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post #1 of 20 Old Dec 21st, 2014, 7:53 am Thread Starter
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throttle Response

I live in the mountains of north Georgia so I ride twisties a lot on my 2009 K1300GT. It is very annoying that on my bike when twisting the throttle to accelerate it seems that the fuel injectors do not open until after the throttle is twisted well past the point where the slack is taken up out of the cables. I also ride a GTL with ride-by-wire throttle so I am used to throttle response being immediate. Is there any way to make an adjustment on the K13GT where the fuel injectors open sooner when twisting the throttle?

******

Al Strickland
Blairsville, Georgia
1967 Honda Cub
1972 Honda CB350
1979 Suzuki GS750E
2001 R1150GS (gone -- victim of a Highway 28 curve)
2002 K1200LT Trike (now history, transmission died)
2009 R1200GS
2013 K1600GTL
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post #2 of 20 Old Dec 21st, 2014, 12:18 pm
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Re: throttle Response

Known issue with the GT Al. There is rumor of a new SW load from BMW but my new dealer is still trying to get all the NEXT (replaces the MoDitec and Moss units) computer SW loaded. Many have had success using the AF-XiED unit from BeemerBoneyard to trick the O2 sensor to richen up the mixture. I am waiting to see if the SW works for me.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #3 of 20 Old Dec 21st, 2014, 1:24 pm Thread Starter
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Re: throttle Response

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Originally Posted by jzeiler View Post
Known issue with the GT Al. There is rumor of a new SW load from BMW but my new dealer is still trying to get all the NEXT (replaces the MoDitec and Moss units) computer SW loaded. Many have had success using the AF-XiED unit from BeemerBoneyard to trick the O2 sensor to richen up the mixture. I am waiting to see if the SW works for me.
I put a Booster Plug on it which is supposed to do the same thing as the AF-XiED but that didn't help. I guess I will wait and hope BMW addresses it (but I'm not holding my breath )

******

Al Strickland
Blairsville, Georgia
1967 Honda Cub
1972 Honda CB350
1979 Suzuki GS750E
2001 R1150GS (gone -- victim of a Highway 28 curve)
2002 K1200LT Trike (now history, transmission died)
2009 R1200GS
2013 K1600GTL
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post #4 of 20 Old Dec 21st, 2014, 3:43 pm
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Re: throttle Response

I'd also adjust your throttle cables to take up most of the slack. Don't overdo it, of course, but that should help things somewhat.

I alos have a GTL, and the ride-by-wire throttle just works.

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles and counting...
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles miles and counting...
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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All lower 48 states plus Alaska on the K13GT in two weeks . . .

Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #5 of 20 Old Dec 22nd, 2014, 8:10 am Thread Starter
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Re: throttle Response

On the older LT one of the ways to address the stalling issue was to disconnect the O2 sensor. I wonder if this would help. Would disconnecting the O2 sensor cause a warning light to stay on?

******

Al Strickland
Blairsville, Georgia
1967 Honda Cub
1972 Honda CB350
1979 Suzuki GS750E
2001 R1150GS (gone -- victim of a Highway 28 curve)
2002 K1200LT Trike (now history, transmission died)
2009 R1200GS
2013 K1600GTL
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post #6 of 20 Old Dec 22nd, 2014, 5:18 pm
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Re: throttle Response

I think you mean the air temp sensor, not the O2. It would help and keep the bike in cold open loop mode and super rich if you undid the O2.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #7 of 20 Old Dec 22nd, 2014, 5:22 pm Thread Starter
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Re: throttle Response

Today I read an old thread that talked about solving this by replacing the O2 sensor with a Bosch sensor sold by Beamer Boneyard. I am going to give that a try. I have very little hope that BMW is going to do anything about a problem like this on a bike they no longer make.

******

Al Strickland
Blairsville, Georgia
1967 Honda Cub
1972 Honda CB350
1979 Suzuki GS750E
2001 R1150GS (gone -- victim of a Highway 28 curve)
2002 K1200LT Trike (now history, transmission died)
2009 R1200GS
2013 K1600GTL
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post #8 of 20 Old Dec 22nd, 2014, 9:49 pm
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Re: throttle Response

The i-BMW web site has two guys that recently got updated SW loaded on their bikes and it solved the problem. I am just waiting for my new dealer to get his machine up and running so I can see what load is available. I know I have a 2010 update already. But there is talk of a recent release.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
But lack DE, MA, RI and CT with the 2005 LT

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post #9 of 20 Old Jan 1st, 2015, 12:36 am
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Re: throttle Response

OP
You're trying to mess with what you don't understand. The fueling computer in your bike is adaptive and will dial out most types of changes given enough time.
There are long threads on this in various places complete with logged data and graphs that show what it does and how.

The air temp spoof won't help nor will a different oxygen sensor if yours is working, an AF-XiED might (it evens the jerky from low revs response of my 06 K1200GT) and a proper factory software load if available to you should be the preferred start point.

BMW bikes have been too lean to various extent and in various conditions depending on model pretty much ever since they built their first injection bike. Some of the 1100s and 1150s are inexcusably bad from the factory as described in hundred of complaints about surging, start issues, etc.
Except for the very latest couple year models, all benefit in pretty obvious ways from richening the fuel mix appropriately. But the trick is that it needs to be done in a way compatible with the adaptive nature (different map sets that interact in defined ways) of the programming.

In our fleet the F800GTs are fine stock, my hexhead RT is passable stock, the K1200RS (brick engine) got a RhineWest chip to fix its problems, and the R1100S got an AF-XiED whch has completely transformed that bike. The K1200GT has a AF-XiED which cured herky jerkies but I don't like that bike much anyway- rides and handles like a pig. Best motor of the bunch is by far the re-chipped K1200RS
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post #10 of 20 Old Jan 3rd, 2015, 6:28 am Thread Starter
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Re: throttle Response

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Originally Posted by racer7 View Post
OP
You're trying to mess with what you don't understand. The fueling computer in your bike is adaptive and will dial out most types of changes given enough time.
There are long threads on this in various places complete with logged data and graphs that show what it does and how.

The air temp spoof won't help nor will a different oxygen sensor if yours is working, an AF-XiED might (it evens the jerky from low revs response of my 06 K1200GT) and a proper factory software load if available to you should be the preferred start point.

BMW bikes have been too lean to various extent and in various conditions depending on model pretty much ever since they built their first injection bike. Some of the 1100s and 1150s are inexcusably bad from the factory as described in hundred of complaints about surging, start issues, etc.
Except for the very latest couple year models, all benefit in pretty obvious ways from richening the fuel mix appropriately. But the trick is that it needs to be done in a way compatible with the adaptive nature (different map sets that interact in defined ways) of the programming.

In our fleet the F800GTs are fine stock, my hexhead RT is passable stock, the K1200RS (brick engine) got a RhineWest chip to fix its problems, and the R1100S got an AF-XiED whch has completely transformed that bike. The K1200GT has a AF-XiED which cured herky jerkies but I don't like that bike much anyway- rides and handles like a pig. Best motor of the bunch is by far the re-chipped K1200RS
I certainly agree that I don't understand this high tech machine . I'm not an engineer - I count pills for a living. But I am grasping at straws to solve this hesitation when I accelerate hard through a curve. According to my dealer he checked the VIN number and the bikes most recent service records and says I have the latest SW. I a trying everything else I have read in various threads. The Booster Plug helped the bike accelerate smoother at low RPMs but what you are saying is this is temporary and will revert back to the original condition when the computer adapts. BTW the Booster Plug didn't cost me anything because I took it off the GS I traded, it's the same one for the K13GT according to the manufacturer. As you stated, the new 02 sensor didn't help. I have thought about trying the AF-XIED but those are pretty expensive. At this point I guess my options are: 1) check with another dealer and have them put the bike on their computer and see if I do actually have the latest software, 2) buy the AF-XIED and see if I can fine tune the fuel/O2 mixture, or 3) live with it the way it is. Any other options I am missing?

******

Al Strickland
Blairsville, Georgia
1967 Honda Cub
1972 Honda CB350
1979 Suzuki GS750E
2001 R1150GS (gone -- victim of a Highway 28 curve)
2002 K1200LT Trike (now history, transmission died)
2009 R1200GS
2013 K1600GTL
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post #11 of 20 Old Jan 3rd, 2015, 6:35 am Thread Starter
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Re: throttle Response

I haven't connected my GS911 to this bike yet. Will it tell me which SW version has been loaded? If so, maybe with some research I can find out for myself what is the latest version available. Again, maybe I am being naive by assuming there is only one software version for the bike

******

Al Strickland
Blairsville, Georgia
1967 Honda Cub
1972 Honda CB350
1979 Suzuki GS750E
2001 R1150GS (gone -- victim of a Highway 28 curve)
2002 K1200LT Trike (now history, transmission died)
2009 R1200GS
2013 K1600GTL
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post #12 of 20 Old Jan 3rd, 2015, 7:04 am Thread Starter
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Re: throttle Response

i am always looking to be educated about these bikes by people who obviously understand them a lot better than I do... It was my understanding that the Booster Plug simply modifies the signal from the temp sensor so the computer reads that ambient temperature is a couple of degrees lower than it actually is and the computer adapts to that lower temperature. I have also read somewhere that the O2 sensor over time will compensate and adjust the air/fuel mixture according to fuel mapping. If this is the case, what is the purpose in having a temp sensor at all?

******

Al Strickland
Blairsville, Georgia
1967 Honda Cub
1972 Honda CB350
1979 Suzuki GS750E
2001 R1150GS (gone -- victim of a Highway 28 curve)
2002 K1200LT Trike (now history, transmission died)
2009 R1200GS
2013 K1600GTL
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post #13 of 20 Old Jan 3rd, 2015, 10:58 pm
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Re: throttle Response

Nothing wrong with pharma work- in addition to playing with machinery for more than 50 yrs I made my living in that industry running quality and mfg ops for big pharma and otc shops- including commissioning the largest plant in the country for aseptically filled and lyo'ed steriles.

Anyway, yes the GS-911 will show what software version is installed. BMW typically has a few versions for any bike that's been out a while- often to address stalling or other issues.

Basic physics- the amount of oxygen in a volume of air is density dependent which is temp dependent. The temp data provides an offset to the base program so oxygen and fuel can be matched at engine input. The oxygen sensor examines the result of the burn and adjusts fuel ratio to keep it in the defined window. There are two map sets in the computer that slowly interact and will adjust to other than the primary control device which is the oxygen sensor system. All narrow band oxygen sensors like the stock one work the same way and do the same thing- so many are interchangeable. (The major differences are how heated, wiring plugs and length, etc)

Use of a wide band oxygen sensor (an entirely different animal that can control fuel ranges over the entire range of combustion ratios rather than just the partial range the stock type does) can allow a different type of programming and aftermarket computers of various types can be installed on the bike- but many run open loop only so destroy any semblance of emission control. I won't use devices like that on any street machine I own. Installing a wideband system is for experts only.

The AF-XiED will feed a signal to the oxygen sensor which permanently enriches the closed loop part of operation (most of bike operation), maintaining all basic emissions control systems and programming, subject only to the offset. I can't tell you it will solve your problem because I haven't examined your bike. But if you think its expensive don't even think about any other route than perhaps a factory software revision if available. ALL other possibles are 3-8X more expensive by the time you're done with them and many will leave you with a hacked bike no one else will want when you decide to sell it.

I've never liked the wedge motor- even running right it can't come close to the prior brick motor for all around niceness even though it does have a few more ponies up top. At least the 1300 fixed some of the most obvious screwups of the 1200 wedge.There is a reason one almost never finds a K1200GT brick for sale and even the K1200RS isn't seen very often - owners like them and keep them. The K1200RS in our fleet won't get sold until I'm an invalid or dead.

Most dealerships, unless they steadily build high caliber non stock race bikes are no place to go for anything than than factory software and some can even screw that up. Think about upgrading WinDoze versions on your pc and you've got the idea.

Got any tech hotshots in your local club who ride your model? If so see if he'll check out yours. The AF-XiED is easily installed by anyone who does routine service on their bike- you just find the right plug connection and insert it. On my 1200 it could be done without lifting the gas tank IF you know exactly where to look- otherwise you'll be clearing stuff to get a better view. Other stuff is magnitudes harder.

As you probably know by now, the wedge is a bit of a nuisance to work on and isn't owner friendly for anyone not an experienced mechanic. There is a reason the boxer is BMWs bread and butter motor. If they ever stop making it they might as well close up.
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post #14 of 20 Old Jan 4th, 2015, 8:03 am Thread Starter
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Re: throttle Response

Thanks for that explanation but I must admit some of it is over my head. It has been nearly 40 years since I had a physics class in college. I installed an O2 sensor I bought from Beemer Boneyard. It's a "Bosch O2 sensor to fit all BMW motorcycles equipped with an O2 sensor". I don't know if it's a narrow band or if it's a wide band sensor? I also installed a Booster Plug. Is there anyway I can know what this has done to the bike, if anything?

******

Al Strickland
Blairsville, Georgia
1967 Honda Cub
1972 Honda CB350
1979 Suzuki GS750E
2001 R1150GS (gone -- victim of a Highway 28 curve)
2002 K1200LT Trike (now history, transmission died)
2009 R1200GS
2013 K1600GTL
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post #15 of 20 Old Jan 4th, 2015, 3:26 pm
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Re: throttle Response

There is no such thing as a drop in wideband- for one thing they're wired differently. ALL typical replacements are narrow band lambda type sensors.

A GS-911 can log real time engine data. The Booster Plug is intended to effect only a very small part of engine operation- the open loop part. Which applies to some acceleration conditions, the first half minute or so after startup until the oxygen sensor warms up, etc. You could try to use its impact on open loop air fuel ration with your GS-911 but it really takes some experience to use it at that level.

You could install both an AF-XiED and a Booster Plug on th same bike because one does closed loop and one open loop- but the map interaction makes it without any real purpose eventually.
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post #16 of 20 Old Jan 5th, 2015, 7:02 am Thread Starter
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Re: throttle Response

Hmmm.... So software mods from BMW seems to be the only reasonable solution to the hesitation problem. Does anyone know of latest software version for the 2009 K1300GT in the US.?

******

Al Strickland
Blairsville, Georgia
1967 Honda Cub
1972 Honda CB350
1979 Suzuki GS750E
2001 R1150GS (gone -- victim of a Highway 28 curve)
2002 K1200LT Trike (now history, transmission died)
2009 R1200GS
2013 K1600GTL
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post #17 of 20 Old Jan 5th, 2015, 10:41 am
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Re: throttle Response

You might want to take a look here
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post #18 of 20 Old Jan 12th, 2015, 1:19 pm Thread Starter
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Re: throttle Response

Yesterday I put 1/2 can of Seafoam in a tank of gas to see if cleaning the fuel injectors a little would help with the hesitation problem. BIG MISTAKE!!!! When I accelerated hard it sputtered like it was going to completely stall, even at 6000 rpms. I will be riding slow until this tank of gas is gone.

******

Al Strickland
Blairsville, Georgia
1967 Honda Cub
1972 Honda CB350
1979 Suzuki GS750E
2001 R1150GS (gone -- victim of a Highway 28 curve)
2002 K1200LT Trike (now history, transmission died)
2009 R1200GS
2013 K1600GTL
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post #19 of 20 Old Jan 13th, 2015, 12:53 pm
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Re: throttle Response

Al I really do not think its got anything to do with the seafoam I put that in my LT all the time and never had any issues maybe its just a GT thing
The only other thing maybe is the injectors and such were a little on the dirty side and now are cleaning up just a thought

Gary
2003 K1200LT
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post #20 of 20 Old Jan 14th, 2015, 7:01 am Thread Starter
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Re: throttle Response

I have always use ethanol free gasoline but this time I used premium gas which I assume is 10% ethanol. Could that be the cause of the problem?

******

Al Strickland
Blairsville, Georgia
1967 Honda Cub
1972 Honda CB350
1979 Suzuki GS750E
2001 R1150GS (gone -- victim of a Highway 28 curve)
2002 K1200LT Trike (now history, transmission died)
2009 R1200GS
2013 K1600GTL
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