PLEASE Go to school on me. - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 17 Old Jun 4th, 2014, 11:00 am Thread Starter
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PLEASE Go to school on me.

Put a new tire on yesterday for a four day trip. Saw that I was looking at four days or thunderstorm so went to move the bike from the garage to the barn. Gently (not gently enough) let the clutch out from 1st to 2nd and it was as if I hit ice. Did a slow motion high side and am looking at $&@?$$ in damage. I'm fine but waiting for the Vicodin to kick in.
Sand it, file it, scuff it, drag it, but don't think that it can't happen.
Pissed in OH!

Diehly

Poke it through, tuck and roll
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post #2 of 17 Old Jun 4th, 2014, 7:15 pm
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diehly View Post
Put a new tire on yesterday for a four day trip. Saw that I was looking at four days or thunderstorm so went to move the bike from the garage to the barn. Gently (not gently enough) let the clutch out from 1st to 2nd and it was as if I hit ice. Did a slow motion high side and am looking at $&@?$$ in damage. I'm fine but waiting for the Vicodin to kick in.
Sand it, file it, scuff it, drag it, but don't think that it can't happen.
Pissed in OH!
Hey John, good to hear from you. Sorry it had to be under these circumstances, however.

I don't think I can teach you anything, but maybe there's a small silver lining here: your experience can be a sober reminder to the rest of us.

This was on your Gold Wing, right?

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #3 of 17 Old Jun 5th, 2014, 9:39 am Thread Starter
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

Yes Howard it was the GL

Diehly

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post #4 of 17 Old Jun 5th, 2014, 11:46 am
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diehly View Post
Did a slow motion high side and am looking at $&@?$$ in damage.
I am trying to picture this but don't understand why new tires would cause you to high side?

Gerhard
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post #5 of 17 Old Jun 5th, 2014, 12:22 pm
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

Also little puzzled by HighSide slip also. Too late now, but I have always made it a standard practice to go over new tires with scotchbright just to get it a little scuffed in and remove some of the stuff manufacturers put on tires before shipping.

Phil in Marin
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post #6 of 17 Old Jun 8th, 2014, 8:56 pm Thread Starter
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

Gerhard and Phil, this took me by surprise as well. I too have always taken a file, and while the bike was on the centerstand, started it and put it first gear while I run the face of the file over the surface of the tire just to get the shiney surface off.
At this end of a long lane there is a slight dogleg and as I was leaning in that dogleg I gently shifted from 1st to 2nd. As if I were on ice, the rear end violently swung around and when it bit, I kept going.
Sure am sore and hope that someone can learn from my mistake.
John

Diehly

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post #7 of 17 Old Jun 8th, 2014, 9:23 pm
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

Dag gone John, this is sure a terrible way to hear from a friend. Hope things get straightened out for you.

Don Smith
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post #8 of 17 Old Jun 9th, 2014, 9:55 am
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

I am so sorry to hear this. You are not the first friend who has told the exact same story with the exact same results. It's scary to put on new rubber. I usually do it just before a long trip, too.

I have always ridden very cautiously on new tires for the first 50-100 miles, keeping the bike as vertical as possible, then gradually slaloming the bike on the freeway to get the edges. I have never "prepared" new tires, but I am rethinking that now.

Heal quickly, and thanks for the reminder!
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post #9 of 17 Old Jun 9th, 2014, 2:04 pm
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

Sorry to hear of your troubles, and glad that any injury was mostly limited to your pride. There was an interesting discussion about tire break-in over at the K1600 forum, which I've copied below.

Some interesting reading on tire break-in. It's heat input that's needed to break-in a tire. For cars, quickly turning the steering wheel left and right is the way to get heat into the tires. On a motorcycle swerving left and right does very little to heat the tires. On a motorcycle you need to brake hard and accelerate hard to get them to flex and get heat into them.

More info (found on the Web):

The new issue of Sport Rider has an *excellent* (but short) article on tires, with an interview of the manager for the Pirelli Global motorcycle tire program.

Some myths/facts that he pointed out:

1) Mold release is no longer used by any major manufacturer. This stopped years ago. Today, they only use mold release on the SIDEWALL to ensure that all the little numbers, text, and company logo come out flawless.

2) "scrubbing" in tires is a myth and completely useless. There is NO coating on the tire surface that needs to be "scrubbed" or worn off at all. New tire break-in is ALL about tempartures. That little wiggle you see riders do leaving the paddock, or heading out to the twisties is 110% useless and gives false confidence. It does almost nothing to help prepare the tire to grip.

3) New tire break-in is all about temps. A new tire should be at 165F for at least 10 minutes before you push it, and it should be at that temp for an hour before you really trust it. If using a tire warmer, he recommends one hour at 165F before you hit the track. If not, he recommends about 10 laps of a 2 mile circuit before you can trust the tires. On the street, figure about 20 minutes of hard riding. The ENTIRE purpose of this as new tire break-in, is to get the carcass warm enough that the oils and chemicals in the rubber leech out completely.

4) If you are interested in warming up a non new tire for spirited riding, the same basic rules as #3 apply, but in this case its about getting the tire carcass to the right elasticity, not about getting chemicals out of the rubber.

5) The best way to break in or warm up a tire is as follows: Hard acceleration and braking in a straight line, with the bike NOT leaned over. He said that this should get the maximum amount of heat into the tire with the shortest possible effort (and its probably safest too).

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #10 of 17 Old Jun 9th, 2014, 4:45 pm
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

Ken, that's the kind of info that needs to be in the Hall of Wisdom. (Maybe it already is; I haven't looked.)

An unintended consequence is that it could reduce some discussion in the tire threads.

Howard Schisler
2015 BMW K1600GTL
2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #11 of 17 Old Jun 9th, 2014, 5:07 pm
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

"1) Mold release is no longer used by any major manufacturer. This stopped years ago. Today, they only use mold release on the SIDEWALL to ensure that all the little numbers, text, and company logo come out flawless."


I suppose it's possible that mold release is no longer used on the tread, but don't tell these guys....

http://www.chemtrend.com/application...de_tire_paints

If you had some mold release left on the tread, it would get real slick with the addition of some water or on a smooth surface. Same goes for any mounting lube that may have contaminated the tread during mounting.


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post #12 of 17 Old Jun 21st, 2014, 8:37 pm
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

Then there's the little matter of whatever one used to lube the bead. All of that stuff is slippery.
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post #13 of 17 Old Jun 21st, 2014, 9:37 pm
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

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Originally Posted by racer7 View Post
Then there's the little matter of whatever one used to lube the bead. All of that stuff is slippery.
You're supposed to keep that stuff on the bead, not on the tread . . .

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #14 of 17 Old Jul 4th, 2014, 2:45 pm
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

For sure
But I'll bet all of us have seen mounted tires with the telltale little traces on the sidewall that some lube got "elsewhere".
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post #15 of 17 Old Jul 4th, 2014, 3:44 pm
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

There is something on the new tires. I mount a lot of tires in my shop. My driveway is crushed granite stone & when they leave you can hear the rocks hitting the fenders & see the rocks being flung in the air. I don't see that after just a few miles of riding with new tires.

I work with someone that had a new rear tire installed on his Sportster last week at the HD dealer & when the mechanic took it for a ride he high sided it leaving the parking lot.

Dave Selvig
2004 Black LT
2000 Canon Red LT



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post #16 of 17 Old Sep 3rd, 2014, 6:54 pm Thread Starter
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

Ken, I'll buy everything on your list except #2. All you have to do is look at the before and after when you run a file over the surface. The ONLY time I did not do it I went down and that's been a lot of tires and a lot of bikes.

Diehly

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post #17 of 17 Old Sep 3rd, 2014, 8:20 pm
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Re: PLEASE Go to school on me.

Take it up with the original source, the Pirelli Global Motorcycle Tire Program Manager . . .

Ken
Pacific NorthWet
'13 Dark Graphite Metallic K16GTLD, 24K miles
'09 Magnesium Beige Metallic K13GT, 63K miles
'03 Anthracite Metallic K12LTC, 66K miles
'02 Mauve Metallic K12LTC, 106K miles and sold
BMWLT#143, IBA# 366, MOA# 111996, SCMA# 24032


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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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