Why would anyone buy a GT over an FJR1300?! - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 112 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 12:31 pm Thread Starter
 
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Why would anyone buy a GT over an FJR1300?!

IN THIS THREAD, my first paragraph basically states 10 reasons why the Gold Wing is a smarter purchase than the LT. After all, it's the purchase that makes the most sense "on paper". BUT...we don't buy a bike on paper, do we? We buy them with our hearts. And sometimes, with the hearts (and heads) of our wives.

I wanted to start this thread out the same way, with a list of reasons why the FJR1300 was the smarter purchase . . . but I can only come up with ONE reason. It's cheaper. That's it. It's cheaper. Sorry guys, but my heart doesn't care about "cheaper". And for the first time in my married life, my wife didn't seem to care about that either.

I know there are FJR1300 owners here that will read this and find reasons why their bike was right for them. And to all of you I would say, "Good for you. You made the right choice . . . for you." (You included Todd! )

But for me, my new K1200GT replaced the LT and the Ninja just as I had hoped that it would. I just don't think that a Yamaha was up to that challenge. I guess that '02 LT accomplished it's ultimate goal. It turned me into a Beemer snob. ...and probably one for life.
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post #2 of 112 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 3:05 pm
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I have to agree with you. About the only good reason is it is cheaper. Everything else is pretty subjective depending on each individual (looks, speed, comfort, name brand, etc...). After reading the article in Motorcycle Consumer News both bikes are extremely close in all catagories, the BMW just a slight technology advantage, so bottom line to me is do you want to spend 13,500(no finger shift) or 22,000. If I could do it "Beemer"

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post #3 of 112 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 3:11 pm Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Dochatley
After reading the article in Motorcycle Consumer News both bikes are extremely close in all catagories...
And I grossly disagree with Motorcycle Consumer News. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the two bikes aren't even in the same category. The FJR's lack of lean angle eliminates it from the Sport-Touring class, IMHO.
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post #4 of 112 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 3:27 pm
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I haven't ridden either bike so I can't really comment. I do know from reading the comments by the new GT owners it is an awesome bike. I will say thank goodness this is a BMW forum. Those YaMaHa folks would be opening cans of "WHOOP ASS" all over you Joe.

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post #5 of 112 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 3:31 pm Thread Starter
 
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I suppose we'd just have to settle it once-and-for-all on the Cherohala Skyway...or any other set of twisties and sweepers that we could find. Just as the LT won't be able to keep up with the GT, I'd put the FJR in just about the same lean-angle class.
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post #6 of 112 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 3:38 pm
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Originally Posted by messenger13
I suppose we'd just have to settle it once-and-for-all on the Cherohala Skyway...or any other set of twisties and sweepers that we could find. Just as the LT won't be able to keep up with the GT, I'd put the FJR in just about the same lean-angle class.


well now you went and done it, I know for a fact my LT has a further lean angle than the FJR , a little add on made that possible <g>

if you would have been behind both of us at any time you would have seen that as well. however I will say that GT well YOU SUCK is all I can say cause you made me give it back <grin>

Tom

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post #7 of 112 Old Jul 20th, 2006, 4:12 pm
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Hey Joe,
Take a look at the FJR's weight max and AMPs. I think the GT is much higher??

David Major
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post #8 of 112 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 11:49 am
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Sport Touring class

Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
And I grossly disagree with Motorcycle Consumer News. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the two bikes aren't even in the same category. The FJR's lack of lean angle eliminates it from the Sport-Touring class, IMHO.
And I grossly disagree with you. :-) The FJR has more lean angle than I want, though my LT transitions smoother, and in the hands of a good rider, I think it will give the GT a run for it in the twisties. My opinion is just as humble as yours but I have 30,000 miles of experience on the FJR and probably 150,000 on various BMWs.

Just old, clutchless and clueless
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post #9 of 112 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 3:29 pm Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by McRuss
And I grossly disagree with you. :-) The FJR has more lean angle than I want, though my LT transitions smoother, and in the hands of a good rider, I think it will give the GT a run for it in the twisties. My opinion is just as humble as yours but I have 30,000 miles of experience on the FJR and probably 150,000 on various BMWs.
I'll see ya at CCR. We can compare lean angles...LIVE.
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post #10 of 112 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 3:38 pm
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Originally Posted by messenger13
I'll see ya at CCR. We can compare lean angles...LIVE.
Hey Joe, been taking a close look at my bike, can't find anything that would suggest rear drive, spacer was in, funny cauuse it does looked like I rubber the swingarm, think I was pushing it that hard to allow the tire to flex now that it is that much taller? you can see both sidewall of the tire have been run on, yes all the way off the edge about 1/4" up the sidewall, I only scvraped her a couple times lwhile you were here though.

DANG ya big LUG! I Can't run with you like that! she is going to go sliding one day! maybe i should lower her back down so I can scrape more again and not run off the edge of the tire!
<grin>

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post #11 of 112 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 4:11 pm
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Cool Yamaha VS BMW

Having visited HRC and Yamaha in Japan and worked directly with BMW Munich, my money is on BMW. I sold them all products and worked closely with their development teams and racing teams.

Rob Nelson

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post #12 of 112 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 5:34 pm Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by fas
Having visited HRC and Yamaha in Japan and worked directly with BMW Munich, my money is on BMW. I sold them all products and worked closely with their development teams and racing teams.
Dag! I gotta get to know you a little better. Sounds like you have some great stories to tell.
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post #13 of 112 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 6:54 pm
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huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fas
Having visited HRC and Yamaha in Japan and worked directly with BMW Munich, my money is on BMW. I sold them all products and worked closely with their development teams and racing teams.
Not sure what that has to do with lean angles....

but if we are talking quality, then my money is definately on the Yamaha. I sold an R1150RT with 30,000 miles when I bought my '04 FJR. In the 30k that I owned the RT, the following items were fixed under warranty (God bless their 3 yr, 36k warranty!):

Transmission, replaced
Speedometer, replaced
Fuel gauge sending unit, replaced
Clutch main and slave cylinders, replaced
Surging problem, "sorry, they all do that....." three dealers, none could fix it

Problems with the FJR in the first 30k:

None.....

And first '05 LT broke....ok, not fair, a car hit me and totaled it at 3400 miles, not enought for things to start failing...

Current LT has already had a fuel line disconnect fail
Fuel leak from disconnect wiped out one of the 'landing lights'
Rear brake rotor had to be replaced (obscene rattle)
I carry a spare shift linkage (known failure item)
I also carry two forms of towing insurance and a piece of plastic with a high limit!

And it only has 21,000!

But my wife loves the LT or I would probably be riding a new '06 FJR. As I said, I have lots of miles on BMWs. And all but the K75 have had serious issues in the first 25-30k miles. But I keep coming back to them for some reason. This LT because my wife said so! And who was I to argue as long as I got to keep the FJR? That was my only stipulation. Oh, and that we get rid of the Triumph Tr4 money pit.

Just old, clutchless and clueless
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post #14 of 112 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 7:21 pm
 
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Why an FJR? Because the GT in its current form didnt exist when I bought my FJR. So guess what? I will ride the FJR for a few more years, then I will find a fine example of a 2-3 year old GT and buy it. Just like I did with the 2000 LTC for $9000 w/ 22000 miles. I can wait.
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post #15 of 112 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 7:47 pm
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The better question is......

Why would anyone waste the extra $8,000 for a GT, when it has no significant advantages over the FJR?

Horsepower, handling, ergonomics, capacity, range.....The folks who test bikes for a living (as opposed to biased owners looking for excuses to justify their investment) have said there is NO runaway winner in these categories.

Oh yeah, the GT has technology, you guys can certainly hang your hat/wallet on that.

Dealer network, support and recent historical reliability? Please, don't make me laugh.

Looks? Folks love the looks of the FJR. Sure the GT gets some attention, but the last time I went to a carnival there was a line of folks waiting to get into the freak show too.

For shits 'n giggles, lets just say the maintenance costs (tires, oil and filter, valve checks, etc.) are equal. We all know they're not, but let's just call it a wash. At the current $3/gallon for regular (does the GT run on regular?) the typical FJR owner can put ~500 miles on his bike every week, for nearly 5 years before he gets close to the initial investment of the GT.

What's that old saying? A fool and his money......

Dave Hoogerland

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post #16 of 112 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 7:53 pm Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by hoog62
The folks who test bikes for a living (as opposed to biased owners looking for excuses to justify their investment) have said there is NO runaway winner in these categories.
And so goes my point with you buying an LT over the GoldWing. But you don't want to hear about that, do you?

And don't be so naive as to think that Yamaha isn't in the tester's pockets. Gimme a break!

I rode with 2 FJRs. They are toys compared to the GT. Mere TOYS.
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post #17 of 112 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 8:02 pm
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The LT was a better fit for us, and it was less expensive. Simple really. After owning it, I definitely feel it would be worth a premium over the GW. $8k though, no way (oops, I'm repeating myself).

What was your point again?

Dave Hoogerland

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post #18 of 112 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 8:23 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
The LT was a better fit for us, and it was less expensive. Simple really. After owning it, I definitely feel it would be worth a premium over the GW. $8k though, no way (oops, I'm repeating myself).

What was your point again?
I think he already made it in his first post - he's a BMW snob!


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post #19 of 112 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 8:52 pm
 
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Originally Posted by RonKMiller
I think he already made it in his first post - he's a BMW snob!
Uh, we are on a BMW site. Some bias maybe? Naaahhh. The question is not what bike is superior. To my eyes, the GT's fit/finish and overall engineering is a cut above the FJR. But is it worth an extra $8K? For me, no. That's why I will buy a used one quite soon for the same price as an FJR. Win/Win. The question then will be do I keep the FJR, the LT, and the GT? One may have to go, but which? I will love them all.
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post #20 of 112 Old Jul 21st, 2006, 10:21 pm
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Originally Posted by McRuss
Not sure what that has to do with lean angles....

but if we are talking quality, then my money is definately on the Yamaha. I sold an R1150RT with 30,000 miles when I bought my '04 FJR. In the 30k that I owned the RT, the following items were fixed under warranty (God bless their 3 yr, 36k warranty!):

Transmission, replaced
Speedometer, replaced
Fuel gauge sending unit, replaced
Clutch main and slave cylinders, replaced
Surging problem, "sorry, they all do that....." three dealers, none could fix it

Problems with the FJR in the first 30k:

None.....

And first '05 LT broke....ok, not fair, a car hit me and totaled it at 3400 miles, not enought for things to start failing...

Current LT has already had a fuel line disconnect fail
Fuel leak from disconnect wiped out one of the 'landing lights'
Rear brake rotor had to be replaced (obscene rattle)
I carry a spare shift linkage (known failure item)
I also carry two forms of towing insurance and a piece of plastic with a high limit!

And it only has 21,000!
got 124500 or so on mine now, she had her problems with abs one final drive but for the most part now has been pretty good, reverse just quit on it though

Tom

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post #21 of 112 Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 7:27 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
(as opposed to biased owners looking for excuses to justify their investment)
Heh, thats a keeper Dave.
The nail has been hit squarely on the the head.

Mike
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post #22 of 112 Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 10:18 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
Why would anyone waste the extra $8,000 for a GT, when it has no significant advantages over the FJR?

Horsepower, handling, ergonomics, capacity, range.....The folks who test bikes for a living (as opposed to biased owners looking for excuses to justify their investment) have said there is NO runaway winner in these categories.

Now that was funny! I mean really really funny!

lets see you will take someone else word for justifying buying a much cheaper bike? that has less ergonomics, poorer suspension (by a LONG shot) less handling quality, harder steering. hmmmmmm.......

Maybe you are just trying to justify why you can't/won't spent the extra 8k for a superior machine, i hear that from the Connie owners all the time (which btw has beeter ergonmics than the FJR for sport touring so why didn't you buy that and save yet another 6-7k <grin>). same from the KLR owners both of which are great bikes FOR THE MONEY! but compare to nothing else even closely in the same class

Personally i don't give much credit to the paid pros when I have been riding a motorcycle now for 30 years and more than likely have at LEAST double the miles than any of the paid pros do, i think I know what is good and could care less if it were a BMW or not.

The bike (the NEW GT) IMNSHO is the best thing that I have ever rode by a LONG shot. it is a fine touring machine that rides better than the LT, Goldwing and far better than the FJR Connie any HD the ST1xxx's the list could go on and on. Hell it had a better RIDE than the GS and to me that was probably thee most comfortable suspenion out there


Now if you just happen to love your FJR then that is fine, say so and no one can say your wrong.

But don't even try and tell me or us for that matter that because a paid pro says it's so that it is, that is pure HOG wash.

I've been around motorcycles since a kid, hell I started riding them to school since right at 14 yrs old, have owned street bikes since then constantly except for about year after my first divorce in '84 - OVER 30 years of street riding!

No "professional" is going to tell me what is a better riding handle performing machine, sorry the riders that did that comparo hadn't a clue IMHO comparing the FJR to the GT.
It is like comparing a Ninja to a Harley.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

no dissrespect meant - think about your statement for a moment

Tom

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post #23 of 112 Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 12:31 pm
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Gee Tom, what took you so long? Joe snapped back in 6 minutes. I'm glad he bought the right bike for you, really I am!

<g>

Dave Hoogerland

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post #24 of 112 Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 1:21 pm
 
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Gang,

I finally did it. I went out and took a test drive on a GT.

First off, let me say I was not impressed with the looks of the GT. That compressed angular look is not my style.

I have ridden the R1200GS and really fell in love with the smooth ride. It is too tall for me. I took the K1200S for a spin and was blown away with the power and speed. I know my limits and I know I could have a good time on that bike till I ended up in jail.

On my test ride of the GT the first thing that hit me was the anatomy of the seat. It was not what I expected, yet it was surprisingly springy. I have *never* experienced any two wheeled vehicle with such a smooth transmission. It was unreal. I found that even with the handlebars in the full up position, I had too much pressure on my palms. While my test bike did not have the bags or the barn door windshield on it. I found a whole lot of wind on the forearms. It was not a windy day, yet the bike was twitched around by the little wind there was.

I got back on my LT and was very happy, comfortable and entertained by all it's gizmo's and accoutrements.
I have owned a number of BMW's starting with the RS which I quickly traded for the RT cause *70 RPM's seemed just right* after owning 10 Harley's.

As I told the owner of our local shops: I have got to just slap myself and wait till the new LT comes out to make any big decisions.

Has anyone heard of a GT owner that has done a BBG or SS1000 yet?
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post #25 of 112 Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 6:07 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
Gee Tom, what took you so long? Joe snapped back in 6 minutes. I'm glad he bought the right bike for you, really I am!

<g>
I was tired, the barking dogs behind me kept us up all night long, for aboutt the third night in a row, tis the reason we didn;t leave today for a nice overnight weekend ride after the second call to the sherrif deptartment they finally stopped for about a half hour, so i was pretty sleepy and couldn't think good to give ya a hard time <g>

Now if Joe was a real nice guy he would have left the bike he bought for me down here and used my LT for the trip to and from Ohio so he could come down and ride the bike he bought for me.

hehehehe

it's all in good poking fun ya know. seriously though as much as I liked the FJR the gt fits me much better and well worth the extra bucks just like the FJR is over so many others, look how rotten the reviews are on bikes like the Tiger, that is a fine bike as well for it's purpose the poor V-Strom doesn;t get the reviews it deserves either.

i got to admit though If i could afford them all, i would have a R1200GS-A and that stupidly overpriced GT and use my LT for a trade in on both.

Wonder if the wife would notice that many more payments coming out of the bank account , (probably not till she got the statements <grin>) then it would be the doghouse with the dang barking dogs for me!

Tom

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post #26 of 112 Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 6:18 pm
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Originally Posted by black1200lt
Gang,

I finally did it. I went out and took a test drive on a GT.

First off, let me say I was not impressed with the looks of the GT. That compressed angular look is not my style.

I have ridden the R1200GS and really fell in love with the smooth ride. It is too tall for me. I took the K1200S for a

Hi Coni!

hehehehe, leetle Vicki johnston rides that 1200Gs all over the place, bob fixed her though (you know them both i think) , she just had new shocks put on it, Ohlins i think, she can hardly tippy toe that gs now, it was quite funny actually well for me anyhow, I told her she could leave it with me, but she declined <hehehe>
I have pics someplace of her looking like a ballerina on it, lower shocks would definitly be a plus for her on the 1200gs
Quote:

spin and was blown away with the power and speed. I know my limits and I know I could have a good time on that bike till I ended up in jail.

On my test ride of the GT the first thing that hit me was the anatomy of the seat. It was not what I expected, yet it was surprisingly springy. I have *never* experienced any two wheeled vehicle with such a smooth transmission. It was unreal. I found that even with the handlebars in the full up position, I had too much pressure on my palms. While my test bike did not have the bags or the barn door windshield on it. I found a whole lot of wind on the forearms. It was not a windy day, yet the bike was twitched around by the little wind there was.

I got back on my LT and was very happy, comfortable and entertained by all it's gizmo's and accoutrements.
I have owned a number of BMW's starting with the RS which I quickly traded for the RT cause *70 RPM's seemed just right* after owning 10 Harley's.
heheheh just another HD transfer myself, what;s up with that? <g>
Quote:

As I told the owner of our local shops: I have got to just slap myself and wait till the new LT comes out to make any big decisions.

Has anyone heard of a GT owner that has done a BBG or SS1000 yet?
come to think of it no, I've been watching the LDR list just waiting to see who gets one there.

joe has done half a bbg a couple times<g> in the 3 weeks he owned his, i told him 700 miles should take him about 3.5 hours on that bike

(he did have over 3k miles on it when he was here a week ago I think)

BTW how has Don been havn't seen much of him posting , i should send him a howdy
hope to see ya'll soon!

Tom Gallo

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post #27 of 112 Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 6:43 pm
 
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FJR and LT owner here. Have ridden the BMW Gt. All bikes are excellent but different. I like each for the individual characteristics.
If you are ridding what you like... good for you... if not then there is always an option to change.

Isn't it wonderful that we now have such a wide variety of bike choices!!

Monk in NC
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post #28 of 112 Old Jul 22nd, 2006, 6:55 pm
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Originally Posted by monk50

Isn't it wonderful that we now have such a wide variety of bike choices!!

Monk in NC
This is probably thee best statement I have seen in a while!

Dang 30 years ago it was not this way (not that i could have afforded something like i have today then. Then Hd was thee touring king, so i chopped mine up <grin> and made a touring bike out of it HAHAHAHAHAHa

ya know how the saying is young dumb and had to be tough <g>

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post #29 of 112 Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 8:20 am
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After reading the posts here I am battling with " I am looking for another bike" syndrome.

Take in mind that I am 5' 6" with obviously a short inseam. Have to tip-toe the bike and the wife doesn't care much for that! I, like Tom have ridden all of my life ( yes I used to ride my bike to school at the age of 14). The LT has been a good bike and handles very well in curves for such a monster of a bike. But now at 37K miles on the clock, the OE shocks are shot! They were probably gone several K ago. Now I am looking at 2K dollars to replace with aftermarket shocks and I am past due on the 36K service. THe bike is ridden almost every day and maintenance costs are high. (you all can cry me a river!)

So, with all of that in mind, Is the FJR a good buy for the money or do we spend the extra 5 grand JUST to buy the GT? I take Joe for his word (but is it worth 5 extra grand); he is opinionated but he can back what he says!

I can always test ride the GT, the FJR is another story. No shop has the FJR. It is hard to ride pictures!

I hush and read on!

Brett
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post #30 of 112 Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 9:25 am
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Brett, it's 8 grand not 5.

The PDP program for the FJR is ridiculous IMO, but that is the way it's marketed. There are some dealers that have FJRs that are not spoken for, but you'd have to call around to find one.

FWIW There will be at least one '06 FJR at CCR, look me up.

Dave Hoogerland

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post #31 of 112 Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 9:49 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkpr1998
After reading the posts here I am battling with " I am looking for another bike" syndrome.

Take in mind that I am 5' 6" with obviously a short inseam. Have to tip-toe the bike and the wife doesn't care much for that! I, like Tom have ridden all of my life ( yes I used to ride my bike to school at the age of 14). The LT has been a good bike and handles very well in curves for such a monster of a bike. But now at 37K miles on the clock, the OE shocks are shot! They were probably gone several K ago. Now I am looking at 2K dollars to replace with aftermarket shocks and I am past due on the 36K service. THe bike is ridden almost every day and maintenance costs are high. (you all can cry me a river!)

So, with all of that in mind, Is the FJR a good buy for the money or do we spend the extra 5 grand JUST to buy the GT? I take Joe for his word (but is it worth 5 extra grand); he is opinionated but he can back what he says!

I can always test ride the GT, the FJR is another story. No shop has the FJR. It is hard to ride pictures!

I hush and read on!

Ok ya short legged cheapy <grin>

is the fjr a good buy, I don;t think anyone could argue thgat it is not a good bike for the money, now we are back to the dollar issue though, you might as well go buy a new Kawi Concourse and spend 8k for one brand new instead of 14k for the FJR or 20k for the new GT I know the prices change daily according to who has bought one and where, I know of no one around these parts or in fl that has got a new FJR out the door brand new for under 14k

You really need to ride them both and make your mind up, I will tell you my opinioin and I mean this

i know who you ride and you ride allot, if you are looking at the fjr, spend the extra and buy the GT, If it fits you, I know it will because we are close to tjhe same height, one of the things I really liked about the GT was how easy it was to get yer feet on the ground, yes I could do that on the fjr, but only after someone pryed my legs off the foot pegs, I have no idea how they say the footpegs are further back on the gt than the FJR , it nmust be the seat is higher up from the pegs on the GT than the FJR, but it is so narrow it easy to reach the ground, BTW the wilbers with all the goodies are only 1500 you can get them MUCH cheaper if yyou do not want adjustable ride height, the additional oil capacity with the additional low speed high speed damping systems, they can be swaped out in hours no problems. it is a Piece of cake to change the shocks on the LT, you do not need to remove the gas tank, or grind cut anything, so spend a grand or so on shocks or 20k ish on the GT GET the GT with the ESA! it is what makes the GT so expensive, but IMHO it is worth every dime extra

Pm if need some additional advice, hehehe or want to meet up today soon

tom

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post #32 of 112 Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 9:56 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkpr1998

I can always test ride the GT, the FJR is another story. No shop has the FJR. It is hard to ride pictures!
Go here.

http://fjrforum.com/forum/

Several unspoken for FJR's have shown up at dealers all over the country. There may be one near you.

Mike
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post #33 of 112 Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 10:44 am
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Wants vs Needs

Contrary to my (obvious to most) troll post earlier, I would never fault someone for buying the GT. I like what they've done with it. Jeff seems to be very happy with his as evidenced by his most recent Excellent Adventure. A great ride with good friends, but not one comparison to anybody elses bike. Hmmmmm...

Quite a few people have ridden the GT and decided that it's not for them, they'll stick with the LT. Holy Smokes! How could that be?!?

It all comes down to wants and needs. The GT has nothing I need over the FJR. For example: I would like to have adjust on the fly suspension, but I damn sure don't need it. There are times that I would like a little more ground clearance, I get it by moving my fat ass off the seat. If that doesn't do it, then I'm already way past being a public nuisance anyway.

What you or the pro testers says about these two bikes really doesn't carry much weight with me. Why? Because your riding style, environment, experience, etc., don't necessarily equate to mine. Joe's opinion means even less because everything Joe owns, thinks or does is the best thing since indoor plumbing, and he used to praise his Ninja with the exact same argument he's bashing now.

I was down at the shop yesterday talking with a few other guys about the GT (they have one on the floor). We agreed that, while the GT is very intriguing, there wasn't enough there to justify the added investment. The FJR was and is the best value in the Sport Touring class, period. Take price out of the question and there would be no GTs sitting on showroom floors anywhere, I'm sure of that. That's not real world though is it?

It all comes down to wants and needs.

I bought the bike that I wanted, and don't need to bash anybody elses choice (seriously or in jest) to justify it.

I agree with the Monk, we're lucky to have so many choices.

Dave Hoogerland

'08 Triumph Tiger 1050 ABS
'02 K1200LTC "The Silver Snoopy" (gone but not forgotten)
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post #34 of 112 Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 11:39 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62
Contrary to my (obvious to most) troll post earlier, I would never fault someone for buying the GT. I like what they've done with it. Jeff seems to be very happy with his as evidenced by his most recent Excellent Adventure. A great ride with good friends, but not one comparison to anybody elses bike. Hmmmmm...

Quite a few people have ridden the GT and decided that it's not for them, they'll stick with the LT. Holy Smokes! How could that be?!?

It all comes down to wants and needs. The GT has nothing I need over the FJR. For example: I would like to have adjust on the fly suspension, but I damn sure don't need it. There are times that I would like a little more ground clearance, I get it by moving my fat ass off the seat. If that doesn't do it, then I'm already way past being a public nuisance anyway.

What you or the pro testers says about these two bikes really doesn't carry much weight with me. Why? Because your riding style, environment, experience, etc., don't necessarily equate to mine. Joe's opinion means even less because everything Joe owns, thinks or does is the best thing since indoor plumbing, and he used to praise his Ninja with the exact same argument he's bashing now.

I was down at the shop yesterday talking with a few other guys about the GT (they have one on the floor). We agreed that, while the GT is very intriguing, there wasn't enough there to justify the added investment. The FJR was and is the best value in the Sport Touring class, period. Take price out of the question and there would be no GTs sitting on showroom floors anywhere, I'm sure of that. That's not real world though is it?

It all comes down to wants and needs.

I bought the bike that I wanted, and don't need to bash anybody elses choice (seriously or in jest) to justify it.

I agree with the Monk, we're lucky to have so many choices.

EGGZACTLY! well said

and I knew it was a troll post, the reason I poked back at cha. All fun and games, good job there Dave!

like you I would never Tell someone what to buy, in all seriousness, when someone I know asks, I tell them first to ride every type, style, make they can possibly ride before buying ANY bike. To _me_ fit is first priority but i'm pretty screwed up physically (reason for the leetle wheel chair on my tag <g>)

Tom

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post #35 of 112 Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 1:43 pm
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'06 Fjr

There was one posted for sale, 0 miles (yes, thats what he said) in College Station, TX, a couple days ago for 12,500.

I have almost 32,000 on my FJR (thought it was coming up on 30 but actually coming up on 32...but who is counting?) and I love it. (If you were anywhere close, I'd let you take it out for a spin.) But I've been riding BMWs for the last 12 years also. My wife loves the LT or I would cheerfully trade it for a new FJR. As it is, I'll keep my '04, see if I can get 100k out of it without a hitch (and I bet I can.) My beef with BMWs is the fact, undeniable, that they are high maintenance and a tad unreliable for what they cost. But like HD riders, the bike is only part of the joy of ownership. Yesterday eight of us gathered in Blanco, TX for b'fast. Friends all, even the new guy was quickly assimilated into 'the brotherhood' of BMW ownership. That is what it has been about for me, moreso than the bike.

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post #36 of 112 Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 5:38 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McRuss
There was one posted for sale, 0 miles (yes, thats what he said) in College Station, TX, a couple days ago for 12,500.

I have almost 32,000 on my FJR (thought it was coming up on 30 but actually coming up on 32...but who is counting?) and I love it. (If you were anywhere close, I'd let you take it out for a spin.) But I've been riding BMWs for the last 12 years also. My wife loves the LT or I would cheerfully trade it for a new FJR. As it is, I'll keep my '04, see if I can get 100k out of it without a hitch (and I bet I can.)

Well heck I have a hitch I've never installed on my Lt, i keep saying i'm going to get a trailer (for about 125k miles now) <grin>

Tom

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post #37 of 112 Old Jul 23rd, 2006, 11:10 pm
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Wink Too Tempting Not to Respond

I read this entire thread and tried REALLY, REALLY hard not to respond, but it was too much for me.

Couple of thoughts.

I subscribe to and read all the major mags, enjoy them, and generally ignore the 'winner' declarations put out by the 'experts' in bike comparos. Why? Because I have concluded over time, carefully reading the articles, that I do not and cannot ride like these folks. I also don't have the same values they have. Example: their passion for 0-60 numbers. At my age, seeing elk cross the road in front of me 30 yards ahead outside of Banff, talk to me about 60 to zero. You can file lean angle differences which become evident at 50 mph in a recommended 25 mph curve under this category as well (let's not argue about 50 or 45; it's the concept I'm discussing).

I still have and ride my FJR, and will probably continue to do so for quite some time. Why? It's a great bike, and extermely reliable. After 6 weeks of ownership, I had 9400+ miles on my GT, which I gave up my LT to get. Why? It wasn't reliability (apologies to those with one or more rear drive failures). After owning a 2001 and 2002 LT, with NO mechanical / electrical failures of any kind (admittedly, I serviced both at a pretty good dealership -IMHO - every 3000 miles), I simply got tired of hauling around that high COG (not weight - my Rocket is not a lightweight, and I've done thousands of miles on a GW). I wanted a lighter Sport Tourer with higher HP, Torque, and a lower COG that I could drive onto gravel overlooks and manuever around small town side streets with a high level of confidence. I have no complaints about the LTs I owned, and loved both for long distance touring.

I bought the FJR when there was no GT, and I considered it to be the best sports tourer made. With the exception of the GT, it still is.

Now we come to the GT vs FJR issue. Comparing the two on looks is a waste of time. It's like asking: "what's the best color"? Owning an '05 heat-fixed FJR, having ridden an '06 FJR, and having almost 10,000 miles so far on the GT, I can say that in my opinion, and my opinion alone, the GT is a superior machine. Having said that, the difference between the two bikes in price plus COST makes the FJR a better VALUE. For the folks who are citing the article, write the MCN folks (or anyone else whose opinion you value) and ask them to pick a winner IRRESPECTIVE of price/cost. Read the article. They'll pick the GT. Then ask which they would select if they just had to have a sport tourer, but had limited means or watched their pennies religiously. The Yamaha is the clear winner under those conditions. BTW, I've had no mechanical / electrical issues with the FJR either.

I continue to wonder about these threads; e.g. FJR vs GT; LT vs GW; Busa vs the new Kaw; especially when they wander into the netherworld of comparative body slams. All of these bikes are great machines. Ride what you like. Ride the bike that, when you think about riding it the night before, you smile (unless you're smiling over, say, a Big Dog, Moto Guzzi, or Heretic, in which case therapy may be your only recourse - just kidding - kind of). Compared to the Yamaha 100, 175 Enduro, and Kaw 400 LTD I started riding on years ago, these machines are all fabulous. If you have to knock the other guy's ride to justify your own choice, you have issues which transcend motorcyle comparos.

As always, just my opinion, and worth exactly what you paid for it.

The Touring Professor

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post #38 of 112 Old Jul 24th, 2006, 3:28 am
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Well said, Prof. And a direct comparison from someone who owns both and also had an LT is exactly what this thread needed to pull us back into the realm of reality.

I've come to similar conclusions, albeit with slightly more emphasis on the over-the-limit perfomance issues. However, I consider having a bike as a necessity. It is my primary transportation, as well as a way to burn of the stresses of work and life.

So while cost is a consideration, it rates pretty low on my list. There is a practicality to be sure, but there is also a passion that must be considered. I owned a Concours, and while it was a great commuter bike, I just didn't find it fun to ride. I know the FJR has a loyal following, and a well-deserved reputation. But that is always wrapped up with phrases like "for the cost" and "value for the money". Even MCN said if cost wasn't an issue, they'd have taken the GT.

So for my needs, the GT seems a better fit. Someone else may come to a different conclusion, which is fine. We each should be riding whatever works best for us, and the plethora of choices makes this possible.

My only real decision now is whether to pick up an '06 GT, or wait for the improvements offered in the '07 model. Tough call, but there are worse problems to be having.

Ken
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post #39 of 112 Old Jul 24th, 2006, 6:01 am Thread Starter
 
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Great post Professor.

To clarify (again), the reason for my LT vs. GW thread was to see how many people in this LT-biased group would defend the Wing. None really. Not until I mentioned it. But many in this LT-biased forum defend the FJR...and rightfully so. It IS a great bike. AS is the Wing. Like you said, it all comes down to which one makes you smile. When I was parked at an overlook on the Cherohala Skyway next to an FJR...when it was time to mount up and head on down the road, I was glad that I was getting on the GT (even though I paid much more). 'Nuff said.
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post #40 of 112 Old Jul 24th, 2006, 11:13 pm
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Dan is my six-million dollar brother in law. He blew through the insurance cap at his company, both hips replaced before he was 50, thrown out of the USN with his bone issues, lots of bicycle crashes and multiple hand and arm surgeries to repair the impact when he hit a van head on while riding his bicycle early in the morning before work. He rode his 2000 R-1100 from Lancaster, PA, with my SO's sister on the back to visit and ride the Grey Goose. After he got back from his GT ride he said. "I can adapt to that power." He and I agree, the GT may not be the best for some underpaid magazine writers, but we kinda like it for what it is and for the feeling of riding pleasure it provides. He was amazed by, "The smoothness of the suspension."

Late this afternoon, as we nearly finished our ride, a man on a scooter pulled up next to us at a red light. He said to Dan, "I'd be riding one of those if I hadn't had my hip replaced." Little did he know..........

Rob Nelson

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post #41 of 112 Old Jul 25th, 2006, 7:28 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fas
the GT may not be the best for some underpaid magazine writers

<sound of Dave banging his head against the wall>

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post #42 of 112 Old Jul 25th, 2006, 7:59 am Thread Starter
 
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<sound of Dave banging his head against the wall>
I like that sound. PLEASE! Don't stop!
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post #43 of 112 Old Jul 25th, 2006, 3:07 pm
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You know I love you guys but you seem to be awful worried about justifying your GT purchases vs. the FJR. Why is that?

Here are some real world reasons why the FJR was the hands down winner for me. Note: these are reasons that mattered to me (and me only):

1) In the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, the two BMW dealers both suck. Period.

2) Cost of ownership on the high end BMWs is substantially higher due to their greater complexity and shorter service intervals. This can certainly be mitigated by doing your own work but it is a fact of life that can be very painful for those that rely on a dealer.

3) I believe the servo assist brakes on the GT are a serious long term liability.

4) I vastly prefer the way the FJR looks.

5) The FJR has a more comfortable seating position for me.

6) The FJR windshield and seat work out of the box for me.

7) IT'S $8,000 DOLLARS CHEAPER! That's an entire second bike for crying out loud!

BTW, I'm crying BS on this lean angle issue. In this class, give me 1,000 mile/day knee comfort over another 5 degrees lean any day.

No go ride for goodness sake!

Todd R.
Grapevine, TX USA

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post #44 of 112 Old Jul 25th, 2006, 4:25 pm
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speaking of which here is a FJR for sale 9500.00

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwhd
You know I love you guys but you seem to be awful worried about justifying your GT purchases vs. the FJR. Why is that?
well I was thinking the fjr guys were trying to justify why they saved 8k? <grin>

here know someone that wants a GOOD fjr that has been taken care of?, this is from a fellow LDR member

I'm sure it has been WELL taken care of!!


Regardless, the FJR is up for sale. $9500 with 8000 miles on it.

It has the following farkles.
- SuperBrace
- three Powerlets
- two Stem Stands (center and left side of bars)
- VistaCruise
- Heavy Polished Throttlemeisters
- USA Touring Grips
- Heli-Bars
- Cee Bailey shield of your choice (I have a few)
- new Avons
- FendaExtender
- a re-padded Cee-Bailey seat.

No dents or scratches.

Ping me off list for more info or pictures if you want them.

You can fly into Allentown PA airport, I'll pick you up or I might be
able to meet you on the highway.

Regards, Matthew

contact - [email protected]

I also have his tele if someone wants to PM me about it

tom

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post #45 of 112 Old Jul 26th, 2006, 7:34 am Thread Starter
 
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My comments below in RED...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwhd
You know I love you guys but you seem to be awful worried about justifying your GT purchases vs. the FJR. Why is that?

Here are some real world reasons why the FJR was the hands down winner for me. Note: these are reasons that mattered to me (and me only):

1) In the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, the two BMW dealers both suck. Period. - That's a shame that a dealer and NOT the bike dictates the sale. But I understand completely how that could happen.

2) Cost of ownership on the high end BMWs is substantially higher due to their greater complexity and shorter service intervals. This can certainly be mitigated by doing your own work but it is a fact of life that can be very painful for those that rely on a dealer. - The GT is better than the LT. Time will tell how much better. All I know is, maintenance cost is less on one BMW than on TWO Jap bikes, per your #7 comment.

3) I believe the servo assist brakes on the GT are a serious long term liability. - That's speculation...hardly a "fact". All that I do know is that, given the choice, I want them. Brakes are just about the most important thing on a bike to me.

4) I vastly prefer the way the FJR looks. - Subjective. Having taken pics of both side by side, I'll keep my GT based solely on looks.

5) The FJR has a more comfortable seating position for me. - And the GT for me. Hey! Whattaya know? A WIN/WIN!

6) The FJR windshield and seat work out of the box for me. - You got me there.

7) IT'S $8,000 DOLLARS CHEAPER! That's an entire second bike for crying out loud! - I've already confronted this issue many times. My heart is not impressed with the cost savings. And let's not forget what the $8K bought me. Better brakes, ESA, more HP, ESA, more torque, a BMW, ESA, and . . . a thicker payment book. That paper costs money ya know! Did I mention ESA?! Oops! I forgot CRUISE CONTROL!!! Oh yea BABY!

BTW, I'm crying BS on this lean angle issue. In this class, give me 1,000 mile/day knee comfort over another 5 degrees lean any day. - I bought the GT to replace a NINJA for crying out loud. The FJR can't even keep up with an LT w/ Wilburs...let alone a NINJA! That is sad. Talk about a straight-line performance-minded bike.

No go ride for goodness sake!
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post #46 of 112 Old Jul 26th, 2006, 7:36 am Thread Starter
 
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You know I love you guys but you seem to be awful worried about justifying your GT purchases vs. the FJR. Why is that?
Because that's what we do in these forums.
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post #47 of 112 Old Jul 26th, 2006, 7:48 am
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Quote:
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My comments below in RED...

oh my, you sure like to poke

I love it! heheheh, that FJR is a good looking bike though. the GT would look much better with me on one than you though

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Tom

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post #48 of 112 Old Jul 26th, 2006, 8:40 am
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we
<thump.....thump.....thump.....thump>

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post #49 of 112 Old Jul 26th, 2006, 9:45 am
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Posts: 167
Thumbs up Baby Lt

I Demoed a GT at the BMW MOA rally and I thought the bike was awesome and very refined. I seriously thought about buying one as I rode it. It raises the K Bike standard for me and may help BMW keep some of their LT-to-Gold Wing refugees in the house, for a little less money.

I heard that the seat sucks but so does the stock seat on my í05 LT. So that hasnít changed. My stock Euro shield is noisy as hell. The GT doesnít have a 6-disc cd player but who needs that when it takes up half of the right bag anyways. Though I havenít researched it fully, I hear GT valve adjustments might be laborious due to the new engineís placement.

Playing with the ESA feature was fun, and now thereís a 6th gear in the transmission. Also, you finally can enjoy the K Bike quality, in a much lighter touring package. Think of it as a Baby LT for a bit less money than the LT. Iím on my second LT and I would definitely consider a GT. Believe it or not I Demoed a Ď06 RT, (never had ridden an RT before), the day before and probably would not consider one of those.

There was a strong number of Ď05/06 GTs at the Rally, so BMW must be doing something right. And finally, the $20,000 motorcycle is becoming more and more common across the different brands & marques. Keep in mind that for some the quality isnít always reflected in the price! The GT has plenty of qualities IMHO!!

GoldRush
'06 K1200LT - As of March 2017!
'05 K1200LT - RIP - (totaled 7/8/08)
Former Yankee Beemer Member
Former BMWMOA Member
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post #50 of 112 Old Jul 26th, 2006, 9:58 am
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Grapevine, TX, USA
Posts: 2,645
Joe, you crack me up as always. I'm really happy you love your GT. Be a shame to pay that much and not like it

FWIW, the lack a viable dealer in DFW was not a deciding factor, but it was a factor. The bike was the deciding factor. The FJR just speaks to me the way the GT does to you. As for the peg dragging, we don't have an issue with that here in N. Tejas all our roads are straight and flat

Todd R.
Grapevine, TX USA

'78 R80/7
'06 FJR1300A

"You will now be thrown into the Obamaucracy. In his belly you will find a new definition of pain and suffering as you are slowly taxed to death over the next four years."
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