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post #1 of 20 Old Apr 27th, 2006, 3:30 pm Thread Starter
 
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For the Readers out there!

For you readers out there you might want to pickup the book "Deep Survival" by Laurence Gonzales. "Who lives, who dies and why". As motorcyclists most of you will understand and appreciate the intonations and rhythm of the book, as well as the psychological boost it provides to riding.
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post #2 of 20 Old Apr 29th, 2006, 3:28 pm Thread Starter
 
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I think it's comical no one commented on this post and I find it comical how too few people read.

Of the 10% of the US population who actually walk into a book store and actually buy a book even considerably less finish the book (as low as 1%).

Experience does not fill the gaps... you can look right at something and not have a clue to what you are looking at unless someone explains it to you... meaning the experience, location or observation didn't teach you anything.

We are human, our attention waxes and wanes, we get stupid and we get tired and most importantly we are OFTEN overly-confident. We often don't realize when we are in over our heads! I believe that most people who ride motorcycles, among other things, fall into this category.

The same route you take all the time is never the same twice. Just because you haven't had any problems for 5 years doesn't mean tomorrow you won't. And more than likely if you haven't had any problems yet you believe it's your skill that won you this statement. BS for the most of you.

If you ride a motorcycle - you need to read this book.
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post #3 of 20 Old Apr 29th, 2006, 5:13 pm
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Post Some more about Deep Survival

I found this information on the books advertising site. Sounds very interesting. And I happen to know there are a few readers around here, at least 1%.


About Deep Survival

When Aaron Ralston's hand was trapped by a boulder in a canyon in Utah, he was forced to cut it off to save his life. This galvanized the attention of the world because we all secretly wondered: Would I be able to do that?

What does it take to survive? Do we all have it in us? Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why, provides some startling answers to these questions for people facing any sort of major crisis, from being lost in the wilderness to the death of a loved one.

Although Deep Survival analyzes many remarkable cases of survival in the wilderness, people suffering from serious illness or recovering from addiction have already adopted it as a metaphorical framework for understanding what they're going through and what the keys to a successful outcome are. By analyzing cases in which people have survived against seemingly impossible odds, often with no equipment or training, we see that there is an intangible quality of attitude, a set of psychological and emotional skills built over a lifetime, that ultimately determine how well we survive life's big challenges.

Most people are surprised to learn that survival isn't a battle and that the winners aren't always the toughest people. Rather it is a spiritual journey, and it's remarkably similar for all of us, whether it plays out in the wilderness, in a cancer ward, in a prison camp, in the executive boardroom, or in a recovery group.

The clear message in Deep Survival about who lives and who dies is this: “It's not what's in your pack that separates the quick from the dead. It's not even what's in your mind. Corny as it sounds, it's what's in your heart.”

Here are some excerpts from Deep Survival that may make a difference in your life.

– On responsibility and the survivor: “He doesn't blame others. He takes responsibility for himself.” Whiners, people who always blame others and expect to be rescued, do not make good survivors.

– “Survivors discover a deep spiritual relationship to the world.” People who are deeply connected to family, friends, and the activities in their lives, people who are passionate about life, make better survivors. In speaking of how he managed to keep two people from committing suicide in Auschwitz, Viktor Frankl says it “was a question of getting them to realize that life was still expecting something from them; something in the future was expected of them. We found, in fact, that for the one it was his child whom he adored and who was waiting for him in a foreign country. For the other it was a thing, not a person. This man was a scientist and had written a series of books that still needed to be finished. His work could not be done by anyone else, any more than another person could ever take the place of the father in his child's affections.”

– Survivors look back on their journey, even with all its suffering, and they cherish it. Lance Armstrong said, “Cancer was the best thing that ever happened to me.”

– “Gratitude, humility, wonder, imagination, and cold, logical determination: those are the survivor's tools of mind.” Viktor Frankl wrote, “We were grateful for the smallest mercies... how content we were; happy in spite of everything.”

– Survivors do not let themselves be overwhelmed by the seeming impossibility of the task they face. Steve Callahan drifted 1800 miles for 76 days on the open ocean in a five-foot raft: “He knew that to think of the impossibility of drifting there would excite dangerous emotions. Instead, he planned only as far as the following morning. By not thinking of the almost certain death that would result... he was keeping himself from despair and panic. So he set up a small, attainable goal. To act is human, to succeed, crucial.”

– Under extreme stress, the mind begins to split. Reason and emotion seem to separate. “Nearly all survivors report hearing what they call ‘the voice.’ It tells them what to do. It is the speaking, rational side of the brain, the one that processes language, the wellspring of reason.” Lance Armstrong describes his own experience of this: “I began to talk to it, engaging in an inner conversation with cancer... In the sound of my own inner voice I heard an unfamiliar note: Uncertainty.”

– Survivors of all sorts report having what can almost be called a vision during the spiritual transformation that saves their lives. Bill W., the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, wrote, “Suddenly the room lit up with a great white light. It seemed to me, in the mind's eye, that I was on a mountain and that a wind not of air but of spirit was blowing. And then it burst upon me that I was a free man... Slowly the ecstasy subsided. I lay on the bed, but now for a time I was in another world, a new world of consciousness.”

– Compare this from Deep Survival, concerning a mountaineer stuck in a crevasse: “Still hanging on his rope, Simpson began to experience a sense of wonder and even joy at his environment, that same spiritual and mystical transformation reported by many other survivors. It is always followed by a certainty of survival and a renewed commitment. With dawn came light, and with light came revelation: ‘A pillar of gold light beamed diagonally from a small hole in the roof, spraying bright reflections off the far wall of the crevasse. I was mesmerized by this beam of sunlight burning through the vaulted ceiling from the real world outside... I was going to reach that sunbeam. I knew it then with absolute certainty.’”

TOP

– And Lance Armstrong wrote of his experience on a training ride up a mountain while coming back from cancer: “As I continued upward, I saw my life as a whole. I saw the pattern and the privilege of it, and the purpose of it, too. It was simply this: I was meant for a long, hard climb... I passed the rest of the trip in a state of near-reverence for those beautiful, peaceful, soulful mountains.”

– Even–or perhaps especially–in Auschwitz, people found cause to laugh. Why is humor so important to survival? “Laughter stimulates the left prefrontal cortex, an area in the brain that helps us to feel good and to be motivated. That stimulation alleviates anxiety and frustration. There is evidence that laughter can send chemical signals to actively inhibit the firing of nerves in the amygdala, thereby dampening fear. Laughter, then, can help to temper negative emotions.”

– Just as you can become lost in the woods, you can become lost in business or in a relationship: “If he'd been able to reason more clearly, he could have understood that he was not on the correct route. But logic was rapidly being pushed into the background by emotion and stress. So, by the simple act of putting one foot in front of the other, he was about to cross over from mild geographical confusion to a state of being genuinely lost. The stages of getting lost resemble the five stages of dying described by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, the psychologist who wrote On Death and Dying: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.”

– Why is humility so important? “The practice of Zen teaches that it is impossible to add anything more to a cup that is already full. If you pour in more tea, it simply spills over and is wasted. The same is true of the mind. A closed attitude, an attitude that says, ‘I already know,’ may cause you to miss important information. Zen teaches openness. Survival instructors refer to that quality of openness as ‘humility.’” This attitude of knowing that we don't know can help us keep from getting lost–whether in life or in the woods.

– Progress not perfection: Even those who survive the impossible are still only human. “That final stage in the process of being lost can prove to be either a beginning or an end. Some give up and die. Others stop denying and begin surviving. You don't have to be an elite performer. You don't have to be perfect. You just have to get on with it and do the next right thing.”

– Good survivors avoid self-pity. Concerning a 17-year-old girl lost in the Peruvian jungle: “She deduced that, even the helicopters and airplanes she could hear wouldn't be able to see her through the jungle canopy. She'd have to get herself out. It was another important moment: She didn't spend time bemoaning her fate. She looked to herself, took responsibility, made a plan.”

– Survivors always report that they were doing it for someone else, not just themselves. Bill W. on the value of helping others: “...our common means of deliverance are effective for ourselves only when constantly carried to others...” From Deep Survival: ”Helping someone else is the best way to ensure your own survival. It takes you out of yourself. It helps you to rise above your fears. Now you're a rescuer, not a victim.”

– Survivors are good at acceptance. They accept the world they're in, the challenge they face. Concerning what I learned in survival school: “I could not change the world; I could only change myself. To see and know that world, then, was the key to surviving it. I had to accept the world in which I found myself. I had to calm down and begin living. As with the Zen disciplines, the archery and martial arts, the practice of such skills could move perceptions and physical experiences into a place where I could calmly take correct action.” Viktor Frankl wrote, “When we are no longer able to change a situation... we are challenged to change ourselves.”

In summary: “The outcome of a survival situation depends largely on your mental, emotional, and physical condition and activities. Everyone who meets catastrophe or challenge and survives it through his or her own actions goes through an initial transformation from victim to survivor, and also follows a well-defined pattern of mental emotional checks, controls, actions, and transformations. Those activities, such as the split of the rational from the emotional self and the sudden, almost blinding insight that one is going to live, are far more important in predicting survival than any particular skill, training, or equipment. Those mental processes and transformations reflect actual brain activity that scientists are just beginning to understand. Everyone has finite resources going into a catastrophe. It is in managing those resources and taking advantage of every bit of luck that comes along that survivors have been able to bring out their stories.”


Laurence Gonzales is Contributing Editor for National Geographic Adventure magazine. The author of numerous other books, he has written for Harper's, Outside and Men's Journal, to mention a few.

Roger
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post #4 of 20 Old Apr 29th, 2006, 7:56 pm
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Jerrod:
Quote:
Experience does not fill the gaps... you can look right at something and not have a clue to what you are looking at unless someone explains it to you... meaning the experience, location or observation didn't teach you anything.

I quite agree. The key is "Situational Awareness (SA)" to PERCEIVE; UNDERSTAND; then PROJECT. Perception, comprehension and projection are the keys. We teach our operators this in training sessions.

Just being there "ain't enuff!!!!"

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post #5 of 20 Old Apr 30th, 2006, 12:41 am Thread Starter
 
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What? Whomever wrote this summary concerning the book needs to read the book again... or rather for the first time. Survival has very little to do with what is in your heart - often that alone will get you killed. This book has everything to do with what is in your head. Information and the ability to use it is the key to survival. The moron who wrote this needs to find a new job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMoore007
The clear message in Deep Survival about who lives and who dies is this: “It's not what's in your pack that separates the quick from the dead. It's not even what's in your mind. Corny as it sounds, it's what's in your heart.” [/i]
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post #6 of 20 Old Apr 30th, 2006, 7:54 am
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Quote:
By analyzing cases in which people have survived against seemingly impossible odds, often with no equipment or training, we see that there is an intangible quality of attitude, a set of psychological and emotional skills built over a lifetime, that ultimately determine how well we survive life's big challenges.

Maybe
you missed what he/she was trying to say. Knowing what to do is meaningless if you don't possess the fortitude (heart) to act.



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post #7 of 20 Old Apr 30th, 2006, 12:45 pm Thread Starter
 
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Quoting you from before... "your clueless" and once again.

Perhaps you should read the book before you get involved on what it says or doesn't say. You are exactly the sort of person who could benefit from reading the book.

There are many dire situations in which the size of the fight within you is meaningless. How long can you hold your breath? I would bet you couldn't hold it for more than three minutes - no matter your determination. How long can you go without food or water? I would bet you couldn't go more than 3 days without water and no more than 3 weeks without food. Meaning you would be worthless well before that... regardless of your heart.

There are limits to all of our physical functions and not getting into myriad problem situations in the first place is often most important.

People do it on motorcycles all the time. Your determination to live when your organs are amorphous liquid or no longer attached to your body is quite negligible.

Lastly, unless you are willing to get into a cage with me - in which I train daily - I would word my suggestions more carefully. I know more about heart than the average fellow and I didn't miss the point of the book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoog62



Maybe
you missed what he/she was trying to say. Knowing what to do is meaningless if you don't possess the fortitude (heart) to act.


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post #8 of 20 Old May 1st, 2006, 11:05 am
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You may not have missed the point of the book, but you sure missed the point of my post.

First off, I didn’t say “your clueless” (which would actually be “you’re clueless”). What I said was “you don’t have a clue how you would react.” You could not possibly know what was to the left of the rider in that video (your planned escape route IIRC). Anyway, that’s ancient history. Let it goooooooo.

Second, I made no comment what-so-ever about the book itself. I merely asked if it was possible you misinterpreted what the reviewer was trying to say, based on the quote I provided. The second line is my opinion based solely on actual events in my life and the lives of close friends. I wouldn’t think to bore you with the details.

Whether I could benefit from reading this book, I’ll take your word on that. You seem to be impressed with it, and I appreciate your concern for your fellow riders. Maybe I would be better off with a detailed review from you, after all, your opinion seems to be the only one that matters.



Lastly, your childish threat wasn’t really called for was it? I’ll be just fine, trust me.

Dave Hoogerland

'08 Triumph Tiger 1050 ABS
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post #9 of 20 Old May 1st, 2006, 12:46 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrod Maguire
...Lastly, unless you are willing to get into a cage with me - in which I train daily - I would word my suggestions more carefully. I know more about heart than the average fellow and I didn't miss the point of the book.
I have no opinion either way on the book or its topic, Jerrod, and at the risk of having you threaten to kick my ass in a cage fight (and I have no doubt you could, but what does that mean?) because of words I may write or speak:

What's up with this response? Is this what we have to do when someone disagrees, or insults us (real or perceived), or when email doesn't convey an intended message?

I'm hoping I completely missed the point of the above remark, and that you intended an invitation to a cage fight to be a training/learning experience as opposed to a beating.

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post #10 of 20 Old May 1st, 2006, 2:01 pm
 
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i read this thread twice because i didn't believe it the first time. sure enough, it is true. interpreting a book the wrong way really CAN get your arse kicked in a cage match (!)
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post #11 of 20 Old May 1st, 2006, 2:06 pm Thread Starter
 
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There was no threat of violence nor invitation gentleman; that would be inviting a Honda Civic to an F1 race. I was merely demonstrating how poor a particular perspective or judgement was, originating from a particular member, by sharing some personal background information. The author of the said post was lost once again and I was helping him find his way.

Moreover, I read countless books and spend countless hours reading daily and have no more excitement over this one specific book than many others I come across; it's not giddiness my friends. This one just applies especially well to the novice riders out there who think they know what they are doing on a motorcycle.

I began this thread believing I might be doing someone a favor by posting it but it seems people would rather talk about trivial items. Alas, this is a motorcycle chit-chat forum I suppose and I should search elsewhere for depth.

If you haven't read the book... or don't want to discuss the book... than might I suggest you pad your participation points on another post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrod Maguire
Lastly, unless you are willing to get into a cage with me - in which I train daily - I would word my suggestions more carefully. I know more about heart than the average fellow and I didn't miss the point of the book.
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post #12 of 20 Old May 1st, 2006, 3:12 pm
 
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Must get lonely being so superior!

It is, but we manage to deal with it
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post #13 of 20 Old May 1st, 2006, 3:14 pm
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I read (and write). I read, because I quietly like to contemplate other peoples experience of life, I write, because I feel that sometimes I have experiences that I would like to share with people who might be interested. There is an awful lot to read, likewise, people who experience life have an awful lot to write about. You can experience your short time on this planet without re-living other peoples experiences, or you you can spend all your time reading about it. To threaten people because they havn't read the same words as you, and agree with your perception of their meaning is puerile.

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post #14 of 20 Old May 1st, 2006, 3:41 pm Thread Starter
 
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If more of you put more thought into your posts before you sent them we would have a lot less intellectual trash to cycle through on this forum.

Nevertheless, Dave Hoogerland was not merely suggesting something innocently, as some of you are so quick defend. He's been curt with me before and he should know that he's not poking a lamb. I would suggest that anyone who finds reason to comment on a book, that he has never picked up before, may feel a bit superior as well. And those feeling justified to put me in my place, Dave Dragon, feel quite superior indeed.

I develop my mind and body daily and if you find this smug for saying so, then so be it.

Lastly, I take exception to anyone saying I threatened anyone. Read over all of my posts in the past and you will find not a hair of bullying. If you are suggesting that it's so, your only making fire where there is none.
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post #15 of 20 Old May 1st, 2006, 4:00 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrod Maguire
If more of you put more thought into your posts before you sent them we would have a lot less intellectual trash to cycle through on this forum.

Nevertheless, Dave Hoogerland was not merely suggesting something innocently, as some of you are so quick defend. He's been curt with me before and he should know that he's not poking a lamb. I would suggest that anyone who finds reason to comment on a book, that he has never picked up before, may feel a bit superior as well. And those feeling justified to put me in my place, Dave Dragon, feel quite superior indeed.

I develop my mind and body daily and if you find this smug for saying so, then so be it.

Lastly, I take exception to anyone saying I threatened anyone. Read over all of my posts in the past and you will find not a hair of bullying. If you are suggesting that it's so, your only making fire where there is none.
Jerrod, I put an awful lot of thought into my post - I even edited it to spell PUERILE correctly.

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post #16 of 20 Old May 1st, 2006, 4:04 pm
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As I note the slight irony of the quote in Jerrod's signature line, I humbly and ever-so-politely ask that we put an end to the course this discussion has taken.
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post #17 of 20 Old May 1st, 2006, 4:44 pm Thread Starter
 
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Careful now!

We better end this line of thought before a discussion breaks out!
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post #18 of 20 Old May 1st, 2006, 9:41 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrod Maguire
We better end this line of thought before a discussion breaks out!
Jerrod, now THAT was funny, and with that you have redeemed yourself, in MY book -- for whatever that is worth.

But just a little. I'm still concerned -- and forgive me for repeating my previous comment, and echoed by other responders -- that I don't know how to read your previous post without understanding that you wanted to do a smack-down in a cage fight on somebody for disagreeing with you. I've beat this dead horse (no pun intended), so I'll back quietly away from this thread, my back to the wall, uttering soothing sounds and not making eye contact...

Howard Schisler
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2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #19 of 20 Old May 1st, 2006, 11:08 pm
 
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Jerrod,

The word of the day is ... DECAF... check it out.
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post #20 of 20 Old May 2nd, 2006, 2:22 am Thread Starter
 
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You could chalk it up to poor writing I suppose... I was trying to suggest "DH" could get into a cage with me or he could take my word for it... when it comes to knowing a thing or two about "heart".

I may think I'm good at particular things and I may even tell you so but writing wouldn't be one of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
Jerrod, now THAT was funny, and with that you have redeemed yourself, in MY book -- for whatever that is worth.

But just a little. I'm still concerned -- and forgive me for repeating my previous comment, and echoed by other responders -- that I don't know how to read your previous post without understanding that you wanted to do a smack-down in a cage fight on somebody for disagreeing with you. I've beat this dead horse (no pun intended), so I'll back quietly away from this thread, my back to the wall, uttering soothing sounds and not making eye contact...
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