Sloppy service from Leo's South in MSP - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 15 Old Nov 17th, 2007, 8:25 pm Thread Starter
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Angry Sloppy service from Leo's South in MSP

I had my K1200LT up in Minnesota last week (Nov 7) while on a 2300 mile trip. I normally change my own oil in both the LT and the RT, but as I was travelling without any support, I chose to have the oil and trans fluid changed by a dealer. A friend suggested Leo's South, so I made an appointment and dropped the bike off for an oil change (providing my own Mobil 1) and a transmission fluid change, telling them I wanted BMW synthetic 75W90 in the gear box. (After all, GL5, or 80W90 is what the Maintenance manual calls for). The service was done, along with a few other things (checked my brake pads and cleaned my radio display which had clouded pretty badly) and when I got back to my bike, I found a full half quart of oil setting pretty on the saddlebag. Usually, I put the full 3.8 quarts in the bike, but I didn't think much of it other than I'd have to check it soon and add to it.

The next day found me driving south and stopping 73 miles north of St. Louis. After unloading my gear, I checked the oil fully expecting it to be low in the sight glass. Much to my surprise, the sight glass was completely full with no air bubble at all; and as an added surprise, the oil was black! Wow, what's going on? The next morning, after sitting all night in 40 degree weather, the sight glass was still full and no air was in sight. Placing the bike on the side stand did put the oil at the bottom of the sight glass, but it is still over full. Now, mind you, I don't think the oil being this full is harmful, or even a bad thing, but I change the oil 2 or 3 times a year and I don't get the oil level this high unless I put in the full 4 quarts. So, why is my oil level so high? And, why is my oil already black after only 500 miles? This is not normal for my LT. I am suspect that my oil filter did not get changed. Dan, the service manager, emphatically states that it was changed, and when I asked why the oil level is unusually high, not to mention very dark for fresh oil, he could only surmise that perhaps all the old oil wasn't drained out. Either way, it was a crappy oil change.

After getting home, I checked my reciept for my $135.00 stop to find that I was only charged for filter; not a crush washer for the drain plug or an O ring for the filter cover. My local dealer charges for a filter kit when they do an LT oil change. Also, after closer examination, Leo's also filled my transmission with 75W140. Now, my purpose here is not to start yet another thread on oil viscosity, but rather to lament on a dealer servicing my bike with oil I did not want. I expressly asked when I made the service appointment, and when I dropped the bike off if they had BMW 75W90 synthetic. When I explained to Dan (service manager) that the transmission oil was not what I wanted, he told me that that's what they use, and don't have any issues with it. When I told him that my service manual calls for 80W90, my local dealer's master tech calls for 80W90, and even Paul Glaves has written more than a few articles about using the proper weight oil in your BMW, Dan was unimpressed and stuck to his guns.

The bottom line: I paid an alleged BMW dealership to perform a service. I don't mind paying $135.00 for this service, that is not my complaint. My complaint is that I firmly believe this service was not performed correctly and to my clear instructions.

Thank you for letting me rant, and I assure you that I will not be using Leo's service at anytime in the future. I caution anyone else that may be thinking of going there to give it careful reconsideration.

BTW, this is the service department that told me, emphatically, that BMW clearly calls for oil to be changed every 3K miles. I told the tech that the service interval in both my RT and LT manual called for a 6K service interval. I was told that the oil must be changed between each service interval. That is true if the bike is ridden in cold temperatures and in mostly stop and go driving, but when I put 15K on the LT and 20K on the RT each year, I don't think that I fall under that caveat.

Just food for thought.
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post #2 of 15 Old Nov 17th, 2007, 8:49 pm
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I am staring at 2 BMW gear oil bottles. BMW Hypoid Gear oil SAE 80W90 GL5 is the non-synthetic oil, and BMW SAE 75W140 super synthetic gear oil is a better choice, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. I am surprised they did use the Mobil 1 you provided. This is akin of bringing your own eggs to the restaurant for the chef to cook them for you. Most places won't allow it!!!
I am also not surprised that they did not replace the crush washer nor the O-ring for the filter cover. Many of us no longer remove the drain plug to drain the oil, we simply remove the oil filter cover, and the O-ring can be re-used if not damaged. So I wouldn't worry about this either.
On the other hand I am more concerned about the fact that the oil is already dark and a bit over level, confirming what the service manager told you: maybe all the old oil was not drained. That sounds a bit unprofessional to me. Although again this is not too bad of an issue.
As far as changing the oil every 3K while the manual says 6K, it is more a personal comfort level. Running synthetic I go for 6K between changes or sooner if planning a long trip. But that is just me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pushin9s
I had my K1200LT up in Minnesota last week (Nov 7) while on a 2300 mile trip. I normally change my own oil in both the LT and the RT, but as I was travelling without any support, I chose to have the oil and trans fluid changed by a dealer. A friend suggested Leo's South, so I made an appointment and dropped the bike off for an oil change (providing my own Mobil 1) and a transmission fluid change, telling them I wanted BMW synthetic 75W90 in the gear box. (After all, GL5, or 80W90 is what the Maintenance manual calls for). The service was done, along with a few other things (checked my brake pads and cleaned my radio display which had clouded pretty badly) and when I got back to my bike, I found a full half quart of oil setting pretty on the saddlebag. Usually, I put the full 3.8 quarts in the bike, but I didn't think much of it other than I'd have to check it soon and add to it.

The next day found me driving south and stopping 73 miles north of St. Louis. After unloading my gear, I checked the oil fully expecting it to be low in the sight glass. Much to my surprise, the sight glass was completely full with no air bubble at all; and as an added surprise, the oil was black! Wow, what's going on? The next morning, after sitting all night in 40 degree weather, the sight glass was still full and no air was in sight. Placing the bike on the side stand did put the oil at the bottom of the sight glass, but it is still over full. Now, mind you, I don't think the oil being this full is harmful, or even a bad thing, but I change the oil 2 or 3 times a year and I don't get the oil level this high unless I put in the full 4 quarts. So, why is my oil level so high? And, why is my oil already black after only 500 miles? This is not normal for my LT. I am suspect that my oil filter did not get changed. Dan, the service manager, emphatically states that it was changed, and when I asked why the oil level is unusually high, not to mention very dark for fresh oil, he could only surmise that perhaps all the old oil wasn't drained out. Either way, it was a crappy oil change.

After getting home, I checked my reciept for my $135.00 stop to find that I was only charged for filter; not a crush washer for the drain plug or an O ring for the filter cover. My local dealer charges for a filter kit when they do an LT oil change. Also, after closer examination, Leo's also filled my transmission with 75W140. Now, my purpose here is not to start yet another thread on oil viscosity, but rather to lament on a dealer servicing my bike with oil I did not want. I expressly asked when I made the service appointment, and when I dropped the bike off if they had BMW 75W90 synthetic. When I explained to Dan (service manager) that the transmission oil was not what I wanted, he told me that that's what they use, and don't have any issues with it. When I told him that my service manual calls for 80W90, my local dealer's master tech calls for 80W90, and even Paul Glaves has written more than a few articles about using the proper weight oil in your BMW, Dan was unimpressed and stuck to his guns.

The bottom line: I paid an alleged BMW dealership to perform a service. I don't mind paying $135.00 for this service, that is not my complaint. My complaint is that I firmly believe this service was not performed correctly and to my clear instructions.

Thank you for letting me rant, and I assure you that I will not be using Leo's service at anytime in the future. I caution anyone else that may be thinking of going there to give it careful reconsideration.

BTW, this is the service department that told me, emphatically, that BMW clearly calls for oil to be changed every 3K miles. I told the tech that the service interval in both my RT and LT manual called for a 6K service interval. I was told that the oil must be changed between each service interval. That is true if the bike is ridden in cold temperatures and in mostly stop and go driving, but when I put 15K on the LT and 20K on the RT each year, I don't think that I fall under that caveat.

Just food for thought.

Gilles & Kathy
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post #3 of 15 Old Nov 17th, 2007, 9:34 pm
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I too do not think Leo's South has the sharpest staff members on the planet. However, as far as your oil change complaints, I personally wouldn't have gotten upset about any of these issues. My oil is fairly dark in the sightglass very soon after engine run but that is Castrol 20W50 and I can't remember how the Mobil 1 looked right after a change when I was using it. On the fullness, to be sure, I would rock the bike a bit while on the centerstand on a level surface to see if the top of the level comes into view. Sounds like it would since when you are on the sidestand the level is in the lower portion of the glass, which is exactly where it should be.

Your other complaints are more valid, they should be able to give you the fluids you requested or at least tell you up front so you can make other arrangements.

Otherwise, you're right, I wouldn't recommend anyone to have service done at Leo's.

John

2004 - LT - Anthracite
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post #4 of 15 Old Nov 17th, 2007, 9:53 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_gg
On the other hand I am more concerned about the fact that the oil is already dark and a bit over level, confirming what the service manager told you: maybe all the old oil was not drained. That sounds a bit unprofessional to me. Although again this is not too bad of an issue.
Ole Toad gets an oil change every 3K, and with a new filter cover O-ring. I don't use the drain plug - never have. Most oil changes are performed in my storage unit, which is approximately 8 miles from the casa. I can tell you that once I arrive home, after the oil change, the oil color in the sight glass will be dark. It takes *very leetle* old oil to taint the color of the new stuff, once everythang gets circulating. And it doesn't take long to get circulating. And even using the drain plug for draining, there will still be some old oil laying around in the galleys and nooks/crannies, that will at some point, merge with the new.
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post #5 of 15 Old Nov 18th, 2007, 9:06 am
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Sorry to hear about your misadventure at Leo's. I wish I would have known you would be in the area. I have a lift and all the tools so you could have done the work yourself or with my help. I normally have all the supplies on hand to do the service along with a coffee pot and adult beverages if needed. We could have completed your service the way you wanted it done. I am only 20 miles west of I 35. Next time you are going to be in the area, give me a shout. I was not surprised at the attitude they have at Leo's. When we were looking for a K1200lt I stopped in there and they treated me like it was a chore to have someone talk to me about LT's. It was over 1/2 hour of getting shuffled from one person to another before I ended up with Mr a--hole who really wanted to stay on the phone about where they were going for supper, rather than work with me on a cash deal. I asked him if I was bother him and if I should come back at a better time and he said later that day would be better. Needless to say, that was the end of my visit. The best part is that I ended up taking the extra effort to go to Judson cycle and being treated like family. Maybe it is the "new metro" attitude, that there are always another customer just waiting to spend their money here at Leo's.

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post #6 of 15 Old Nov 23rd, 2007, 2:16 pm
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Took my LT to Leo's in November of 03' to get a couple things done prior to the warranty expiring in 2/04. (80 mile, 12 degree trip up there--the only thing that got cold were my feet)

First the service writer asks ME where the vin# is...

When we went in to write the repair order I asked, since it was almost the end of November and I don't have a trailer, do they have any kind of storage program in case the weather gets too bad? The guy points at a sign that says "bikes left over 10 days will be charged 25$/day storage" and says "that's our storage plan". Nice. Friendly...

They call to tell me the bike is done--timely I think--within a couple weeks anyway. It's supposed to be 45-50 degrees the next day. Wonderful.

Go back to service and they give me the repair order/bill--680$ I figure the amount is on there for their own records. I go to the cashier--she tells me that will be 680$--I tell her it's warranty work.

She goes and gets the service manager. The first thing he asks me...Is it under warranty??? Resisting the urge to slap him--I tell him yes, until February of next year. He disappears for quite awhile--I'm sure running it through the computer--they must have finally found the vin...comes back and tells me okay, however, the vanity mirror is probably not covered so don't be surprised if they send a bill. I tell him to look at the repair order where it says "only replace vanity mirror if a warrantied item" He turns and without thank you, kiss my ass or anything else walks away.

The bike is filthy. The ride home was great.

About 2 weeks later my caller ID comes up Leo's--Of course I'm thinking they are partially redeeming themselves with a call to see how my service turned out--there I go thinking again. The lady tells me my odometer has apparently been tampered with as the BMW computer keeps kicking the bike out as invalid mileage. Well come to find out she is trying to send it through as 950 miles when it should be 9500 miles...

Although the repairs were fine I will never go back there--EVERYONE I dealt with had a horrible attitude.

200 miles to Nick's for service--no problem.

Brian Heller
2001 LTC-Pacific Blue
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post #7 of 15 Old Nov 23rd, 2007, 6:46 pm
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Brian,

You have 2 other dealers in Minnesota that are closer than 200 miles. I use Judson Cycle in Lake Crystal (nicer roads for you)and my brother in law uses Moon Motors in Monticello. We both have been treated very well by these companies. If you go to judson don't bring your credit card. They only take checks or cash. Give me a PM if you are ever in the area.

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post #8 of 15 Old Nov 24th, 2007, 9:38 am
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Anyone try Hopkins HItching Post? I have no problem riding a little longer to Moon Motorsports if the service is good and they know what they are doing. I'm thinking They may not be as busy as the Hitching Post, and would not be as rushed with my bike to move on to the millions of bikes they are servicing. They are also a Honda dealership.
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post #9 of 15 Old Nov 24th, 2007, 1:13 pm
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I bought my LT from Leo's before I knew better. I've completely lost all faith in them for the way they do business. I told them once that I really wanted to pay them if they would only complete the work. Please let me spend some money, just get the work done. If in MN go to Judson, they are what a bike shop should be.

Tim Reed
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post #10 of 15 Old Nov 27th, 2007, 10:16 am
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I am a friend of Ron's of Judson Cycle Sales in Lake Crystal and I would like to add that he and his crew are the best BMW, Guzzi mechanics for a long ways!! I have known Ron for 30 years, he is not always the lowest priced for bikes...but...as far as anything mechanical...you can't do better.
Once you see his little old fashioned shop you will understand why he can't sell bikes as cheap. Leo's and the others undercut him by $2-300and they loose the deal. But...they all bring them there for the service on their new bikes. He just shakes his head and says,"How long do they think I can just do the mechanical repairs and live off that?"

He runs a great shop! He is a dying breed!! All riders should be aware that BMW is trying to get rid of him because he won't build a fancy shop! I guaranty you if that happens there will be a lot of folks that will miss him!

Please support the small guys!! I too am a small business owner. I own a small independent Golf store and the big Corporate stores are killing us too!

The one thing that nobody gets...once the corporate stores get rid of the small guys...they then can set the prices because they have effectively eliminated competition!

Just for the record I am not affiliated in any way to Judson Cycle sales!
Just an interested biker that doesn't want to loose a good dealer!

Give him a chance to earn your business.

GolfGuy

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post #11 of 15 Old Nov 29th, 2007, 10:31 am
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We are quite fortunate in Minnesota of having our choice of 4 BMW dealers.
Judson's in Lake Crystal; Moon Motorcycles in Monticello; Leo's in Lakeville; and Hitching Post in Hopkin's. I have been to all 4 at one time or another. The first 2 have, by far, the best reputation. I too have had problems with Leo's (even though I think Dale is one of the best mech's around) and will only go back to get a tire changed or a part I need quick as they are the closest. I concur with the above posts on Judson's. If I have the time available they would be my #1 choice.

Tim Frederick
Woodbury, MN
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post #12 of 15 Old Jan 13th, 2008, 2:05 am
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When I got a K110LT many years ago the previous owner said I should go to Moon Motors. It's an hour away but what the heck. Sadly, the last time I went there I requested they replace the battery and do a number of other things. I told them I don't mind, please replace the battery and yeah I'll happily pay.

Went to pick it up and several of the things I offered to pay them to repair they "didn't have time for". Also, they didn't believe the battery needed replacing. Two days later at a Rally I sat all day, a 78 degree windless day in southern Wisconsin as my bike wouldn't start and had to sit on a charger for maybe 4 hours before it would.

So Moon, I bring you a bike, do I have to beg you to do what I brought to you to do? Pass.

Now I use Leos. Um. They aren't so great. I like Dale, I like Leos. But they aren't so great. I call Leos "Moon South" and Moon Motors "Leos North". YMMV.

I stopped on a long trip at A&S once. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. They took my money, and did everything I asked for. Refreshing.
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post #13 of 15 Old Jan 13th, 2008, 8:43 pm
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Just happened to be surfing and read the posting.

Now wait a second here. There ain't no way to get the oil filter out without draining the oil, even if you don't want to. It comes out, well most of it when the oil filter access cover comes off.

Sounds like a pretty unprofessional group to me.

B D R
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post #14 of 15 Old Jan 14th, 2008, 9:37 am
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I was thinking the same thing. It always seems to me that it takes FOREVER to get the last few ounces out. I alway have to wick it out with a rag.

For sure, they rushed the job, left some dirty oil in place and filled it up.

Experiences like this always makes me thankful I do my own!



Quote:
Originally Posted by gunny
Just happened to be surfing and read the posting.

Now wait a second here. There ain't no way to get the oil filter out without draining the oil, even if you don't want to. It comes out, well most of it when the oil filter access cover comes off.

Sounds like a pretty unprofessional group to me.

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post #15 of 15 Old Sep 3rd, 2009, 10:31 am
 
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Re: Sloppy service from Leo's South in MSP

It could have been way worse! You could of had to deal with Randy or Gerry...
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