A Small Issue with My GT - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 12:09 am Thread Starter
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A Small Issue with My GT

I had a little engine trouble with my GT on the way home from work tonight...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eH6F8bVi7g

David Taylor
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post #2 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 12:17 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Oh David, that is terrible! What a disgusting feeling you must have. Hopefully it gets correctly very quickly.

This sucks.... :-(

Hal
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post #3 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 2:59 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Yep, that sucks.

I wonder if it's another Slant/4 valve train disaster, or something else?

If you want something reliable, I can make you a great deal on an '07. Only 132K miles, too. I know it's reliable, because I've already broken and replaced all the weak bits . . .

Ken
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post #4 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 5:28 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Can't give you anything nice, can we? Brother Man, that stinks.

On His Ride,
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post #5 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 5:56 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Holy Shit Bat Man that really sucks. Do you want to use my LT? I need a new bike anyway.

Stevie Shreeve
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post #6 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 6:02 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Holy crap!!! I can't wait to hear what caused that.


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post #7 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 8:15 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Hole-E-Crap !!!!!

That's got to be some kind of big ass hole to puke oil out like that....

Good luck with your new engine.....

Note to self.. Keep your old beemers.. Don't buy a new one....


John

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post #8 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 9:24 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Holy Crap! Looks like the freaking BP gusher coming out of your bike. Got any pics yet of where it failed?

Darrel
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post #9 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 10:21 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Another Holy Crap here as well.

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post #10 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 11:15 am
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Exclamation Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Major bummer! I'll be interested to hear what happened.

Denny
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post #11 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 11:49 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Dang it! Really sad to hear that Dave -- but I'm glad you didn't discover this out in Winnemucca!

I'll be really interested to see what Chris at SJ BMW has to say about it....

Stephen Malm
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post #12 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 12:13 pm Thread Starter
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Yep, that sucks.

I wonder if it's another Slant/4 valve train disaster, or something else?

If you want something reliable, I can make you a great deal on an '07. Only 132K miles, too. I know it's reliable, because I've already broken and replaced all the weak bits . . .
I haven't heard of the valve train disasters, how do those present? This sounds (haven't opened the fairing) like a rod or something went through the side of the motor. Bike is at SJBMW and they will be looking at it today. I've also contact BMW Customer Relations to start working that side of the house as well (I have them on speed dial). I'll keep you posted.

David Taylor
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post #13 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 12:54 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Start here.

Although I agree that that much oil puking out is an indication of a much bigger problem much lower down.

But don't worry. The new K1600GT will be out soon, and it will have none of these problems. Honest.

Ken
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post #14 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 10:04 pm Thread Starter
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Well, no rod sticking through the cases. But a plug in the side of the cylinder head blew out and there are some loose chunks of metal, possibly cam lobes, you can see through the hole. So something catastrophic and apparently explosive occurred in the top of the motor. They'll be digging in deep to determine the extent of damage per the PUMA with BMW NA. I'll post more once we have some conclusive information and decisions on next steps.

David Taylor
San Jose, CA
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The shortest distance between two points is for people who don't ride!



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post #15 of 56 Old Aug 5th, 2010, 10:29 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

And it all your fault! Because if you would have used special snake oil no 1 that would have been take care of by nobody.

Last edited by andy; Aug 6th, 2010 at 2:37 pm. Reason: Typos galore. Thats what I get for typing on the phone
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post #16 of 56 Old Aug 6th, 2010, 9:57 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
and it all yhour fault! because if you wou.d have usec special snake oil no 1 that would hve been take card of by nobody.
That made me laugh!

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post #17 of 56 Old Aug 6th, 2010, 2:55 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
So something catastrophic and apparently explosive occurred in the top of the motor.
Aw hell. That's not good.

Might as well add yourself to the survey.

Ken
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post #18 of 56 Old Aug 6th, 2010, 6:23 pm Thread Starter
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Aw hell. That's not good.

Might as well add yourself to the survey.
Apparently I voted a while back when I had not blown up.

David Taylor
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post #19 of 56 Old Aug 6th, 2010, 6:58 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

I love my GT, but for all you guys that make fun of my Harleys, it just shows you, "Two tits or two wheels, either way, you've got problems."

Ride fast. Take chances.

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post #20 of 56 Old Aug 6th, 2010, 7:33 pm
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Talking Re: A Small Issue with My GT

This just sucks. It is becoming really hard to keep the faith.
Maybe we will need another poll for those that voted and need to change their vote.

-Brian Louw
Arroyo Grande, CA.

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post #21 of 56 Old Aug 6th, 2010, 7:56 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

I don't know, I love my new BMW and I love my Harleys, but my FatBoy used to inexplicably 'burp' (diagnostic term used by HD Stealership) out all her oil from the air breather every now and then. Loss of oil wasn't 'so' bad - the cleanup was a little worse - but then I had to replace the air filter too

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapod2t
I love my GT, but for all you guys that make fun of my Harleys, it just shows you, "Two tits or two wheels, either way, you've got problems."

Brad

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post #22 of 56 Old Aug 6th, 2010, 7:58 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
I had a little engine trouble with my GT on the way home from work tonight...
Dude - just cause you can redline in every gear, doesn't mean you should

Brad

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post #23 of 56 Old Aug 7th, 2010, 12:44 am Thread Starter
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyBrad08
Dude - just cause you can redline in every gear, doesn't mean you should
There's a redline??

David Taylor
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post #24 of 56 Old Aug 7th, 2010, 3:31 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTaylor
There's a redline??
Well, there goes your warranty claim.

Ken
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'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
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post #25 of 56 Old Aug 7th, 2010, 11:56 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

The rev limiter keeps you out of the red doesn't it ?

John

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post #26 of 56 Old Aug 7th, 2010, 12:07 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
The rev limiter keeps you out of the red doesn't it ?
I thought it was for keeping you under the speed limit. Until you shift out of first, that is . . .

Ken
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'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #27 of 56 Old Aug 12th, 2010, 10:05 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

So, David, what's the prognosis or have BMW legal told you to cease and desist?

-Brian Louw
Arroyo Grande, CA.

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post #28 of 56 Old Aug 12th, 2010, 2:32 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Or at "Burns Junction"

Another "Holy Crap"

Later Steve


Quote:
Originally Posted by SRM
Dang it! Really sad to hear that Dave -- but I'm glad you didn't discover this out in Winnemucca!

I'll be really interested to see what Chris at SJ BMW has to say about it....
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post #29 of 56 Old Aug 12th, 2010, 5:11 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevea2980
Or at "Burns Junction"

Another "Holy Crap"

Later Steve

Woah! Now that's one of those places you 'land' and you ask for directions only to be told -- 'you can't get there from here'......

Stephen Malm
'07 GT - Blue Tooth
'03 LT - Silver Bullet
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post #30 of 56 Old Aug 12th, 2010, 5:18 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Funny (if I can use that word in this thread) thing is I was sent the vid via email...It took me a second to figure out it was you David... Besides picking my jaw up off the floor when it "puked oil" there is nothing one can say!

Other than my condolences for your loss!!!!! I pray that a simular experience does not happen to Barbara!

The bright side: Your final drive is intact, right?

Hoss
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post #31 of 56 Old Aug 12th, 2010, 10:05 pm Thread Starter
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Brian - No orders to cease and desist from BMW NA. Free speech is still alive and well. I'm choosing not to post much of what's going on since I feel I do need to be sensitive to the overall situation as I work with them on a resolution. Me airing things out blow by blow here wouldn't do me or them any favors.

Hoss - Yes my final drive is intact. It was covered in oil, so was everything else back there including the tire, swingarm, mud flap, etc.

David Taylor
San Jose, CA
2010 R1200RT Polar Metallic
AMA, BMWMOA
Booze Brother #4

The shortest distance between two points is for people who don't ride!



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post #32 of 56 Old Aug 13th, 2010, 8:08 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

This ex-GT owner, now happy Concours14 owner will bite his tongue ... so to speak. (Love ya Dave)

Hey Dave, found a bike in your area you might want to take a look at. CLICK
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post #33 of 56 Old Aug 13th, 2010, 3:56 pm Thread Starter
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Yeah, Feelin' the love, Joe. Feelin' the love.

David Taylor
San Jose, CA
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AMA, BMWMOA
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The shortest distance between two points is for people who don't ride!



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post #34 of 56 Old Sep 25th, 2010, 2:21 am Thread Starter
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

So, I've worked with BMW NA and have solved the problem with my GT -



I picked it up today! It's a new 2010 R1200RT in Polar Metallic (love those color names). This is the DOHC motor which I've had the chance to try out via a demo bike for an extended period and I'm really impressed with it. It's a far cry from the powerplant in the first BMW I had, a 96 R1100RT, and in a very good way! Here's a link to a few more pictures of it if you're interested -

http://dtaylor95119.smugmug.com/Moto...21101673_KdeBZ

I'm guessing the next question I'll get is - So what happened to the GT's motor? A cam follower failed causing it to break and travel through the valve train, finally ending up wedged under a cam lobe where the 2 parts basically were grinding against each other, and we figure that sent chunks of metal throughout the engine. When this happened it caused one of the brass plugs in the cylinder head to blow out, which is where all the oil was pumped out of the motor. The combination of these events effectively ended the service life of that engine, as you can probably imagine. From what I've been able to determine from conversations and my own personal research, this was a completely random event and a fluke failure of this part. I've gotten more emails and PMs than I can count asking of this was one of the cam chain failures, and it wasn't; that aspect of the valve train was in great shape. So as far as I can tell this was a one-off freak occurrence, and just my bad luck that it happened to me.

While I enjoyed the GT and loved the power and handling of that bike, after having a failure like I did, and it being the second K bike that I had significant problems with, I felt it was time to move on to another model and motor platform. I will say the BMW NA as well as San Jose BMW really stepped up and were extremely supportive throughout this process; including working with me to find a way to replace the GT with the RT, and even authorizing a replacement motor for the GT and getting it from the factory in Germany to San Jose in 4 days!

I want to thank Doug Higham and Carol Pantua with BMW NA, and Chris Hodgsen, Tom Holdych, Pete Hunter, and the entire staff at San Jose BMW, for working with me over the last 6 weeks to investigate the issues with my bike and finding a workable solution to my concerns and needs. They all went above and beyond the call in supporting me as a customer.

David Taylor
San Jose, CA
2010 R1200RT Polar Metallic
AMA, BMWMOA
Booze Brother #4

The shortest distance between two points is for people who don't ride!



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post #35 of 56 Old Sep 25th, 2010, 3:14 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Hey, I thought I had dibs on your GT.

Nice RT though.

Cam follower, huh? First I've heard of one of those failing.

And good on San Jose BMW for stepping up and taking care of you, again. Maybe I oughta buy my next bike from them.

BTW, if they're not gonna use that spare motor, I could sure use it . . .

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #36 of 56 Old Sep 25th, 2010, 6:56 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Nice resolve, David.

And I think it is very commendable the way you handled the situation on this forum. Thank you! You saved everyone nearly two months of hand wringing worthless posts.

Of course, your answer to the cause of the engine failure does nothing for me; I don't know a cam follower from a dead head!

Pete Jessen
CCR 02, 03, 04, 08, 10
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post #37 of 56 Old Sep 25th, 2010, 8:40 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjessen
Nice resolve, David.

And I think it is very commendable the way you handled the situation on this forum. Thank you! You saved everyone nearly two months of hand wringing worthless posts.

Of course, your answer to the cause of the engine failure does nothing for me; I don't know a cam follower from a dead head!
Hey, Pete - good morning. Thought I'd show you a "cam follower aka tappet or aka bucket".

Click here and find the spring in the left quadrant of the pic. Above the spring is a shiney disk partially out of a hole. Above that disk (cam follower, tappet, or bucket) is the camshaft lobe that pushes down on the follower as the camshaft rotates. This up/down motion on the follower acts on the valve stem so that it opens/closes the valve in the engine cylinder, in lockstep with the engine piston's travel within the cylinder. (Man, I wish I hadn't said all this - made me dizzy!!! ) Anyway, hth.

And btw - for folks who don't know (105% of the membership!) - Pete is responsible for my avatar. Thanks Pete. (I tried to pass it forward, butt nobody wants it!! )

Oh, and hey David - congrats to a happy ending of your unfortunate experience on the GT. Glad you had all the good folks working with/for you. Staying with the brand speaks volumes too!! Enjoy the RT - beautiful bike!
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post #38 of 56 Old Sep 25th, 2010, 9:17 am
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Incredible looking bike. So now you will be a "R" head instead of a "K" head. I am curious if you have ever had a "R" bike before and what you think of it. I sure do like'em.

"BONES" <///><
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2002 K1200LTC--- Belle

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post #39 of 56 Old Sep 25th, 2010, 11:46 am
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Talking Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Thanks, Dick! I sort of knew about buckets and such, but couldn't place followers.

Just as a token of reciprocal knowledge enhancement, here is a dead head.

Pete Jessen
CCR 02, 03, 04, 08, 10
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post #40 of 56 Old Sep 25th, 2010, 11:46 am Thread Starter
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meese
Hey, I thought I had dibs on your GT.

Nice RT though.

Cam follower, huh? First I've heard of one of those failing.

And good on San Jose BMW for stepping up and taking care of you, again. Maybe I oughta buy my next bike from them.

BTW, if they're not gonna use that spare motor, I could sure use it . . .
Me, too. When we opened the motor and saw what was there about 4 of us at the shop just looked at it with a blank stare. Completely surprised with finding this as the root cause. I must say, even in that condition the motor would still pull 70 mph in 6th gear,which I think is damned impressive. As for the motor, it ended up going into the carcass of the GT which is on its way back to BMW NA. I don't think you would have wanted to write the check for it, though, not cheap.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pjessen
And I think it is very commendable the way you handled the situation on this forum. Thank you! You saved everyone nearly two months of hand wringing worthless posts.
Yes, that was somewhat by design. Since I was working with BMW NA and SJBMW to determine what to do and how to handle things it didn't make any sense to continually air things out in a public forum like this. No benefit to anyone, especially me and BMW.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Staying with the brand speaks volumes too!!
I sitll believe BMW makes some of the best touring bikes in the world, and the innovations they are making across the product line and with bikes like the S1000RR are very impressive. I've had quite a bit of time to think about my situation and what I would ride other than a BMW and the list is really, really short. Like maybe 1 or 2 other models from other brands. I believe the issues I've had with this and the previous K bike were both one-off situations, and just my bad luck that both occurred to me. But in the course of the last few years of my life (divorce, house, accidents, etc.) it fits karmically with my life's path, unfortunately.

Oh, and to the Universe - I'm Really, really sorry for whatever I did to you! Can I please have some good luck now, PLEASE???


Quote:
Originally Posted by ibbones
I am curious if you have ever had a "R" bike before and what you think of it
My first BMW was an R1100RT, and I've had an R1100GS and an 1150GSA. I've spent a couple hundred miles on this new DOHC motor and platform and I am really impressed with it so far. I'm going to try to get 6-800 miles on this one in the next week. I'll report more back later as I get things figured out.

David Taylor
San Jose, CA
2010 R1200RT Polar Metallic
AMA, BMWMOA
Booze Brother #4

The shortest distance between two points is for people who don't ride!



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post #41 of 56 Old Sep 25th, 2010, 2:08 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Actually, the Slant/4 GT engine is a bit different than the LT. The cams don't sit directly above the valves, but slightly off-center. When the cam rotates, the cam lobe presses against a follower arm (#9 in the pic below), and that follower arm is what presses against the top of the valve stem.

So yeah, breaking one of those is very unusual, and would cause a bit of trouble in there . . .



I did notice that this part had been updated/superseded by a newer cam follower part #. No indication as to exactly when or why, though.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #42 of 56 Old Sep 25th, 2010, 5:47 pm Thread Starter
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Yes, a little trouble indeed. I think the one that broke came from the #2 cylinder and wedged under the cam lobe for one of the #4 cylinder valves. I'm sure it did a few laps around the other components up there before it decided to take up residence where it did. It wasn't pretty, that's for sure.

David Taylor
San Jose, CA
2010 R1200RT Polar Metallic
AMA, BMWMOA
Booze Brother #4

The shortest distance between two points is for people who don't ride!



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post #43 of 56 Old Sep 25th, 2010, 10:21 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Congratulations, David. On the new bike and the way you and everyone else handled the situation.
Us KGT owners have had more than our share of 'bad' luck and maybe you have the solution. I love my bike, but it's about to go in for it's second fuel level sensor strip. Last Friday was the first time I have ever run out of gas on a bike. I usually watch the trip meter for mileage, but I didn't this last tankful and the fuel light didn't come on until it said 32 miles to go. It lasted another 5 miles before I ended up pushing to a gas station - about 100 yards. It has been playing up before this in a different way and I already had an appointment for it and the brake line recall.

Enjoy the new bike and see you in Marshal/Ft Bragg!!

-Brian Louw
Arroyo Grande, CA.

2013 K1600GT - Light Grey Metallic
2016 R1200GSA
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post #44 of 56 Old Sep 26th, 2010, 2:57 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Enjoyed yer new pix; hope you're having a great ride today. Not so hot as yesterday here in Santa Cruz County.
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post #45 of 56 Old Sep 26th, 2010, 4:02 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

David,

Glad everything was resolved, and you did handle yourself as a gentleman. We hear so many negative comments about BMW and their bikes on this forum it is nice to hear someone say something nice; even though you have about as much right at anyone to be negative. Secondly, I love your new bike. It was my first choice when I bought mine in June, but the dealer said he wouldn't be getting any more Polar Blue bikes in this year so I opted for the 13GT only after a substantial discount from list price. I love the motor in the GT, but I think the RT (especially the two screw head) is the better "overall" bike. I hope you have much better luck with the new RT than you did with the GT. Lord knows, you deserve it.

Thanks again for the update.

Greg

"Loud lives save pipes"

00 K1200LT (Emil) 94,840 trouble free miles. Gone, but not forgotten
02 R1150RT (Artie) 109,000 miles. Favorite bike. With me to the end.
10 K1300GT (The Phantom) 10,110 miles. Like flying a T-38 on 2 wheels. Gone.
12 K1600GTL (Johnny 5) 3,500. A great compromise between the LT and GT

A gaggle of Japanese bikes, then I woke up.
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post #46 of 56 Old Sep 26th, 2010, 8:19 pm Thread Starter
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by waycoa
Enjoyed yer new pix; hope you're having a great ride today. Not so hot as yesterday here in Santa Cruz County.
Just got back from riding all over Santa Cruz County. Way cooler than over here in San Jose.

David Taylor
San Jose, CA
2010 R1200RT Polar Metallic
AMA, BMWMOA
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The shortest distance between two points is for people who don't ride!



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post #47 of 56 Old Sep 26th, 2010, 9:01 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Let the farkeling begin.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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post #48 of 56 Old Sep 26th, 2010, 9:07 pm
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Sweet new ride! Enough said.

Brian
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CCR-R: 2018, Russellville
'13 K1600 GTL-P - "Eva"
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post #49 of 56 Old Sep 27th, 2010, 1:13 am Thread Starter
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

A few from today's 200 mile ride -

http://dtaylor95119.smugmug.com/phot...AlbumKey=HDkgd

So far I am impressed.

David Taylor
San Jose, CA
2010 R1200RT Polar Metallic
AMA, BMWMOA
Booze Brother #4

The shortest distance between two points is for people who don't ride!



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post #50 of 56 Old Sep 27th, 2010, 1:15 am Thread Starter
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Re: A Small Issue with My GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese

According to the BC it will go 260 miles at 80 mph in top gear starting with a full tank. That may exceed my bladder range without the fueling farkle.

David Taylor
San Jose, CA
2010 R1200RT Polar Metallic
AMA, BMWMOA
Booze Brother #4

The shortest distance between two points is for people who don't ride!



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