K13GT discontinued ??? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 46 Old Jan 2nd, 2011, 2:34 pm Thread Starter
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K13GT discontinued ???

Is it true that the current K13GT will be (or has been) discontinued, to be replaced by the lighter of the two models of 1,600 cc, 6 cylinder bikes? Apologies if this has already been discussed; if so, I just missed it. Thanx.

- Bob

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post #2 of 46 Old Jan 2nd, 2011, 2:58 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Yep the K1600GT is the "NEW" GT

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post #3 of 46 Old Jan 2nd, 2011, 4:23 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

I hope not, the K13 GT lighter weight (635lbs)is a big plus.

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post #4 of 46 Old Jan 2nd, 2011, 7:55 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by murray
I hope not, the K13 GT lighter weight (635lbs) is a big plus.
The K1300S weighs in at a svelte 560 lbs.

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post #5 of 46 Old Jan 2nd, 2011, 8:07 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

As much as it pains me to have to tell y'all ...
If you want to buy a 2011 K1300GT, Kawasaki makes a great substitute for thousands less. Oh, and $240 buys you the cruise control that you might be missing.

You're all very welcome.

- Joe
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post #6 of 46 Old Jan 3rd, 2011, 4:36 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13_ver2
As much as it pains me to have to tell y'all ...
If you want to buy a 2011 K1300GT, Kawasaki makes a great substitute for thousands less. Oh, and $240 buys you the cruise control that you might be missing.

You're all very welcome.
Now THAT is very funny that is right there!

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post #7 of 46 Old Jan 4th, 2011, 8:41 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Joe actually speaks the truth here. And at the same time, you can dump that money-guzzling 5-series and get a Kia instead. They're practically the same exact thing.

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post #8 of 46 Old Jan 5th, 2011, 8:52 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Joe actually speaks the truth here. And at the same time, you can dump that money-guzzling 5-series and get a Kia instead. They're practically the same exact thing.
Naw... The Kia is much more reliable.

- Joe
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post #9 of 46 Old Jan 5th, 2011, 8:58 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Well, Ken. My '86' Connie ran like a scalded cat and maintenance was cheap and infrequent.

The reason I moved to the LT was I needed a touring bike, and NOTHING rides like an LT. Now maintenance/cost of ownership, that's another topic and I'm not a 4% er. If I was in the GT market, I would definitely consider both the Connie 14 and the FJR. Don't know what I'd buy but would not be locked in on a Beemer.

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post #10 of 46 Old Jan 5th, 2011, 9:23 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Well Benny, I owned the LT, the GT, and the C14. All great bikes. But the more I ride the C14, the more I wonder what the pricetag of the GT buys you. Other than "my bike costs more than your bike" bragging rights.

- Joe
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post #11 of 46 Old Jan 5th, 2011, 9:30 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

or that cheapness in and of itself isn't a virtue, it's just cheap.

Ride fast. Take chances.

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post #12 of 46 Old Jan 5th, 2011, 9:42 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapod2t
or that cheapness in and of itself isn't a virtue, it's just cheap.
There's some truth in that. But let's not forgot that I've already owned the LT and GT. Sometimes a cheaper product is the better one. Or, if nothing else, equal.

- Joe
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post #13 of 46 Old Jan 5th, 2011, 7:38 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

I guess the one advantage of them discontinueing the K13GT is that if you ever wanted one there are lots of them on show room floors 20% to 30% cheaper than they were last year. At least up here in Canada, that makes the price pretty competitive with a Connie 14. With 5 years of the same model under their belt, you should be able to buy one with most of the problems worked out. I am thinking of buying a 2010 and waiting for 2 or 3 years to get a 1600GT. I hate being a lab rat and hopefully by then they will have any potential problems fixed. The K13GT is still a really incredible bike.
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post #14 of 46 Old Jan 6th, 2011, 2:05 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13_ver2
But the more I ride the C14, the more I wonder what the pricetag of the GT buys you.
If you really, truly can't tell any significant difference, then sticking with the "cheaper" option probably is your best bet.

I've ridden all the sport-touring "competitors", and chose the bike I wanted to buy for my own reasons, regardless of what anyone else might presume those reasons are.

If you can honestly say the same thing, then it's all good, isn't it?

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post #15 of 46 Old Jan 6th, 2011, 3:38 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13_ver2
There's some truth in that. But let's not forgot that I've already owned the LT and GT. Sometimes a cheaper product is the better one. Or, if nothing else, equal.
Hey Joe, Im curious which model GT you had and how you found it.

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post #16 of 46 Old Jan 6th, 2011, 8:16 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Back to Bob's question. Well my friend, it looks like the 1200LT and 1300GT, both bikes that you've owned, have gone the way of the dinosaur! I'm beginning to see a correlation here. So, when ya gon'a let some of them moths out of your wallet and order a new 1600?

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post #17 of 46 Old Jan 6th, 2011, 8:20 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadicool59
Hey Joe, Im curious which model GT you had and how you found it.
I was a part of the "Elite 600". In other words, I bought one of the newly released 2006 GTs when they shipped the first lot over. Loved the bike. Didn't like the final drive failing on me in Nevada. Sold it and bought a 2010 Connie.

- Joe
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post #18 of 46 Old Jan 6th, 2011, 10:20 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

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Naw... The Kia is much more reliable.
AT HALF the price, also! Who would have imagined that Hyundai would be the new Honda?

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post #19 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2011, 10:01 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13_ver2
There's some truth in that. But let's not forgot that I've already owned the LT and GT. Sometimes a cheaper product is the better one. Or, if nothing else, equal.
Well Iím a new K13GT owner and I got rid of my C14 for it. The C14 was rocket no doubt about it but it wasnít a comfortable touring bike for me. I previously had a ST1300 and a Road Guild before that; the Kawi was the fastest but the Harley was the most comfortable; the Honda was just heavy. I could not even put on 200 miles in a day on the Kawi but I could do over 850 in day on the Harley. I went with the BMW hoping it was as comfortable as the Harley but with the performance of the Kawi. The Kawi fit and finish (craftsmanship) was just horrible and the BMW is about 50lbs lighter and actually handles better. Is the BMW worth twice the cost? That remains to be seen.
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post #20 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2011, 11:00 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randog
.....The Kawi fit and finish (craftsmanship) was just horrible....
I hate to be the one to ask the STUPID questions, BUT, since I do it so well: WHY would you buy a MC with "horrible" fit and finish AND that is uncomfortable? S and M?

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post #21 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2011, 1:15 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randog
Well Iím a new K13GT owner and I got rid of my C14 for it. The C14 was rocket no doubt about it but it wasnít a comfortable touring bike for me. I previously had a ST1300 and a Road Guild before that; the Kawi was the fastest but the Harley was the most comfortable; the Honda was just heavy. I could not even put on 200 miles in a day on the Kawi but I could do over 850 in day on the Harley. I went with the BMW hoping it was as comfortable as the Harley but with the performance of the Kawi. The Kawi fit and finish (craftsmanship) was just horrible and the BMW is about 50lbs lighter and actually handles better. Is the BMW worth twice the cost? That remains to be seen.
I'm not going to argue with you. Sounds to me like you're a Harley guy and that's that. Anyone that can do 850 miles in one day on a Harley should certainly be able to do double that on any BMW or the C14. And the fit & finish on my 2010 C14 is on par with my two previous Beemers. Sounds to me like your K1300GT isn't going to make you very happy if you didn't like the C14. They are almost identical bikes, ergonomically speaking ... except the C14 has a better stock seat.

Good luck.

- Joe
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post #22 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2011, 3:32 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyBob
My '86' Connie ran like a scalded cat and maintenance was cheap and infrequent.
I bought an '02 Connie when I moved back to the states. Having just bought a house, a Beemer wasn't in the cards just then.

I rode the Connie for a year and it was a fine commuter bike, but not a lot of fun to ride "just because". As my wife and I were heading out one weekend we looked at the Connie and said "Let's take the car instead." The Connie was sold almost immediately and a "leftover" '02 LT took its place . . .

Ken
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'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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post #23 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2011, 3:35 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13_ver2
They are almost identical bikes, ergonomically speaking ... except the C14 has a better stock seat.
I guess I want more than simple ergonomics and horsepower.

My thoughts after riding a C14 was "Nice motor, but not much else here to speak of." It just didn't make me want one, that's all.

Again, if it works for you and fulfills your desires, that's great. We each have to make our own choices. That's why there are so many different bikes out there . . .

Ken
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'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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post #24 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2011, 6:10 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13_ver2
I'm not going to argue with you. Sounds to me like you're a Harley guy and that's that. Anyone that can do 850 miles in one day on a Harley should certainly be able to do double that on any BMW or the C14. And the fit & finish on my 2010 C14 is on par with my two previous Beemers. Sounds to me like your K1300GT isn't going to make you very happy if you didn't like the C14. They are almost identical bikes, ergonomically speaking ... except the C14 has a better stock seat.

Good luck.
Not really, I just didnít go out and spend 20k on a whim. Iím a tall guy and the leg room on the C14 was just too crunched for me, even with lowering pegs that dragged in every corner. The BMW is taller and with the adjustment in the seat Iím much happier. The C14 finish is crap and if you think different than you need to reevaluate your standards, even Ray Charles can see that crap. The C14 seat is also crap, this is why most guys including myself, got after market seats; the seat is almost the first thing to go on those bikes beside the worthless windshield. But the leg room, windshield and seat where not my problem with the C14, it was the vibration thru the handle bars; I suffered tendinitis because of those C14 handles. I donít know about your GT but mine has rubber isolators on the handle grips.

I always wanted a GT but wasnít able to afford it. When I got out of the ST, like you I the thought the C14 was a good compromise because I couldnít afford the BMW.

I thought this was a BMW forum? Why all the hostilities?
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post #25 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2011, 6:11 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I bought an '02 Connie when I moved back to the states. Having just bought a house, a Beemer wasn't in the cards just then.

I rode the Connie for a year and it was a fine commuter bike, but not a lot of fun to ride "just because". As my wife and I were heading out one weekend we looked at the Connie and said "Let's take the car instead." The Connie was sold almost immediately and a "leftover" '02 LT took its place . . .
Thats what I'm talking about!
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post #26 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2011, 6:39 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

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Originally Posted by Randog
I thought this was a BMW forum? Why all the hostilities?
No hostilities, really. Some folks just delight in going against the grain . . .

Ken
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post #27 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2011, 6:59 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randog
Not really, I just didnít go out and spend 20k on a whim. Iím a tall guy and the leg room on the C14 was just too crunched for me, even with lowering pegs that dragged in every corner. The BMW is taller and with the adjustment in the seat Iím much happier. The C14 finish is crap and if you think different than you need to reevaluate your standards, even Ray Charles can see that crap. The C14 seat is also crap, this is why most guys including myself, got after market seats; the seat is almost the first thing to go on those bikes beside the worthless windshield. But the leg room, windshield and seat where not my problem with the C14, it was the vibration thru the handle bars; I suffered tendinitis because of those C14 handles. I donít know about your GT but mine has rubber isolators on the handle grips.

I always wanted a GT but wasnít able to afford it. When I got out of the ST, like you I the thought the C14 was a good compromise because I couldnít afford the BMW.

I thought this was a BMW forum? Why all the hostilities?
No hostilities. The diverse discussion is what makes this forum interesting. There are lots of differing opinions which people feel free to express here without the fear of it degrading into a pissing match. Most of the folks on this site aren't so blinded by their loyalty to the blue propeller that they love everything about the brand. This is the best place on the planet to come if you want a balanced opinion of BMW's strengths and weaknesses. Most of the members of this community have views that are really worth listening to even if they don't necessarily mesh with yours. Joe likes his Connie and thinks it is an equal or better bike for the price than the GT. I think he is completely dillusional ...LOL. I have been on both and liked the GT enough to actually go out and buy one. Don't get put off by what can be taken as hostility. Some of the comments can be a little rough around the edges sometimes but they are not meant to be personal. I have never seen an online group that is more willing to help you out while asking anything in return.
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post #28 of 46 Old Jan 7th, 2011, 10:07 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronk1200lt
No hostilities. The diverse discussion is what makes this forum interesting. There are lots of differing opinions which people feel free to express here without the fear of it degrading into a pissing match. Most of the folks on this site aren't so blinded by their loyalty to the blue propeller that they love everything about the brand. This is the best place on the planet to come if you want a balanced opinion of BMW's strengths and weaknesses. Most of the members of this community have views that are really worth listening to even if they don't necessarily mesh with yours. Joe likes his Connie and thinks it is an equal or better bike for the price than the GT. I think he is completely dillusional ...LOL. I have been on both and liked the GT enough to actually go out and buy one. Don't get put off by what can be taken as hostility. Some of the comments can be a little rough around the edges sometimes but they are not meant to be personal. I have never seen an online group that is more willing to help you out while asking anything in return.
Thanks, I wasn't worried about it.
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post #29 of 46 Old Jan 8th, 2011, 10:14 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

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Originally Posted by meese
Some folks just delight in going against the grain . . .
That's what REAL riders do. Others ... just conform.

- Joe
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post #30 of 46 Old Jan 8th, 2011, 12:06 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

There's a subtle yet significant difference between forging your own path based on your own convictions and simply swimming upstream just because it happens to annoy lots of folks.

Then again, if I have to explain it to you . . .

Ken
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post #31 of 46 Old Jan 8th, 2011, 1:43 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
There's a subtle yet significant difference between forging your own path based on your own convictions and simply swimming upstream just because it happens to annoy lots of folks.

Then again, if I have to explain it to you . . .
I would add that the difference is not so subtle.....

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #32 of 46 Old Jan 8th, 2011, 3:01 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjacobson
I would add that the difference is not so subtle.....
Not if you understand it . . .

Ken
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'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #33 of 46 Old Jan 8th, 2011, 9:14 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Not if you understand it . . .
Let that be a lesson to me! I must be to stupid--again....

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #34 of 46 Old Jan 9th, 2011, 8:41 am
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Smile Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
The K1300S weighs in at a svelte 560 lbs.
NICE !
I know we will bulk it up a bit for LDR !

Pete Murray
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post #35 of 46 Old Mar 6th, 2011, 7:27 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Alas, poor Yorick, I knew him wellÖ Iíve had 2 LTís and changed to the GT in 2007, and thought it was the best overall riding bike Iíve ever owned. I rode it from the East Coast to the West Coast and all around the country on many occasions and enjoyed every second of it. Although I did have some major quality issues, final drive failure, suspension system failure, not to mention the endless gas gauge replacements. But I loved it anywayÖ
My disappointment in BMW was too great with the demise of the GT, and I now own a 2010 Harley Ultra Classic Limited for those long rides. Itís a surprisingly well balanced and well behaved machine that handles like a smaller bike for all that weight, and weíve become good friends.
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post #36 of 46 Old Mar 7th, 2011, 1:09 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

I'm a Harley rider to the core, having ridden them over 40 years, and agree a Harley Touring bike is very comfortable because of the riding position and the ability to shift your legs now and then. They are much under appreciated on this forum.

But . . . my K1200GT is the most fun and comfortable bike I've ever owned. Reminds me of the old days on my Husqvarna 400 Cross. It's just plain easy to ride. Light, extremely fast, smooth, great suspension (no ass puckering on the corners when you hit a large chuck hole). Electric seat and grips, adjustable suspension, adjustable wind screen, and, those bags. How easy can you get. Just pop them off and voila, they're suitcases.

I ride with a Connie guy. Out in the desert on a twisty long road, he can't catch me. At about 130 he runs out of throttle and wind protection. The GT is just getting going. Oh yeah, and cruise control. Why call it a touring bike without cruise control???

But, to each his own.

Ride fast. Take chances.

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post #37 of 46 Old Mar 7th, 2011, 3:12 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapod2t
I'm a Harley rider to the core, having ridden them over 40 years, and agree a Harley Touring bike is very comfortable because of the riding position and the ability to shift your legs now and then. They are much under appreciated on this forum.

But . . . my K1200GT is the most fun and comfortable bike I've ever owned. Reminds me of the old days on my Husqvarna 400 Cross. It's just plain easy to ride. Light, extremely fast, smooth, great suspension (no ass puckering on the corners when you hit a large chuck hole). Electric seat and grips, adjustable suspension, adjustable wind screen, and, those bags. How easy can you get. Just pop them off and voila, they're suitcases.

I ride with a Connie guy. Out in the desert on a twisty long road, he can't catch me. At about 130 he runs out of throttle and wind protection. The GT is just getting going. Oh yeah, and cruise control. Why call it a touring bike without cruise control???

But, to each his own.
It must be a 1000 Connie. The C-14 is way faster than that.

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post #38 of 46 Old Mar 7th, 2011, 11:10 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

BMW USA actually did a market survey I think three or four years ago and they asked BMW riders the question about what bike they would ride if a BMW wasn't an option. The largest number picked a Harley. I found that amazing considering how many Harley bashers there are in this crowd.
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post #39 of 46 Old Mar 8th, 2011, 7:24 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronk1200lt
BMW USA actually did a market survey I think three or four years ago and they asked BMW riders the question about what bike they would ride if a BMW wasn't an option. The largest number picked a Harley. I found that amazing considering how many Harley bashers there are in this crowd.
It isn't that amazing. An awful lot of BMW and Harley riders (and other European bikes) stick to those brands because of elitism. If you're riding a BMW because you feel superior to everyone on a Japanese bike, then you either go to another Euro bike or to a Harley. I think this is minority of riders, but a very vocal one.

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post #40 of 46 Old Mar 8th, 2011, 7:29 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronk1200lt
BMW USA actually did a market survey I think three or four years ago and they asked BMW riders the question about what bike they would ride if a BMW wasn't an option. The largest number picked a Harley. I found that amazing considering how many Harley bashers there are in this crowd.
I truly want to like Harleys and other air-cooled v-twins, but every time I ride one, I hate the vibration, especially when stopped. There are other issues, too (power, handling, etc.). I keep renting, riding friends' bikes, going for test rides, etc. and every time I get back on my K1200GT, it feels so much better than what I just rode.

Spoiled, I am.
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post #41 of 46 Old Mar 8th, 2011, 8:14 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffgunner
It isn't that amazing. An awful lot of BMW and Harley riders (and other European bikes) stick to those brands because of elitism.
I hadn't noticed.

That's OK. I still ride next to BMW riders ... even though I know they're looking down their noses at this lowly Kawasaki rider.

As far as Harley bashing ... I bash them all. It's just silly fun. And watching guys get their panties all in a bunch is just a riot. As if they designed and engineered the thing themselves, and you just made fun of their life's work. Gimme a break.

I love em all.

- Joe
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post #42 of 46 Old Mar 8th, 2011, 9:46 am
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13_ver2
I hadn't noticed.

That's OK. I still ride next to BMW riders ... even though I know they're looking down their noses at this lowly Kawasaki rider.

As far as Harley bashing ... I bash them all. It's just silly fun. And watching guys get their panties all in a bunch is just a riot. As if they designed and engineered the thing themselves, and you just made fun of their life's work. Gimme a break.

I love em all.
True. My brother and I (he's also on a wing) Took a long trip last summer over 24 states and 2 provinces. 2 incidents were interesting. At one stop we were next to a couple on their old K75. It was a pretty decent looking old bike and had obviously been kept up well - but the couple wouldn't give us the time of day. It was quite strange. Later on we came up behind them and were travelling much faster. They seemed to try to make it dificult to pass.

Another time we ran into 6 guys - all on R100s - out on a day trip. Great bunch of guys. All were happy to talk about their and our bikes as well as the great roads in the area (New Hampshire). They all had other bikes as well with a mix of European and Asian rides. Very cool group.

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post #43 of 46 Old Mar 8th, 2011, 12:09 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13_ver2
I still ride next to BMW riders ... even though I know they're looking down their noses at this lowly Kawasaki rider.
That's 'cause we're looking down so we can see you way back there in the mirror . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13_ver2
As if they designed and engineered the thing themselves, and you just made fun of their life's work.
It always cracks me up when folks say "Wow, nice bike", as if I'd built it myself instead of just handing some guy some cash for it.

Of course, that was the mostly stock LT. On the GT which I have basically completely reworked for long distance comfort and convenience I tend to get "Wow, can you possibly add any more stuff to that bike?" And my answer is usually "I'm working on it . . .

Ken
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'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #44 of 46 Old Mar 8th, 2011, 2:55 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13_ver2
....As far as Harley bashing ... I bash them all. It's just silly fun. And watching guys get their panties all in a bunch is just a riot. As if they designed and engineered the thing themselves, and you just made fun of their life's work. Gimme a break. ....
Yeah maybe after this depression is over we can ALL have a sense of humor.....

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Some really OLD friggin' White dude who couldn't have possibly known what he was talking about!) WARNING: Official HATE speech!
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post #45 of 46 Old Mar 9th, 2011, 10:12 am
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Talking Re: K13GT discontinued ???

So... what y'all sayin' is that the K13GT has been discontinued...?

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post #46 of 46 Old May 28th, 2011, 9:08 pm
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Re: K13GT discontinued ???

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So... what y'all sayin' is that the K13GT has been discontinued...?
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