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post #1 of 27 Old Apr 18th, 2006, 11:03 pm Thread Starter
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Smile 3 LT's want to talk about it

bike to bike communication that is : We want to be able to communicate while flying down the road and wondering how to go about it. No interest in CB's, something quick and easy seems the order of the day:

Anyone use the Midland GMRS sets from either Motorcycle/BMW shop, Costco or JC Whitney ? Looks good and has 5 watts with either PTT or Vox, ear bud and mic and some even have 12V plug power coupled with 4 NiCad battery set up.. One BMW shop I was in calls them the MotoCom Sidekick SK-55 set for $139.00.

Thanks!

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post #2 of 27 Old Apr 19th, 2006, 1:44 am
 
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FYI: You might review this thread as it covers the information you are asking about.

http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthre...highlight=gmrs
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post #3 of 27 Old Apr 19th, 2006, 8:26 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmctpdog
bike to bike communication that is : We want to be able to communicate while flying down the road and wondering how to go about it. No interest in CB's, something quick and easy seems the order of the day:

Anyone use the Midland GMRS sets from either Motorcycle/BMW shop, Costco or JC Whitney ? Looks good and has 5 watts with either PTT or Vox, ear bud and mic and some even have 12V plug power coupled with 4 NiCad battery set up.. One BMW shop I was in calls them the MotoCom Sidekick SK-55 set for $139.00.

Thanks!
you wnat inexpensive that works well all the time with mno bs wiring to everything in the world?

Chatter Box X-1 Gmrs radio, it is the only one of our three comunications devices that has worked flawlessly for a couple years now

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post #4 of 27 Old Apr 19th, 2006, 12:26 pm
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Though the FCC seems to be ignoring enforement - much as they did with CB back when - GMRS operation requires a license.

It's dead easy to get though - no testing. Just apply, pay the fee and soon your license will arive. You can even do it online. Fee is currently $80 for a 5 year renewable license.

FRS operation doesn't need a license - but is quite a bit lower in power as well as a few other restrictins. Namely, no detachable antennas. 1/2 of a watt ERP max. So, if you've a line of sight path, no obstructions, perfect conditions and ideal antennas - you can get "up to 2 miles" range. Real life conditions, 2/3 to a mile are more usual.

Here's what the FCC has to say on the deal. Including information on 'dual use' radios (FRS/GMRS rigs). They also have a link there to the ULS to apply for a license online.

If you have a 'dual purpose' radio - you can only use it on the FRS channels, at FRS power levels - unless you have a GMRS license. Yes, some of the FRS and GMRS channels overlap. But, unless you're operating under a GMRS operators license, you have to run your rig as an FRS station. Same channel, but lower ERP. To use the full power your radio might offer - gotta have that license.

GMRS has 'Immediate Family Member' language too (Title 47 Sec. 95.179). Means if you have a license, your friends can't operate under your license. They have to have their own.

In "the real world" - most users simply ignore all this and use their GMRS radios without a license. I've never heard of anyone catch'n grief. Still, those are the rules on the books.



Other countries likely have similar laws.

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post #5 of 27 Old Apr 19th, 2006, 1:33 pm
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Exclamation

Just in case you don't think it can happen, I was triangulated by the FCC about a month ago. They came up right behind me on the freeway. Good thing I had my license in my topcase even though I couldn't remember the numbers. I am pretty sure there is some "radio nut" in our area with an overbearing sense of importance. He has some sort of scanner that even picked up the private digital subcode. Kept asking me for my call sign and license number. I told him I was on a motorcycle and couldn't remember it off the top of head. He kept scolding me about how I really need a license and that there are a lot of illegal GMRS radio operations coming from motorcycles in our area. I suspect he made a complaint and the FCC decided to monitor our area. They inspected my ICOM and also checked the bike for hidden CB. Did you know they can impound your bike or car if they catch you without license and then refer you to Homeland Security? It's no joke, folks. I have since registered a callsign and memorized my license number. Thunderchief/WCQC238.

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post #6 of 27 Old Apr 19th, 2006, 4:01 pm
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Well, so much for the 'not hearing about anyone catch'n grief' part.

Picking out the PL, DTMF or even 'digital privacy' codes on an analog FM signal is fairly easy to do. Just feed your audio signal to your laptop's or PC's sound card - run it through some freebie software you downloaded from the I-net and voila. That informatin isn't considered 'encryption' so it's legit to decode.

Only one of several reasons why I went for my tech ticket (amateur radio) - get to use repaters, VHF, UHF, interlinks, phone patches, higher power levels, better antennas, etc, etc, etc... And it's almost as 'dead easy' to get the license - though there is a test involved the fee is quite a bit less. And, if my 8 y/o son can pass it....

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post #7 of 27 Old Apr 19th, 2006, 6:25 pm
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FRS is good enough

In my opinion FRS is plenty good enough for most bike to bike work. If you really lose track of each other, stop and call on your cell phone.
Kinda keeps it simple. Even with GMRS power you can lose contact due to obstructions.

Last edited by CharlieVT; Apr 19th, 2006 at 6:25 pm. Reason: edited
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post #8 of 27 Old Apr 19th, 2006, 6:54 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotter


Though the FCC seems to be ignoring enforement - much as they did with CB back when - GMRS operation requires a license.

It's dead easy to get though - no testing. Just apply, pay the fee and soon your license will arive. You can even do it online. Fee is currently $80 for a 5 year renewable license.

FRS operation doesn't need a license - but is quite a bit lower in power as well as a few other restrictins. Namely, no detachable antennas. 1/2 of a watt ERP max. So, if you've a line of sight path, no obstructions, perfect conditions and ideal antennas - you can get "up to 2 miles" range. Real life conditions, 2/3 to a mile are more usual.

Here's what the FCC has to say on the deal. Including information on 'dual use' radios (FRS/GMRS rigs). They also have a link there to the ULS to apply for a license online.

If you have a 'dual purpose' radio - you can only use it on the FRS channels, at FRS power levels - unless you have a GMRS license. Yes, some of the FRS and GMRS channels overlap. But, unless you're operating under a GMRS operators license, you have to run your rig as an FRS station. Same channel, but lower ERP. To use the full power your radio might offer - gotta have that license.

GMRS has 'Immediate Family Member' language too (Title 47 Sec. 95.179). Means if you have a license, your friends can't operate under your license. They have to have their own.

In "the real world" - most users simply ignore all this and use their GMRS radios without a license. I've never heard of anyone catch'n grief. Still, those are the rules on the books.



Other countries likely have similar laws.
the first 7 channels (I think 7) are FRS though you won;t have quite the range you will be legal to operate it. the upper channels are GMRS

you still want to buy the X-! GMRS if your going for chatterbox as it seems ti be or have higher quality sounds and much clealer,

Tom

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post #9 of 27 Old Apr 19th, 2006, 7:04 pm
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Why did they check for a hidden CB? The CB does not require a license.

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post #10 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 10:53 am Thread Starter
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While in Local Costco I saw that they were selling the Motorola SX710 pair of
FRS/GMRS with everything I wanted but the 12v bike cigarette lighter power adapter. It came with 2 radios, 2 headsets w/mic, clipon brackets and charging base.NiCads are suppose to be good for 12-14 hours. We'll see come this weekend when we test out the radios. Can't go wrong for $60.00 to try it!
Lists for $90 same pac else where.

Has nice features. PTT or VOX operated, low batt light, back lit, channel Lock, Scan 22 channels each of FRS/GMRS. Worked fine off the bikes so far...

Will report back after ride.. No expectations since this is too good to be true at this price level...

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post #11 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 11:06 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rspyder
Why did they check for a hidden CB? The CB does not require a license.
Likely look'n for a 'foot warmer'. Illegal linear amplifier.

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post #12 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 11:57 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallyho
Just in case you don't think it can happen, I was triangulated by the FCC about a month ago. They came up right behind me on the freeway. Good thing I had my license in my topcase even though I couldn't remember the numbers. I am pretty sure there is some "radio nut" in our area with an overbearing sense of importance. He has some sort of scanner that even picked up the private digital subcode. Kept asking me for my call sign and license number. I told him I was on a motorcycle and couldn't remember it off the top of head. He kept scolding me about how I really need a license and that there are a lot of illegal GMRS radio operations coming from motorcycles in our area. I suspect he made a complaint and the FCC decided to monitor our area. They inspected my ICOM and also checked the bike for hidden CB. Did you know they can impound your bike or car if they catch you without license and then refer you to Homeland Security? It's no joke, folks. I have since registered a callsign and memorized my license number. Thunderchief/WCQC238.


You're kidding right??? You got pulled over on the freeway by the FCC??? Where you transmitting that much that they could single you out of all the other traffic....

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post #13 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 11:58 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rspyder
Why did they check for a hidden CB? The CB does not require a license.
They said anything with more than half a watt power including CBs requires a license and that the one I purchased for my GMRS covers CBs as well.

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post #14 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 12:01 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallyho
They said anything with more than half a watt power including CBs requires a license and that the one I purchased for my GMRS covers CBs as well.

Who is the "They" ? What kind of LEO stopped you?

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post #15 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 2:29 pm
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They said anything with more than half a watt power including CBs requires a license and that the one I purchased for my GMRS covers CBs as well.
Remember though - what the legal definition of the Citizen Band Radio Service is different that what we all call a 'CB radio'. FRS falls under the legal def of Citizen Band as well as the ol 40 chanel 26-27Mhz 'trucker toys' we all call CB radios.

FRS is limited to 1/2 watt. But 26-27Mhz CB isn't - you can go all the way up to "5 watts" PEP.

FRS and CB do *not* require licenses. Something sounds a bit fishy. What kinda ID did they show ya? How'd they 'pull you over'? FCC can and does have right to inspect any station at any time - but I didn't think they could pull you out of traffic.

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post #16 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 2:38 pm
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Quote:
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Remember though - what the legal definition of the Citizen Band Radio Service is different that what we all call a 'CB radio'. FRS falls under the legal def of Citizen Band as well as the ol 40 chanel 26-27Mhz 'trucker toys' we all call CB radios.

FRS is limited to 1/2 watt. But 26-27Mhz CB isn't - you can go all the way up to "5 watts" PEP.

FRS and CB do *not* require licenses. Something sounds a bit fishy. What kinda ID did they show ya? How'd they 'pull you over'? FCC can and does have right to inspect any station at any time - but I didn't think they could pull you out of traffic.

Yes, as Paul Harvey used to say, "the rest of the story" would be interesting....

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post #17 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 3:36 pm
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A Yolo County Sheriff pulled me over on Hwy 99 about two miles north of I-5. A dark blue Ford van came in behind him. The van had about 5 antennas on it down the middle of the top from front to back. Both guys had TSA IDs. One gave me his card when they left which I have at home. I thought I had seen the van getting on the freeway as I passed the airport exit on I-5.

Apparently, if they know what channel to monitor especially with the specific digital subchannel we use, it's not too difficult. That's why I think that guy with the scanner in Orangevale complained to someone about motorcycles using GMRS frequencies. That guy cut in on Stephen and I about three weeks before as we were riding up to Reno on a Friday and told us to get off the radio or he would report us even after I gave him my number. He said radio licenses don't start with Ws. Well, mine does.

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post #18 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 3:46 pm
 
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I just can't stand it.........I'm calling B.S. on this getting stopped, and getting triangulated and this half watt B.S. on CB's......

I've been talking on CB's since 1973 and just quit working after 8 years in a CB sales and repair shop and have done it all........

My last car was an 86 Suburban,, now ANYONE of you who know any thing about CB's know what was in that burban........

Tallyho,, You are the first person in the history of the world to get stopped by the FCC on a freeway,, thats the biggest laugh I've ever had....

And CB's are 4 watts on the output of the final transistor..

My car had 3 6 volt batts hooked together for an 18 volt system damn it took two amps just to key up my big amp..you could take a 8 foot florescent light and I could light it up and let you walk 20 feet from my suburban and keep it lit up!!!!!!!!

Be careful what you write here some of us have been there and done that................Regards Pete
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post #19 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 3:51 pm
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Mine does too start with W. Maybe we can file a harrassment against the guy in Orangevale.

Wonder if it's the same guy that was checking on us when we were testing the radios at the tech session a while back. We were in Orangevale at the time. Coincidence?



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post #20 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 4:57 pm Thread Starter
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** Now I know my thread has been hijacked by the Sacramento crowd
and that guy who runs his store for the HDDC posse....

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post #21 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 5:30 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallyho
Both guys had TSA IDs.
What is TSA ?

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post #22 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 5:40 pm
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Traffic Safety Administration. Which makes this more puzzling. Maybe because Bob was close to an airport and transmitting and they picked up.



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post #23 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 5:49 pm
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Yup Pete - and even though you were able to do it, get away with it and not get caught. It's still illegal to run amps like that. Many - not all - 11m amps are 'dirty' or run by folks who have no real idea what it is they're doing - as you know. They can easily 'splatter' across spectrum many, many Khz wide making communications for other stations difficult or impossible. If you happen to be in an area where no one cares - well, there ya go. Sometimes it's hard to know who else is out there. Around here - if a dirty 11m amp splatters into our 10m or business band segments, you can be sure "Uncle Charlie" can and will take notice.

Interfearance with a licensed service - does take a bit of doing to get 'Charlie' to move - but once he does, it can get downright ugly. Now, if that service happens to be law enforcment or EMS - yea, they tend to jump pretty fast at those. Any more though, most LEO EMS services are moving to at least VHF if not UHF or higher systems and simply don't care what comes out of the 11m bands anymore.

If that FCC van was even half way equiped as it should be - they'd be able to watch entire segments of spectrum and identify and record many transmissions at once. We were able to do that much with a basic Service Monitor. Some of the newer ones are downright scary what they can do. They'd be able to find your frequency, sub channel, ID codes, tones, bandwidth, modulation, etc, etc within fractions of a second of you keying your radio - and record it all for evidence. Using Doppler RDF tools, they'd have a bearing and relatvie distance on you just as easily. You can buy a basic Doppler RDF kit from Ramsey Electronics for less than $200.

The story of the pull over makes more sense now. Local LEO involved - that I have heard of before. Thanks for the fill in!

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post #24 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 6:13 pm
 
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Bloody Hell !!
I am a LEO and sounds like you guys live in a state of terror and fear, what ever happened to be being reasonable and decent with everyday folks?
Are your bandwiths that close that you yakking on a CB at 100watts is going to bring an aircraft down?? Ours is limited (by licence not physically) to 4 watts, but I did try 100watts (once ) mind you I am going back about 30 years....CB is a dinosaur in Europe except for some truck drivers. We have all gone Bluetooth and Free mobile (cell) calls..
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post #25 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 7:38 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaffyK
Mine does too start with W. Maybe we can file a harrassment against the guy in Orangevale.

Wonder if it's the same guy that was checking on us when we were testing the radios at the tech session a while back. We were in Orangevale at the time. Coincidence?
I am pretty sure it was the same guy.

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post #26 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 7:41 pm
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Originally Posted by RaffyK
Traffic Safety Administration. Which makes this more puzzling. Maybe because Bob was close to an airport and transmitting and they picked up.
His card says "Transportation Safety Administration, US Dept of Homeland Security, Sacramento International Airport"

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post #27 of 27 Old Apr 20th, 2006, 7:59 pm
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Originally Posted by Malki
Bloody Hell !!
I am a LEO and sounds like you guys live in a state of terror and fear, what ever happened to be being reasonable and decent with everyday folks?
Are your bandwiths that close that you yakking on a CB at 100watts is going to bring an aircraft down?? Ours is limited (by licence not physically) to 4 watts, but I did try 100watts (once ) mind you I am going back about 30 years....CB is a dinosaur in Europe except for some truck drivers. We have all gone Bluetooth and Free mobile (cell) calls..
Just to be clear, I was talking on an ICOM set on GMRS freq 3, digsub 754 with the radio set at two watts. I was not on a CB at the time nor do I have one on the bike. I plan to but it will be out in the open just like the ICOM. Sacramento is the state capital and some self-important government type may have been in town. In retrospect, it appears I was not pulled over by the FCC.

In California, there is no limit to the infringements of personal liberty or guaranteed rights for the supposed protection of the government agencies from lawsuits by the general populace. Look what happened to Andy.

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