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post #1 of 23 Old Jul 6th, 2014, 7:49 pm Thread Starter
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Buyers advice???

This is a little different request for comments on buying a used bike!
I'm trying to find a good used K1200Lt and thought what better a place than the classifieds here to find one.

Find one I did and I contacted the seller and discussed the bike and terms.
We agreed to the price and he requested a 20% deposit that I agreed to.
This is where the problem arises I asked for an emailed copy of a bill of sale stating the terms we agreed to and a scanned copy of the title to prove the title is clear and show proper owners name and address.

The seller informs me he is uncomfortable with providing me this information or a bill of sale.
He states he has bought and sold many vehicles and never before has someone asked for these as part of the transaction!
My concern is if I send a large deposit and have no paperwork I don't know if he owns the bike or not.
I'm only trying to protect myself from being scammed.
So my question is am I being paranoid or unreasonable to ask for these things.

Thanks
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post #2 of 23 Old Jul 6th, 2014, 7:55 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

Actually $500 is a small deposit and the provision of the requested paperwork in advance of the purchase is the problem. This has become too much of an issue to deal with.

Bob Chapman
Virginia
2000 K12LT
1978 CB750A (Automatic Cafe Racer Ratbike)
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post #3 of 23 Old Jul 6th, 2014, 8:09 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Buyers advice???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob204bc View Post
Actually $500 is a small deposit and the provision of the requested paperwork in advance of the purchase is the problem. This has become too much of an issue to deal with.
Sorry Bob I didn't mean to upset you I'm just trying to figure out if I'm way out of line here!

John
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post #4 of 23 Old Jul 6th, 2014, 8:47 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnydee View Post
This is a little different request for comments on buying a used bike!
I'm trying to find a good used K1200Lt and thought what better a place than the classifieds here to find one.

Find one I did and I contacted the seller and discussed the bike and terms.
We agreed to the price and he requested a 20% deposit that I agreed to.
This is where the problem arises I asked for an emailed copy of a bill of sale stating the terms we agreed to and a scanned copy of the title to prove the title is clear and show proper owners name and address.

The seller informs me he is uncomfortable with providing me this information or a bill of sale.
He states he has bought and sold many vehicles and never before has someone asked for these as part of the transaction!
My concern is if I send a large deposit and have no paperwork I don't know if he owns the bike or not.
I'm only trying to protect myself from being scammed.
So my question is am I being paranoid or unreasonable to ask for these things.

Thanks
You absolutely should get an agreement/bill of sale with the price and the deposit shown as received with balance due. Also list any items or specifics related to the sale that go with the bike. If he has the title he should be more than willing to send you a photo copy of that. I would tell the guy to pack sand and find another bike, there are plenty out there.
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post #5 of 23 Old Jul 6th, 2014, 9:31 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnydee View Post
This is a little different request for comments on buying a used bike!
I'm trying to find a good used K1200Lt and thought what better a place than the classifieds here to find one.

Find one I did and I contacted the seller and discussed the bike and terms.
We agreed to the price and he requested a 20% deposit that I agreed to.
This is where the problem arises I asked for an emailed copy of a bill of sale stating the terms we agreed to and a scanned copy of the title to prove the title is clear and show proper owners name and address.

The seller informs me he is uncomfortable with providing me this information or a bill of sale.
He states he has bought and sold many vehicles and never before has someone asked for these as part of the transaction!
My concern is if I send a large deposit and have no paperwork I don't know if he owns the bike or not.
I'm only trying to protect myself from being scammed.
So my question is am I being paranoid or unreasonable to ask for these things.

Thanks
Are you buying a bike in Ontario, ask for the Vin, $20 will get you the sellers package with all the owners info (all owners) - it has to be supplied for any vehicle sale anyways

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
1960 AJS 500 single
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post #6 of 23 Old Jul 6th, 2014, 11:46 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnydee View Post
Sorry Bob I didn't mean to upset you I'm just trying to figure out if I'm way out of line here!

John
Why don't you bring certified funds for the sale and skip the deposit? If the documentation or anything else is out of place you can just cancel the sale.


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post #7 of 23 Old Jul 7th, 2014, 1:18 am
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Re: Buyers advice???

I would think that if you are going to send $500 to the owner, he should at least give you a written sales agreement, which states what the sale price is, the deposit amount, and a copy of the registration showing him as the legal owner. It sounds like a lot to ask from a sellers point of view, but if you are sending him $500 (in a personal check form so it also acts as a receipt), its nice to have an agreement in writing. I mean he holds all the marbles, the bike, and the deposit. What would you have without some type of sales agreement? Now, a Bill of sale I think would be a different story, as that is what would be presented at time of sale, and a copy of the title may be different than just a copy of the registration, which should suffice to show he is the owner of the motorcycle. Anyway, just my $0.02

RICH CANNON
2000 K1200LT "a great ride"
2002 GL1800 powerful, but boring..(gone)
1979 XS1100 (gone)
1986 VT500 Ascot (gone)
1972 Honda 500-4 (gone)
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Last edited by casualemt; Jul 7th, 2014 at 1:20 am. Reason: clairify
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post #8 of 23 Old Jul 7th, 2014, 10:10 am
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Re: Buyers advice???

I think you are not at all out of line here. You are looking for (1) proof that he actually owns the bike he is trying to sell you and (2) proof that you (a) have an agreement to buy for a specific amount and (b) that you have given him some money in furtherance of that agreement.

I suggest that you also should "have reservations" about sending him money with no proof of a transaction. I also suggest https://www.escrow.com/

Good luck.


Edit: I assume that you are more than a single day (there and back) away from the seller. If you are within a reasonable (to you) distance, then I agree with Gruivis - just take your money with you when you go and forget the deposit altogether.

Chris W

Current
'14 K1600 GTL

Previous
'09 HD Fat Bob
'07 K1200 LT (gf misses it)
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post #9 of 23 Old Jul 7th, 2014, 9:16 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob204bc View Post
Actually $500 is a small deposit and the provision of the requested paperwork in advance of the purchase is the problem. This has become too much of an issue to deal with.
Gee whiz Bob, you have a $2400 bike with 116k miles, and wont even provide proof that you own it or a sales agreement with agreed upon price ??!! He's willing to come from Canada, too. Just scan a copy and email it to him if you want to sell.
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post #10 of 23 Old Jul 7th, 2014, 11:20 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

Just last Saturday I sold my 07 K1200LT for $9500 and I told the buyer bring cash, inspect the bike and if you like it, you give me the $$$ and I'll give you the keys and the title...
Which we did..
BUT before I made the buyer come all the way to my feet I gave him the VIN #, Insurance info, my home address and my business address.... So he can see I am a reputable business owner and not a guy who'll grab his money and disappear...

Buyer was a very nice gentleman and arrived with his wife and 2 yr old son. Loved the bike at first sight and we completed the transaction...

Now that's a good story....

Here's how a bad one goes:

After the sale of my K1200LT I began to cruise the web for a $3500-$4000 range R1150RT-P (I love those old police bikes).
Anyways I found one close to Seattle... an 04 with 50k mile for $3900.
Remind you that I live in Monterey, CA area. 800 miles away.
Checked the photos on eBay, contacted the seller. Offered $3650 and got a deal.
Paid $250 deposit via PayPal!
I told him I will be driving there to inspect the bike and tow it back behind my van. He said he really took good care of the bike and bike needed nothing, bla bla...

I drove 800 miles up North in 18 hrs. Stopped at a UHaul and got the trailer attached and got the guy's home.
When he came out and opened the garage door to reveal the bike my mouth dropped!
It was a piece of crap!
Holes everywhere on the body after removal of the lights, some lights being ripped of and the rusted base portions left on the body, some of the bolts hold the frame together is missing.
Engine started with a big shrieking noise and sounded horrible afterwards and died few times.
Both tires were horribly cupped and when I mentioned they were "cupped" he asked me what that means?

I guess with my understanding of "great shape" and his were a lot different!
Then I asked him why the pictures looked nothing like this. He mumbled something like, all he had was this old pictures when he got the bike last year!
I told him NO I am sorry... He reversed my $250 deposit via PyPal and I drove 800 miles back pissed off!
Wasted around $500 gas because I was driving my only vehicle which is a B class RV to tow the bike.

On the way back I checked the classifieds on my iPad and I came across another R1150RT-P about 140 miles from my home. Visited that guy and the bike was in perfect shape. Everything in place, shiny clean body, perfect sounding engine, tires were about 90%... and he was asking $4300... I offered $4000 and that was the end of it...
Since few days I am riding this one now...

So, the moral of the story is that;

It is very hard to trust what is the condition and shape of a product like a used motorcycle you found over the internet for a buyer.
Seller can be assured that the buyer will be bringing $$$ in good condition with him.
But putting the buyer at ease must be the responsibility of the seller.
A clear title or a current registration close up photos, service records, VIN # everything must be provided before a buyer is called to the feet of the seller.

After all if buyer tells the seller "bring the bike to my location and if I like it I'll buy" I bet seller would like to see some sort of guarantee that the buyer have enough funds for the transaction!

Capt.Jim
2018 R1200 GSA
--------------------------
'18 R1200RT
'18 K1600GTL
'16 R1200GSA
'14 R1200RT
'12 K1600GTL
'06 R1200GS
'03 R1150RT-P
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post #11 of 23 Old Jul 9th, 2014, 12:50 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Buyers advice???

I'm sure the seller is a reputable member of this board and also keeps his bike in good condition.
My problem is trying to find the time to get down to inspect the bike and ride it home!
I know it is a high miler but the price reflected that and it was to be a second bike for me to try and convince my wife to ride with me.
I Didn't think I was being unreasonable with trying to get a written agreement and a copy of title to prove ownership.
I was hoping to try this bike but alas it seems to not be in the cards.
I guess the search continues.

Thanks john
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post #12 of 23 Old Jul 9th, 2014, 12:59 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnydee View Post
I'm sure the seller is a reputable member of this board and also keeps his bike in good condition.
My problem is trying to find the time to get down to inspect the bike and ride it home!
I know it is a high miler but the price reflected that and it was to be a second bike for me to try and convince my wife to ride with me.
I Didn't think I was being unreasonable with trying to get a written agreement and a copy of title to prove ownership.
I was hoping to try this bike but alas it seems to not be in the cards.
I guess the search continues.

Thanks john
Hi John - is the bike in Ontario

Gary
2018 R1200RT
Past rides
2012 K1600GTL
2000 K1200LT
1992 K1100LT
2000 V Star 650/Velorex sidecar
1985 K100RT
1965 R60/2
1960 AJS 500 single
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post #13 of 23 Old Jul 9th, 2014, 1:23 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

I have bought more used BMW bikes and sold more BMW bikes than I care to admit. If selling I always provide a scan of the title and put together a bill of sale before the transaction is completed. I buying I demand this as well and have never had anyone refuse.

How are your going to determine that the bike isn't salvaged let alone owned by the guy selling?

Something is wrong with this bike or the guy is just ultra paranoid. Either way, I would skip this one and keep looking.

Oh and 20% is not a small deposit.

2018 R1200RT Mars Red
2017 R1200GS Rallye
2014 Husky FE501
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post #14 of 23 Old Jul 9th, 2014, 2:01 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

Bail !!!

In the last 2 years...
'08 R1200GS---Loved it!!!
'01 H-D Ultra Classic---Hated it!!! (aka. the infernal noise making machine)
'02 K1200LT(black)---Even my GF is jealous of this one.
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post #15 of 23 Old Jul 9th, 2014, 8:12 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

A cheeky way to get an insight to the bike (and owner) if the owner is on the site is click on their name and select "Find all posts by xxxx" then sit back and do a llittle reading.
That way you'll get to know a little about who you might be dealing with and whether they've reported any issues with the bike that concerns you.
I'm not aware of any limitations on this search.... hope its helpful in future searching

Oh, and I plan to keep my bikes forever so I'm not concerned about anyone searching my history.....

Chris
Sydney, NSW
2005 Dark Graphite Metallic K1200LT
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post #16 of 23 Old Jul 11th, 2014, 10:12 am Thread Starter
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Re: Buyers advice???

Quote:
Originally Posted by gary45 View Post
Hi John - is the bike in Ontario
No it's not !

Thanks everyone I guess I'm not crazy after all.
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post #17 of 23 Old Jul 11th, 2014, 11:43 am
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Re: Buyers advice???

Capt Jim, I think you were blinded by the prospect of almost stealing a great shape '04 RT-P for $3600. That's not to say the guy wasn't a douche to use such old and not representative photos. If it were truly in 'great shape', $5000 -$6000 is more in line, IMO, and I have bought and sold an '04 RT-P not too long ago.

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1978 Honda CB400T II

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'04 R1150 RT-P
'04 R1200CLC
'06 Triumph Scrambler
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post #18 of 23 Old Jul 11th, 2014, 11:46 am
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Re: Buyers advice???

As to the original question here, I don't think either the buyer or the seller is being unreasonable. They just can't agree on the details. I can see both points of view, no need to feel that one or the other is being dishonest or unreasonably demanding.

I would trust a seller if I had spoken to him via phone and gotten a feel for him, searched his participation here, and if he agreed to send me a receipt for the deposit with the terms of the sale spelled out, and also stating the bikes title is clear and not a salvage one, and he writes the VIN on the receipt. And if you send the deposit via PayPal, there's a record of it being sent and received. I've done transactions this way. I've also been satisfied that the seller is who he says, and the bike is as stated, and I then wired full payment and he then Fed Ex'd overnighted the title to me. Somebody has to be the one to trust the other first, unless you are doing a local, face-to-face deal.

2010 Honda NT700V
1978 Honda CB400T II

Formerly
2011 R1200 RT
'04 R1150 RT-P
'04 R1200CLC
'06 Triumph Scrambler
'02 K1200LT
'01 R1200C Montana
'00 H-D Dyna Defender

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Last edited by George_S; Jul 11th, 2014 at 11:55 am.
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post #19 of 23 Old Jul 11th, 2014, 12:19 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

Seems like the BOS is appropriate, and one could certainly redact anything of concern from the copied title. Don't see the problem at all.
When I'm ready to sell mine, I will supply a UOA and do a compression test for the new owner. And were the buyer not too far, I'd drive it out just to prove it's reliability.
Yes, these are reasons that I would never make a good used car salesman.
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post #20 of 23 Old Jul 11th, 2014, 12:25 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnydee View Post
I'm sure the seller is a reputable member of this board...
To me, this is a huge plus in any transaction. An owner who has been at all active on a model-specific forum is a pretty safe bet when buying a bike at a distance. I've done that with everyone of my last five or six bike purchases and have had great experiences -- and now have a few new friends...

Now, if it's Craigslist...

Kevin Sawatsky, Kingston, TX
IBA #487 (IBR 2013, 48 Plus!, B2B Insanity, 10 Tenths, SS5000, 50CC, BBG, SS1000...)
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post #21 of 23 Old Jul 11th, 2014, 1:57 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

Has anyone had a buyer request a copy of your (seller) driver's license? I had a deal fall apart because a buyer (at the last minute) wanted a copy of my license. I refused to provide it. He walked with his cash, I left with my vehicle. Multiple emails, phone conversations, and time wasted.

Rob
Navarre, FL
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post #22 of 23 Old Jul 11th, 2014, 2:20 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

I have asked to see a driver's license prior to a test ride, and I use my phone camera to snap a photo of the license plate of the vehicle they arrived in/on.
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post #23 of 23 Old Jul 11th, 2014, 4:26 pm
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Re: Buyers advice???

Sure you can test ride it, as long as I have the cash in hand.

In the last 2 years...
'08 R1200GS---Loved it!!!
'01 H-D Ultra Classic---Hated it!!! (aka. the infernal noise making machine)
'02 K1200LT(black)---Even my GF is jealous of this one.
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