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post #1 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 12:56 pm Thread Starter
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New BMW owner needs help!!!

I just bought a 2002 K1200LT with 30000 miles. The clutch seems to slip when I accelerate hard, especially in higher gears pulling up hill. When I try to accelerate hard, the engine revs. Everything works properly under normal acceleration. Any suggestions as to what could be wrong? Any adjustments on the clutch. Thanks for your help.
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post #2 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 1:08 pm
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Please fill out your profile so that we know who you are. As for your clutch, it may be the slave cylinder leaking that is causing clutch fluid to spray onto the clutch disk. The only fix for this is to replace the entire clutch assembly as well as the slave cylinder. Hopefully, you purchased your bike through a dealer who will cover this repair as it will be near $2k. It is unusual for the clutch to wear at only 30k miles unless it was ridden extremely hard.

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2000 LT - Totaled at 99,960 miles


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post #3 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 2:42 pm Thread Starter
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More Info

I rode the bike hard Thursday night and didn't notice the clutch slipping. I changed the engine oil and filter Friday. I know this is probably a silly question, but is it normal to have oil pour out of the filter cover when removing it to replace the filter? The clutch started slipping Sat after I had done the oil change. Could the oil change cause the clutch slippage?
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post #4 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 2:44 pm Thread Starter
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I updated my profile and added more info to my post. Thanks for the help!
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post #5 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 2:49 pm
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The oil filter is in the oil sump so it's very normal for oil to still be there after removing the drain plug. It's not connected to the clutch or transmission so it should have no effect on your clutch perfomance.

Check your clutch fluid level per the manual. If it's low your slave cylinder may be leaking fluid on the clutch disc causing it to slip. It's a rare problem but it can happen. It's an expensive repair because of all the labor.

How much oil did you put in the bike after the change? The book says 4 qts but 3qts and 12 oz will fill mine above the dot. 4qts will be over full and may damage the rear main seal.
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post #6 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 2:57 pm Thread Starter
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About 3.5 qts. I used the sight glass. I'll check the clutch fluid level. Thanks
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post #7 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 3:01 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiekiel
I rode the bike hard Thursday night and didn't notice the clutch slipping. I changed the engine oil and filter Friday. I know this is probably a silly question, but is it normal to have oil pour out of the filter cover when removing it to replace the filter? The clutch started slipping Sat after I had done the oil change. Could the oil change cause the clutch slippage?
The filter is contained within the wet sump, so yes, normal. Many of us never remove the oil drain plug, and just loosen the cover to drain old oil.

As for the slipping clutch, it's possible that the rear main seal is leaking. Take off the lower cover on the right side and see if there is oil seaping from the seam between the engine and tranny, up on the side. Sometimes a change of oil, like from organic to synthetic will set it off. The seal can shrink, for a variety of reasons. This happened to my 2001 at about 65k miles.

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post #8 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 3:39 pm Thread Starter
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I removed the top of the clutch fluid reservoir to check fluid level (couldn't tell through sight glass). Should the rubber diaphragm in the cover stick out or be pushed up inside the cover?
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post #9 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 3:42 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiekiel
I removed the top of the clutch fluid reservoir to check fluid level (couldn't tell through sight glass). Should the rubber diaphragm in the cover stick out or be pushed up inside the cover?
When full it will be up in the cover. It's designed to pull down into the space created by receding fluid, thus leaving little airspace.

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post #10 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 3:48 pm Thread Starter
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When I removed the cover, it was down---making the fluid level read above the sight glass. I put it back up in the up position. The fluid level is now near the bottom of the glass. Also, the clutch engages as the clutch lever nears full release.
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post #11 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 3:53 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiekiel
When I removed the cover, it was down---making the fluid level read above the sight glass. I put it back up in the up position. The fluid level is now near the bottom of the glass. Also, the clutch engages as the clutch lever nears full release.
Sounds like you have a leaky slave cylinder then.

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post #12 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 4:30 pm Thread Starter
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While reading through the previous owner's service records, I noticed that the rear pinion seal had been replace under warranty 3 times-- 14000, 22000, and 26000 miles--the last one 1 year ago. Would this have contributed to my clutch problem?
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post #13 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 4:40 pm Thread Starter
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Oil Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by munson
The filter is contained within the wet sump, so yes, normal. Many of us never remove the oil drain plug, and just loosen the cover to drain old oil.

As for the slipping clutch, it's possible that the rear main seal is leaking. Take off the lower cover on the right side and see if there is oil seaping from the seam between the engine and tranny, up on the side. Sometimes a change of oil, like from organic to synthetic will set it off. The seal can shrink, for a variety of reasons. This happened to my 2001 at about 65k miles.

Munson,
I checked the previous owner's oil change records. He had used Mobil 1 synthetic since new, but changed to Castro ACT-EVO organic oil at 25000 miles. I put the Mobil 1 back in when I changed it at 30000 miles. No apparent leak.
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post #14 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 9:27 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiekiel
Munson,
I checked the previous owner's oil change records. He had used Mobil 1 synthetic since new, but changed to Castro ACT-EVO organic oil at 25000 miles. I put the Mobil 1 back in when I changed it at 30000 miles. No apparent leak.

Thanks for the responses. Any other thoughts?
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post #15 of 33 Old Jul 10th, 2006, 10:33 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiekiel
Thanks for the responses. Any other thoughts?
Sorry to say, but you need to strip the bike down and change the clutch, slave cylinder, and all related seals. That's a $1,400-$1,500 job at the dealers, mostly due to two full days labor. It may not slip every time you ride, but it sure won't get better by itself.

FWIW, mine is doing the same thing at 82K miles. Not every time I ride, but often enough to be a problem. Like you, I'm looking at a huge repair bill, or several days of seriously dirty work plus several hundred in parts costs.

Ken
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'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
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'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
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post #16 of 33 Old Jul 11th, 2006, 10:10 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiekiel
Thanks for the responses. Any other thoughts?
I have to agree with Ken on this one.

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post #17 of 33 Old Jul 11th, 2006, 11:44 am Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. Unless someone else has a solution, looks like I'll put it in the shop in Nashville. I'm located in N Alabama between Nashville, Birmingham, and Memphis. On another thread, everyone recommended Nashville. Sound like good advice?
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post #18 of 33 Old Jul 11th, 2006, 1:17 pm Thread Starter
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This bike was bought new in Nov 2002. Any chance that warranty might cover part of this? The bike just rolled over 30K miles.
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post #19 of 33 Old Jul 11th, 2006, 9:58 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiekiel
This bike was bought new in Nov 2002. Any chance that warranty might cover part of this? The bike just rolled over 30K miles.
BMW is 36K or 3 years from original in service date.. So I guess you are on your own.

Jack D. (Southern Connecticut)
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post #20 of 33 Old Jul 11th, 2006, 11:03 pm
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If you talk to the dealer reeeeel nice and ask for him/her to help, ya might get them to contact BMW on your bee-haf... besides, whatcha got to lose?

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post #21 of 33 Old Jul 12th, 2006, 2:11 pm Thread Starter
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If you talk to the dealer reeeeel nice and ask for him/her to help, ya might get them to contact BMW on your bee-haf... besides, whatcha got to lose?

That's kindof what I was thinking. I didn't know if they would negotiate on a clutch, if a faulty slave cylinder or main seal is the culprit. Anyone had any luck with this?
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post #22 of 33 Old Jul 12th, 2006, 8:17 pm
 
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I am the Guy he bought it from

I told Jamie to come to this site as a reference because anything and everything you ever wanted to know is here about this bike. I can assure you guys that this bike has NOT been ridden hard. I never noticed any slipping at all while I owned it. The bike went out of warranty last november so I don't know if my dealer ( Hebert Cycles ) Baton Rouge will be any help but I offered to talk to them for him. The only 2 things I ever had replaced while I owned it was the radio head and real shaft seal, both handled under warranty. Hope you guys can help, I feel awful about this. Sold this bike to buy a GS.
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post #23 of 33 Old Jul 12th, 2006, 9:19 pm
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I don't think you'll have any luck unless it still under the warranty which is 36,000 miles or 3 years which ever comes first. I don't know whether extended warranties will cover the clutch or not.

Good luck.

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post #24 of 33 Old Jul 12th, 2006, 9:58 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_Hayes
I told Jamie to come to this site as a reference because anything and everything you ever wanted to know is here about this bike. I can assure you guys that this bike has NOT been ridden hard. I never noticed any slipping at all while I owned it. The bike went out of warranty last november so I don't know if my dealer ( Hebert Cycles ) Baton Rouge will be any help but I offered to talk to them for him. The only 2 things I ever had replaced while I owned it was the radio head and real shaft seal, both handled under warranty. Hope you guys can help, I feel awful about this. Sold this bike to buy a GS.

Hopefully the dealership will help with this. If anyone else has any suggestions, please let me know.
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post #25 of 33 Old Jul 13th, 2006, 8:26 am
 
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Thursday 7/13/06

Hey Jamie, I am going to Baton Rouge Today to talk about the GS. I will talk with James in person and see what I can hammer out with him for you. Sorry again.
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post #26 of 33 Old Jul 13th, 2006, 11:26 am Thread Starter
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Thanks. I appreciate anything you (and James) can do.
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post #27 of 33 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 2:48 pm Thread Starter
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I'm getting the clutch replaced this week. They are replacing the slave cylinder, main seal , and transmission seal while they are in there. Is there anything that I should have done while they've got it apart? Is there anything that I should look for when I pick it up (common problems, misplaced parts, things commonly re-assembled wrong)? Thanks for the help.
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post #28 of 33 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 6:47 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiekiel
I'm getting the clutch replaced this week. They are replacing the slave cylinder, main seal , and transmission seal while they are in there. Is there anything that I should have done while they've got it apart? Is there anything that I should look for when I pick it up (common problems, misplaced parts, things commonly re-assembled wrong)? Thanks for the help.
Make sure they replace BOTH transmission main shaft seals, front and rear. I would also replace the transmission output seal while it is out.

Also be sure they replace the engine output shaft O-ring, as that hardens and leaks more often than the main seal does.

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post #29 of 33 Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 9:23 am Thread Starter
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So there is no advantage to having fluids changed while it is down, or will they do that anyway?
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post #30 of 33 Old Jul 24th, 2006, 1:56 pm Thread Starter
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Scott called. They got the clutch parts in Friday and will be doing the work during the first part of this week.
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post #31 of 33 Old Aug 16th, 2006, 9:17 am Thread Starter
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Finally got the bike back. It works great.

Jamie Kiel
2002 K1200LT Silver
2005 Harley Davidson Springer Classic
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post #32 of 33 Old Aug 16th, 2006, 11:38 pm
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Originally Posted by dshealey
Make sure they replace BOTH transmission main shaft seals, front and rear. I would also replace the transmission output seal while it is out.

Also be sure they replace the engine output shaft O-ring, as that hardens and leaks more often than the main seal does.
When I spoke to the dealer in Eugene about my clutch, I made sure they would replace the engine rear main seal and the transmission input seal. When I asked if there was anything else they would recommend, the mechanic recommended the tranny rear seal, and removing/cleaning the starter. He seemed to think it was trivial after the tranny is removed, so I'm gonna let them do it.

There are two tranny seals, plus the output? And an engine o-ring? I think I need to look at the manual pages and the exploded views before they order all the parts.

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'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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post #33 of 33 Old Aug 17th, 2006, 8:46 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
When I spoke to the dealer in Eugene about my clutch, I made sure they would replace the engine rear main seal and the transmission input seal. When I asked if there was anything else they would recommend, the mechanic recommended the tranny rear seal, and removing/cleaning the starter. He seemed to think it was trivial after the tranny is removed, so I'm gonna let them do it.

There are two tranny seals, plus the output? And an engine o-ring? I think I need to look at the manual pages and the exploded views before they order all the parts.
Yes, the tranny input shaft has two seals, the front one behind the clutch, and the rear one in front of the slave cylinder. Either failing gets tranny oil on the clutch.

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