? Canister Problem on my GT. - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 27 Old Jun 14th, 2009, 5:16 pm Thread Starter
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Question ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Last weekend I road about 900 miles through the North Carolina mountains and back without any problems. Road the bike about 140 miles on Tuesday, no problems. Today I decide to ride over to Barber Motorsport Museum in Birmingham. Had about 1/2 tank this AM and topped off before I left. Filled it on the center stand to the bottom of the filler neck and off I go. No problems on the ride to Barber, but while eating lunch, it starts raining like crazy with thunder and lightening. We decided to come on back to Columbus before it got worse. I stopped just out side of Birmingham with just a little under 1/2 tank. When I opened the fuel cap I heard a faint whoosh, Hummmmmm. I filled it up and started home, again just to the bottom of the filler neck, on the center stand. 2-3 times at red lights the engine died while idling, but it was raining pretty hard, so I thought, hum ? water in the intake. After about 60-70 miles I noticed that the fuel gage was still full and the BC said I could go 285 miles on the fuel in the tank. WTF? I pull over and open the fuel cap (had to pull pretty hard on it) and there was a big whoosh with a spray of fuel straight up out of the filler neck. Damn!

I close the cap lightly so that it didn't lock and take off again. Initially I was reading about 3/4 tank after opening the cap. However, as I rode another 10 miles or so, I notice that the fuel gage indicated that the tank was filling up! Sos, I pull over and notice the cap is now locked and opened it again with another whoosh. Shit! This time I leave the cap propped open and ride the rest of the 120 miles back to Columbus. It's a good thing the rain let up or I probably would have gotten a good bit of water in the tank.

So, I'm thinking the canister is kaput , but don't know why. I have 4300 miles on it currently. I doubt that there is an easy fix for this. The tank is absolutely not venting any at all, zero, none, etc.

Does anyone have any recommendations? Looks like a trip back to BMW of Atlanta and I doubt they can fix this while I wait. Has anyone heard of a canister going bad on a GT or does this sound like something else? I don't want to do anything that will void the warranty.

Thanks.

Dick Wood
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post #2 of 27 Old Jun 14th, 2009, 8:12 pm
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Sounds like the cannister is done for doc. While under warranty, I would simply take it back to the dealer and let them deal with it. However, when mine comes out of warranty, I will be performing the Cannisterectomy!!!

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post #3 of 27 Old Jun 14th, 2009, 8:18 pm Thread Starter
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
Sounds like the cannister is done for doc. While under warranty, I would simply take it back to the dealer and let them deal with it. However, when mine comes out of warranty, I will be performing the Cannisterectomy!!!
That's what I'm thinking, Jack. I just have to figure out how and when I can get it to Atlanta. I'm attending a medical meeting at Stone Mountain this Thurs through Saturday, but will need a cage to get all my stuff up there. I'll call ATL BMW on Tuesday and see if they can get to it on Thurs or Friday. Maybe I can trailer it up there on Thursday and pick it up on Saturday, if they have a place to store my trailer.

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post #4 of 27 Old Jun 14th, 2009, 8:58 pm
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Doc,

It's possible that rain water got into the end of the vent tube that ends at the bottom of the motor (or rear wheel).

This has happened to me on another bike (non BMW) while riding in the rain. When you stop to open the fuel cap it makes a huge sucking whoosh sound.

I'm not familiar with the GT layout, but it could be that rain water worked its way up the vent tube.

Let us know what you find out.
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post #5 of 27 Old Jun 14th, 2009, 9:33 pm
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Has anyone done the canisterectomy yet w/write up?


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post #6 of 27 Old Jun 14th, 2009, 9:48 pm Thread Starter
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wardenross
Doc,

It's possible that rain water got into the end of the vent tube that ends at the bottom of the motor (or rear wheel).

This has happened to me on another bike (non BMW) while riding in the rain. When you stop to open the fuel cap it makes a huge sucking whoosh sound.

I'm not familiar with the GT layout, but it could be that rain water worked its way up the vent tube.

Let us know what you find out.
Thanks Warden, I will. I'm calling BMW ATL on Tuesday and will ask them what they think about that. If I let the bike sit for awhile, will the water evaporate and the vent system start working again?

Dick Wood
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post #7 of 27 Old Jun 14th, 2009, 9:51 pm
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

I've done it on mine and Ken Meese's bike. I didn't do a write up because it's just to dern easy.

Pull the gas tank, take loose the plate that holds the powerlet socket(s). You have to do this to have some room and it's only two screws. Cut the cannister loose, pull the hoses, put a connector from the hose from the tank to the one going to the ground, cap the middle teat on the airbox and you're done.

I did mine when I drilled out the filler neck on the gas tank to get more volume of gas in it. Of course, with the tank so full, you don't want the cannister inline.



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post #8 of 27 Old Jun 15th, 2009, 5:43 am Thread Starter
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Another question.

Is there a chance that the negative pressure damaged the tank? I don't think I let the negative pressure get high enough to collapse the tank. But when I opened it after realizing something was wrong, the vacuum was strong enough that I had to tug on the filler cap to open it.

Dick Wood
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post #9 of 27 Old Jun 15th, 2009, 12:35 pm
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

I have Harley friends that fill their bikes while sitting on it to get more fuel in the tank (why, I don't know???). When they do this, they fill the canister with fuel setting up a vapor lock situation that sounds very much like your problem.

Ride fast. Take chances.

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post #10 of 27 Old Jun 15th, 2009, 7:36 pm Thread Starter
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapod2t
I have Harley friends that fill their bikes while sitting on it to get more fuel in the tank (why, I don't know???). When they do this, they fill the canister with fuel setting up a vapor lock situation that sounds very much like your problem.
Boy it would be nice if that were the case, the fuel would evaporate, and everything would work porperly again. But with my luck, that won't happen. I'm going to talk to BMW ATL tomorrow and see what they think.

Dick Wood
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post #11 of 27 Old Jun 15th, 2009, 8:59 pm
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWDOC
If I let the bike sit for awhile, will the water evaporate and the vent system start working again?
Doc,

Yes, the water comes from the wheel spray.

I understand that the '99 LTs had this same problem while riding in the rain. On the later models, they relocated the end of the vent tube to the rear of the bike (behind the RH pannier).

I also heard that the tanks would implode when this happened too!
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post #12 of 27 Old Jun 15th, 2009, 9:35 pm
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wardenross
On the later models, they relocated the end of the vent tube to the rear of the bike (behind the RH pannier).
Actually, it's the opposite. Water spray was getting from the rear wheel up that vent tube, so they moved it away from the saddlebag and up near the center of the bike. Most of us simply pulled the canister entirely.

But I haven't heard of this case on the new GTs. I've ridden through hours and hours of torrential rain and haven't had that problem. My canister is gone now, but heavy rain wasn't a problem like on the early LTs.

Ken
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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #13 of 27 Old Jun 16th, 2009, 3:55 pm
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

More on this subject...


http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24731
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post #14 of 27 Old Jun 16th, 2009, 6:56 pm Thread Starter
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wardenross
Bill at BMW ATL said he had not heard of this problem (water in the canister) on the GT. He thinks that it's fuel in the canister. I don't know how that happened though, since I don't overfill it.

Dick Wood
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post #15 of 27 Old Jun 16th, 2009, 9:28 pm
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REWDOC
Bill at BMW ATL said....
Hey, Long Tall Bill is da man! Best friend a Beemer rider could have! I wouldn't argue with Bill!

However (and don't tell Bill!) I have had "another" brand bike that would suck rain water up the fuel cell venting tube. Or maybe I just imagined it!
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post #16 of 27 Old Jun 18th, 2009, 6:29 am Thread Starter
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wardenross
Hey, Long Tall Bill is da man! Best friend a Beemer rider could have! I wouldn't argue with Bill!

However (and don't tell Bill!) I have had "another" brand bike that would suck rain water up the fuel cell venting tube. Or maybe I just imagined it!
This vent problem is really weird. I don't see how it happened. Anyway, I sending the bike to ATL Tuesday for Bill to take a look at it. He said that he could not remove the canister, but that I could. I asked him if that would affect the warranty and he said no. So, since it only has 4300 miles on it and it's under warranty, I going to have him replace the canister, if that's the problem. If it happens again, that canister is history!

Dick Wood
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post #17 of 27 Old Jun 21st, 2009, 7:22 pm Thread Starter
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Question What to do now?

Today is the first chance I've had to ride my bike since last Sunday when the tank quit venting. It's been sitting in the garage with temps in the 90s all week and sometimes up to 99. Today I thought I'd ride it again to check it. When I started out is was registering just slightly above 1/3 tank and I rode about 28 miles at 70-80 mph. Everything seems to be fine. The tank dropped to 1/4 and the fuel computer dropped appropriately also. When I got home, I opened the filler cap without any problems and no hint of a vacuum.

I've made an appointment at BMW ATL for Tuesday and have a man coming to transport my bike up there for $140.00. What to do now. Should I cancel the transport, as it seems to be working fine now. Something definitely happened last Sunday, as the tank was not venting. I don't think it was gas in the canister, as I did not overfill the tank. As I previously stated it sat in pretty hard rain for about 30 min before I started back and I rode in rain for about 20 min before I first notice the vacuum in the tank.

Do you think I'm wasting my time and money sending it to ATL, as they are probably going to say it's working fine and they can't find anything wrong?

A problem I didn't mention previously, is that the high beam would flick off and on (on it's own) when I first started riding after it had been parked in the rain. That lasted about 30 minutes, then quit. This makes me think the light switch is not water proof, but I don't think it's worth $140.00 to have them check it out.

What would you do?

Thanks,

Dick Wood
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post #18 of 27 Old Jun 21st, 2009, 7:33 pm
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Re: What to do now?

Pull the cannister and ride it. See Grif's how-to post. Then, one of your days off, take a ride to ATL and let 'em trouble shoot the high beam stutter. My 0.18cent stimulus worth.
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post #19 of 27 Old Jun 21st, 2009, 7:33 pm
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Re: What to do now?

I suppose it all depends on your balance between a $140 tow and piece of mind.

It is highly likely that they will just look at it and say "Yep-everything is working fine." Or they may find something with the canister and possibly the light switch.

But it's your cash. If you're happy with how it's running now and you're not depending on the bike for a particular reason (like getting to work or getting fired) then maybe you can just keep riding it and watch it more closely.

Especially if they're also gonna charge you $140 to bring it back home afterwards . . .

Ken
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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #20 of 27 Old Jun 21st, 2009, 7:39 pm Thread Starter
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Re: What to do now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
I suppose it all depends on your balance between a $140 tow and piece of mind.

It is highly likely that they will just look at it and say "Yep-everything is working fine." Or they may find something with the canister and possibly the light switch.

But it's your cash. If you're happy with how it's running now and you're not depending on the bike for a particular reason (like getting to work or getting fired) then maybe you can just keep riding it and watch it more closely.

Especially if they're also gonna charge you $140 to bring it back home afterwards . . .
Thanks Ken,
I was planing to have my wife take me up on Saturday to pick it up. I just can't free up time to take it up there during the week. I'm thinking I'll cancel the appointment a ride it some to see what happens. If it happens again, I'll just try to pull the canister, if I can figure out how to get the tank off. I really don't have anyone around here to help. I guess if I can do it on the LT and can do it on the GT.

Dick Wood
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post #21 of 27 Old Jun 21st, 2009, 7:41 pm Thread Starter
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Re: What to do now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Pull the cannister and ride it. See Grif's how-to post. Then, one of your days off, take a ride to ATL and let 'em trouble shoot the high beam stutter. My 0.18cent stimulus worth.
Thanks Dick. That's probably what I'm going to end up doing.

Dick Wood
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post #22 of 27 Old Jun 21st, 2009, 8:32 pm
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Doc,

Just don't ride it in the rain!

Just kidding!

PS - I have a trailer if you ever get stuck or stranded. My cell is 478-501-6490. I only live about 1.5 hours from you all.
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post #23 of 27 Old Jun 24th, 2009, 11:16 am Thread Starter
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wardenross
Doc,

Just don't ride it in the rain!

Just kidding!

PS - I have a trailer if you ever get stuck or stranded. My cell is 478-501-6490. I only live about 1.5 hours from you all.
Thanks Warden,

When the tank wasn't venting, it ran fine as long as I kept the filler cap open. But, all that fuel splashing on my crotch and face was a PTA. Just kiddin'. Actually no fuel came out, but I was worried about water getting into the tank.

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post #24 of 27 Old Sep 20th, 2009, 9:55 am Thread Starter
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Re: Rain and loss of tank vent

Well, it happened again. Just before sending my GT back to Atlanta to fix the tank venting problem after riding in the rain in July, it fixed itself. I thought, it was probably just a fluke and cancelled the appointment.

Wrong! Week before last I took a 4 day, 1800 mile, trip up through E. TN, E KY, W WV, W VA and W NC. I got caught in a fairly good rain storm for 1.5 hours in E KY. I noticed that my fuel gauge started heading up towards full from 1/2 tank. I thought oh S%@#! Stopped and opened the filler cap with a loud whoosh. I had to ride with the filler cap open for the next three days, then it started venting again. The top of the tank and filler cap where dry every time I removed the tank bag. So, water cannot be getting in through the top of the tank. It has to be coming in from the vent tube hanging under the bike.

I have another appointment with BMW ATL on the 29th for them to see if they can figure out the problem. Weird!

Dick Wood
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post #25 of 27 Old Oct 11th, 2009, 9:27 pm Thread Starter
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Wink Re: I have a Potergeist in my tank!

Well, I picked up my GT from BMW of ATL yesterday. They were unable to find anything wrong with the vent system on my GT. I've ridden in heavy rain twice and both time the tank quit venting. After 3-4 days, it starts venting again. BMW ATL called BMW NA and were told that no one had ever reported this problem with a GT before. They recommended rerouting the venting tube and cutting it at an angle, which they did. So, I'll have to wait until the next rainy ride to see what happens.

Dick Wood
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post #26 of 27 Old Oct 12th, 2009, 10:23 am
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Jeez Dick, since following this thread I was hoping for a more definitive answer from the techs. At least they didn't give you the old line of "they all do that".

I'm gonna sound like Dick or Ken but my suggestion would be to get out there and ride it. Enjoy the bike without worry, and then report back after a spell to let us know how you like those new Z6 tires.

Regards!

David
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post #27 of 27 Old Oct 12th, 2009, 6:34 pm Thread Starter
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Re: ? Canister Problem on my GT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpancerz
Jeez Dick, since following this thread I was hoping for a more definitive answer from the techs. At least they didn't give you the old line of "they all do that".

I'm gonna sound like Dick or Ken but my suggestion would be to get out there and ride it. Enjoy the bike without worry, and then report back after a spell to let us know how you like those new Z6 tires.

Regards!

David
David:

I think that BMW ATL really did everything they could to try and solve the problem. Hopefully, rerouting the vent and angling the end of the tube will stop it.

It doesn't keep me from riding, it's just a PITA when it happens. I just crack the filler cap and keep on going.

I really like the Z6 Interacts, by the way. Haven't ridden much, but way better thant he BT020s.

Dick Wood
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