Can I Get the Board's Honest Input? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 25 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 6:11 pm Thread Starter
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Angry Can I Get the Board's Honest Input?

I'm just returned from my 12,000 mile service at my dealership, and I'm sitting here still steamed.

Here is my question:

Is the 7.0 Software install:

(1) An upgrade/enhancement, for which the customer should pay as he/she would for any other farkle; OR
(2) A fix, which should be covered by BMW under warranty?

If the position I took at the dealership was flawed, I'd like to know that, because I consider myself an ethical individual.

BTW, thanks to the folks who have alerted us that when initially hooked up, the diagnostic print-out will yield a 'no upgrades necessary' even if you do not have 7.0, and needs to be over-ridden.

The Touring Professor

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post #2 of 25 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 6:22 pm
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Angry My Thoughts

Though I do not own a GT, i would consider it "Warranty " parts.
Reason: BMW decided the upgrade was needed, the vehicle is in for scheduled maintainance within the warranty period, "upgraded parts" whether a "Hard Part" ( swing arm etc.)or "software" should be a warranty item, not an "expendable" maintainance item such as oil, tires, spark plugs , etc.

ed early
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post #3 of 25 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 7:04 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringProf
Here is my question:

Is the 7.0 Software install:

(1) An upgrade/enhancement, for which the customer should pay as he/she would for any other farkle; OR
(2) A fix, which should be covered by BMW under warranty?
Here's a few clips from ElJeffe's post on the 7.0 Software:



__

clears the "intermittent errors in the gear indicator" or "incorrect gear readings in the instrument cluster" symptoms.

clears the "loss in power output" and/or the “throttle valve not reaching its fully open position”. This was due to the “throttle valve stop” not returning to its correct “zero” position when the ignition is switched “off”. The new software corrects this symptom through modification of the initialization of the “throttle valve stop”.

clears the "starting problem at low ambient temperatures" and/or "engine is starved until it cuts out" symptoms.

clears the "lack of power at high altitude" symptom.

rectifies the following issues:
  • on-board socket and/or navigator switch off intermittently.
  • on-board socket and navigator switch off briefly when ignition is switched “On".
rectifies the following issue:
  • horn fails when activated continuously or when pressed briefly several times.
__

Sounds like a fix to me. Notice there are no problems though, only symptoms and issues.....

Dave Hoogerland

'08 Triumph Tiger 1050 ABS
'02 K1200LTC "The Silver Snoopy" (gone but not forgotten)
'08 Can-Am Spyder "???"

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post #4 of 25 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 7:49 pm
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I guess it all depends on your relationship with your dealer. When BMW isn't reimbursing the dealer for the time to do the update, the dealer (and you) are S.O.L. unless the dealer is willing to do the work for free.


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post #5 of 25 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 9:01 pm Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
I guess it all depends on your relationship with your dealer. When BMW isn't reimbursing the dealer for the time to do the update, the dealer (and you) are S.O.L. unless the dealer is willing to do the work for free.
Do we know if BMW is paying the dealer to do this during the scheduled maintenance (6 or 12000) activity? If not, then I'm trying to figure out what the possible justification would be to determine that I (the customer) should have to pay to have those 'issues' rectified (particularly the high altitude performance issue, when I live in Denver - the Mile High city), or whether it isn't the dealer who is SOL. Why would either of us have to be SOL, anyway?

The Touring Professor

2012 Victory Cross Country Tour
2007 Honda Gold Wing
2004 Honda Rune
1999 H-D Dyna-Glide Conv.
1996 Porsche 993 Turbo
1991 Acura NSX

Gone But Not Forgotten:

2006 K1200GT
2005 Triumph Rocket
2001 K1200LT
2002 K1200LT
2003 Hayabusa
2002 1800 VTX
1999 HD Sportster
1988 HD Softail Custom
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post #6 of 25 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 9:06 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringProf
I'm just returned from my 12,000 mile service at my dealership, and I'm sitting here still steamed.

Here is my question:

Is the 7.0 Software install:

(1) An upgrade/enhancement, for which the customer should pay as he/she would for any other farkle; OR
(2) A fix, which should be covered by BMW under warranty?

If the position I took at the dealership was flawed, I'd like to know that, because I consider myself an ethical individual.

BTW, thanks to the folks who have alerted us that when initially hooked up, the diagnostic print-out will yield a 'no upgrades necessary' even if you do not have 7.0, and needs to be over-ridden.
I don't know which label I'd put on it, but if I were in the dealer's position and it were a bike I'd sold, I'd do the upgrade for free within the first year, whether BMW paid me or not, in the interest of good customer relations.

Looking at it from "my" viewpoint, I never even considered paying for it. If the dealer had asked me to, I'd have paid, but it would have forever altered the relationship between us. The dealer would have to be crazy to risk that, in my opinion.

Compared to the demo model I rode this spring at Daytona bike week, my GT didn't seem to have much of a low speed throttle issue, but enough that I'd have been hesitant to recommend one to any of my friends. Since the upgrade, my GT has become the powerful, but civilized sport tourer that I expected when I paid my deposit clear back last December. AND, I'm not bashful about bragging it up to my riding friends now. For an hours service labor, my dealer has purchased good word of mouth endorsement for at least the next couple of years, or until the new slant four LT is available! As a businessman myself, I'd consider that priceless!

Ruben

2012 K1600 GTL
2007 R1200GS Adventure
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post #7 of 25 Old Sep 8th, 2006, 11:41 pm
 
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IMHO, I think the dealer should offer these updates for FREE, along with any other purchase. Period! Buy a T-Shirt? And the update is free. 12K service? Free update.
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post #8 of 25 Old Sep 9th, 2006, 12:18 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringProf
Do we know if BMW is paying the dealer to do this during the scheduled maintenance (6 or 12000) activity? If not, then I'm trying to figure out what the possible justification would be to determine that I (the customer) should have to pay to have those 'issues' rectified (particularly the high altitude performance issue, when I live in Denver - the Mile High city), or whether it isn't the dealer who is SOL. Why would either of us have to be SOL, anyway?
As far as I know, the dealers are NOT being reimbursed for loading 7.0. The bulletin that I have seen shows no FRUs to charge back as warranty work. The reason for doing it at the 6K/12K maint interval is that your bike will be in the shop for the 40-50 minutes it takes to load the update and could be done without charging you extra for it.

I've got 11K on my GT now, and haven't experienced anything that would make me want to run down and get the update. So I will wait for the 12K.


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post #9 of 25 Old Sep 9th, 2006, 12:26 am
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
I've got 11K on my GT now...
I'm catching you, Texas Boy!
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post #10 of 25 Old Sep 9th, 2006, 3:20 am
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Enjoy your head start while you can.

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post #11 of 25 Old Sep 9th, 2006, 9:27 am
 
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Originally Posted by meese
Enjoy your head start while you can.
Why? You might actually go to CCR next year since it's close enough? Or is it still "2Far2CCR"?!
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post #12 of 25 Old Sep 9th, 2006, 10:22 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
Here's a few clips from ElJeffe's post on the 7.0 Software:



__

clears the "intermittent errors in the gear indicator" or "incorrect gear readings in the instrument cluster" symptoms.

clears the "loss in power output" and/or the “throttle valve not reaching its fully open position”. This was due to the “throttle valve stop” not returning to its correct “zero” position when the ignition is switched “off”. The new software corrects this symptom through modification of the initialization of the “throttle valve stop”.

clears the "starting problem at low ambient temperatures" and/or "engine is starved until it cuts out" symptoms.

clears the "lack of power at high altitude" symptom.

rectifies the following issues:
  • on-board socket and/or navigator switch off intermittently.
  • on-board socket and navigator switch off briefly when ignition is switched “On".
rectifies the following issue:
  • horn fails when activated continuously or when pressed briefly several times.
__

Sounds like a fix to me. Notice there are no problems though, only symptoms and issues.....
QUESTION,
How can you tell if the 7.0 Software is installed. Have a 06 K1200LT
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post #13 of 25 Old Sep 9th, 2006, 10:25 am
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The new software does not apply to the flying brick, oilheads, or airheads. Only the new slant 4 (K1200S, K1200R, and next-gen K1200GT) and hexhead bikes (R1200GS, R1200ST, R1200RT, R1200R, R1200S) with the new ECU.


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post #14 of 25 Old Sep 9th, 2006, 1:07 pm
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My personal experience with software updates is not specific to motorcycles but I have a general comment.

I have worked in the semiconductor industry for many years and have dealt with almost constant software updates on many different pieces of equipment.

Most ethical manufacturers only charge for software that improves equipment performance-not for those that fix known problems and then only for those that require some type of hardware upgrade to support the new software.

It would seem that the dealer would bite the bullet and do the upgrade at no cost if it was done in conjunction with some other paid service. Having the upgrade done by itself would make it a little less clear in my opinion.

It doesn't sound like this particular dealer is very committed to customer satisfaction.

My $.02.

Res ipsa loquitur, sed quid in infernos dicet?

Alan Stuber
2003 K1200 LTC Titan Silver
Austin, Texas



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post #15 of 25 Old Sep 13th, 2006, 10:21 am
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Touring Professor,

I live in the foothills outside of Boulder and currently am riding a Honda ST1300. I am seriously considering ordering the '07 GT. I would very much like to know which dealership you are dealing with so I can avoid buying from them.

If you are uncomfortable posting a reply, I would appreciate it if you could send me an email privately. I try to vote with my dollars and do not want to support the arrogance that you have described.

Thanks,

David
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post #16 of 25 Old Sep 13th, 2006, 11:47 am
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If I had paid $20,000 for a bike and was experiencing problems because some computer programmer screwed things up then I would expect them to be rectified under warranty. Even if it was the only thing I needed done to the bike and wasn't purchasing anything else at the time.

How much technician time does it actually take? It may take an hour to load the software but I'm assuming that the technician doesn't actually need to stand there and watch it.

Kevin

1999 K1200LT, patiently waiting for a new model.
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post #17 of 25 Old Sep 13th, 2006, 3:06 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevincook
How much technician time does it actually take? It may take an hour to load the software but I'm assuming that the technician doesn't actually need to stand there and watch it.
Kevin
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post #18 of 25 Old Sep 13th, 2006, 7:43 pm
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Cool ECU Tune Ups For New Bikes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringProf
I'm just returned from my 12,000 mile service at my dealership, and I'm sitting here still steamed.

Here is my question:

Is the 7.0 Software install:

(1) An upgrade/enhancement, for which the customer should pay as he/she would for any other farkle; OR
(2) A fix, which should be covered by BMW under warranty?

.
Prof,
Should be free, IMNSHO. I'll drop by me dealer and see what they say. I'm up to 3,000 miles now. Road home in a rain storm today and I must say this GT is amazing.

Rob Nelson

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2006 K1200GT [now lives in Wisconsin]
Grey Goose
2002 K1200LTC [now lives in Georgia]
Toscana Temptress

More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #19 of 25 Old Sep 14th, 2006, 9:33 am
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Thumbs up Non-Issue for my Dealer

I am not sure how BMW is handling the upgrade, but with my dealer, Portland Motorcycle, payment was never even an issue nor was doing the upgrade in conjunction with another scheduled service. I called and set a separate appointment, and then my schedule changed and I ended up being in the area two days sooner. I called them 2 hours before I was going to be that way and they said to just bring it in and they would pull someone off and do it while I waited. It took about an hour and the tech did monitor the install while it was in process. In and out the door in a little over an hour and very pleased with the difference made by 7.0 and especially the excellent CUSTOMER service.
While I was waiting, the service manager volunteered that he had just read a BMW bulletin that said that the new GTs were coming with a drain plug on the final drive and that BMW was now adding a rear drive fluid change to the 600 mile service (cost $42.00 labor plus fluid). He said that I could come by now or wait till my next service. Obviously at 11,000 miles I am a bit past the newly recommended 600 mile change. I intend to get by sooner than later and I will be most interested to see what kind of condition and material, if any, is found in the removed fluid.

Very pleased with service in Portland,
Jeff
"MitchRider"
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post #20 of 25 Old Sep 17th, 2006, 10:19 am
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I think it should be a warranty issue.

It seems to me that if the software update is correcting flaws in the initial programing of the bike, BMW should fix it a no charge for the entire length of the warranty. However, BMW apparently thinks differently than I do.

Thanks for keeping us informed of little burps like this, so those of us planning to get a GT will know what to discuss with dealer.

Dick Wood
2014 R1200RTW Quartz Blue Metallic
Previous2008 Aventurin Silver Metallic K1200GT
Previous 2002 Toscana Green LTE
Previous 1995 HD FXDL
IBA #7393


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post #21 of 25 Old Sep 19th, 2006, 7:53 pm
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Regardless of how we view the matter, there is a legally binding warrantee that comes with the new bike. What does it say?

Bill
Guilford, CT
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post #22 of 25 Old Sep 20th, 2006, 7:18 pm
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My dealer, Manhattan BMW says that it is not a warranty issue. They did it on a warranty basis ( they are not getting reimbursed by BMW NA). I had complained at 600 mile service of the 1st & 2nd gear snatchiness(sp?).

I am thrilled with the new found performance characteristics of my 06 GT. I now have 1500 miles and going like hell!

Larry
2009 Deep Blue K1300GT
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post #23 of 25 Old Sep 21st, 2006, 12:55 pm
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Cool GT geezers

Quote:
Originally Posted by larrykay
My dealer, Manhattan BMW says that it is not a warranty issue. They did it on a warranty basis ( they are not getting reimbursed by BMW NA). I had complained at 600 mile service of the 1st & 2nd gear snatchiness(sp?).

I am thrilled with the new found performance characteristics of my 06 GT. I now have 1500 miles and going like hell!
Larry,

Loved your profile. Maybe we should start the GT Geezer Gang?

Sneaking up on 4,000 miles on mine. SO says it is our best riding bike ever.

Rob Nelson

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2006 K1200GT [now lives in Wisconsin]
Grey Goose
2002 K1200LTC [now lives in Georgia]
Toscana Temptress

More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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post #24 of 25 Old Sep 23rd, 2006, 9:23 am
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We could go it the "old fart motorcycle gang" or the "over the hill bikers" Lot's of choices. I wonder how many 'senior" citizens ride ????

Larry
2009 Deep Blue K1300GT
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post #25 of 25 Old Sep 28th, 2006, 11:12 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrykay
We could go it the "old fart motorcycle gang" or the "over the hill bikers" Lot's of choices. I wonder how many 'senior" citizens ride ????
HD and Buick have the same demographic buyers.

Rob Nelson

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2006 K1200GT [now lives in Wisconsin]
Grey Goose
2002 K1200LTC [now lives in Georgia]
Toscana Temptress

More than 132,000 (recently corrected higher) motorcycle riders have died in traffic crashes since the enactment of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 and The National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966. Be careful out there.
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