Nelson Mandela has died at 95 - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 15 Old Dec 5th, 2013, 4:00 pm Thread Starter
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Nelson Mandela has died at 95

1 courageous (27 years in prison) and humble man who Positively impacted not only South Africa but the world.

RIP,
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post #2 of 15 Old Dec 5th, 2013, 8:41 pm
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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at 95

Yes the world has lost a larger than life hero. I guess he has achieved all the immortality that we could ever hope for, he will live in the memories of the world.

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post #3 of 15 Old Dec 6th, 2013, 2:01 pm
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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at 95

Prayers and condolences to the family.
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post #4 of 15 Old Dec 6th, 2013, 4:17 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at 95

Interesting take here with links - never new some of this history:

"I find it ironic that the same people who cheered when Ghadalfi was killed, who was known for minor terrorism compared to this man, now mourn for someone who was merely a well spoken communist Villain that because he "freed" blacks, is in some way a hero.
I wonder if all those who lost their ability to Farm as their crops were raised and white farmers had their necks slit felt the same way. Or are they merely a victim of his movement against the horrible whites who were only trying to make a living?
How about his own people whom faced the brunt of his own violence?

He murdered his own people, innocent people and was not remorseful in his OWN BOOK about his earlier terrorist days.



I am not in 100 percent agreement with this article, but not even His own movement denies what he did. Desmon Tutu wanted justice but the world ignored him. Do any of you actually know how Tutu became famous?
Hint it was from shielding a innocent percent from one of Mandelas Lynch Mobs.

http://www.southafricaproject.info/m...andlegacy.html


It is often said that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, however, this usually means that the other man has been less than fastidious in his choice of hero, or that the “freedom fighter” in question was on the crowd pleasing side.
On the 27th of June, London's Hyde Park played host to a concert in honour of Nelson Mandela's 90th birthday and as expected it received wall to wall coverage from a star struck and worshipping media, who continue to laud Mandela as one of the greatest, or indeed the greatest, heroes of our time.
The beaming old man appeared on stage in one of his trademark multi-coloured shirts and cheerily acknowledge the cheers of the adoring crowd, most of whom have been taught to believe in his sainthood since their first days in primary school, which, for many of them, will have occurred around the same time their hero walked free from Robben Island.
The unquestioning belief in Mandela's universally admired saintliness was again on display in the gushing media coverage and by the unending line of politicians and dignitaries from presidents to Prime ministers who queued up to genuflect before him and sing his praises. It is a brave politician or journalist who would dare to question the godliness of this legend and consummate showman, and hence no such questions were raised, nor were his much vaunted “achievements” subjected to any objective scrutiny.
No matter how many speeches are given or how many news articles are written, it will be a long time if ever before the truth about Mandela is told.

In fact the truth about Mandela is so hidden in mythology and misinformation that most know nothing about him prior to Robben island, and those who do tend to exercise a form of self censorship, designed to bolster the myth whilst consigning uncomfortable facts into the mists of history.

For most people all they know about Mandela, prior to his release in 1990, was that he had spent 27 years in prison and was considered by many on the left at the time (and almost everyone now) to be a political prisoner. However, Mandela was no Aung San Suu Kyi, he was not an innocent, democratically elected leader, imprisoned by an authoritarian government.

Mandela was the terrorist leader of a violent terrorist organisation, the ANC (African National Congress) which was responsible for many thousands of, mostly black, deaths. The ANC's blood spattered history is frequently ignored, but reminders occasionally pop up in the most embarrassing places, indeed as recently as this month the names of Nelson Mandela and most of the ANC remained on the US government's terrorist watch list along with al-Queda, Hezbollah and the Tamil Tigers. Of course the forces of political correctness are rushing to amend that embarrassing reminder from the past. However, Mandela's name was not on that list by mistake, he was there because of his Murderous past.

Before I am accused of calumny, it should be noted that Mandela does not seek to hide his past, in his autobiography “the long walk to Freedom” he casually admits “signing off” the 1983 Church Street bombing carried out by the ANC and killing 19 innocent people whilst injuring another 200.

It is true that Mandela approved that massacre and other ANC killings from his prison cell, and there is no evidence that he personally killed anyone but the same could be said about Stalin or Hitler, and the violent history of the ANC, the organisation he led is not in question.

According to the Human Rights Commission it is estimated that during the Apartheid period some 21,000 people were killed, however both the UN Crimes against Humanity commission and South Africa's own Truth and Reconciliation Commission are in agreement that in those 43 years the South African Security forces killed a total of 518 people. The rest, (some 92%) were accounted for by Africans killing Africans, many by means of the notorious and gruesome practice of necklacing whereby a car tyre full of petrol is placed around a victim's neck and set alight. This particularly cruel form of execution was frequently carried out at the behest of the ANC with the enthusiastic support of Mandela's demonic wife Winnie.

The brutal reappearance of the deadly necklace in recent weeks is something I shall reluctantly focus upon later.

Given that so much blood was on the hands of his party, and, as such, the newly appointed government, some may conclude that those who praised Madela's mercy and forgiveness, when the Truth and Reconciliation tribunal set up after he came to power, to look into the Apartheid years, did not include a provision for sanctions, were being deliberately naive.

Such nativity is not uncommon when it comes to the adoring reporting of Nelson Madela, and neither is the great leader himself rarely shy of playing up his image of fatherly elder statesman and multi-purpose paragon. However, in truth, the ANC's conscious decision to reject a policy of non-violence, such as that chosen by Gandhi, in their struggle against the white government, had left them, and by extension, their leader, with at least as much blood on their hands as their one time oppressors, and this fact alone prevented them from enacting the revenge which might otherwise have been the case.

As the first post Apartheid president of South Africa it would, be unfair if not ludicrous to judge Mandela entirely on the basis of events before he came to power, and in any event there is many a respected world leader or influential statesman with a blood stained past so let us now examine Nelson Mandela's achievements, and the events which have occurred in South Africa in the 14 short years since he took power in following the post Apartheid election in 1994, and the new South Africa which he created after coming to power on a surge of worldwide optimism and hope in 1994, when, following the end of Apartheid, he and his followers promised a new dawn for what became termed the Rainbow Nation.
Today South Africa stands out as one of the most dangerous and crime ridden nations on Earth which is not actively at War. In 2001, only seven years after the end of Apartheid, whilst the city of Amsterdam in the Netherlands with 5,6 murders per 100,000 population was declared the "murder capitol of Europe", Johannesburg, with 61.2 murders per 100,00 population and remains the world's top murder city.

In South Africa as a whole, the murder rate is seven times that of America, in terms of rape the rate is ten times as high and includes the ugly phenomenon of child rape, one of the few activities in which South Africa is now a world leader. If you don't believe me, you can read what Oprah Winfrey has to say about it here.

All other forms of violent crime are out of control, and Johannesburg is among the top world cities for muggings and violent assault, a fact seldom mentioned in connection with the 2010 World Cup which is scheduled to be hosted in South Africa.

As always with black violence the primary victims are their fellow blacks, however, the rape, murder and violent assault of whites is a daily event, and there is more ...

As with the Matabeleland massacres, news of which the BBC, together with much of the world media suppressed for twenty years to protect their one time hero, Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe, another secret genocide is being ignored by the world media, the genocide of white Boer farmers, thousands of whom have been horribly tortured to death in their homes since the end of Apartheid. Anyone who clicks on this link should we warned that it includes some very gruesome images as the savagery of these attacks belie the authorities attempts to dismiss them as nothing more than a "crime wave".

Given that it is now all but illegal in South Africa to report the race of either victim or the perpetrator of a crime (unless the perpetrator is white and the victim black) and as modern South Africa's official crime statistics are notoriously massaged, it is impossible to know the exact numbers of farm murders that have taken place. Many reliable sources estimate the figure as close to 3,000, but even if we take the more conservative figure of 1,600 quoted in the politically correct South African press (but not quoted at all in ours) this is three times the numbers killed by the South African security forces over a period of 43 years, and which the UN calls a crime against humanity.

To put this in perspective, the population of South Africa is 47 million, (13 million less than Britain despite its far greater land mass) of which the 4.3 million whites account for 9.1%, about 1% less than the immigrant population of Britain. Can you imagine the outcry if 1,600 (let alone 3,000) members of a minority community in Britain were tortured to death by the native population?.

Yet when the victims are white, there is hardly a peep in the South African press and silence from the international media. Compare this to when a white youth is the killer, such as in the case of Johan Nel, who shot three Africans, a story which became instant world wide news with the predictable screams of racism and machete wielding mobs baying for his blood.

(And they accuse us of hate?!! Don't such people nauseate themselves with their hypocrisy?!)

Crime aside, Mandela and his ANC inherited the strongest economy in Africa, indeed, despite economic sanctions, South Africa was still one of the richest world nations, and indeed initially there was a brief post Apartheid boom, resulting from the lifting of sanctions and due to the fact that until affirmative action forced most of the whites out of their jobs to be replaced by under qualified blacks, those who had built South Africa were still in place.

However, any optimism was to be short lived. Now, after just 14 years of rule by Mandela and his grim successor Mbeke, corruption is rife, the country is beset with power cuts and the infrastructure is crumbling.

The nation's great cities like Durban and Johannesburg, which could once rival the likes of Sydney, Vancouver and San Francisco, had descended in to decaying crime ridden slums within a decade.

And in recent months we have seen the so called Rainbow nations ultimate humiliation, as xenophobic anti immigration violence spreads across the country. (“xenophobic” is what the media call racism when blacks do it) As poverty and unemployment explodes and is exacerbated by the floods of immigrants flooding in to escape the even more advanced Africanisation of the rest of the country, the mobs turn on those they blame for stealing their jobs, their homes, and their women.

Thus the cycle turns, and, like watching some barbaric version of “back to the future", on the news we see exactly the same scenes we saw on our televisions twenty years ago, wrecked buildings, burning vehicles, mobs brandishing machetes, axes and knives hacking at everything and everyone which comes within their reach. Most horrific of all, we see the return of that most savage symbol of African brutality, the necklace where, to the cheers of a blood thirsty crowd, some poor trembling soul, with a tire around his neck, is dragged from his home and set alight, exactly as all those other poor souls were set alight throughout the Apartheid years, when we were told it was all the evil white man's fault.

As nothing else the return of the necklace exposes the failure of Mandela's revolution, and those who fought for him should weep.

Under Apartheid, blacks and whites went to separate hospitals but they received world class health care, whatever their colour, now the facilities are collapsing or non-existent. Black children went to different schools than white children, but they received an education, something which is now a privileged luxury. When they grew up, their bosses may have been white, but they had jobs and a living wage, as the recent violence shows us, such security is but a memory for most South Africans.

Eighteen years after Nelson and Winnie made their historic walk towards the cameras, and 14 years, since Mandela assumed power on a tide of optimism, a once proud South Africa slides like a crumbling, crime ridden, wreck towards a precipice created though greed, corruption and incompetence.

For all his gleaming smiles, grandfatherly hand gestures, and folksy sound bites, tomorrow night, when crowd cheers the retired terrorist in the gaudy shirt, they would do best not to focus too closely upon his much admired legacy, as they might just find that the Xhosan Emperor has no clothes. For Nelson Mandela's lasting achievement is that, in the face of a world wishing him well, he, and the party he leads, have shown the world that, for all its flaws, Apartheid was a more benign system than what replaced it, and that the average South African was immeasurably better off under the hated white rule than they are under the alternative which black rule has created.

That is quite an achievement, even for a living legend.


And for those looking for a more watered down "legitimate" media spin on what happened.



http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/13/wo...trocities.html




Party Led By Mandela Now Owns Up To Atrocities


By SUZANNE DALEY
Published: May 13, 1997

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South Africa's governing party admitted today that it used torture, executions, and land mines during its fight against apartheid, opening a new chapter in this country's efforts to come to terms with its past.
Senior officials of the African National Congress also said they could have done far more to stop the gruesome practice in the black townships of ''necklacing'' people suspected of cooperating with the South African security forces. Such people were pinned inside a car tire, doused in gasoline, set on fire and left to die.
Party officials had long resisted appearing before the commission, saying their actions were excusable because they had been fighting a ''just war.'' Today's testimony before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission represented a major step toward holding the winners in the struggle against the white apartheid Government accountable for their share of atrocities.
The testimony came after more than 300 members of the Congress, including most Cabinet ministers and Deputy President Thabo Mbeki, who has been designated by the Congress to succeed Nelson Mandela as President, submitted amnesty applications in time to meet a Saturday midnight deadline.









The applications and the appearance of the Congress leaders are a boost for the Truth Commission, which was created to put South Africa's brutal past to rest without the expense and political divisiveness of prosecutions. It is empowered to offer amnesty to those who confess.
But the Commission, headed by former Archbishop Desmond M. Tutu, is often dismissed by South African whites as a ''witch hunt'' whose purpose is to make the former National Party Government look bad. Last year Archbishop Tutu told President Mandela that he would resign unless A.N.C. members recognized that they had committed gross violations of human rights and needed to apply for amnesty.
The Congress appeared before the commission last August, but at that time it made only a formal written submission. This time, the party also submitted another 139 pages of written testimony before answering questions. The testimony includes 33 pages of responses and requests for elaboration by the Truth Commission, including more details on deaths at the Congress's bases in Angola, the use of land mines in border areas and details about 15 Congress members who were executed for spying and mutiny.
In submitting testimony to the commission, the Congress said it would take responsibility for 500 bombings over 11 years, and perhaps for another 95, but it could not be sure of the precise number.
Mac Maharaj, a Congress official, explained that communication had been so difficult that the movement's guerrillas were often left to make decisions on their own. For instance, he told the commission that until recently he thought three comrades had died in an explosion while trying to blow up a railway line. A few weeks ago, however, because of the disclosures made to the Commission, he found out that the men had been abducted and shot by the police, and then taken to the tracks and blown up so that it would look like an A.N.C. attempt at sabotage.
''It is these kind of circumstances that make it hard for us to be precise,'' said Mr. Maharaj, who is now Minister of Transport.
The Congress did, however, say that its former president, Oliver Tambo, personally authorized the 1983 car-bombing of South African Air Force headquarters in Pretoria, in which 19 people died."
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post #5 of 15 Old Dec 6th, 2013, 7:04 pm
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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at 95

Wow! What a bunch of racist drivel, they fought a civil war atrocities happened. United States fought a civil war and there were no atrocities from either side? Now some of those villains are heroes in American history.

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post #6 of 15 Old Dec 10th, 2013, 2:07 pm
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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at 95

You have to understand that Nelson Mandela was a far different man upon emerging from prison than he was when he went in. In fact the same Desmond Tutu who protected a man from Mandela was the same Desmond Tutu who praised president Nelson Mandela. Nelson Mandela's journey of life and the changes he went through on that journey are truly remarkable. Knowing who he was, and who he became was one of the reasons he himself was so forgiving as he guided the newly united South Africa. My hat off to a man who's life journey led him to compassion, forgiveness, tolerance as well as being a positive influence on his home nation and the world.

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post #7 of 15 Old Dec 10th, 2013, 2:33 pm
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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at 95

Some people called Michael Collins a terrorist, but they won't say it out loud in a pub in Dublin.

"History is written by the victors."- Winston Churchill

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post #8 of 15 Old Dec 12th, 2013, 1:30 pm
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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at 95

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Originally Posted by Mick-F View Post
"History is written by the victors."- Winston Churchill

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True that!

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post #9 of 15 Old Dec 13th, 2013, 9:20 am
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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at 95

I loved his work in "The Shawshank Redemption."

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post #10 of 15 Old Dec 13th, 2013, 10:33 am
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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at 95

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Some people called Michael Collins a terrorist, but they won't say it out loud in a pub in Dublin.


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Well said.


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post #11 of 15 Old Dec 31st, 2013, 6:52 pm
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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at 95

Just saw this post and found myself laughing. The world didn't lose anything with Mandela's death and neither did South Africa. From terrorist to president he didn't do anything worthy. In the 5 years as President he took one of the worlds power house economies and flushed it down the toilet. Socialism and Communism wrapped in a fairytale... We'll sure buy anything these days, even when all the facts are so easy to find.

ps... writing fact isn't racist. Covering up the truth to be PC might be.
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post #12 of 15 Old Dec 31st, 2013, 7:05 pm
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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at 95

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Originally Posted by Teach View Post
Just saw this post and found myself laughing. The world didn't lose anything with Mandela's death and neither did South Africa. From terrorist to president he didn't do anything worthy. In the 5 years as President he took one of the worlds power house economies and flushed it down the toilet. Socialism and Communism wrapped in a fairytale... We'll sure buy anything these days, even when all the facts are so easy to find.

ps... writing fact isn't racist. Covering up the truth to be PC might be.
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post #13 of 15 Old Jan 1st, 2014, 1:47 pm
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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at 95

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Originally Posted by BennyBob View Post
You have to understand that Nelson Mandela was a far different man upon emerging from prison than he was when he went in. In fact the same Desmond Tutu who protected a man from Mandela was the same Desmond Tutu who praised president Nelson Mandela. Nelson Mandela's journey of life and the changes he went through on that journey are truly remarkable. Knowing who he was, and who he became was one of the reasons he himself was so forgiving as he guided the newly united South Africa. My hat off to a man who's life journey led him to compassion, forgiveness, tolerance as well as being a positive influence on his home nation and the world.
Very nicely stated. Mandela was visionary.
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post #14 of 15 Old Jan 4th, 2014, 11:26 am
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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at 95

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teach View Post
Just saw this post and found myself laughing. The world didn't lose anything with Mandela's death and neither did South Africa. From terrorist to president he didn't do anything worthy. In the 5 years as President he took one of the worlds power house economies and flushed it down the toilet. Socialism and Communism wrapped in a fairytale... We'll sure buy anything these days, even when all the facts are so easy to find.

ps... writing fact isn't racist. Covering up the truth to be PC might be.
++1
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post #15 of 15 Old Jan 4th, 2014, 11:27 am
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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at 95

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Wow! What a bunch of racist drivel, they fought a civil war atrocities happened. United States fought a civil war and there were no atrocities from either side? Now some of those villains are heroes in American history.

Gerhard
Good point..
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