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post #1 of 39 Old Jan 12th, 2009, 2:31 pm Thread Starter
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Very VERY sick GT

So, get to the petrol station, and fill up.

Bike is a right pain to start, doing the "I don't want to" bit.

It starts, but sounds like a bag of nails, with the alternator waring showing.

Get halway home and have to push it the remaining 600 yrds

Odd thing - the ancilliary lights and systems kept coming switching on and off - like the Sat nav stays on.

Got in, out of kit, then pulled the fuses on the centech box controlling the autocom and LEDs

Manage to start it again, and boy, big time bag of nails, as if big end failure, or exhaust falling off, and again, alternator waring remaining on.

Bike is an 08, on the road end of march, 33,400 miles up - all services on schedule.

ideas?


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post #2 of 39 Old Jan 12th, 2009, 4:31 pm
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

I bet it's either the sprocket behind the clutch basket, or the cam chain tensioner.



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post #3 of 39 Old Jan 12th, 2009, 4:36 pm
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

I'll bet it's going to require tools. Can I help?

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post #4 of 39 Old Jan 12th, 2009, 4:42 pm
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

It's still under warranty.. Take it to the dealer...You've got a mess on your hands..

I hope they don't try to blame it on something you've done...

Good Luck

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post #5 of 39 Old Jan 12th, 2009, 4:46 pm
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Yep...I would have it towed to a dealer and let them deal with it. Sounds like it could be something in the alternator...maybe a bad bearing causing the armature to bang around. Glad it happened now...another 3k and you woulda' been in for a steep repair bill.

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post #6 of 39 Old Jan 12th, 2009, 6:51 pm
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Their is one w13K at the local dealer with a hole in the piston.....piston was actually hitting the spark plug Side note: this happened almost right after a valve adjust

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post #7 of 39 Old Jan 12th, 2009, 9:45 pm
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

But guys....why the alternator warning light and malfunctions of electrical components???

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post #8 of 39 Old Jan 12th, 2009, 10:23 pm
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
But guys....why the alternator warning light and malfunctions of electrical components???
Hi, Rev. I know, I know this be right up your alley... It's possessed! Yup, Got that heebie jeebie goin' on right in there.

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post #9 of 39 Old Jan 12th, 2009, 11:02 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen

I hope they don't try to blame it on something you've done...

You mean - like - ride it?
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post #10 of 39 Old Jan 12th, 2009, 11:03 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by cccpastorjack
Glad it happened now...another 3k and you woulda' been in for a steep repair bill.

UK is two year unlimited meilage warranty - that's why I buy new.

Bike will be on year at 27 March
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post #11 of 39 Old Jan 13th, 2009, 7:59 pm
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Be sure and remove all "non-BMW" approved electrical and mechanical farkles....better chance of collecting warranty.

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post #12 of 39 Old Jan 14th, 2009, 1:30 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Here's the update so far:
Cam chain tensioner has managed to fail catastrophically, and allowed the cam chain to jump a tooth.

This appears to have resulted ina number of pistons (probably a round number, say, 4) meeting a number of valves (probably a round number, say 16).

This should be confirmed when the hear comes off tomorrow.

That would look like 4 pistons, barrels, valves, head, possibly conrods, and all asscoiated bearings, or maybe a short engine.

Good news - clutch after 34,500 miles was looking very good.

I did ask if they might only have 1300 engines as 1200 ceased production back in June/July, but it seems there are still some lying around, or they would make one.

As for the computer/electrics, it looks like the generator has failed in some way as well, and maybe spiked the ecu - so fixing the obvious broken, then flashing the computer seems the way forward, but its all down to BMW. The bike hasn't managed to get to one year from the factory let alone one year to me.

At least with a cold snap coming and more snow/ice threatened, I won't mind being foced to use the hire car that is the replacement from BMW assist for the bike
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post #13 of 39 Old Jan 14th, 2009, 1:44 pm
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall
Here's the update so far:
Cam chain tensioner has managed to fail catastrophically, and allowed the cam chain to jump a tooth.

This appears to have resulted ina number of pistons (probably a round number, say, 4) meeting a number of valves (probably a round number, say 16).

This should be confirmed when the hear comes off tomorrow.

That would look like 4 pistons, barrels, valves, head, possibly conrods, and all asscoiated bearings, or maybe a short engine.

Good news - clutch after 34,500 miles was looking very good.

I did ask if they might only have 1300 engines as 1200 ceased production back in June/July, but it seems there are still some lying around, or they would make one.

As for the computer/electrics, it looks like the generator has failed in some way as well, and maybe spiked the ecu - so fixing the obvious broken, then flashing the computer seems the way forward, but its all down to BMW. The bike hasn't managed to get to one year from the factory let alone one year to me.

At least with a cold snap coming and more snow/ice threatened, I won't mind being foced to use the hire car that is the replacement from BMW assist for the bike
Thanks very much for sharing this situation with us. Please keep us informed. I am planning to acquire the new 1300.....I do miss my GT.

Rob Nelson

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post #14 of 39 Old Jan 14th, 2009, 5:38 pm
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Niall, did your GT have the new type cam chain tensioner?

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post #15 of 39 Old Jan 15th, 2009, 8:12 am
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall
Here's the update so far:
Cam chain tensioner has managed to fail catastrophically, and allowed the cam chain to jump a tooth.

This appears to have resulted ina number of pistons (probably a round number, say, 4) meeting a number of valves (probably a round number, say 16).

This should be confirmed when the hear comes off tomorrow.

That would look like 4 pistons, barrels, valves, head, possibly conrods, and all asscoiated bearings, or maybe a short engine.

Good news - clutch after 34,500 miles was looking very good.

I did ask if they might only have 1300 engines as 1200 ceased production back in June/July, but it seems there are still some lying around, or they would make one.

As for the computer/electrics, it looks like the generator has failed in some way as well, and maybe spiked the ecu - so fixing the obvious broken, then flashing the computer seems the way forward, but its all down to BMW. The bike hasn't managed to get to one year from the factory let alone one year to me.

At least with a cold snap coming and more snow/ice threatened, I won't mind being foced to use the hire car that is the replacement from BMW assist for the bike
LOL! It could be a piston or two, "probably a round number, say, 4"..... Good one!
Damn though, that sucks. That's a really nasty failure to have on such a new bike, you'd think there would be a safeguard built in to prevent that.

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post #16 of 39 Old Jan 15th, 2009, 9:19 am
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

My post from the 12th:

"I bet it's either the sprocket behind the clutch basket, or the cam chain tensioner."

Man, sorry I almost nailed that one.



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post #17 of 39 Old Jan 15th, 2009, 2:03 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by ®win
Niall, did your GT have the new type cam chain tensioner?

Built week commencing 11th Feb 2008, so yes, very much so.

What is confusing is the very sudden, no warning failure.
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post #18 of 39 Old Jan 15th, 2009, 2:07 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1
That's a really nasty failure to have on such a new bike, you'd think there would be a safeguard built in to prevent that.
There is - don't stop!

Quote from the dealer, now the head is off:
"the valves kissed the pistons"

Its in the hands of BMW now on whether it'll be a fix, or a short engine. Common sense would suggest the short engine for a cheaper solution, but I'm not aware of the decision as I write.

Quite what's happened to the computer and the alternator are also puzzling - because the battery was flat when the bike got in, which suggests there was an circuit leak, despite me pulling fuses out of the centech.

Can't see how monitoring the accessory socket would flatten the battery - what else does/could the computer switch on without the iginition on?
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post #19 of 39 Old Jan 15th, 2009, 2:10 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
Man, sorry I almost nailed that one.

Ah - nails, don't talk to me about that.

My neigbour is having building works done and the builders just will not clean up after them, so nails all over the place, and I have a slow puncture in the rear tyre to boot, and my near neighbour across the road has two punctures.

Can we prove it though? No.

Oh - and if you hadn't guessed, my next door neighbour is off my christmas card list
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post #20 of 39 Old Jan 15th, 2009, 2:49 pm
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Now wouldn't it just suck if some of those nails happened to find their way into the builder's tires? Imagine the poor guys leaving work after a hard day and finding a mile or so later that all four tires had punctures . . .

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post #21 of 39 Old Jan 15th, 2009, 3:08 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Actually, after having an LT that suffered from every failure available - gear change falling off, welded starter motor relay, crown wheel bearing, gear box oil seal etc - its quite nice having so few issues.

I was more pissed off when the centre stand snapped
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post #22 of 39 Old Jan 15th, 2009, 4:52 pm
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall
Actually, after having an LT that suffered from every failure available - gear change falling off, welded starter motor relay, crown wheel bearing, gear box oil seal etc - its quite nice having so few issues.
Yeah, what's a short block now and again compared to how much fun this bike is to ride.

Might want to have them check that center stand again while they're poking around. Mine has already failed twice . . .

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post #23 of 39 Old Jan 20th, 2009, 1:39 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

OK - brief update - £5,000 of parts on order, including a short engine.

I should have a break down tomorrow.

Parts are coming from Germany - no surprise there then!
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post #24 of 39 Old Jan 20th, 2009, 2:52 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall
OK - brief update - £5,000 of parts on order, including a short engine.

I should have a break down tomorrow.

Parts are coming from Germany - no surprise there then!
FYI, some of the new smaller BMW m/c engines are built in ASIA!

World keeps shrinking....

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2006 K1200GT [now lives in Wisconsin]
Grey Goose
2002 K1200LTC [now lives in Georgia]
Toscana Temptress

More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #25 of 39 Old Jan 20th, 2009, 5:39 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by fas
FYI, some of the new smaller BMW m/c engines are built in ASIA!

World keeps shrinking....

Did you know - most japanese bikes are built there too!

Shocking, isn't it...
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post #26 of 39 Old Jan 20th, 2009, 6:02 pm
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall
Did you know - most japanese bikes are built there too!

Shocking, isn't it...

BMW small engines are Taiwan....not Japan....

Rob Nelson

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2006 K1200GT [now lives in Wisconsin]
Grey Goose
2002 K1200LTC [now lives in Georgia]
Toscana Temptress

More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #27 of 39 Old Jan 21st, 2009, 6:25 am Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

So:
Short engine
All valves
Exhaust cam
Cam chain and all ancilliary parts
Generator and parts
Clutch housing (?)

Seems for whatever reason, the generator "paddle" (?) was breaking down and finally died. Why the cam chain died - who knows. It shows no resemblance to the older cam chain issues, especially as those were oil draining over night - and this was a fuel stop.

It would look like the generator has been failing over a length of time - I've been complaining about the erratic charging since day 1, and my Kissan monitor showed I'd switch from 20+ amps to 1 or 2 for no apparent reason.

The ECU/Computer shows signs of just suffering from low volts in the battery, so we'll see.

Parts should arrive from Germany by mid-week, and then around 3 days to fit out - and then see if the 'puter is scrambled.

It seems the low voltgage meant the computer had the accessory socket and Navigator circuits live, and that seems to have killed off the battery overnight.

I'll end up with a 0 miles engine, not needing the 36K service, but an oil/filter after 600 miles and then back to normal 6k servicing. That means its 18,000 miles before I have to do a valve check, so that'll save me some money.

The clutch itself is in very good condition with little signs of wear so I'm told, so I'm hoping for some longevity there especially as I same 82,000 on the LT before it started to fail.

Now - failure of the cam chain - nothing apparent. Techie will do some more investigations at BMW's behest before it goes back

Niall
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post #28 of 39 Old Jan 21st, 2009, 6:41 am Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by grifscoots
My post from the 12th:

"I bet it's either the sprocket behind the clutch basket, or the cam chain tensioner."

Man, sorry I almost nailed that one.

both!
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post #29 of 39 Old Mar 13th, 2009, 11:27 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Remember my sick GT? Well it still don't have it back yet - because of dealer screw-ups.

BMW GB are involved and have been for some time now as there were TWO K12's at my dealer waiting to be repaired, because the dealer hadn't ordered the parts.

The other one, a K12R Sport, was completed just over a week ago having taken just over three and a half months, and mine is now waiting for MORE parts from Germany.

Here's the email from the dealer:
"Hi Niall I have spoke to Howard today so he is up to speed with the situation on your K1200GT

The situation at the moment is that the bike is running however we have a concern about the generator due to the nature of the failure and when running the bike to operating temp the generator seems to "kick"

So we have decided to renew the drive on the motor side, Evan though when we inspected it, it looked in good order, this should climate the problem."



Howard is a tech at BMW GB who I have known for years (over 10) and I flagged with him that the bike was still there at the beginning of the week.

I'm not sure how you climate a problem though...

As they KNEW all the issues from the start, my patience is now wearing thin
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post #30 of 39 Old Mar 14th, 2009, 6:34 am
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

I assume they're going to add 3 or 4 month to your warranty to recoup what you've lost while it's in the dealers?

Name and shame, who is it? Vines? Bahnstormer?

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post #31 of 39 Old Mar 14th, 2009, 7:20 am Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by slparry
I assume they're going to add 3 or 4 month to your warranty to recoup what you've lost while it's in the dealers?

Name and shame, who is it? Vines? Bahnstormer?
No - they won't add time on, but that's a good one - I'll put it to BMW

As for naming and shaming - not until I get the bike back!
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post #32 of 39 Old Mar 14th, 2009, 10:56 am
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Wink Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by fas
BMW small engines are Taiwan....not Japan....

Taiwan is no longer in Asia?

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post #33 of 39 Old Mar 14th, 2009, 2:33 pm
 
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Can anyone list the build date, or vin number associated with the new cam chain tensioner, and sprocket?
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post #34 of 39 Old Mar 14th, 2009, 8:19 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northsquad
Can anyone list the build date, or vin number associated with the new cam chain tensioner, and sprocket?
To my knowledge, its 08 build year onwards, which was around Sept 07.

The build year, as I'm sure you know, is Sept to Jul, with a break in August
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post #35 of 39 Old Mar 14th, 2009, 8:44 pm
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

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Originally Posted by Niall
Actually, after having an LT that suffered from every failure available - gear change falling off, welded starter motor relay, crown wheel bearing, gear box oil seal etc - its quite nice having so few issues.
56,000 miles on my FJR and one of the little push-pin connectors on the dash failed. Damn thing is going to nickle and dime (ok, $1.50) me to death........) On the otherhand, my '05 LT has been pretty good. 54,000 miles and two warranty issues: rear shaft seal, rear brake rotor replaced due to too much float. Now it is going off to a new home in Buffalo, NY.

Just old, clutchless and clueless
Russ Locke
Lakehills, Texas
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post #36 of 39 Old Mar 15th, 2009, 5:20 pm
 
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

Thanks Niall, back to your problem, just curious did you ever consider, or discuss with your dealer a new bike? After all when a cowboys horse was hurt that bad he shot it so it would not suffer. Maybe it's time for a new horse.
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post #37 of 39 Old Mar 15th, 2009, 6:12 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

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Originally Posted by Northsquad
Thanks Niall, back to your problem, just curious did you ever consider, or discuss with your dealer a new bike? After all when a cowboys horse was hurt that bad he shot it so it would not suffer. Maybe it's time for a new horse.

BMW won't go for that - and the dealer would prevaricate and here in the UK, its no where as easy as you for getting new.

BMW were very good - authorising the engine. Its the dealer that's screwed up, and now is having BMW GB shouting at them.

If I receive no nice words on Monday, Tuesday is emails to Motorcycle manager of BMW GB, and BMW finance.

This will motivaye them rather more considerably, as I'm the second customer to have BMW GB shout at them in as many weeks
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post #38 of 39 Old Mar 17th, 2009, 3:44 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

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Originally Posted by slparry
I assume they're going to add 3 or 4 month to your warranty to recoup what you've lost while it's in the dealers?

Name and shame, who is it? Vines? Bahnstormer?

My bike came back today!

But with an empty tank.

South London Motorcycles will be filling my bike up on Saturday when I drop in. After all, I'd only ridden 400 yards on a brimmed tank.

So now you know, it was SLM that screwed up the parts ordering, who screwed around two customers with K's and as I was visitng there every 6 weeks, they have well and truly upset their best "service" customer.
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post #39 of 39 Old Mar 18th, 2009, 5:05 am
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Re: Very VERY sick GT

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Originally Posted by Niall
My bike came back today!

But with an empty tank.

South London Motorcycles will be filling my bike up on Saturday when I drop in. After all, I'd only ridden 400 yards on a brimmed tank.

So now you know, it was SLM that screwed up the parts ordering, who screwed around two customers with K's and as I was visitng there every 6 weeks, they have well and truly upset their best "service" customer.
Glad to hear you have the K back, just in time for the nice weather SLM .. one to avoid

My dealer is Williams Manchester and I've no complaints with their customer service levels so far as they've been very helpful

--
Steve Parry
Current fleet is
14 BMW R1200RT LE
07 BMW K1200GT SE
03 BMW R1100S BoxerCup
14 BMW F800GS
87 BMW R80RS
... oh and the 330Ci for suit days
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