IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 20 Old Jun 28th, 2014, 11:42 pm Thread Starter
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IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

So, I got all the IABS parts removed, ran new lines as documented, pulled the controller card out of the ABS modulator placed it inside a plastic zip lock bag and went for a very short ride to test the brakes SANS servo. Everything was going fine then the bike just cut out and died. It will not restart. I also noticed that the brake lights are on without applying either brake. Could the brake light switches be causing a no start? I doubt it, but I will try to set the rear brake rod actuator adjustment. I was thinking of pulling the tank and checking to see if the fuel hose popped off, but I seriously doubt it. I replaced submersible hose with filter last year.

Please don't bother posting about why I removed the servo assist, it failed for the second time and I just can't afford to pay $2300 for a new unit.

Thanks for any help you can offer.
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post #2 of 20 Old Jun 29th, 2014, 11:55 am
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

Grant,

Nothing on the brakes should prevent starting. Hopefully you insulated the circuit card well after you pulled it. It may have shorted and popped a fuse.

If you did not use the BMW replacement hoses that could be your issue. Dave (saddleman) had issues using Gates submersible hoses on bikes he maintains so he won't use it any more. Worth a check.

John
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2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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post #3 of 20 Old Jun 29th, 2014, 8:01 pm Thread Starter
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

John Z, thank you for your reply. This bike is killing me...I pulled all of the fuses under the seat area, all look good and OHM good to. So now I'm going to pull the tank again and take a peak inside at the fuel line.

Supposing that the fuel line is good. What should I try next? I am not good at electrical diagnostics, but am willing to try anything. I have a good meter.
I know I have a full 12 volts at battery.

What could be causing the brake lights to stay on? Did I mess up the micro switches when pulling the footplate off to attach a new line to the rear master cylinder, or the right handle bar switch to install a new front line? (NO lines are pinch and grounding from what I can see)

Thanks to this forum for all support issues that get resolved from teamwork!

Grant
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post #4 of 20 Old Jun 29th, 2014, 9:09 pm
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

Grant, John Z told me to take the gas cap off, look inside the tank and hit the starter button. If you see gas moving around, it might indicate either a hose off or a split in the hose (this was my problem). If either, you can drain the gas out of the tank (siphon or Harbor Freight pump) and then you can remove the fuel filter/hoses from the right bottom (take off the tip-over bar). This saves taking the stingray/tank, etc off. I used a mirror on the end of a telescoping wand to confirm my split hose before removing everything which allowed me to have the parts on hand for the repair.

Regarding the iABS, I have removed mine about a year ago. I wrapped the electronic section of the pump in the silicone self-sealing rescue tape. I then hung it via two large zip ties from the frame in the area that the ABS pumped lived. No problems so far with rain or riding, etc.

Hope this helps.

Sammy
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post #5 of 20 Old Jun 30th, 2014, 10:08 am Thread Starter
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

Sammy

Thanks for the reply. I will check the pump/hose tonight. I like the silicone sealing tape idea as well. I was going to try wrapping the board and connector inside a rubber tire tube next.

If the pump and hose looks good, I'll start to chase the electrical rabbit I guess. I found a relay in the Clymer manual that is called the emergency Shut off, I think that will be a good place to start.
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post #6 of 20 Old Jun 30th, 2014, 10:42 pm Thread Starter
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

I am eating my Hat...earlier I said I was pretty sure that the fuel line was fine...well it was not. The little end coming off the fuel filter slipped off. I was 100% sure I snugged the fuel line on tight when I replaced it last summer, but I guess I did not. I was able to slip it back on and turn the nut several full turns, maybe the rubber shrunk, i dunno, dont care either, It runs again with the line attached YEAH...now on to the brake light issue. I sure would like to ride this thing soon.

Thanks again to all the great help this forum offers a guy like me.
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post #7 of 20 Old Jun 30th, 2014, 11:19 pm
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

The brake lamp switches are ass-backwards on the IABS, at least on the R1150RTs. So don't be surprised if you see a closed circuit without the lever or pedal pushed. They should be normally closed circuits until the lever or pedal is moved.


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post #8 of 20 Old Jul 1st, 2014, 7:12 am
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoGrant View Post
So, I got all the IABS parts removed, ran new lines as documented, pulled the controller card out of the ABS modulator placed it inside a plastic zip lock bag and went for a very short ride to test the brakes SANS servo.
....
.....
I also noticed that the brake lights are on without applying either brake. Could the brake light switches be causing a no start? I doubt it, but I will try to set the rear brake rod actuator adjustment.

Please don't bother posting about why I removed the servo assist, it failed for the second time and I just can't afford to pay $2300 for a new unit.

Thanks for any help you can offer.
On IABS models, both brake switches signal is feed into the ABS-Unit electronics (the top of the unit with the big conenctor that you kept).

As Dean said, the signal is such that it is reversed compare to most brake switches of earler models (or bike from Japan): there should be switch continuity between the 2 wires when lever/pedal is at rest and the circuit is interrupted (no continuity) when brake is applied (in fact switch should "Click" fairly early in lever/pedal travel).

The consequences of that design is that any time either switch is disconnected from circuit (or a wire broken) the ABS-modulator "thinks" that lever/pedal is pressed. The same behavior will happen if either switch is stuck "on" when ignition is turned ON (you should NOT press brakes during IABS diagnostic period (2 to 5 seconds after ignition ON).

To eliminate cause, you can follow each front/rear switch connector and use OhmMeter to check continuity with and without lever/pedal applied (ignition is OFF for these tests). Because some work was done on the ABS-unit (to separate electronics) I would suspect that something was damaged - either in the delicate pins of the big modulator connector OR inside the connection between connector and the circuit board.

In your case, the best 1st test would be at the large ABS-modulator connector - this way you would know if continuity is "as expected" at that level - just before entering the unit. be careful when pulling out that big connector, some of the pins (on the modulator side) are quite delicate. See 2 attached picture for pins to use with OhmMeter.

*** IMPORTANT: I would suggest to disconnect battery before you work on this - just in case you touch wrong pins.
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John (Montreal, CANADA)
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post #9 of 20 Old Jul 1st, 2014, 11:17 am
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanwoolsey View Post
The brake lamp switches are ass-backwards on the IABS, at least on the R1150RTs. So don't be surprised if you see a closed circuit without the lever or pedal pushed. They should be normally closed circuits until the lever or pedal is moved.
FWIW - this only continues "backwards-tradition" started already with ABS2/-99LT. So if you for example remove the switch (circuit open), the brake light is always on.

Born to be wild so why not

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post #10 of 20 Old Jul 2nd, 2014, 9:22 am Thread Starter
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

UPDATE. Thank you Sailor for pointing out something rather obvious..One of the little pins in the male side of the ABS module connector somehow got pushed back and was not able to fully connect with the other half of the plug. I fixed that and miraculously both rear brake switches started working properly.

I put enough stuff back on the bike to go for a little ride around my block. I will put it all back together soon and with luck will be riding this weekend somewhere!
Thanks to all who have posted on this site and built on the collective knowledge base!

Grant
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post #11 of 20 Old Jul 2nd, 2014, 9:36 am
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoGrant View Post
UPDATE. Thank you Sailor for pointing out something rather obvious..One of the little pins in the male side of the ABS module connector somehow got pushed back and was not able to fully connect with the other half of the plug. I fixed that and miraculously both rear brake switches started working properly.

I put enough stuff back on the bike to go for a little ride around my block. I will put it all back together soon and with luck will be riding this weekend somewhere!
Thanks to all who have posted on this site and built on the collective knowledge base!

Grant
Glad you got it fixed !

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K1200RS (2002 IceBlue/Red - 96,000 miles)
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post #12 of 20 Old Jul 5th, 2014, 10:01 pm
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

Rather than start a new thread, thought I would just jump on the end of this one. I too, just completed the IABS-ectomy on my 2002 LT. (Went with Spiegler lines, love them!) I pulled the abs warning relay as noted in another thread but I still get the flashing warning light. Not the ABS light but the one right next to it, the triangle with the exclamation point. Did I miss something? Also, and this may be related, I have an electrical connection down by the fuel line QDs that I can't find a mate for. For the life of me I can't remember it was open when I took the bike apart. It is a 2 prong female connection with a brown wire and a red w/yellow wire. Anybody know anything about that. If not, I'll have to take the gas tank off again and try to find a lonely wire somewhere.

Thanks in advance for any help. Knowing that this community exists and having read many, if not all the posts about abs, gave me the confidence to tackle the job on my own.

Chuck H
2002 K1200LT "Queen Mary"
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post #13 of 20 Old Jul 5th, 2014, 10:07 pm
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

That extra connector is for an optional outlet on the right side just like the one on the left.
If you snip the Brown/Red wire on pin 9 of the ABS connector that will stop the other warning light.

John
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2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
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Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #14 of 20 Old Jul 5th, 2014, 10:10 pm
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

Ok. Thanks. That's what I needed to know. Snipping that wire won't effect anything else, right?

Chuck H
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post #15 of 20 Old Jul 5th, 2014, 10:18 pm
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

It goes right to the light in the dash and no where else.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #16 of 20 Old Jul 5th, 2014, 10:29 pm
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

Great! I'll jump on that tomorrow. Thanks for the quick response. I'm glad you were online.

Chuck H
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post #17 of 20 Old Jul 7th, 2014, 10:24 am Thread Starter
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

Chuck

Which relay did you pull? Where is it located. I snipped the wire going to pin #10 on the connector to stop the wig wag, but have a constant red light on the ABS indicator. I too will snip the wire going to pin #9 to turn off the other triangle malfunction indicator.

I have been riding around getting used to NON Linked servo brakes again. My observations are that the brakes are predictable and adequate, but not as good grabby and immediate as the factory setup. All in all, I am happy that I now have 1 less item to worry about that could leave me stranded or severely hampered on a long road trip to Starbucks, lol.
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post #18 of 20 Old Jul 7th, 2014, 7:15 pm
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

The ABS Warning Relay is located under the gas tank, adjacent to the air filter box. Page 307 of the Clymer manual shows which one. It is the relay in the upper left corner of figure 67 (it's color is lighter than all the rest). On my bike it was the only blue relay. (I'll try to attach a scan of the page).

After I snipped #9 wire, the light went out and everything seems fine. I have only taken a very short test ride, but like the results. I will probably bleed the fronts again as I'm getting a bit more lever travel than I would like.
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Chuck H
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post #19 of 20 Old Jul 8th, 2014, 10:55 am Thread Starter
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

Hi again, I found the relay in my Clymer manual as well. I somehow knew it was going to be there under the tank. I am NOT going to pull the tupperware off anytime soon. I will just ignore the light on the dash. I'll snip the wire for pin 9 though.


As far a front brake lever travel, I read in Clymer somewhere that I was supposed to rotate the knob on the lever to position #4 if I was down to residual braking, so I rotated it. It seems to help.
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post #20 of 20 Old Jul 8th, 2014, 11:14 am
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Re: IABS removed, Bike started fine ran for a bit and died

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoGrant View Post


As far a front brake lever travel, I read in Clymer somewhere that I was supposed to rotate the knob on the lever to position #4 if I was down to residual braking, so I rotated it. It seems to help.
the lever should be firm without the sensitivity of the power brakes

Gary
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