Hydraulic Centre Stand not working - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 27 Old Jul 19th, 2014, 11:26 pm Thread Starter
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Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

My recently acquired 2006 K1200LT. The center stand worked fine last Saturday when I used it last (went for a little 450 mile ride to Orillia and back). I usually use the side stand (no it don't smoke if you just wait a few seconds after turning the motor off to set her down). I wanted to put her on the center stand today to check over a few things. Press the button and all it does is flash the light on the dash quickly, and a tiny little rectangle with a zig-zag mark in the LCD display comes on. The book says something like that either the unit is defective or some module is defective, or the system voltage is under 10V (I doubt that it is this one since it even does it with the bike running, and it starts and runs just fine).

The only real change recently was the center tail light bulb replacement so the caution light on the dash would go out (no warning lights on at all now). (the stand was working fine with that light on). The motor doesn't even run, the brakes are not on, trans is in neutral, the side stand is up, etc. etc. etc. double triple and quadruple checked all that.

Anybody got any suggestions? Kinda hard to do some of the minor maintenance things when I can't get it on the center stand.

The ball joints in the shift linkage were all dry and the rubber boots to keep the dirt out are either falling apart or missing. Got them cleaned and lubed, but didn't have anything around to make new washers out of so I'll have to do this all over again soon. The shifter seems to work really smooth now.

I also noticed that the cruise control keeps kicking out recently. Maybe they are related, maybe a bad brake switch or something like that. Hmm... I will have to check on that tomorrow.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
Terry

Current Bike:
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post #2 of 27 Old Jul 20th, 2014, 9:03 am
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Terry,

No help on the EHCS at this time, sorry.

I do have this for you, however: Welcome to the forums, we are glad that you found us.

Please take a moment to update your profile. Maybe there is a member located nearby who can provide some hands-on and eyes-on assistance.

Antony (Tripod)
Dallas' Northern Suburbs
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post #3 of 27 Old Jul 20th, 2014, 9:13 am
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Last year I attended the CCR 2013 in Bend Oregon and was riding a 2009
LT. In Portland my center stand stopped working. Went to a tech session at
the rally and John Zeiler took about 2 minutes to diagnose. The motor that
drives the hydraulic pump had corrosion on the electical contacts. To my
amazement John had a spare one with him in his bag of tricks and 30
minutes later I was good to go with a swap out.


John pointed out that there is an oring sealing on the yellowish motor
housing but this does not seem to stop moisture getting inside the motor and
corroding the contacts. John usually takes the units opens them up - cleans
the contacts and you are good to go.

I am sure John may chime in here to provide additional information as well
as there is also a replacement motor that can be obtained at a fairly low
cost.

Dan Finazzo
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post #4 of 27 Old Jul 20th, 2014, 10:12 am
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

If you have a cruise kicking out you may have a brake light switch that is not adjusted correctly. If that is the case the stand will not work if it thinks a brake is held (light on). I would eliminate that first by pressing outward on the brake lever and try the stand again. If it dos not work ave some one confirm that the brake lights are not on. If they are not on and it still does not work then I would suspect the motor on the stand.

Here is a link for removal of the unit. The photo shows the corroded brush screw. When you get ready to remove the cover put the gear shaft lightly in a vice (or vise grips) this will keep the armature in place as you pull the cover with the magnets off.
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John
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post #5 of 27 Old Jul 20th, 2014, 8:04 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Update:

I have not had a chance to confirm if the motor for the center stand is receiving power or not yet.

However, today the cruise was working fine for over an hour (much smoother road than the other day when it wouldn't stay on). Then when I was on my way back home, the cruise wouldn't work again, but the power windshield also wouldn't work. Then I went over a bump at a bridge and then it worked again the rest of the way home. So I think I have a bad connector or bad wire in the wiring harness to the left switch cluster. Considering electronics is my line of work, I can deal with this one. But I will let you know once I pin it down for sure. Unless of course someone here has some experience to tell me where that cable run typically breaks/wears.

Again, thanks for all the advice, and I will post back once I have the problem pinned down for sure.

Current Bike:
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post #6 of 27 Old Jul 21st, 2014, 8:41 pm
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

F6 is a common fuse for the cruise and the windshield, but I would look at ground connections as well. Brown wires and a common tie point behind the battery.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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post #7 of 27 Old Jul 21st, 2014, 9:58 pm
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
If you have a cruise kicking out you may have a brake light switch that is not adjusted correctly. If that is the case the stand will not work if it thinks a brake is held (light on). I would eliminate that first by pressing outward on the brake lever and try the stand again. If it dos not work ave some one confirm that the brake lights are not on. If they are not on and it still does not work then I would suspect the motor on the stand.

Here is a link for removal of the unit. The photo shows the corroded brush screw. When you get ready to remove the cover put the gear shaft lightly in a vice (or vise grips) this will keep the armature in place as you pull the cover with the magnets off.
Thanks for that link. I had no idea that it takes just a few bolts and a few minutes to remove the unit, and apparently no bodywork needs to come off.

Current Bikes

2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2013 Suzuki Burgman 650, Ya it's a scooter but it will do over 100 MPH
2005 BMW K1200LT
2004 BMW R1150RT
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post #8 of 27 Old Jul 22nd, 2014, 7:33 am
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Need to chime in here guys, is there a test I can do to confirm voltage to unit prior to removal to ensure all switches are operational?
I have had trouble with my EHCS on and off since Ive had it. (08 with 13,000 miles)

Thanks, Donn
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post #9 of 27 Old Jul 23rd, 2014, 1:42 am
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgfolkmann View Post
Need to chime in here guys, is there a test I can do to confirm voltage to unit prior to removal to ensure all switches are operational?
I have had trouble with my EHCS on and off since Ive had it. (08 with 13,000 miles)

Thanks, Donn
If you can quantify what the "trouble" is... eg not lifting all the way, not lifting at all.. etc etc it might make it easier to advise.

AFAIK, as long as your battery is good you could connect directly to the + - feeds on the connector and the hydraulic should contract the rod... John might have specific voltage/current numbers (?)... I tested mine by hooking to a car battery directly after the rebuild (new motor & oil change) to make sure it functioned OK before re-installing.
You could do that while the bike is already up on the centrestand... just pop the connector off as shown at the start of the video-link in John's post.
But it really only takes about 15-20 minutes or so to remove the whole unit.
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post #10 of 27 Old Jul 23rd, 2014, 7:25 am
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Thanks for the reply, Chris.
The centerstand does not do anything at all.
Have done all the required steps; Neutral, no brakes applied, sidestand up, ect.
Am showing an icon on dash when switch activated, so I just wanted to narrow down what may be the issue.
Sure miss having that Luxury operable. Thanks, Donn
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post #11 of 27 Old Jul 23rd, 2014, 7:49 am
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Is there any noise at all when you press the EHCS button?
Which icon, is it the " ! " one flashing?
Check your brake lights to make sure they are functioning correctly.. if the tail centre brake light is out (or misfunctioning) that stops the EHCS working and you just get the " ! " exclamation mark symbol flashing...

If you are getting some kind of noise from the EHCS motor but no movement it might be the motor needs replacing... easy fix and not too expensive.

Chris
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post #12 of 27 Old Jul 23rd, 2014, 8:30 am
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

When EHCS button pushed, I'm getting some noise, but very temporary, then nothing after that.
It is the "!" indicator that is showing up.
Should this indicator normally illuminate if there is a bulb malfunction?
I now have some items to check out.
My LT is a '08 with 13K, I'm second owner.
Im wondering if I have possible corrosion in the Lift Motor.
Sure appreciate the pointers!
Love MY LT !!
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post #13 of 27 Old Jul 23rd, 2014, 8:59 pm
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgfolkmann View Post
When EHCS button pushed, I'm getting some noise, but very temporary, then nothing after that.
It is the "!" indicator that is showing up.
Getting the noise when you push the EHCS button seems to indicate power is getting to the motor but the motor is probably stuffed, either through corrosion or carbon buildup inside.
If that's the case replacing the motor is pretty easy & cheap without diving into anything else more costly.... you'll be up for $50-$60 and an hour or 2 of your time.
Discussed & summarised in a lot of threads before, here's a recent one that also lists several suppliers.... and an ebay link to the motors. I would buy new, not used, they don't cost too much after all and you don't watch to have to change it out again too soon.
The motor is same as a Honda starter motor (here's a thread where we collectively found the replacement motor.)

Getting the bike onto the centre stand to remove the EHCS unit is simple, especially if you have someone to help steady the bike..
Put down a couple of pieces of 2" x 6" (50mm) timber spaced to the wheel distance apart, ride the front & rear wheels onto them, get someone to help hold the right side of bike steady while you get off, then hold the centrestand on the ground with one foot while you roll the bike back with the help of the other person onto the stand.
Now you can remove the EHCS unit to change the motor, per the video

If you think it's not the motor, then maybe video whats happening and post it on youtube for us to see.
cheers



EDIT:: CHEAP MOTORS... $27!!! http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Starter-...item43c8cf3ea8

Chris
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post #14 of 27 Old Jul 24th, 2014, 7:15 am
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Hey, Thanks Chris.
Thats a nice trick with the 2x6, makes perfect sense.
Will put her up on that, then first try some external power to see if the motor is indeed trashed.
Have a Good One! Donn
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post #15 of 27 Old Jul 24th, 2014, 7:45 am
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

If the "!" is showing then it is detecting one of the interlocks. You may have a stuck brake switch (confirm you can control the light from lever or pedal) or a dirty side stand switch. Also must be in neutral (confirm both green N and 0 on indicator).

John
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post #16 of 27 Old Jul 24th, 2014, 9:29 am
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

I just cant believe that my motor is faulty, I have low miles, but the age of the LT, possibly was stored where there might have been moisture causing some corrosion in there.
Will keep all these tips in mind and let u know what the outcome is. Thanks!

Donn
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post #17 of 27 Old Jul 24th, 2014, 5:41 pm
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Easy to check. Pull it off or disconnect it and run 12 v direct to the motor connector. That will tell you pretty quick.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #18 of 27 Old Aug 4th, 2014, 10:33 am Thread Starter
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Well, it turns out I have a gremlin that is being much more of a pain to track down that I first thought. It may even include the centre stand issue too. There is no power reaching the connector at the centre stand.

As I had indicated, the cruise control kept kicking out. I also had noticed that the headlight was flickering at 3300RPM and up (to the point it was basically off). Can't see this very well in the daylight! I decided to tear the tupperware off to see if I could track down the bad connection. I was looking for a problem in the power to the headlight, and to the wiring run up to the left handlebar switch, I couldn't find anything wrong in either run. I had someone following me yesterday that said that my tail lights are also cutting out. I have done a bit more troubleshooting and found that the power is actually cutting right out at the fuses on certain circuits, but not on others.

The red LED on the handlebar for the cruise actually cut out, the High beam, and the indicator for it on the dash cut out, the tail lights cut out. Maybe more.

I can't seem to find information as to which fuse are for what in the 2006 models with the 2 larger fuse boxes (only the older ones with the 3 smaller fuse boxes). At this point I have to assume there is a faulty relay, probably in the electronics box under the gas tank, that switches power from the key to these accessories. Again though I can't find information as to which relay is for what.

Anybody got some better electrical diagrams for the 2006 LT ? Or at least something that can tell me which relays do what and maybe which fuses do what.

Oh, I also modified the OEM flasher to flash my LED turn signals at the proper rate. I can provide the details for this if anyone wants. It is different than any of the directions I found online for the older flashers.

Thanks again,
Terry



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsteeper View Post
Update:

I have not had a chance to confirm if the motor for the center stand is receiving power or not yet.

However, today the cruise was working fine for over an hour (much smoother road than the other day when it wouldn't stay on). Then when I was on my way back home, the cruise wouldn't work again, but the power windshield also wouldn't work. Then I went over a bump at a bridge and then it worked again the rest of the way home. So I think I have a bad connector or bad wire in the wiring harness to the left switch cluster. Considering electronics is my line of work, I can deal with this one. But I will let you know once I pin it down for sure. Unless of course someone here has some experience to tell me where that cable run typically breaks/wears.

Again, thanks for all the advice, and I will post back once I have the problem pinned down for sure.

Current Bike:
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post #19 of 27 Old Aug 4th, 2014, 8:42 pm
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Terry,

If you have flickering lights above 3300 RPM there can be only one cause. A small 5 mm allen on the back of the starter. Since the starter is dual ended (in an oil bath on each end) it has o-rings so the only way to get a good ground is this bolt. Since the starter is the ground path for the load shed relay (cuts off the lights when starting) a loose bolt will allow the starter to work but due to vibration will cause the load shed to get flaky.

A little hard to get to but a ball allen will usually do the trick.
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #20 of 27 Old Aug 5th, 2014, 7:36 am Thread Starter
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Thank You, I had done a fair bit of digging online for electrical diagrams and had been able to determine that the problem was in the load shed relay area. I was going to replace the relay, but what you are saying makes more sense. One place online even suggested that the started would need to be taken out and the brushes cleaned up so it would make better contact for grounding the load shed relay after the starting. The problem was actually getting worse and happening occasionally below 3000 RPM. Thus the bolt working loose makes more sense.

I'll let you know once I get a chance to fix it.

Regards,
Terry


Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Terry,

If you have flickering lights above 3300 RPM there can be only one cause. A small 5 mm allen on the back of the starter. Since the starter is dual ended (in an oil bath on each end) it has o-rings so the only way to get a good ground is this bolt. Since the starter is the ground path for the load shed relay (cuts off the lights when starting) a loose bolt will allow the starter to work but due to vibration will cause the load shed to get flaky.

A little hard to get to but a ball allen will usually do the trick.

Current Bike:
2006 BMW K1200LT purchased June 2014, and loving this thing so far!
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post #21 of 27 Old Aug 5th, 2014, 11:31 am Thread Starter
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Well, you nailed it. I haven't gone out for a ride to confirm yet (thunderstorms rolling through here while I was working on it).

The bolt was definitely loose and yes it is a real PITA to get to. It is so close to the frame that I couldn't get a ball end hex key in there. I ended up making a very short hex key with a bend on the handle to get in there. Took a lot of finger twiddling in there, but I did get it tightened up.



In the picture, the head of the cap screw looks like someone has already tried to tighten this before and couldn't get the end of the hex key in the hole far enough. But making a very short hex key, I was able to get it tightened fairly well (I hope).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Terry,

If you have flickering lights above 3300 RPM there can be only one cause. A small 5 mm allen on the back of the starter. Since the starter is dual ended (in an oil bath on each end) it has o-rings so the only way to get a good ground is this bolt. Since the starter is the ground path for the load shed relay (cuts off the lights when starting) a loose bolt will allow the starter to work but due to vibration will cause the load shed to get flaky.

A little hard to get to but a ball allen will usually do the trick.

Current Bike:
2006 BMW K1200LT purchased June 2014, and loving this thing so far!
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post #22 of 27 Old Aug 5th, 2014, 9:16 pm
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Yeah! Glad that was it. That is a great picture you took and it was definitely loose.

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #23 of 27 Old Aug 5th, 2014, 10:45 pm
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Ah the old loose screw in front of the battery cover and flaky electronics - I
know this issue well . . .

Thanks to Mr. Zeiler this issue was solved one late fall evening at Ironhorse
Cabins in the Smoky Mountains along with a trip into his electrical diagrams!!

Dan Finazzo
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post #24 of 27 Old Aug 5th, 2014, 10:48 pm
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Yes it was Dan's old LT that led to this diagnosis in the first place.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #25 of 27 Old Aug 7th, 2014, 8:13 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

After riding a few hundred miles after this repair, I can say that tightening that loose starter bolt has cleared up all the electrical gremlins.

Heck the Hydraulic Centre Stand is working again and yet I did nothing to it, other than confirmed that there was no power getting to it before.

Anyway, I do have to say a BIG Thank You for that tip. I am sure at some point somebody had a good flat spot on their head tracking that one down.

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post #26 of 27 Old Aug 7th, 2014, 8:26 pm
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsteeper View Post
Anyway, I do have to say a BIG Thank You for that tip. I am sure at some point somebody had a good flat spot on their head tracking that one down.
Well until I solved that issue I did have a full head of hair...
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John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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jzeiler is offline  
post #27 of 27 Old Sep 16th, 2014, 7:01 pm Thread Starter
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Join Date: Jun 2014
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Re: Hydraulic Centre Stand not working

Not to resurrect an old thread, but... Funny isn't it, tightening that loose bolt on the starter motor dropped me almost 4MPG!

Now that all the lights and some of the electronics don't flicker out at >3000 RPM, I can actually DRIVE her instead of babying her. I was getting around 50 to 52 MPG, now I drive her harder often enough to drop that average down to 48MPG pretty steady now. But that said I am enjoying the ride more too, so a trade off of a few MPG for the sheer enjoyment is worth it. I am sure I could get those MPG back if I really tried to, but that wouldn't be as much fun either.

While I have been too busy to ride as much as I may like to, I am enjoying the ride more on this bike than I did on my Suzuki VS800.

Current Bike:
2006 BMW K1200LT purchased June 2014, and loving this thing so far!
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