Transmission removal - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 25 Old Jun 16th, 2006, 1:57 pm Thread Starter
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Question Transmission removal

I am about to swap out my transmission (4th gear gone) and have the SM. In reading through the procedure to remove gearbox there seem to be a lot of unrelated things that they tell you to remove, for instance, the radiator fans and fuel rail. Is it really necessary?
This is my first time doing an LT drive train and welcome any tips to make it go smoother. Also, any special tools ? I saw some reference to a special 30mm wrench. What is it for?
I have read some of the posts, but it is hard to separate the good stuff from the noise.

This is a 2002 with 40k and I will be doing:
1) Check/replace clutch slave
2) Check for main seal leaks.
3) Replace input/output shaft seals on 'new' gearbox.
4) Drill the hole for the slave cylinder.
5) Replace gearbox (thanks Ed)
6) Sell old gearbox as is on eBay.

Thanks

-Brian Louw
Arroyo Grande, CA.

2013 K1600GT - Light Grey Metallic
2016 R1200GSA
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post #2 of 25 Old Jun 16th, 2006, 8:19 pm
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The fans do not get removed, but the radiators need to be popped loose from the mounts to avoid stress when the frame is lifted. I don't remove the fuel rail, but I do pull it loose from the intake manifolds to get it out of the way for getting the throttle bodies off and back on.

The 30mm socket is used to properly torque the swingarm pivot lock ring while maintaining the proper preload on the bearings with an allen wrench. You don't need the factory tool, but you will have to adapt a socket by making a hole in it to do the same thing.

I'd be interested in your old tranny if it's cheap enough and you want to avoid ebay. PM me if your interested, or have other questions.

Paul Ford
01 R1150GS
90 K1200
73 R75/2
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post #3 of 25 Old Jun 16th, 2006, 11:04 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks, Paul.
I'll keep ypu in mind when it is time to dispose of old tranny.
Need to look at manual for pre-loading procedure for swing arm bearings.

-Brian Louw
Arroyo Grande, CA.

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2016 R1200GSA
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post #4 of 25 Old Jun 17th, 2006, 6:15 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blouw
I am about to swap out my transmission (4th gear gone) and have the SM. In reading through the procedure to remove gearbox there seem to be a lot of unrelated things that they tell you to remove, for instance, the radiator fans and fuel rail. Is it really necessary?
This is my first time doing an LT drive train and welcome any tips to make it go smoother. Also, any special tools ? I saw some reference to a special 30mm wrench. What is it for?
I have read some of the posts, but it is hard to separate the good stuff from the noise.

This is a 2002 with 40k and I will be doing:
1) Check/replace clutch slave
2) Check for main seal leaks.
3) Replace input/output shaft seals on 'new' gearbox.
4) Drill the hole for the slave cylinder.
5) Replace gearbox (thanks Ed)
6) Sell old gearbox as is on eBay.

Thanks
Agree with Paul re. fans in place and detach the rad clips. I simply remove the air box prior to trans removal. The more you can lower the rear of the engine the easier it is to slide the tranny in and out of position.
When installing trans be sure to place in gear to rotate splines for alignment, You may also need to shift to reverse when aligning with the starter motor.

Pete Murray
IBA # 359 and
2014 RT
1973 R75/5
2002 LT 171 K Gone
2008 FJR 36 K Gone
Stroudsburg, PA
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post #5 of 25 Old Jun 17th, 2006, 4:09 pm Thread Starter
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Thanks.
Gearbox is on the floor. See attached picture. Took me and welcome helping hand from another board member, Channing Fell, about 5 hrs. Learning as we went. It definitely helps to get as much as possible out of the way.
Only thing we forgot was the starter motor wires - slowed us down just a bit.
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-Brian Louw
Arroyo Grande, CA.

2013 K1600GT - Light Grey Metallic
2016 R1200GSA

Last edited by blouw; Jun 17th, 2006 at 4:21 pm.
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post #6 of 25 Old Jun 17th, 2006, 4:21 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blouw
Thanks.
Gearbox is on the floor. Took me and welcome helping hand from another board member, Channing Fell, about 5 hrs. Learning as we went. It definitely helps to get as much as possible out of the way.
Only thing we forgot was the starter motor wires - slowed us down just a bit.
Great job, Brian and Channing. Now you guyz git that replacement put in and everythang checked out before next Satiday, then take a run down to Grif's place for the tech session and tell us all about how the process worked.

You taking any pictures, Brian??
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post #7 of 25 Old Jun 17th, 2006, 4:54 pm
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post #8 of 25 Old Jun 17th, 2006, 4:55 pm
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Dick,
I planted the seed that Brian disassemble and attempt repair of the old tranny ... of course he can do that after his bike is roadworthy again... The reasoning is if he has a "backup" tranny, it is less likely he'll ever "need" one again.. =)

Brian,
It was a pleasure to work this project with you... I hope going back together is less "painful"... literally!

Thanks to your wife, I have a mission tonight or tomorrow to get wording on that T-shirt changed.... excellent idea!! I'll post a pic when done.

I hope the reassemble goes smoothly!

...............
J.M.J...
Dcn Channing

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post #9 of 25 Old Jun 17th, 2006, 11:15 pm Thread Starter
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Took a few pictures, but some of them came out a bit blurred. Will post when I get a chance. Hope to make it to Grif's Saturday, but doubt the bike will be together. Might just bring the tranny down and we can all have look see what went wrong.
Need to order a few parts - new seals, slave cylinder (just started leaking), QD coupling on fuel line broke when I took it off, etc.

-Brian Louw
Arroyo Grande, CA.

2013 K1600GT - Light Grey Metallic
2016 R1200GSA
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post #10 of 25 Old Jun 18th, 2006, 9:01 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blouw
Need to order a few parts - new seals, slave cylinder (just started leaking), QD coupling on fuel line broke when I took it off, etc.
Hmmmmm - sounds like wrenching at my place!! SNAFU , butt repairable!!

If you're up for breakfast next Satiday, we usually break biscuits/gravy around 0700 at the Blanco Bowling Alley Cafe (BBAC). Off the NE corner of the town square.
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post #11 of 25 Old Jun 26th, 2006, 2:30 pm Thread Starter
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Thumbs up

The deed is done. Thanks for all the help and support. It was not difficult to do, just time consuming (especially as it was first time).
Got it all buttoned up Saturday morning, put on my gear, told my wife I would be back either real soon or later in the afternoon because I was heading down to Grif's place for the tech session. That was my test ride . Only problem was that I hadn't bled the clutch slave properly and it wasn't disengaging completely.
Anyway, had the co-ords of Grif in my GPS and met a bunch of new guys, including Grif for the first time.
This is sure a friendly bunch of people - Grif, Dick, Channing, Russ, Alan, etc. Grif quickly sorted out the clutch bleeding with his handy-dandy suction thingy and all was well again.
BTW, IOU one bottle of brake fluid, Grif.
I need to take the bike to the dealer to get the swing arm lock nut torqued properly. You need that special 30mm tool.
Does anybody perhaps know where to get one or how difficult it is to make for future reference ?
Bear in mind, I don't have access to a machine shop.

Time to ride with 5 gears again.

-Brian Louw
Arroyo Grande, CA.

2013 K1600GT - Light Grey Metallic
2016 R1200GSA
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post #12 of 25 Old Jun 14th, 2016, 1:37 pm
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Re: Transmission removal

In the process of pulling trans

Have new clutch disk, new engine rear seal, and moly lube

Pulling swingarm tonight, leaving final drive on it, so I won't need to play with that preload.
Will pull swingarm and lube shaft after it is off.

after I pull slave, what is next.

FYI I have it suspended from above using 4x4 rig I made
pulled exhaust, and kickstand and all rear bags to allow better access

Please any advice is appreciated
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2000 K1200LT & 86 K75 for fun again

Prev rides
1992 BMW K75
1994 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1985 Goldwing
1977 Yamaha RD400
1982 Honda MB5
1979 Yamaha XS 650

if it ain't fun, don't own it
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post #13 of 25 Old Jun 14th, 2016, 2:18 pm
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Re: Transmission removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkinskg View Post
In the process of pulling trans

Have new clutch disk, new engine rear seal, and moly lube

Pulling swingarm tonight, leaving final drive on it, so I won't need to play with that preload.
Will pull swingarm and lube shaft after it is off.

after I pull slave, what is next.

FYI I have it suspended from above using 4x4 rig I made
pulled exhaust, and kickstand and all rear bags to allow better access

Please any advice is appreciated
Keith, you are posting on a 10 year old thread.

Just a few notes. If you don't have a Clymer manual, I suggest you get one and follow the procedure in the book. This is a complex job and one of the most difficult most will ever undertake on an LT outside a dealer. Lots of moving parts to deal with.

You can take the swing arm off with the FD attached but you can't get it back together that way so they will need to come apart at some point. The drive shaft will stay on the transmission output shaft when you separate the swing arm and it will be impossible to get it attached back to the output shaft unless the FD is removed.

There are other parts you will need besides the main seal. To get to it you need to remove the clutch and clutch housing which holds an o-ring seal so that needs to be replaced along with the nut which is a one time use only. The 6 clutch bolts and star washers are also a one time use. If the clutch is slipping, then one or more of the seals in the bell housing may be leaking including the slave or the slave seal.

The engine will need to be lowered from the back and to do that, you need to pop the clips on the radirator fans and the air box needs to come off so all tupperware and the tank need to come off and the throttle body needs to come off to allow for the engine to swing down.

You need come special tools also.


Before I go any further, how much of this do you have and do you understand the job you are undertaking?

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #14 of 25 Old Jun 18th, 2016, 8:19 pm
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Re: Transmission removal

Thank You for the advice

Trans came out today.

Was not fun, but did not break anything.
I did not pull airbox or throttle bodies, removed battery box so trans did not have to come down as much.
I have frame suspended by 4x4 frame I made.

I bought new clutch, rear main seal and bought brass final drive bushings.

I did not like the way the roller races looked.

Will be progressing when I have time.

2000 K1200LT & 86 K75 for fun again

Prev rides
1992 BMW K75
1994 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1985 Goldwing
1977 Yamaha RD400
1982 Honda MB5
1979 Yamaha XS 650

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post #15 of 25 Old Jun 18th, 2016, 9:31 pm
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Re: Transmission removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkinskg View Post
Thank You for the advice

Trans came out today.

Was not fun, but did not break anything.
I did not pull airbox or throttle bodies, removed battery box so trans did not have to come down as much.
I have frame suspended by 4x4 frame I made.

I bought new clutch, rear main seal and bought brass final drive bushings.

I did not like the way the roller races looked.

Will be progressing when I have time.
Great, keep us posted and let us know if we can help in any way. There are many threads with detailed instructions and pictures plus parts lists for what you need to do the job. Good luck.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #16 of 25 Old Jun 19th, 2016, 12:32 pm
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Re: Transmission removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkinskg View Post
Thank You for the advice

Trans came out today.

Was not fun, but did not break anything.
I did not pull airbox or throttle bodies, removed battery box so trans did not have to come down as much.
I have frame suspended by 4x4 frame I made.

I bought new clutch, rear main seal and bought brass final drive bushings.

I did not like the way the roller races looked.

Will be progressing when I have time.
I am surprised you could lower the engine far enough without causing issues with at least the #4 air box clamp. Just be sure it doesn't slip off and get scrunched when you raise the engine.

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post #17 of 25 Old Jun 20th, 2016, 7:50 pm
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Re: Transmission removal

OK next step

Was able to remove clutch cover allen bolts 6, got them off without any dramma.

No oil in bell housing just some soot.
Clutch disk is warn, slight blueing on pressure surfaces, not much, will sand with fine paper to remove shine.

I was surprised how the cover bolts came out so well.

The the real surprise, the crank nut came off without any drama also, almost too lose, not lose but not crazy tight like I have seen in youtube video's.

Need to use pick to remove o ring and allow driven assembly out.

Have new seal and nut plus o ring in waiting.

Will repost after next step.

2000 K1200LT & 86 K75 for fun again

Prev rides
1992 BMW K75
1994 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1985 Goldwing
1977 Yamaha RD400
1982 Honda MB5
1979 Yamaha XS 650

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post #18 of 25 Old Jun 20th, 2016, 7:53 pm
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Re: Transmission removal

If you notice I removed all rear boxes, in my opinion, time well spent.


I am able to really see and work without having to stick my head under it all the time.

2000 K1200LT & 86 K75 for fun again

Prev rides
1992 BMW K75
1994 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1985 Goldwing
1977 Yamaha RD400
1982 Honda MB5
1979 Yamaha XS 650

if it ain't fun, don't own it
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post #19 of 25 Old Jun 21st, 2016, 6:36 pm
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Re: Transmission removal

While your methods are a bit unconventional I applaud your technique for showing us all a new way to skin this cat. For most with the integrated ABS removing all the battery and ABS boxes to avoid dropping the engine as far is too much work but certainly doable for a 99-2001 bike.

Nothing like a new perspective. For years everyone was convinced that the ONLY way to remove the fuel pump was to pull the tank. It can be done with the tank in place while only requiring you to remove the crash bar support.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 114 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #20 of 25 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 9:17 pm
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Re: Transmission removal

Trans went in last night, bell housing, frame connection bolt.
Splines slid in smooth.

Greased all proper areas with moly lube from beamer boneyard.
Bought grease and clutch disk from them.
Regular german disk, not grease proof one.

Also did rear main seal on engine.
Used 3/4" pipe with base on it seen on a web site as seal installer.
Also was able to use pipe to push in new o ring.

Then Torqued in nut to 37 ft/lbs, then another few degrees.

Have brass bushing kit for FD PB.
was just reading over its procedure, found a good write up and technique.

found below article, very good details and tools

Bmw Pivot Bearing Replacement | RVB Precision

2000 K1200LT & 86 K75 for fun again

Prev rides
1992 BMW K75
1994 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1985 Goldwing
1977 Yamaha RD400
1982 Honda MB5
1979 Yamaha XS 650

if it ain't fun, don't own it
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post #21 of 25 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 9:25 pm
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Re: Transmission removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkinskg View Post
Trans went in last night, bell housing, frame connection bolt.
Splines slid in smooth.

Greased all proper areas with moly lube from beamer boneyard.
Bought grease and clutch disk from them.
Regular german disk, not grease proof one.

Also did rear main seal on engine.
Used 3/4" pipe with base on it seen on a web site as seal installer.
Also was able to use pipe to push in new o ring.

Then Torqued in nut to 37 ft/lbs, then another few degrees.

Have brass bushing kit for FD PB.
was just reading over its procedure, found a good write up and technique.

found below article, very good details and tools

Bmw Pivot Bearing Replacement | RVB Precision

The actual tightening procedure with a NEW nut is to tighten to 103 Ft Lbs and then loosen completely, then tighten again to 37 Ft Lbs plus 60 degrees which is one flat of the nut in rotation. It is a stretching process and the new nut has a cut in it that closes up during the process. If you only did as you said above, I would disassemble it and start again. This isn't a part you want coming loose. If you reused the old nut, there is no way to gauge the torque that is on the nut after the stretching process. It is a one time use nut.

Gordon
Sugar Hill, GA
2001 K1200LTI Champagne (current ride) Lazy Susan
1998 R1100RT Never should have sold it
1974 Yamaha TX 750 Twin. Omni Phase Balanced


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post #22 of 25 Old Jun 27th, 2016, 9:59 pm
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Re: Transmission removal

The inspiration to remove bags etc came from doing clutch on k75.
Taking off easy stuff just makes access better.

Not messing with radiators, or intakes just makes sense.

Motor drops by 5 or 6 inches and intake moves with motor.

Also my space in garage is limited so losing weight helped with access, was able to ride into garage remove seat, then start the real work.

It is a journey, not a repair procedure, older k75 was designed so much better. A buch of smart people must have retired before k1200 was developed and released.
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Prev rides
1992 BMW K75
1994 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1985 Goldwing
1977 Yamaha RD400
1982 Honda MB5
1979 Yamaha XS 650

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post #23 of 25 Old Jun 28th, 2016, 5:49 am
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Re: Transmission removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkinskg View Post
....
.....
It is a journey, not a repair procedure, older k75 was designed so much better. A buch of smart people must have retired before k1200 was developed and released.
I have to disagree with this last sentence above. The K1200RS/LT platform had specific design constraints that made everything more difficult to access for maintenance.

It all began with the K100 design (1983) having an engine rigidly mounted / suspended on a simple tubing frame. One of the major problems was the high frequency vibration (buzz) from this 4 cylinders engine that was felt everywhere (handlebars, foot pegs). This was not fully solved ether with the K1100 as engine was also rigidly mounted. The K75 was the exception as the 3 cylinders at 120 deg offset ADDED by counter balancing shaft made everything smooth.

Major design constraints / requirements of the K1200RS/LT platform was to have engine fully rubber mounted (almost floating) into a very rigid frame. In such design it is not possible to use combined rigidity of engine+frame bolted together. Hence, from that design the frame encompass everything from steering-head to swing-arm attachment points making things not accessible like on K100 / K75. Also, including the new Front TeleLever suspension made this new frame design even more complex (need pivot point attachment, radiator split in 2 sections....)

Of course, from another engineer standpoint it might have been simpler to just design a better / newer engine that did not have high frequency vibrations for the K1200RS/LT instead of this complex frame to work-around the problem. I have to assume there was no budget and no time for this around 1994 (roughly 1994 as the K1200RS came out in 1997).

Later, the "new engine" solution was opted for eventually for the "slant-4" engine platform in 2005 - a completely new 4 cylinders engine designed from scratch (and later a six from same design). By year 2000, I am sure that everyone at BMW knew the "brick-engine" had reached its limits since the original design early 1980. One piston bore to make the K1100, then a stroke increase to make a 1200 with 130HP (on K1200RS). No more "band-aids" fix could have extended the usage of this older engine design - the engine was reliable but it was very long and heavy. It was time to start over with a more modern / compact engine design.
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-------------------------------------------------
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post #24 of 25 Old Jun 28th, 2016, 7:36 am
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Re: Transmission removal

Thanks appreciate the note, I believe it is torqued ok, thank you

2000 K1200LT & 86 K75 for fun again

Prev rides
1992 BMW K75
1994 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1985 Goldwing
1977 Yamaha RD400
1982 Honda MB5
1979 Yamaha XS 650

if it ain't fun, don't own it
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post #25 of 25 Old Jun 28th, 2016, 7:39 am
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Re: Transmission removal

cool to hear more history, good info
Now I understand why I like to buzz around on my k75 Smooooth

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
I have to disagree with this last sentence above. The K1200RS/LT platform had specific design constraints that made everything more difficult to access for maintenance.

It all began with the K100 design (1983) having an engine rigidly mounted / suspended on a simple tubing frame. One of the major problems was the high frequency vibration (buzz) from this 4 cylinders engine that was felt everywhere (handlebars, foot pegs). This was not fully solved ether with the K1100 as engine was also rigidly mounted. The K75 was the exception as the 3 cylinders at 120 deg offset ADDED by counter balancing shaft made everything smooth.

Major design constraints / requirements of the K1200RS/LT platform was to have engine fully rubber mounted (almost floating) into a very rigid frame. In such design it is not possible to use combined rigidity of engine+frame bolted together. Hence, from that design the frame encompass everything from steering-head to swing-arm attachment points making things not accessible like on K100 / K75. Also, including the new Front TeleLever suspension made this new frame design even more complex (need pivot point attachment, radiator split in 2 sections....)

Of course, from another engineer standpoint it might have been simpler to just design a better / newer engine that did not have high frequency vibrations for the K1200RS/LT instead of this complex frame to work-around the problem. I have to assume there was no budget and no time for this around 1994 (roughly 1994 as the K1200RS came out in 1997).

Later, the "new engine" solution was opted for eventually for the "slant-4" engine platform in 2005 - a completely new 4 cylinders engine designed from scratch (and later a six from same design). By year 2000, I am sure that everyone at BMW knew the "brick-engine" had reached its limits since the original design early 1980. One piston bore to make the K1100, then a stroke increase to make a 1200 with 130HP (on K1200RS). No more "band-aids" fix could have extended the usage of this older engine design - the engine was reliable but it was very long and heavy. It was time to start over with a more modern / compact engine design.

2000 K1200LT & 86 K75 for fun again

Prev rides
1992 BMW K75
1994 Suzuki Intruder 1400
1985 Goldwing
1977 Yamaha RD400
1982 Honda MB5
1979 Yamaha XS 650

if it ain't fun, don't own it
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