Mobil 20-50/Mobil 10-40/Extended 15-50? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 44 Old Jul 12th, 2006, 12:32 pm Thread Starter
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Question Mobil 20-50/Mobil 10-40/Extended 15-50?

Went Syn Oil shopping while in Wallyworld and spied all the different synthetic Mobil 1 oils now available.

What is the concensus of " Which " Mobil 1 to use in our LT's now that so many options are available?


Mobil 1 V-Twin 20-50
Mobil 1 MX4 10-40
Mobil 1 Extended performance 15- 50
Mobil 1 Red cap
Mobil 1 gold Cap

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post #2 of 44 Old Jul 12th, 2006, 12:49 pm
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Out of those choices I would say the V-Twin 20/50. Why? Well, it is made for a motorcycle (yes v-twins are motorcycles ) so it has the important additive stuff we need, BMW does recommend 20/50 weight for the LT, and since it works well in the HOT Harley V-Twin motor our cooler running LT's should work great on the stuff. Just my non mechanical, uninformed, opinion.

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post #3 of 44 Old Jul 12th, 2006, 1:36 pm Thread Starter
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I came to the same conclusion Jerry. V-Twin 20-50 for the weight or the 10-40 for year round...

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post #4 of 44 Old Jul 12th, 2006, 6:02 pm
 
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The V-twin motorcycle oil uses the best base oils and additives and has the best specifications of the oils listed and is the only 1 that Mobil recommends, and BMW has stated to only use motorcycle specific oils.

You can compare 28 motorcycle oils with 11 standard tests in this 25 page March 2006 report at http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf . Mobil 1 V-twin came in second and BMW synthetic, third.

Last edited by TimVipond; Jul 12th, 2006 at 6:34 pm.
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post #5 of 44 Old Jul 12th, 2006, 7:37 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks for the Quantified reading Tim!

That settles it for MOBIL 1, V-Twin 20-50 it is !

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post #6 of 44 Old Jul 12th, 2006, 10:36 pm
 
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usmctpdg - Have you met a friend of mine? He is the 12th Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps (Ret) His name is Gene Overstreet. He served as the Seargeant Major under President Clinton and I believe a few others. He rides a 2000 K1200LT, Canyon Red. He is now the President/CEO of the NCOA.
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post #7 of 44 Old Jul 13th, 2006, 6:41 am
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Mobil 1 V Twin is just named for marketing purposes. You can use it in any motorcycle application that requires 20w-50w.
By the way we will be vendors at the BMW MOA in Vermont and we will bring a very limited amount of V Twin oil with us for those of you who will be doing oil changes at the rally. If your interested contact me A.S.A.P.
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post #8 of 44 Old Jul 13th, 2006, 8:05 pm
 
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Mobil 1

When they came out with the Gold cap, I had some 15-50 car Mobil 1 analyzed. had as good an additive package as the better motorcycle oils! Only difference is the price. By the way, the "50" is important, the difference between the "15" and the "20" at the beginning is not so important.
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post #9 of 44 Old Jul 13th, 2006, 9:18 pm
 
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HarvRead - there is now a big difference in test performance between the Mobil 1 Gold Cap and the V-twin. The V-twin has a 40C higher flash point to withstand higher temps, much lower Noak volatility for less evaporative loss and sludge formation, lower wear scar in the 4 ball test (probably due to more antiwear metals that are not allowed in API-SM car oils), and much better HTHS numbers that would help keep viscosity in grade longer (the Gold Cap would finish dead last in the 28 motorcycle oil comparison on www.amsoil.com). So if you compare test by test the Gold Cap vs the V-twin oil, you can easily tell a big difference between these two oils, almost like they were made by two different companies. The base oils are likely different as is the additive package. As with most things, you get what you pay for.

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post #10 of 44 Old Jul 13th, 2006, 11:27 pm
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Unless, of course, it has BMW or HD printed on it.

It seems as if Castrol 20W50W works pretty good.

Bob
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post #11 of 44 Old Jul 13th, 2006, 11:42 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BecketMa
It seems as if Castrol 20W50W works pretty good.

Bob
From what I've seen so far it doesn't. The factory fill is with Castrol 20W50 and it sheared down to a 20 weight in 600 miles according to the used oil analysis found on this web site.

In this report https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf Castrol GPS and V-twin took last places.

What make you think Castrol 20W50 works good?
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post #12 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 2:43 am
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Wally world has Castrol Motorcycle oil for 2.50 a quart... Hmmm... I have been using that in motorcycles that run alot hotter and higher RPMs then the LT and it has an SG rating... Sounds like a winner to me... Let's see, do I spend 10.00 on an oil change or 40.00+.. Mostly highway miles less then 5000 rpms on an engine more like a car then a motorcycle ????
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post #13 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 6:48 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rglassma
Wally world has Castrol Motorcycle oil for 2.50 a quart... Hmmm... I have been using that in motorcycles that run alot hotter and higher RPMs then the LT and it has an SG rating... Sounds like a winner to me... Let's see, do I spend 10.00 on an oil change or 40.00+.. Mostly highway miles less then 5000 rpms on an engine more like a car then a motorcycle ????
If your running your LT like a car then the RPMS at highway speeds for a typical modern 4 cyl is more like 2500-3000 at highway speeds.........not even close to 5000 rpms. The simple fact is motorcycles turn more rpms, turn more horsepower per cubic inch, and run much hotter then the modern auto.
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post #14 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 7:34 am
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Usually about 3000 rpms - 3500 rpms but never above 5000 rpms when pushing it. My LT spins at about 3000 rpms at 65 mph. My 6 cylinder Nissan pathfinder spins 3400 rpms at 65 mph..

Most of the time during the year here in CO, the temperature is below 90 degrees as well. I change my oil approx. every 3000 miles and have never waited longer.

I think alot of what is read about motorcycle oil is hype and a way to charge more. I have purchased some synthetic oil, Castrol Syntec, but still haven't used it... I may just put it in my car..

I don't know how most of you ride your bike, but I don't live at 5000 rpms and I don't think I have ever hit red line ... I have been satisfied with the performance for long trips and don't have a need to really push the bike.

Last edited by rglassma; Jul 14th, 2006 at 7:41 am.
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post #15 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 7:42 am
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Have used Mobile 1 15W50 in all my bikes including the LT (Lady Tiger). Usually shifting up between 4500 - 6K RMP. Settling down at 4K highway speeds. Exit ramps downshifting revving to 5K-6K scrubbing off speed to the stop signs.

Giver er the gas man! The more ya tickle the the beast the better she likes it!

Chuck J

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post #16 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 7:49 am
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The bike serves me well. No doubt about it. I just don't find the need to kick the crxp out of it.. Not to mention that gasoline is too expensive to be cutting into my fuel economy by living a high spinning life. I'd rather save the money and buy something nice for the bike then burn it up.

I need proof via historical data indicating the impact that various oils have had on the longevity of an engine via engine life stats and variations caused by different oils (not a statistical table showing viscosity levels)

In my opinion that is all just white coat debate and conjecture. Real world comparisons and historical data is proof not the my oil is better then your oil because marketing hype. At the cost difference we are talking about, it just doesn't make sense to me to pay 4 times the amount of money for synthetic motorcycle oil.. It isn't logical in my opinion. I would rather change oil more frequently. It certainly hasn't been proven in any real world way.

Anyone have any proof based on enginle lifetime comparisons, history, etc.??

Last edited by rglassma; Jul 14th, 2006 at 7:55 am.
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post #17 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 7:55 am
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Quote:
Anyone have any proof based on enginle lifetime comparisons, history, etc.??
I'll let you know in another 100K miles... and I only change my oil every 10K miles!!

Chuck J

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post #18 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 7:58 am
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I asked my BMW dealer about extending the length of oil changes beyond the recommended with synthetic oil . The answer was, it isn't recommended. Since I am not a master mechanic, I find it difficult to justify taking that kind of a chance.
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post #19 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 9:13 am
 
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Rglassma,

Did you read the article I posted above? Did you see how the Castrol viscosity sheared from a 50 wt oil to a 40 wt oil in an ASTM standard oil test? Most of the motorcycle oils did not do that. Did you read the oil analysis posted from one of our members that the viscosity in his K1200LT Castrol oil went from 50 wt at zero miles to a 20 wt in 600 miles? Did you see how some motorcycle oils protect against corrosion and others don't do nearly as well?

The only oil I would extend the oil changes past the manufacturers recommended interval would be one that has a proven written parts and labor warranty should the oil fail, tests consistantly at the top of its class, has proven itself in my previous 137,000 mile K1200LT with 12,000 mile oil change intervals, and proven itself with extended oil changes over the past 30 plus years with used oil analyses.

I have a hard time understanding why people want to save a few bucks purchasing lesser oils on one of the finest $20,000 touring motorcycles. Actually, with the gasoline savings that synthetics have proven over petroleum oils and the extended change intervals, they actually cost less. Plus you save on the labor involved.

To each their own... I'm glad these brand comparisons take place as it will persuade the manufacturers to make better products. Hopefully, sales will follow published performance.
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post #20 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 9:29 am
 
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Synthetic Oils

Here is a very good read on synthetic oils. I have been using Amsoil in Motor,Transmission and Drive for 20,000 miles with great results. It is the only true full sythetic oil on the market.

www.oilsandlube.com "And no I don't work for Amsoil"
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post #21 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 10:55 am Thread Starter
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This has been an interesting read and I wanted to toss in a few other ideas of consequence;

Oil is a business and not an altruistic endevour.

I have recently read and I will try to find it to post, an engineer posted his thesis via a web page that we do indeed change our oil far too often and that the filter is "better" at doing it's job later in life than when first installed. He recommended 2-3 oil changes per oil filter change.

Further, Thru empirical chemical testing he showed that the late model Camaro with Mobil 1 did not need it's oil changed until 18,000 miles!
It was still providing superior protection and got better with more miles of use. This was done via chemical testing every 1000 miles.

I have personally run Castrol 20-50 dino car oil in my Harley's for 30 years without problem. I do believe that Synthetic oil is far superior to dino oil but to what end is often open ended in our own situation as we as MC owners often do not keep the motors long enough to realize any longer life benefits synthetic oil would provide. In addition, there are many many owners with high mileage motors who only used dino oil with no detriment
to engine life.

Someone already pointed out alot of this is white coat theory and marketing. BMW cars come with Syn from the factory and recommend oil changes @ 15,000 mi intervals.

I run Rotella Synthetic in my V-Strom, Jeep and Chevy PU, and will run some type of Synthetic in my LT as I wish to own this bike a very long time.

Good Reading Gents, Continue!

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post #22 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 11:47 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rglassma
Usually about 3000 rpms - 3500 rpms but never above 5000 rpms when pushing it. My LT spins at about 3000 rpms at 65 mph. My 6 cylinder Nissan pathfinder spins 3400 rpms at 65 mph..

Most of the time during the year here in CO, the temperature is below 90 degrees as well. I change my oil approx. every 3000 miles and have never waited longer.

I think alot of what is read about motorcycle oil is hype and a way to charge more. I have purchased some synthetic oil, Castrol Syntec, but still haven't used it... I may just put it in my car..

I don't know how most of you ride your bike, but I don't live at 5000 rpms and I don't think I have ever hit red line ... I have been satisfied with the performance for long trips and don't have a need to really push the bike.
Seems like you have some pretty low gears in that Pathfinder, I would see no reason for a V6 to be turning that high rpms, but then again what do I know about Pathfiders. My wifes Audi 6 speed 2.0 4 cyl turbo turns about 2800rpm
at 65. I also might add that it came with Mobil 1 from the factory and with recommend 15,000 mile or 1 year oil changes. I'll check the Lt the next time I'm out with the GPS since the speedo is probably off 6 mph at those speeds.
The point of the matter is you still run to 5000 rpm with the Lt which I doubt you ever do with the Pathfinder. The Pathfinder has a much larger cooling reservoir then the Lt, much easier on oil then a motorcycle engine. My shift points on the Lt are anywhere from 2800 to 6500 rpm, much higher then when I drive Audi. I also might add that I rarely get below 50 mpg on the Lt
For those of you who have used automotive oils in the past, things are very different now. The additive package is very specific to what application it was designed for.
Oh, and for the "hype" of motorcycle oils. There's no more hype in that then the Castrol TV adds recommending 3000 mile oil changes. You belive that don't you?
For those you attending the Vermont rally, I belive Mobil is have a seminar there.......you may want to direct you questions to the experts.
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post #23 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 2:09 pm
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Just had to go out and check it out . LT indicated GPS 65 MPH 3700 rpm.
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post #24 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 3:58 pm
 
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post #25 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 3:59 pm
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I concur whole heartedly. I change the oil in my Honda Accord every 10K miles with synthetic 5W20. This is what the owner's manual calls for.

Me and She-who-must-be-obeyed were out looking for a new car. We looked at a BMW 330CI rag top...nice car! When I opened the hood, I saw the oil filler cap and right on it was the Castrol logo. Also, one of our fine dealers, Bob's BMW, uses Castrol in his oil changes on all BMW motorcycles unless synthetic is requested by the customer.

In my '87 Mercedes 300 TD, I use what ever is on sale----305,000 miles..she don't care!

PS She didn't get the 330ci...way too much money......got a Toyota Solara ragtop and saved enough for a new GT!

Dave
Monkton, MD
and Pawleys Island, SC
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post #26 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 4:33 pm Thread Starter
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Dave,
I Like the 330i myself and when the BMW dealer in Roseville offered me
$16,000 in trade towards a lightly used 04 Red 330i BMW Reps 8,000 mile 4 door with Sport, leather and weather package for my 97 HD Flhtcui I jumped for my checkbook to make it happen.

Unfortunately by the time I made it into the F&I office the HD riding sales manager came off the pipe and changed his tune on trade in credit.

LOL!!!

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2007 Black Suzuki DL1000 V-Strom - Sold
2007 Red Moto Guzzi Norge 1200 - Sold
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2005 PearlBlue FJR1300 (Sold)
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post #27 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 5:07 pm
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Fortunately, there is a lot of information about consumer behavior. One fascinating area is risk taking-avoidance, especially when consumers have to make choices and won't know the outcome, unless it is catastrophic.

A seminal article is in Nature, by Kahanman and Traversky. It has been a few decades since I read the article, so I may have forgotten how to spell the authors' last names. I seem to remember the article was titled "Prospect Theory".

In essence, when the results are identical, more people avoid a negative outcome than choose a positive outcome. More people choose to bet when they are told what the chances are of winning vrs not betting when told what the chances of failure are, even then the odds and pay out are identical.

Add some goop to oil, or sell goop as an additive, tell people if they don't buy your goop, something catastrophic will happen, some people become goopers.

Write an article about how vitamins are important, ask people to select between plant food with and without vitamins, and more people opt for plant food with vitamins. The control group reads an article not mentioning vitamins, and fewer people select plant food with vitamins. Vitamins have no effect on plant growth.

Anyone still got some STP hanging around? Carter's Little Liver Pills?

There are about 4 times as many 1999 1 oz USA gold coins than there are 2000 1 oz USA gold coins. Remember how the world would be in plunged into chaos in Y2K?

Bob, 00LT
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post #28 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 5:30 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nplenzick
Seems like you have some pretty low gears in that Pathfinder, I would see no reason for a V6 to be turning that high rpms, but then again what do I know about Pathfiders. My wifes Audi 6 speed 2.0 4 cyl turbo turns about 2800rpm
at 65. I also might add that it came with Mobil 1 from the factory and with recommend 15,000 mile or 1 year oil changes. I'll check the Lt the next time I'm out with the GPS since the speedo is probably off 6 mph at those speeds.
The point of the matter is you still run to 5000 rpm with the Lt which I doubt you ever do with the Pathfinder. The Pathfinder has a much larger cooling reservoir then the Lt, much easier on oil then a motorcycle engine. My shift points on the Lt are anywhere from 2800 to 6500 rpm, much higher then when I drive Audi. I also might add that I rarely get below 50 mpg on the Lt
For those of you who have used automotive oils in the past, things are very different now. The additive package is very specific to what application it was designed for.
Oh, and for the "hype" of motorcycle oils. There's no more hype in that then the Castrol TV adds recommending 3000 mile oil changes. You belive that don't you?
For those you attending the Vermont rally, I belive Mobil is have a seminar there.......you may want to direct you questions to the experts.

Excuse me, I just drove the car and looked. it spins at 3300 rpms at 65 mph. My mistake, I was off 100 rpms. Oh well, I'll do better next time.

I think we are all after the same thing here. It just hasn't been proven to me that I would be better off using something else. Maybe it will happen someday, may be not. Only time will tell.

I do have some castrol syntec full synthetic. Anyone have a problem with using that. It says it is rated as required by BMW. I don't know much about motor oils and I would rather not debate an issue that I don't know much about. That just shows pig headedness and stupidity..
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post #29 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 5:31 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nplenzick
Seems like you have some pretty low gears in that Pathfinder, I would see no reason for a V6 to be turning that high rpms, but then again what do I know about Pathfiders. My wifes Audi 6 speed 2.0 4 cyl turbo turns about 2800rpm
at 65. I also might add that it came with Mobil 1 from the factory and with recommend 15,000 mile or 1 year oil changes. I'll check the Lt the next time I'm out with the GPS since the speedo is probably off 6 mph at those speeds.
The point of the matter is you still run to 5000 rpm with the Lt which I doubt you ever do with the Pathfinder. The Pathfinder has a much larger cooling reservoir then the Lt, much easier on oil then a motorcycle engine. My shift points on the Lt are anywhere from 2800 to 6500 rpm, much higher then when I drive Audi. I also might add that I rarely get below 50 mpg on the Lt
For those of you who have used automotive oils in the past, things are very different now. The additive package is very specific to what application it was designed for.
Oh, and for the "hype" of motorcycle oils. There's no more hype in that then the Castrol TV adds recommending 3000 mile oil changes. You belive that don't you?
For those you attending the Vermont rally, I belive Mobil is have a seminar there.......you may want to direct you questions to the experts.

Excuse me, I just drove the car and looked. it spins at 3300 rpms at 65 mph. My mistake, I was off 100 rpms. Oh well, I'll do better next time. Yeah it is geared rather high. It is a 3.0 liter engine with very little torque.

I think we are all after the same thing here. It just hasn't been proven to me that I would be better off using something else. Maybe it will happen someday, may be not. Only time will tell.

I do have some castrol syntec full synthetic. Anyone have a problem with using that. It says it is rated as required by BMW. I don't know much about motor oils and I would rather not debate an issue that I don't know much about. That just shows pig headedness and stupidity..
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post #30 of 44 Old Jul 14th, 2006, 7:26 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rglassma
I do have some castrol syntec full synthetic. Anyone have a problem with using that. It says it is rated as required by BMW. I don't know much about motor oils and I would rather not debate an issue that I don't know much about. That just shows pig headedness and stupidity..
I don't have a problem with that, it's your bike. If it is under warranty, BMWNA says it will void your warranty (for an engine oiled part) if you do not use a motorcycle specific oil. If you use a Castrol car oil, you might call BMWNA and Castrol to see if they recommend that oil for your motorcycle. I don't think they will. That oil is API SJ, SL and SM which is outside the classifications listed in your owners manual. These newer oils have less anti-wear metals due to new EPA constraints and catalytic converter requirements. Car and motorcycle oils are very different these days.
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post #31 of 44 Old Jul 15th, 2006, 6:15 am
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There is no documentation to the best of my knowledge indicating that the warrenty will be voided if you do not use a motorcycle specific oil. The only spec is SG rating... Where did you get that?? The BMW dealer that I go to, BMW of Denver also confirmed that to me the last time we discussed oil..

My bike is out of warrenty, but I have an extended so it still is of concern.
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post #32 of 44 Old Jul 15th, 2006, 2:08 pm
 
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rglassma - I've posted twice an email I got from BMWNA that they will void related warranty work for using non motorcycle specific motor oil. Don't want to post it again as it is fairly long. Search for it and I'm sure you will find. I don't know if your extended warranty company requires it. You may wish to call them and check as you may have to produce receipts of oil you bought in event of a claim.

My 2006 owners manual specifies API SF, SG or SH and others have published BMW tech notes that SJ is not to be used.
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post #33 of 44 Old Jul 15th, 2006, 6:11 pm
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Hi Tim,

I am aware of your letter ... I saw it when you originally posted it. If I recall, several members brought out issues that questioned the credibility of what was said and the knowledge of the individual that wrote it.

That is going directly against the information that two local dealers have been giving me about what will void the warranty.

So, you got me.

I am aware that SJ is not supported. The Castrol Syntec that I have is compatible with what is in the owners manual and the service manual ..

One last thing, I found this thread on the bmwmotorcycle forums that addresses the use of specific oils in K & R engines.. This contradicts what has been said about using only motorcycle oil in a K:

http://bmwmotorcycles.com/mvnforum/v...=1077&offset=0

Now I don't know what to believe.

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post #34 of 44 Old Jul 15th, 2006, 7:01 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
HarvRead - there is now a big difference in test performance between the Mobil 1 Gold Cap and the V-twin. The V-twin has a 40C higher flash point to withstand higher temps, much lower Noak volatility for less evaporative loss and sludge formation, lower wear scar in the 4 ball test (probably due to more antiwear metals that are not allowed in API-SM car oils), and much better HTHS numbers that would help keep viscosity in grade longer (the Gold Cap would finish dead last in the 28 motorcycle oil comparison on www.amsoil.com). So if you compare test by test the Gold Cap vs the V-twin oil, you can easily tell a big difference between these two oils, almost like they were made by two different companies. The base oils are likely different as is the additive package. As with most things, you get what you pay for.
Tim, I'm not sure I'd put much stock in a study by Amsoil that rated their arch-rival dead last, sounds like a conflict of interest to me. Personaly, I consider Mobil1 as "overkill" even though I use it, after 215k my engine runs well.
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post #35 of 44 Old Jul 15th, 2006, 7:03 pm
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Is that mobil 1 motorcycle oil or auto oil.

I have been using Castrol Grand Prix 4-stroke motorcycle oil from Walmart at 20w50 for about 4 years on 3 different bikes. It cost about 2.35 a quart, is SG rated and seems to be fine.

I checked out the Castrol Syntec specs and along with SG it also says SJ. So, I guess that means it is out, right???
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post #36 of 44 Old Jul 15th, 2006, 7:19 pm
 
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I'm sure Castrol has read the report and if their tests results were different I would think they would state so and sue for slander. Sounds pretty quiet from Castrol, so I guess they don't disagree. I'm hoping this will wake them up and spend some money to make better products. Then we all win.
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post #37 of 44 Old Jul 15th, 2006, 8:59 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rglassma
Is that mobil 1 motorcycle oil or auto oil.

I have been using Castrol Grand Prix 4-stroke motorcycle oil from Walmart at 20w50 for about 4 years on 3 different bikes. It cost about 2.35 a quart, is SG rated and seems to be fine.

I checked out the Castrol Syntec specs and along with SG it also says SJ. So, I guess that means it is out, right???

Good Grief People!!!!!

This is getting silly!!!

Here's some FACTS...make your own judgements..

--Kawasaki brand oil is NOT SJ...its SL!!!!! You know, the ZX14 guys...180+ HP. Shame they aren'et as "smart" as BMW engineers. (who brought us the rear end we all know and love )
--Suzuki brand oil is SJ! Shame they don't know they are ruining their engines!
--Yamalube m/c oil is SJ! Just imagine how their poor owners are being swindled...after all, SJ?????
--Contrary to posts on this list and common perception there are MANY cars today with higher HP/Liter than our LTs. My Wife's Cobra (4.6 L, currently in the neighborhood of 450 RWHP), BMW M3's, my Acura RSX-S, Suburu WRX, etc. Most have synth fills from the factory and ALL use SJ!!!!! GASP!!!! Why isn't it that we aren't all getting flats from the shrapnel being spread as these poor, under-oiled engines grenade themselves all over the country???
--About the famous BMW service bulletin... its over 8 years old, doesn't even mention the LT and since BMW doesn't/won't release them, how could ANY BMW owner even know about it let alone be held "accountable" for not complying with it?????
--I've also heard about a "letter" from BMWNA that states that they will not honor the warranty for any motor that didn't have "motorcycle" oil in it... Hmmmm... I never got it, I don't know anyone who got it... My owners manual doesn't say that and neither does the warranty book for my LT, GS or Wife's GT so just what "standing" does it have???

I'm sorry but while oil threads are often held up to the same ridicue as political and gun threads, IMHO they are even WORSE!

I've NEVER heard a first person account from a BMW owner (or any other brand for that matter) of an engine failure due to the use of an "inadequate" oil.

Here's what "I" do, feel free to imitate, modify or ignore as you see fit.

I put in oil...
--of the appropriate weight...
--of a major brand...
--usually synth...
--changes every 5k miles (easy to remeber 5's and 0's )
--if I go to 7 or 8 k because of a trip I don't/won't lose sleep about it.

I seem to remember a famous saying on this list . . . how did it go???



Oh yeah....

JUST RIDE IT!!!!!

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post #38 of 44 Old Jul 15th, 2006, 10:08 pm
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Excuse me for looking for information and guidance that is not obvious to me. Not all of us have the extensive knowledge and experience about the standards that you spout off like it is something that we all should know. Last time I looked, we don't have a kawi or a suzuki or any other rice burner.. The only thing from what I understand is that the SJ standard requires lower ppm figures on some additives.

My problem is that I spend too much time riding and not enough time geeking about this crap. When someone tells me the oil I am using is crap, I obviously want to do something about it !!!

Nobody wants to make a mistake and use the wrong stuff. Especially considering the price of maintenance on these beasts. If I have a problem i'll just tow her to Texas where you can fix her for me in your well stocked commercial motorcycle repair shop.

Thank you for your self righteous diatriabe. By the way, I am sorry I asked !!!

Last edited by rglassma; Jul 15th, 2006 at 10:17 pm.
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post #39 of 44 Old Jul 15th, 2006, 10:19 pm
 
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Steve,

I don't see why you are bringing up Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki oils. I am sure they are formulated to meet the minimum requirements of Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki motorcycles. These motorcycles generally require 10W40 motorcycle oils and do the job well enough to keep their motorcycles running well at least until their warranties run out. Are they the best possible brand oils for their bikes? Probably not. Do these manufacturers want their motorcycles to run forever without wear and tear? Probably not. Might cut into their sales. Do they have their own R&D oil department and refineries or do they come up with minimum specifications and contract it to third party oil companies who have the winning bid who might cut corners to make the oil less expensive? Maybe?

The K1200LT has different oil requirements from those bikes and even some other BMW motorcycles. They are all different engines and transmissions so we shouldn't be suprised they have different oil requirements. There is no one oil that is best for all engines.

As far as oil related engine failures? Thousands. Some vehicle manufacturers have had to re-evaluate and change their oil and oil change recommendations because of an unusual amount of these type failures.

But I do agree with some of your final conclusions with a few more of my own.

Read your owners manual and comply with their recommendations for API grades, viscosity for expected ambient air temperatures, JASO and anything else they recommend. If you want to try a car oil or one different from their recommendations, contact their technical department and ask them if it will meet their warranty requirements. Then if you want the best, look for comparison data which can show if they maintain their viscosity, ability to resist foaming, corrosion, oxidation, acidity, compare warranties, compare price, and any other parameter you consider important. Try a couple and see what you like. Many people notice a change in gas mileage, engine temperatures, and shifting just by changing oil brands. You can even have a used oil analysis performed for around $20 to check the condition of your engine and oil. I run my motorcycles hard and for a minimum of a hundred thousand miles and I try to choose the best oil available.
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post #40 of 44 Old Jul 16th, 2006, 9:49 am
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I know we are beating this thing to death again, but I have spent hours on the web looking for information about motorcycle oil and over and above the amsoil test (which is pretty cool), the ibmworg info, I found a very interesting test done by one individual that further shows the quality of Mobil One V Twin 2W50.. Here is the link for all that are interested: You have to read through it a bit:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.m...ad760c17741b0e

I think I am interested in Mobil one now....

Tim can you contact me off line so we can talk about this further.. I think I have seen the light... But, I still don't understand the difference in performance between Mobil 1 auto oil and the VTwin stuff..

Thanks.
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post #41 of 44 Old Jul 16th, 2006, 10:50 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rglassma
Excuse me for looking for information and guidance that is not obvious to me. Not all of us have the extensive knowledge and experience about the standards that you spout off like it is something that we all should know. Last time I looked, we don't have a kawi or a suzuki or any other rice burner.. The only thing from what I understand is that the SJ standard requires lower ppm figures on some additives.

My problem is that I spend too much time riding and not enough time geeking about this crap. When someone tells me the oil I am using is crap, I obviously want to do something about it !!!

Nobody wants to make a mistake and use the wrong stuff. Especially considering the price of maintenance on these beasts. If I have a problem i'll just tow her to Texas where you can fix her for me in your well stocked commercial motorcycle repair shop.

Thank you for your self righteous diatriabe. By the way, I am sorry I asked !!!
Jeeeeeeze Dude.... try chillin' out a little bit. My post was general in nature and merely picked up on yours where SL oil was brought up. And if your "feelers" were hurt by my diatribe you need to nut up a bit.

I guess I didn't use enough smiley faces to suit you????

I do see how you have the appropriate BMW "tude" about "rice burners" though...

Sheeeeeesh...
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post #42 of 44 Old Jul 16th, 2006, 11:03 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimVipond
Steve,

I don't see why you are bringing up Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki oils. I am sure they are formulated to meet the minimum requirements of Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki motorcycles. These motorcycles generally require 10W40 motorcycle oils and do the job well enough to keep their motorcycles running well at least until their warranties run out. Are they the best possible brand oils for their bikes? Probably not. Do these manufacturers want their motorcycles to run forever without wear and tear? Probably not. Might cut into their sales. Do they have their own R&D oil department and refineries or do they come up with minimum specifications and contract it to third party oil companies who have the winning bid who might cut corners to make the oil less expensive? Maybe?

The K1200LT has different oil requirements from those bikes and even some other BMW motorcycles. They are all different engines and transmissions so we shouldn't be suprised they have different oil requirements. There is no one oil that is best for all engines.

As far as oil related engine failures? Thousands. Some vehicle manufacturers have had to re-evaluate and change their oil and oil change recommendations because of an unusual amount of these type failures.

But I do agree with some of your final conclusions with a few more of my own.

Read your owners manual and comply with their recommendations for API grades, viscosity for expected ambient air temperatures, JASO and anything else they recommend. If you want to try a car oil or one different from their recommendations, contact their technical department and ask them if it will meet their warranty requirements. Then if you want the best, look for comparison data which can show if they maintain their viscosity, ability to resist foaming, corrosion, oxidation, acidity, compare warranties, compare price, and any other parameter you consider important. Try a couple and see what you like. Many people notice a change in gas mileage, engine temperatures, and shifting just by changing oil brands. You can even have a used oil analysis performed for around $20 to check the condition of your engine and oil. I run my motorcycles hard and for a minimum of a hundred thousand miles and I try to choose the best oil available.
Tim, while I appreciate your calm response I must say that believing that the makers of some of the highest permance vehicles on the planet recommend and SELL SL rated oils in a deliberate attempt to have "short lived" engines to fuel rapid replacement to be a little "over the top"... As to the REASON I brought them up, it was to illistrate the lack of validity in the hysteria over the SL oil rating.

OBTW, you misquoted me on engine failures. I didn't say there weren't instances of failures, what I said was that I don't know of ANY first-hand failures due to a SUBSTANDARD oil. I have never heard of or read about a BMW engine, or any other for that matter, that failed because it had SL, SJ, or energy conserving oil.

Like I said in my original post, oil threads are WORSE than religious or gun threads.

I tried posting to this thread using irony and smilies to reduce the level of hysteria regarding the subject.... After all the years on this list and the internet in general I shoulda known better.
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post #43 of 44 Old Jul 16th, 2006, 5:55 pm
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Maybe you should change your tag line to "Just Steve being Steve"? ;-)
Bob
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post #44 of 44 Old Jul 16th, 2006, 7:46 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k12steve
Jeeeeeeze Dude.... try chillin' out a little bit. My post was general in nature and merely picked up on yours where SL oil was brought up. And if your "feelers" were hurt by my diatribe you need to nut up a bit.

I guess I didn't use enough smiley faces to suit you????

I do see how you have the appropriate BMW "tude" about "rice burners" though...

Sheeeeeesh...
Steve, I think Rice Burners are great. All I ever owned were rice burners before the LT. I took your mesasge to mean "hey stupid, what is the big deal". When someone doesn't know me and talks like that, I do take offense as I believe anyone would. It was right after my post, so it is reasonable to believe you were talking to me.

I am sure I am not the only stupid BMW rider that doesn't know a whole lot about oil. If you don't have something nice to say, why say anything??? You sound like my kids.. " Gee dad, uhhh chill out man..." .. Thanks for patronizing me.

Grow up Steve.
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