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post #1 of 19 Old Dec 14th, 2012, 7:27 pm Thread Starter
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How come there is never a good person with a gun around when a bad person with a gun shows up?
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post #2 of 19 Old Dec 14th, 2012, 9:10 pm
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Re: Question

Here's a radical thought: let the teachers (those who want to, and are capable) take the appropriate training and be armed while in the classroom, or have the weapon secured nearby in the classroom. It could be done appropriately, safely, and discreetly. But, that will never fly. Instead, most school's 'safety' protocol for this scenario is to lock the classroom door and hide quietly until the threat is gone.

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post #3 of 19 Old Dec 14th, 2012, 10:56 pm
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Angry Re: Question

22 kids in China stabbed by some knife wielding idiot. Not only guns....

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post #4 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 12:38 am
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Re: Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwlong
How come there is never a good person with a gun around when a bad person with a gun shows up?
Because the person who plans to kill appoints the time and place and controls the rules as to what type of weapon(s) . They are often planning or expecting to die in the in the attack. The "good person with a gun" has serious disadvantages. Thankfully, most that carry are never confronted with such a scenario.
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post #5 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 6:43 am
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Re: Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwlong
How come there is never a good person with a gun around when a bad person with a gun shows up?
It does happen and it does make the news, but won't solve the problem, whatever the problem happens to be! Several months ago, in north Florida, a man with a gun chased several men with guns trying to rob a store. A video of it is on YouTube.

The problem is quite a bit more complex though. Look what kids watch on TV and the distorted sense of reality. Their senses have been numbed by the violence on TV, video guns and maybe just life in general.

Carry guns or not, is not the problem. Many people are hurting, seeking help or not and don't seem to care about the outcome.

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post #6 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 7:14 am
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Re: Question

Every time something like this happens (and it has happened all to often). We are asked why and there are usually answers that comment on aspects of violence in our current culture. This might even be a part of the answer but I don't know how to check the past and see if this is really more prevalent than it was in other times or even in different cultures. With the world wide instant media that has come about in our lifetime we know of stuff all over the world that people would never have heard of before, so I wonder are we really worse now with our modern culture (violent games and movies), the same or better. It also doesn't help that instead of reporting what happens there seems to be more effort to put a personal spin on the facts (which of course is human nature) but doesn't help to sort out the data around the incident.
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post #7 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 8:34 am
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Re: Question

After going to a number of sites that are discussing this incident I ran across a link to a study I had read before but didn't remember the link to: http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/2nd_Am...ings_study.htm
this might not have helped in this incident but it is an attempt to find out the facts and what really works as opposed to what sounds like a good idea. I do remember talk in the past that select teachers should be given the opportunity to carry in school as we already trust (and most of them seem to live up to that trust regardless of the news media) them with the children for a good part of the day. Which is what hschisler suggested but nothing has ever been done about that suggestion as far as I've heard. This is the same argument that pilots had about being armed on aircraft. I do remember 2 incidents that happened in PA or Ohio a few years back that had assaults stopped because in one a teacher ran to his car and got a firearm and stopped the incident and in another some student(s) got guns from their cars and stopped it. Maybe we should study country's (like Israel) that have a concern for these types of incidents and see if what they do works and if so implement it as National policy. Knowing Americans though I'm fairly certain that the only thing that will happen is more calls for gun control.
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post #8 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 9:20 am
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Re: Question

Del - Thanks for the study. It was very logical and definitely not emotional. Maybe things are no different today. When I was growing up, 40 years ago, it did not seem as violent. Media has changed and as you said, news is instantaneous.

The population of Florida is around 19 M and there are now 1 M CW permits. 1 out of 19 can carry a gun and I don't think that includes law enforcement.

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post #9 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 9:29 am
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Re: Question

My fear is that the government will eventually remove all guns from the law abiding citizen, then no one will be able to defend themselves or others from those who will still have guns illegally.

It is a tired old saying: "Outlaw guns, and only outlaws will have guns", but unfortunately it is alarmingly true.

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post #10 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 9:43 am
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Re: Question

Just as a reminder that this is not the first nor sad to say will it probably be the last (even though we can pray and try to put in measures that will work) a friend sent me this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_Massacre
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post #11 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 10:16 am
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Re: Question

As we mourn for and with the victims of the tragic Sandy Hook massacre in Newton, let's resist the temptation to seize on that horrifying tragedy as an avenue to advocate our personal agendas.

Let the victims and their families grieve in peace and privacy. May they find comfort and solace as they do so.

Irrespective of our points of view and without regard to whether one is the President of the United States or the head of the NRA, it is offensively inappropriate to tread on the suffering of the victims in an attempt to advance ones own opinions.

At a more appropriate time I will feel free to express my views. But to do so now cheapens and degrades the suffering of the victims and their families.

Say a prayer for the victims and for their families and for the perpetrator and his family (each of whom is also a victim). But the wholesale marketing this sickening slaughter can wait at least a week or two.

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post #12 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 10:55 am
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Re: Question

You had me with you until your statement that the individual that visited this horrific evil on so many innocents is a co-victim of this tragedy ...

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post #13 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 11:49 am
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Re: Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by CWRoady
You had me with you until your statement that the individual that visited this horrific evil on so many innocents is a co-victim of this tragedy ...
I'm certain some would also view Adam Lanza as a victim, however, I tend not to do so. My statement was intended to include his mother (dead) his brother (initially accused of being the shooter) and his father as additional victims. So sad all the way around.

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post #14 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 11:56 am
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Re: Question

Amen Moot.

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post #15 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 12:05 pm
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Re: Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwlong
How come there is never a good person with a gun around when a bad person with a gun shows up?
Because these wackos pick gun-free zones. Places where law-abiding citizens are banned from protecting themselves. Places they know will have little to no resistance.

Virginia Tech - posted, no weapons
Columbine high - federal gun-free zone
Ft Hood - federal installation, no weapons allowed except for those required for duty.
Aurora theater - posted, no weapons
Portland mall - posted, no weapons
Newtown elementary - federal gun-free zone



Prayers for all those suffering in this tragedy.

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post #16 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 1:24 pm
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Re: Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moot
As we mourn for and with the victims of the tragic Sandy Hook massacre in Newton, let's resist the temptation to seize on that horrifying tragedy as an avenue to advocate our personal agendas.

Let the victims and their families grieve in peace and privacy. May they find comfort and solace as they do so.

Irrespective of our points of view and without regard to whether one is the President of the United States or the head of the NRA, it is offensively inappropriate to tread on the suffering of the victims in an attempt to advance ones own opinions.

At a more appropriate time I will feel free to express my views. But to do so now cheapens and degrades the suffering of the victims and their families.

Say a prayer for the victims and for their families and for the perpetrator and his family (each of whom is also a victim). But the wholesale marketing this sickening slaughter can wait at least a week or two.
? Who is that intended for?

If me: fair enough, BUT i was providing one suggested answer to the original poster's serious-yet-rhetorical question.

If others: I don't see it. If you want to comment now or comment later, that's your call.

As usual, the #1 entity advancing their own agenda (so far) is the media. Photographers rush to the scene and broadcast photos of anguished parents and frightened children. That is shameful, IMO. TV crews broadcast the same speculation over and over again, constantly trying to one-up each other. The national news anchors show up on-site the next day, trying to show how emotionally invested they are with those who are actually living through the tragedy. Within just a couple of hours the various news networks have custom video graphics they can use to dramatize their own speculation. Next up are the discussions between those on both sides of the gun ownership questions. Local, state, and national politicians tell us how they feel about it. Here in Ohio our governor appeared before the cameras to give his opinion and tell us how he felt about it. Seriously - who in Newtown, CT cares what Ohio's governor thinks about this? The President? OK, I understand that.

It's all formulaic and every time this happens the same things happen.

I will agree with you on one point: let's leave the families and the community alone. And, I'll apologize in advance for being a $hithead on this topic but it's a sore point with me and it seems like no one is willing to call the media out on these things. Time to go for a ride.

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post #17 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 7:50 pm
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Re: Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwlong
How come there is never a good person with a gun around when a bad person with a gun shows up?
Sometimes there is. In the Tucson/Giffords shooting a bystander did come running out of the store with his gun, safety turned off. He came within a whisker of shooting the citizen who had wrestled the gun away from Loughner.

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post #18 of 19 Old Dec 15th, 2012, 11:01 pm
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Re: Question

Howard, you may be a lot of things, but you, sir, are no $hithead! Well said. Thanks!

My thoughts and prayers go out to the families touched by this tragedy.

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post #19 of 19 Old Dec 16th, 2012, 12:19 am
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Re: Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by dukey33
Because these wackos pick gun-free zones. Places where law-abiding citizens are banned from protecting themselves. Places they know will have little to no resistance.

Virginia Tech - posted, no weapons
Columbine high - federal gun-free zone
Ft Hood - federal installation, no weapons allowed except for those required for duty.
Aurora theater - posted, no weapons
Portland mall - posted, no weapons
Newtown elementary - federal gun-free zone



Prayers for all those suffering in this tragedy.
However, they do it with legally obtained guns and ammo.
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