
K1200LTC, AMA, BMWMOA
Greensboro, GA

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post #15 of 15 Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 1:52 pm
 
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Coming from a family of PI Attorneys, you need SOLID EVIDENCE that you have a case of neglect plus more SOLID EVIDENCE that supports the notion that your injuries resulted from non-functional ABS. Good luck.
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