if it was a horse i would shoot it - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2014, 12:19 am Thread Starter
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if it was a horse i would shoot it

Well my 1999 k1200LT has me pulling my hair out. Still has hesitation and dies sometimes (frequently) . Have had the fuel filter and hose changed, wires and plugs before I got it. Did the cannister thing when I first got it.
Ordered and installed a oxygen sensor manipulator from Beemer boneyard and no noticeable difference.
I have noticed if I am going along and make a quick stop it seems as if it cannot recover and dies, almost as if gas shifts in the tank and picks up sludge or something.
Tomorrow I will remove the manipulator and see if it will idle better, what is weird with that thing in there is that as soon as it gets to mid range temperature it will finally idle. It will not idle until then.
Most people have trouble when the engine gets hotter from the air temp sensor in the air box. Therefore cutting the brown wire for that particular fix. Am open to any idea no matter how extreme as I am near bald
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post #2 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2014, 1:51 am
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Re: if it was a horse i would shoot it

You may just need a new O2 sensor. If the motor runs ok until it warms up and then has problems, that's a good indication of a bad O2 sensor which the new manipulator is unable to compensate for. You can try unplugging the O2 sensor and see how it runs as that will force the engine into a temperature controlled pre-programmed fuel map. If it runs good with the sensor unplugged, that's likely your problem.


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post #3 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2014, 8:04 am
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Re: if it was a horse i would shoot it

Quote:
Originally Posted by mexicoboy View Post
Well my 1999 k1200LT has me pulling my hair out. Still has hesitation and dies sometimes (frequently) . Have had the fuel filter and hose changed, wires and plugs before I got it. Did the cannister thing when I first got it.
Ordered and installed a oxygen sensor manipulator from Beemer boneyard and no noticeable difference.
I have noticed if I am going along and make a quick stop it seems as if it cannot recover and dies, almost as if gas shifts in the tank and picks up sludge or something.
Tomorrow I will remove the manipulator and see if it will idle better, what is weird with that thing in there is that as soon as it gets to mid range temperature it will finally idle. It will not idle until then.
Most people have trouble when the engine gets hotter from the air temp sensor in the air box. Therefore cutting the brown wire for that particular fix. Am open to any idea no matter how extreme as I am near bald

You said: "... as soon as it gets to mid range temperature it will finally idle. It will not idle until then. "

hence, I would check that the engine coolant sensor is sending correct value to fuel-management. You can do a rough static test (ignition OFF) when engine is cold (wait at least 8 hours after shut-down).
Check this post with more data and a link to a series of pictures:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/k1200lt/...ml#post1001529

-------------------------------------------------
John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
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post #4 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2014, 9:54 am Thread Starter
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Re: if it was a horse i would shoot it

Ok new day will start over.
Biggest problem I have bar none is that this thing stalls out, I have never had a bike, especially a bike with fuel injection that would do this, it is dangerous.
I described something wrong I believe, Bike will not idle until it hits about mid point temperature, still sometimes in stop and go it will die anyway.
After getting it out of the shop it has run perfectly once or twice and then back to poopy. Surging is a problem also.
I am going to disconnect the oxygen sensor to see what that does.
When I got it back from BMW they told me that the only fault was in the automatic choke. Now I am not sure but I doubt it has such a thing.
At any rate when she runs she runs and no way I actually shoot her as these bike while fussy are the best
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post #5 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2014, 10:05 am Thread Starter
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Re: if it was a horse i would shoot it

Forgot to mention that gas mileage is in the toilet also around 30 mpg or so, even in stop and go that is bad right?
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post #6 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2014, 10:18 am
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Re: if it was a horse i would shoot it

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Originally Posted by mexicoboy View Post
Ok new day will start over.
Biggest problem I have bar none is that this thing stalls out, I have never had a bike, especially a bike with fuel injection that would do this, it is dangerous.
I described something wrong I believe, Bike will not idle until it hits about mid point temperature, still sometimes in stop and go it will die anyway.
After getting it out of the shop it has run perfectly once or twice and then back to poopy. Surging is a problem also.
I am going to disconnect the oxygen sensor to see what that does.
When I got it back from BMW they told me that the only fault was in the automatic choke. Now I am not sure but I doubt it has such a thing.
At any rate when she runs she runs and no way I actually shoot her as these bike while fussy are the best
On the K1200RS and K1200LT, there is no such thing as an automatic choke - using such expression is a simplification that means nothing in the context of these EFI engines. With Motronic 2.4 and the BING 4 throttle-bodies-assy, what you have in these is:
(1) An idle-actuator (also called TVA) that will increase and stabilize idle speed under control of EFI unit (Motronic). The TVA is basically a simple stepper-motor that pushes on throttle-linkage. See attache picture for location...

(2) When engine is cold, the EFI-unit will send pulse to TVA stepper-motor to increase idle and the EFI-unit will also adjust fuel mixture accordingly.

(3) Although there is a base screw settings (1 screw for 4 throttle-assy) it should not be messed with as it affects other components like the TPS (throttle-position-sensor)

(4) The idle-actuator (TVA) is not easy to test for proper function, however a good simple test is when you activate reverse mode. During reverse operation, the idle is automatically increades by sending pulses to the TVA.

As I posted earlier, I would do a quick check for resistance values of engine coolant temp sensor. If you have access to a GS911 it would help as some components (TVA, TPS, engine temp sensor) will log an error when out of limit values are found (or in case of incorrect connection). In addition, a GS911 will show you Oxygen-sensor real-time data so you can check if functionning within acceptable range.
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John (Montreal, CANADA)
K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------------
Think twice before you hit [SUBMIT REPLY] - famous quote by another member:
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Last edited by sailor; Nov 15th, 2014 at 10:28 am.
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post #7 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2014, 10:47 am Thread Starter
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Re: if it was a horse i would shoot it

A little history which may not help much is this bike suffered a meltdown , first of the reverser and then second of major wiring harness due to starter hang up.
Therefore as a result of bad mechanics before it went to BMW dealer reverser no longer works. Wiring harness was done correctly, in retrospect the bike has always run the same.
Guy who sold it to me said to let the fuel injector cleaner run thru it and it would be better, wrong.
When dealer did wiring he said the same thing, wrong.
The one time reverse was tried before it burned up it went like a bat outta hell going backwards so no way to tell if TVA is working or not and no tester available here. I can say this as it never idles higher when I first start it or at any other time
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post #8 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2014, 11:35 am
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Re: if it was a horse i would shoot it

The simplest thing to do is ohm out the engine temp sensor

Gary
2018 R1200RT
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post #9 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2014, 12:54 pm Thread Starter
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Re: if it was a horse i would shoot it

Ok I agree it would be the simplest thing to check. Only other question is would it actually also be the reason for it do die at stop signs etc.?
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post #10 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2014, 3:53 pm
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Re: if it was a horse i would shoot it

Quote:
Originally Posted by mexicoboy View Post
Ok I agree it would be the simplest thing to check. Only other question is would it actually also be the reason for it do die at stop signs etc.?
I had a K1100LT that took a year for me to find that the engine temp. sensor was intermittent. I would be riding along and the bike would just quit. Wait a minute or two and it would restart. Then I noticed that it seemed to be temperature related. It turned out that the ECU thought the engine was cold so it went into full rich mode which made the bike die from too much fuel.
It almost sounds as if you are chasing two problems at the same time. I would check/change the engine temp sensor and the oxygen sensor and cross my fingers.

Robert

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)


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1994 R1100RSL (wife's)
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post #11 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2014, 6:42 pm Thread Starter
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Re: if it was a horse i would shoot it

Well shucks
Removed the manipulator and then removed the air box sensor wire. Bike runs fine now, at least it will idle and now to put some miles on it . Hate to rub it in but here in Mexico we can almost ride nonstop.
I want to thank everybody for your help and suggestions.
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post #12 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2014, 7:03 pm
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Re: if it was a horse i would shoot it

I changed my TVA , the idol was getting flakey & the bike would stall. It helped but I haven't road it enough know if I really got it fixed. GS911 said the TPS was off too....

Patric Blackman
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post #13 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2014, 7:33 pm
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Re: if it was a horse i would shoot it

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I have noticed if I am going along and make a quick stop it seems as if it cannot recover and dies,
That sounds like a vacuum leak. If the bike has had the canister removed check the hose going to the engine that it is still plugged.

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post #14 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2015, 8:56 am
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I recently purchased a 2002 with the same behavior. I started putting additive into the fuel which seems a little ridiculous but worked. I'm only getting 175 miles out of a tank full. Which I should be closer to 240 miles. This last time I ran out of gas it seemed to provoke the engine cutting out to the point of being unsafe. Thanks for the tread at least I have an idea what to do rather than chasing my tail. Let me know if you have any updates. I'm probably going to wait till spring to fix it
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post #15 of 15 Old Nov 15th, 2015, 2:19 pm
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Re: if it was a horse i would shoot it

Keep in mind that Mexico Boy's bike had a couple different issues going on.... Not the least of which, could be crappy Mexican gas.

You should be getting mileage in the low to high 40's unless you ride at speeds over 75 All The Time.

Low mpg & poor performance kind of reminds me of a bad O2 sensor.
Why not start there?

Rand & Susan Hawksworth
2000 K1200LT
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