Hydraulic Center Stand Fails 2x - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 47 Old Jun 15th, 2006, 6:47 am Thread Starter
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Hydraulic Center Stand Fails 2x

About a month ago the hydraulic center stand on my '05 pissed all over my garage floor. I called the dealer and inquired about having it replaced/repaired. I was informed that it's not re-buildable and they would order the parts necessary to fix the problem. Well, it took over two weeks for them to call back and tell me they had received the parts. At that point life is good and all is working well. Unfortunately, yesterday, approximately two weeks after the repair, that bugger once again decided to relieve itself on the pavement. Called the dealer again and was told, "Yea, we've had several of those fail shortly after installation. We'll order another and call when it comes in". Wondering if anyone else has had premature failure or is it strictly a function of my robust body being lifted by the hydraulics?

So, I've read several threads about folks wanting to convert their pre '05s to the new center stand. My current thoughts are, Gee- I wonder if I can remove the hydraulics and convert back to the old manual stand!

Lynn Keen
North East Florida
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'05 GRAPHITE METALLIC retired at 87,000 MI
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post #2 of 47 Old Jun 15th, 2006, 6:51 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
So, I've read several threads about folks wanting to convert their pre '05s to the new center stand. My current thoughts are, Gee- I wonder if I can remove the hydraulics and convert back to the old manual stand!
I would suspect that you could do that. Should be a two-way street.

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post #3 of 47 Old Jun 15th, 2006, 6:53 am
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My 05 centerstand was replaced at 1500 miles, since then I have been using it only after my SO has dismounted and I am stradling the bike. So far so good.

The book says it can lift you ,SO, and loaded????? I have my doubts. So now I play it safe, it still is a nice feature, but I am more carefull.



Glen
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post #4 of 47 Old Jun 15th, 2006, 7:01 am
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There has been many reports of the new centerstand failing. The one on my 99 works so effortlessly that I have to wonder why BMW bothered with it.

Two weeks for parts doesn't sound too bad. I have been waiting three weeks for throttle cables. The dealer says that BMW keeps sending the wrong ones. Hopefully the second time works for you.
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post #5 of 47 Old Jun 15th, 2006, 8:32 am
 
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No problems so far, but like Glen it only lifts the bike. Do you put a plate or anything under the feet when you use it? The stand would work harder if the plate was very thick. With weight on the pillion and suspension compressed it would have to work harder due to the early contact angle also.
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post #6 of 47 Old Jun 15th, 2006, 9:09 am
 
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I use mine constantly. I've used it with just me and with 2up and loaded without fail. Most of the time it's only lifting me and some equip so I'll be kind to myself and say only about 275 lbs. My only issue with it is that there is "NO" means to use it manually since there is no place to use your foot. This past winter I moved the bike in the garage with the battery removed and had to then use the side stand. I prefer the center stand so I can get it closer to the wall where it will take up less space.
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post #7 of 47 Old Jun 15th, 2006, 10:21 am
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Where did you mount the button/switch to engage it? I was thinking of using a PTT type button mounted by my throttle grip. I have an '02 and not sure if that's a good idea or not.
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post #8 of 47 Old Jun 15th, 2006, 11:18 am
 
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I use mine everyday, 26,000 miles, no trouble yet.
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post #9 of 47 Old Jun 15th, 2006, 1:12 pm
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What's failing

I'd be interested in knowing what part is failing. If it's a hose, maybe you could replace it with one that is more robust...

Just an idea.

John

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post #10 of 47 Old Jun 15th, 2006, 1:16 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
About a month ago the hydraulic center stand on my '05 pissed all over my garage floor. I called the dealer and inquired about having it replaced/repaired. I was informed that it's not re-buildable and they would order the parts necessary to fix the problem. Well, it took over two weeks for them to call back and tell me they had received the parts. At that point life is good and all is working well. Unfortunately, yesterday, approximately two weeks after the repair, that bugger once again decided to relieve itself on the pavement. Called the dealer again and was told, "Yea, we've had several of those fail shortly after installation. We'll order another and call when it comes in". Wondering if anyone else has had premature failure or is it strictly a function of my robust body being lifted by the hydraulics?

So, I've read several threads about folks wanting to convert their pre '05s to the new center stand. My current thoughts are, Gee- I wonder if I can remove the hydraulics and convert back to the old manual stand!

Well, dang, Lynn...

Sounds like one of our favorite British cars...did you exorcise that garage after ya sold the A???? If not, then you need to order some Guinness and WD40 and have a REAL tech session!
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post #11 of 47 Old Jun 15th, 2006, 1:22 pm
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My Dealer told me that they had never worked on one so he just ordered a new unit. When it first happened and I asked the borad, I was told by others they had seal and motor problems.

Sounds like A future recall??

Glen
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post #12 of 47 Old Jun 15th, 2006, 2:30 pm
 
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Exclamation I've said it time and time again...

I want no part with that stupid (outta be an OPTION) hydraulic centerstand. I am so glad that my new GT will have the manual stand. Sorry to hear about your problems Lynn.
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post #13 of 47 Old Jun 16th, 2006, 8:21 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
I want no part with that stupid (outta be an OPTION) hydraulic centerstand. I am so glad that my new GT will have the manual stand. Sorry to hear about your problems Lynn.
I agree (outta be an OPTION). Unfortunately it's not!

Lynn Keen
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post #14 of 47 Old Jun 16th, 2006, 8:24 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawg
Well, dang, Lynn...

Sounds like one of our favorite British cars...did you exorcise that garage after ya sold the A???? If not, then you need to order some Guinness and WD40 and have a REAL tech session!
I'll have to work on the exorcisim, but in the mean time the Guinness sounds good! Besides, the center stand on the "A" never gave me trouble but those 'ol down draft carbs made up for it!!

Lynn Keen
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post #15 of 47 Old Jun 16th, 2006, 8:26 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpspen
I'd be interested in knowing what part is failing. If it's a hose, maybe you could replace it with one that is more robust...

Just an idea.

John
It's the seal on the cylinder and they tell me it's a throw-away. Not rebuildable.

Lynn Keen
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'01 R1150 GS- totaled
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post #16 of 47 Old Jun 16th, 2006, 8:32 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TandemCyclist
No problems so far, but like Glen it only lifts the bike. Do you put a plate or anything under the feet when you use it? The stand would work harder if the plate was very thick. With weight on the pillion and suspension compressed it would have to work harder due to the early contact angle also.
Nope, nothing under the stand. I do however use it with both me and the SO on the bike. Actually the only thing I like about it is that I can use it as described above. The wife's mobility is limited by arthertis and therefore she's much more comfortable mounting and dismounting the bike while it's on the center stand. It's more stable for her to get on and off. Even though we're both "mature adults", if you know what I mean, it's supposed to be able to handle the extra weight. Besides, dealer says it's not the first time they've seen this problem. Maybe the third time will be the charm.

Lynn Keen
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post #17 of 47 Old Jun 16th, 2006, 8:55 am
 
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Exclamation Just remember Lynn...

You're sig line reads "CURRENTLY ENJOYING A GRAPHITE METALLIC '05"!
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post #18 of 47 Old Jun 17th, 2006, 3:55 pm
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Electric Centre Stand Wows

I've had a background in hydraulics and pneumatics, and when I saw the size of the cylinder that operates the centre stand my first impression was "that little suckers gonna do it tough".

My suggestion would be to assist the system by taking as much weight off the bike as possible before operating the electric stand.

Given that the bulk of the load is always the rider and pillion, by having the pillion dismount first, and the rider support some or all of their own weight by straddling the bike taking their own weight on your legs before operating the stand, will greatly reduce the operating pressure that is needed to lift the bike.

If rider and pillion add several hundred more pounds to the dead weight of an already heavy bike, its asking a lot from a such a small cylinder.

Given that once your bike is out of warranty any replacements will be at your cost, its probably a good idea to get into this habit now.

I also agree with the earlier posters who suggest the electric stand should have been an option. My 99 comes up onto the centre real easy when you use the right technique.

Cheers

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post #19 of 47 Old Jun 17th, 2006, 5:26 pm
 
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Mine is inconsistent, the motor winds, starts to lift then stop. Restart the bike and screw around and it work. It now fails 1 in four times on my 2005, the annoying part is the sidestand scares me and there is no manual option for the centre stand.

Off to the dealer next week..

Bruce
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post #20 of 47 Old Jun 18th, 2006, 8:37 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
You're sig line reads "CURRENTLY ENJOYING A GRAPHITE METALLIC '05"!
Your pretty observent my friend! Perhaps I should change it to

"OCCASSIONALLY ENJOYING A GRAPHITE METALLIC '05"

Lynn Keen
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post #21 of 47 Old Jun 18th, 2006, 11:17 am
 
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Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
Your pretty observent my friend! Perhaps I should change it to

"OCCASSIONALLY ENJOYING A GRAPHITE METALLIC '05"
Yea...that works.
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post #22 of 47 Old Jun 18th, 2006, 9:01 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
It's more stable for her to get on and off. Even though we're both "mature adults", if you know what I mean, it's supposed to be able to handle the extra weight.
Lynn, Where did you get information that it is supposed to handle the weight. My owners manual states to take your weight with your legs and never mentions the capability of taking the weight of a passenger. If I'm the design engineer, I'll design something to replace the manual stand. I've never seen anyone with a manual stand leave the passenger on while putting it on the stand. Just a thought.
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post #23 of 47 Old Jun 18th, 2006, 10:03 pm
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Mine won't lift me and bike, much less adding my passenger.

Failed by puking oil all over a year ago.. so far, workin' great!

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post #24 of 47 Old Jun 19th, 2006, 7:58 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TandemCyclist
Lynn, Where did you get information that it is supposed to handle the weight. My owners manual states to take your weight with your legs and never mentions the capability of taking the weight of a passenger. If I'm the design engineer, I'll design something to replace the manual stand. I've never seen anyone with a manual stand leave the passenger on while putting it on the stand. Just a thought.
Service manager at Daytona BMW.

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post #25 of 47 Old Jun 19th, 2006, 9:41 pm
 
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Sales person

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
Service manager at Daytona BMW.
A sales person before that I bet. Get it in writing before the warranty ends.
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post #26 of 47 Old Jun 20th, 2006, 3:47 pm Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TandemCyclist
A sales person before that I bet. Get it in writing before the warranty ends.
Nope, never talked to a sales person about the centerstand! OH yea, remember, BMW warranties repairs for two years and I also have a 6 year extended warranty so I should be able to keep blowing center stand seal for quite awhile!! :~)

Lynn Keen
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post #27 of 47 Old Dec 14th, 2006, 8:46 pm
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Lynn, If you have Pinacle they won't replace it! Having the same problem myself. Mine blew after a bolt broke and I didn't notice it. I replaced the bolt and it fell out. locktite and all!
Torqued it too! I didn't notice it was missing and meant to check but forgot, opps, Lousy system. Cylinder is of insuficent size. You shouldn't be lifting with passenger in place, it states driver and standing helps as most have said.
Take care and make sure it breaks before 3 years or 36,000 mi.

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post #28 of 47 Old Dec 14th, 2006, 9:44 pm
 
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Mine will lift my 280lb ass, but I don't let it. I do let it lift my wife. 31,000 miles & no trouble yet. 5,000 miles left on my warranty, I'm sure it wait at least 6,000 more miles before it goes out.
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post #29 of 47 Old Dec 15th, 2006, 9:12 am
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'BURST/BLOWN, RUPTURED"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn_Keen
Wondering if anyone else has had premature failure or is it strictly a function of my robust body being lifted by the hydraulics?

So, I've read several threads about folks wanting to convert their pre '05s to the new center stand. My current thoughts are, Gee- I wonder if I can remove the hydraulics and convert back to the old manual stand!
Ken,

You have stated the seal has failed. The "PISSING" you mentioned indicates a "BLOWN" seal. It should be inspected to see if it 'BURST/BLOWN, RUPTURED" all of which indicate the hydraulics lifting to much weight regardless of what the dealer say's. My Dad's backhoe did it allot when he tried to yank 10 yards of frozen soil with a three yard bucket. I have personally seen it happen on overloaded tailgate lifts.

I personally stand on my toes to take off most all my weight and run the rpm up a tad to keep that EMF (voltage) available.

It's a PITA to bring to dealer & have the bike out of commission!



BTW, I am able to deploy my center stand on my 06 LT manually (not easy) so one could probably weld a foot support side extension to it.
Merry Christmas!

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post #30 of 47 Old Dec 15th, 2006, 9:24 am Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nearmisses
Lynn, If you have Pinacle they won't replace it! Having the same problem myself. Mine blew after a bolt broke and I didn't notice it. I replaced the bolt and it fell out. locktite and all!
Torqued it too! I didn't notice it was missing and meant to check but forgot, opps, Lousy system. Cylinder is of insuficent size. You shouldn't be lifting with passenger in place, it states driver and standing helps as most have said.
Take care and make sure it breaks before 3 years or 36,000 mi.
Brian,
Yea, I do have Pinacle. I ass-u-me (d) they would cover the center stand. Do you have personal experience that would suggest otherwise?

Lynn Keen
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'05 GRAPHITE METALLIC retired at 87,000 MI
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'11 R1200RT currently being enjoyed

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post #31 of 47 Old Dec 15th, 2006, 9:36 am
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No Problems - yet

I have an '06 at 7,600 miles, it lifts both myself and my SO, plus the loaded bike with no problems. I have a friend in Boise with an '05 at 9,000 miles, and he uses the center stand several times a day - nary a problem either..
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post #32 of 47 Old Dec 18th, 2006, 10:01 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoBiker
I use mine constantly. I've used it with just me and with 2up and loaded without fail. Most of the time it's only lifting me and some equip so I'll be kind to myself and say only about 275 lbs. My only issue with it is that there is "NO" means to use it manually since there is no place to use your foot. This past winter I moved the bike in the garage with the battery removed and had to then use the side stand. I prefer the center stand so I can get it closer to the wall where it will take up less space.
Put a block of wood under your kickstand.
Jim

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post #33 of 47 Old Feb 10th, 2007, 10:09 am
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Hydraulic Centre Stand Failure

Having just bought a 2004 K1200LT (with only 3600 miles on the Clock) I am a little disturbed to read of the Stand Failures. I previously had a 99 LT for three years and never had a problem with the manual main stand. However, I have just had a look under the Bike and I notice that the Piston Rod which ties up with the Stand has severe corrosion just as if the Plating has failed. This will no doubt in turn cause failure of the seal with obvious results. Until it does actually fail I can,t see BMW replacing the unit. Are we sure that parts are not available for a rebuild. I notice that the Unit is made by Marzocchi in Italy. By the way, the paint finish on the Hydraulic Unit Carrier frame is Crap. Mine is about 50% down to bare metal and thats at a very low mileage.
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post #34 of 47 Old Feb 10th, 2007, 10:20 am
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Hydraulic Stand Failures

Oh, and has anyone else noticed how the Front "Cross Brace Tube" on the Hydraulic Unit Support Frame gouges lumps out of the Sump Fins. !!
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post #35 of 47 Old Feb 10th, 2007, 4:49 pm
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I've been having problems with my centerstand as well, but I attribute it to the handlebar switch needing to be replaced. Pushing the switch will not always work, but there is a "sweet spot" in the bottom right corner that if you concentrate on, will mostly work. Of course, sometimes it craps out when it is engaged but not locked, dumping the bike back down.

The biggest PITA about this issue is that I mentioned it to Daytona BMW when I had it in for the 12k service, and they went through the system and checked it. Yep, definitely not working right. Then they gave it back. Yeah.....thanks. So now it needs to go back for them to deal with it again.

Magic 8-Ball says..."I see a blown hydraulic seal in your future"

Cheers,

Adam
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post #36 of 47 Old Feb 11th, 2007, 7:25 am
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Unhappy Lift gone south!!!!!!!!

Replacement on order 25,000 miles. Problem is it fails to retract to full up position. Still under warranty (thank goodness) I'm told is a 1,500.00 part.
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post #37 of 47 Old Feb 11th, 2007, 10:41 am
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Converting center stand to manual

One thing I notice is the lack of ground clearance with the electric stand. I cannot go thru our state parks without dragging the cover over the speed bumps. Even by myself (185lbs) and not loaded the clearance is poor at best. No matter how slow I go it will hit the skid plate and the end of the stand pushing up with some leverage from end of stand. I wonder if this is putting excessive stress on the seal. It would put extreme pressure in the collapsed position of the hydraulic cylinder. So has anyone converted back to a manual lift??? I would be more willing to do that than pay for $1500 worth of parts. The longer I own this BMW the less I am impressed with some of the engineering. Should be the other way around.--------Rethy
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post #38 of 47 Old Feb 11th, 2007, 11:31 am
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Question Relief valve

I would think that they would have included an over pressure relief valve between the pump and the cylinder that would prevent over pressuring the cylinder if there was an overloaded condition while trying to lift the bike. Every hydraulic system I have ever designed or used had a safety over pressure relief feature of some sort. If it doesn't have one can one be added to the unit? or if it does have one can it be adjusted to prevent the cylinder from blowing the seals.
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post #39 of 47 Old Feb 11th, 2007, 11:45 am
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WOW ! I was pondering fitting the hydraulic unit on the fat lady, but not no more !

Besides, at my first attempt of getting her up on the stand, I was so suprized at how easy it was to do, I had to demonstrate it several times to some of the local lemming riders.

I would say this bike is 75% easier to get on the stand than my CBX ( we're talking mumbo-jumbo chants, and hernia phobia's to overcome before you even think about it).

The only thing I have a difficult time dealing with, is when my 'svelt' SO dismounts, but I'm getting used to it..

2000 K1200LT
1981 Honda CBX ( kind of for sale)
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post #40 of 47 Old Feb 12th, 2007, 7:33 pm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethy
One thing I notice is the lack of ground clearance with the electric stand. I cannot go thru our state parks without dragging the cover over the speed bumps. Even by myself (185lbs) and not loaded the clearance is poor at best. No matter how slow I go it will hit the skid plate and the end of the stand pushing up with some leverage from end of stand. Rethy
No it will just bend one of the legs on the center stand. When it's on the stand check to see if the little feet are flat on the ground. If not it's probably bent. Another tell tell is when it feels like it wants to roll to one side as the stand is deployed. Just straightened mine.
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post #41 of 47 Old Feb 13th, 2007, 8:11 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rethy
I wonder if this is putting excessive stress on the seal. It would put extreme pressure in the collapsed position of the hydraulic cylinder. Rethy
In the retracted position any movement of the stand will not stress the hydraulic cylinder. At that point there is considerable free play on the actuator rod and the whole cylinder also pivots. Maybe it's time for Ohlins? (or smaller speed bumps, write your congressmen).

John
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post #42 of 47 Old Feb 15th, 2007, 11:30 am
glo
 
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Hydraulic Stand Sub Frame

Please has anyone else noticed how the front "cross tube" of the Hydraulic Unit Support Frame fouls with the Sump Fins. Or advise how much clearance is there. Or is mine a one off. Please can anyone check ASAP and let me know. (only home for a day from working away)
Many Thanks in advance.
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post #43 of 47 Old Feb 15th, 2007, 3:38 pm
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Mine's Got CLearance

Glo,

I just crawled under "Ole Blue" at the office. I knew that powerful BMW light would come in handy.

I would guess there is 1/2" between my cross tubes and the fins. I couldn't get a camers here at the office or I'd send a picture.

Is there a noticeable "bend" in your frame, worn bushing or pin or something.

I only checked the bike "up", so the clearance may be less down, but, I see no sign of contact.

Doesn't sound too good.
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post #44 of 47 Old Feb 15th, 2007, 9:28 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joegottberg
I would guess there is 1/2" between my cross tubes and the fins. I couldn't get a camers here at the office or I'd send a picture.
I have a camera handy always... here's that area of mine, up on the centrestand at the time, if it helps.
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Chris
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2005 Dark Graphite Metallic K1200LT
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post #45 of 47 Old Feb 15th, 2007, 11:58 pm
glo
 
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Hydraulic Stand

Many thanks Guys, Seems like I have a Problem with mine. Looks like the previous owner has kerbed the Support Frame pushing it up into the Sump Fins (although there is no obvious signs of damage to the Frame itself of bash Plate) and following that the movement when operating the Stand has worn away the Fins and marked the Crosstube. Depth of metal removed from the Fins is about a milimetre. Funny thing is though, the little holes in the two Side Rubber Bushed Brackets line up with the threaded holes in the Frame so it is a mystery. Any suggestion much appreciated.
Thanks again
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post #46 of 47 Old Feb 16th, 2007, 12:03 am
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well, hopefully it helps when cornering.... hate it when the centrestand scrapes....

Chris
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post #47 of 47 Old Feb 16th, 2007, 6:37 am
glo
 
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Hydraulic Stand Problems

Problem solved. Thanks for the Photos and measurement Guys. My Sub Frame, although it didn,t look it was bent upwards at the front, causing the contact with the Sump Fins. Two blocks of wood to support both ends, one laid across the Frame and a good clout with a 25 pound Hammer. All holes line up and a half inch gap between Sump and Cross Tube.
Thanks Again Folks.
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