Perplexed - what would you do? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 12:14 am Thread Starter
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Perplexed - what would you do?

I sold a vintage, pristine 1972 Honda to a buyer in Illinois. Our communications were excellent. All in all a great transaction and I got paid immediately. He said he would have it picked up "soon". Fine, no problemo, money was in the bank!

That was at the end of March.

I have sent him multiple messages over the last several months to the two E-mail addresses I have for him asking him pick it up - it is ready to go and everything he bargained for, I've already notarized the title for sale and it is physically attached to the the bike as an "open" title. I have heard nothing. I think he is still alive as he is CEO of a VERY well know corporation (have the physical address) and obviously a high net worth individual. Mebbe he's got bigger fish to fry?

The only thing I can think of is to send him a certified letter with a photocopy of the open title and dated bill of sale asking him to arrange for shipping or I will consider it abandoned. Maybe that will get his attention. We're not talking about a small amount of money here: $4K

I'm not real happy storing it for free for so long, but since he paid a premium price I don't really have a problem with it. He seems like a great guy. BUT - it needs to go!

Weird deal, huh?

What would you do...


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post #2 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 12:49 am
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

As you stated he probably got sidetracked with other things.
Send a registered letter (request signed return receipt) asking for reply about shipping arrangements and date you can expect bike to be picked up?

Does bike run?
Sounds like a road trip adventure and park it in his Board Room.

Must have sold it too cheap?
4K probably pocket change of this individual?
How much you gonna ask $$$ next time you sell it? Ha!.

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post #3 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 1:28 am
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Yes, sounds like a road trip adventure... Propose to ride the bike to Illinois, all expenses payed, business class return ticket included.

Have a nice day!
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post #4 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 4:24 am
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Indoor storage fee of $35 per day. After 30 days it's yours to sell again.

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post #5 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 7:23 am
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saddleman
Indoor storage fee of $35 per day. After 30 days it's yours to sell again.
I'd send that via registered mail, receipt required. Perhaps you could find out what the shipping charges would be and if he sends a check for that amount, just ship it to him.

Take care,
Chris

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post #6 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 9:25 am
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Well, He's already exceeded the amount of time any reasonable person would expect to wait to have it picked up... He's obviously forgotten he's even bought it...A lot can happen in 6 months...

I'd just see what the law provides in such a case and go ahead and sell the bike again...

Especially if you've had NO communication from him since the purchase...

You can't be expected to hold it for him forever...

I'm sure you know a lawyer or two who you can run this by...

If not.. I'm sure my wife's firm can render an opinion..


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post #7 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 9:40 am
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Send the registered letter with a statement about timelines.

Starting on Jan 1, the storage fees will be $100 (or some price worth your while) per month. If the storage fees are not paid within 30 days, the property will be considered abandoned and will be offered for sale. In any case, after 12 months, the motorcycle will offered for sale.

If he doesn't pay storage fees, small claims court could be your friend.

However, I'd guess you'd never get to this point.

Dave
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post #8 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 9:43 am
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

So, Here's the "legal" opinion....This didn't come from me...

Quote:

Do your best to communicate with the Buyer to find out what’s going on. Have you
signed and delivered the title to the Buyer? If you have, it’s clearly his/her
bike. If you don’t hear anything back, tell them that you are going to start
charging them a fee for every day you have to store it.





Don't know what you can do with that.. But since he's a "corporate" type, I'd treat him like any corporation would treat you...Unmercifully....It's obvious nice didn't work...

John


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post #9 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 9:44 am
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Send him an invoice for storage. He get's 60 days free (given he paid you premium price), but start the clock in May. Base the storage charge on what it would cost locally to put the bike in a heated, premium storage unit and just keep invoicing him every month. This gives you some documentation for further actions and officially starts the clock.

Maybe he has MAD (Motorcycle Acquisition Disease...we all understand) and can't come clean with the SO...

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post #10 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 9:45 am
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

I would get legal counsel. Last thing you want is someone with deep pockets coming after you for reselling an asset if they can argue you didn't exercise reasonable effort to accommodate pick up. What may seem reasonable to us, may not be all the law requires. Cross your t's and dot your i's. Make sure you have followed the letter & spirit of the law. ...then resell the bike. good luck.

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post #11 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 10:09 am
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyBob
I would get legal counsel. Last thing you want is someone with deep pockets coming after you for reselling an asset if they can argue you didn't exercise reasonable effort to accommodate pick up. What may seem reasonable to us, may not be all the law requires. Cross your t's and dot your i's. Make sure you have followed the letter & spirit of the law. ...then resell the bike. good luck.
All above responses seem reasonable, but I like BB's most. YMMV.

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post #12 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 10:52 am
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Just a guess but...
I'll be in Peoria weekend after next...you want me to stop by his house and give him the WTF?

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post #13 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 10:54 am
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Or return his money and start all over again.........it should not matter whether he is wealthy or not for you to do what is most appropriate. It is still your bike, in your possession, there is no written contact, though there may be a verbal one. It seems like the easy thing to just take his money. But it is just as easy to send the money back. Just my two cents.
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post #14 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 12:04 pm
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralem
Or return his money and start all over again.........it should not matter whether he is wealthy or not for you to do what is most appropriate. It is still your bike, in your possession, there is no written contact, though there may be a verbal one. It seems like the easy thing to just take his money. But it is just as easy to send the money back. Just my two cents.
Bologna!
He has a contract.

Offer, acceptance and consideration! A contract can be oral, implied or written.

At its most basic level a contract is an agreement between two parties whereby one makes an offer that is accepted by the other and there is some mutual exchange of value.

Bingo!

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post #15 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 12:42 pm
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Yeah, but don't forget that he's a CEO of a large company and if things get nasty he can probably bury Ron in legal fees. Sometimes you just gotta walk away.

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post #16 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 4:15 pm
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

I bet his wife found out he bought a bike.
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post #17 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 5:24 pm
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Ron: First I assume there is no written contract that addresses any of these concerns. Assuming that to be the case, any written exchanges between the parities in the form of e-mail of otherwise may be construed as providing otherwise missing terms for the purchase contract.

Where a contract does not address issues that later become the subject of dispute, the law will read into the agreement in lieu of any missing terms provisions that are reasonable and customary for the type of transaction involved. In this case, one of the terms that a court would need to provide (should it come to that) is the missing definition of a "reasonable" time for a buyer to fully perform, including taking delivery. It seems indisputable that such reasonable time has expired. Therefore, the likely conclusion is that the buyer has breached the purchase agreement.

However, until you have at least taken the steps outlined below I would not simply resell the bike. In order to do so in good-faith, I would feel an obligation to disclose the situation to another purchaser and such purchaser might well feel at risk which would affect the sale price if he was even willing to proceed. Notwithstanding the fact that I would not sell immediately and without notice to the buyer, you do have an obligation to mitigate your damages. For instance, you are not entitled to simply store the bike forever and then claim unlimited storage fees when you can minimize those damages by resale.

I would make an additional attempt to contact the buyer. My preference would be an overnight courier service such as Fed Ex since the tracking options and delivery confirmation are superior to a certified US Mail letter. Additionally, while some individuals as a policy do not accept registered/certified mail, everyone accepts Fed Ex. Where Certified US Mail is used, it is a good idea to at the same time send a non-registered letter by regular US Mail.

The buyer should be informed that after the expiration of a reasonable time for completion of the transaction (which reasonable time expired long ago) you presume that he does not intend to complete the performance of the purchase contract. If you do not receive a response within 10 days, you will conclusively determine such to be the case. At that time, you will re-advertise the bike and attempt to finalize a sale in at least the same amount as was agreed upon in your purchase contract with him. Upon the conclusion of that sale, you will deduct the cost of placing the new add and any shortfall between the amount of the new sales price and the price upon which he agreed along with any other damages you have incurred such as the cost of transmitting notice via courier and the cost of returning the remaining balance in certified funds. If, on the other hand he does indeed wish to take delivery, and so notifies you within 10 days, you will be glad to assist in arranging delivery at his expense. I would make the letter friendly and non-threatening while at the same time clearly stating the course of action you intend to follow.

No legal advice here. You asked what others on the Forum would do---this is what I would do. Good Luck. Let us know how it turns out.

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post #18 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 6:00 pm
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

So what you are saying is, notice him and then deduct what it cost you to resell the bike along with expenses from his 4 grand and return the rest..........
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post #19 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 6:14 pm
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralem
So what you are saying is, notice him and then deduct what it cost you to resell the bike along with expenses from his 4 grand and return the rest..........
Exactly--but why say in 24 words what you can use 2400 to say instead?

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post #20 of 31 Old Sep 26th, 2012, 10:23 pm
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

I figured you were an attorney. My attorneys at work always take 20 pages to make up for the one page deals I put together. But I figure it is their job to protect me and the company. I frustrate the heck out of them when I reduce what they say to simple terms.....Words have meaning is what they always tell me so use them
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post #21 of 31 Old Sep 27th, 2012, 12:19 pm
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Ron, I have a great deal of experience in these matters. Ship the bike to me, pre-paid, with the title, and I will handle all the rest for you, no charge. Am I a nice guy, or what?
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post #22 of 31 Old Sep 27th, 2012, 1:15 pm
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpmlt
Ron, I have a great deal of experience in these matters. Ship the bike to me, pre-paid, with the title, and I will handle all the rest for you, no charge. Am I a nice guy, or what?
Aw heck Ron... Send it to me... I'm closer being in CA and all... Same package as Frank's with a little less shipping charges... I'll just make sure that the bike works OK for a couple of years and then I'll try and finagle the final deal for ya... no issues...

What say u?


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post #23 of 31 Old Sep 28th, 2012, 7:15 pm
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Ron, pay no attention to this hoser calling himself "Uncle" anything. He's trying to take advantage of you, and I find it offensive.
Just to help you out, here's what I'm willing to do. I'll send you a Western Union check for $5,000. You go ahead and cash that, then send me back what ever is left over from shipping, in cash of course, and I'll take it from there.
And just to sweeten the deal, if you do this in the next 3 days ( you know I can't do this forever, right? ), I'll have you automatically entered in a sweet Nigerian lottery deal I have been working on. Pretty certain that you'll be a winner.

Yeah, UNCLE MARKY, who's your daddy now?
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post #24 of 31 Old Sep 28th, 2012, 8:40 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpmlt
Ron, pay no attention to this hoser calling himself "Uncle" anything. He's trying to take advantage of you, and I find it offensive.
Just to help you out, here's what I'm willing to do. I'll send you a Western Union check for $5,000. You go ahead and cash that, then send me back what ever is left over from shipping, in cash of course, and I'll take it from there.
And just to sweeten the deal, if you do this in the next 3 days ( you know I can't do this forever, right? ), I'll have you automatically entered in a sweet Nigerian lottery deal I have been working on. Pretty certain that you'll be a winner.

Yeah, UNCLE MARKY, who's your daddy now?
Yeah, you're 100% right about "Unkie" Mark being a hoser... first time I met the guy I walk up to him in a parking lot and say "Hey, how about a beer?" He says "SURE!!" and I hand him an ice cold Fat Tire - right out of my ice chest! Do you think he has EVER reciprocated? HELL NO!

Dear Unkie Mark (just like the Soup Nazi): NO HONDA FOR YOU!

...and then there's his butt buddy Hoss threatening all my MY Harley butt buddies in a parking lot during a ride - but I won't EVEN go there....

TWO hosers - and they're not even CANADIANS!

Butt, back to the dilemma du jour:

I think $200.00 a month storage fee is reasonable, since that's what it would cost if I had to go out and rent a heated and cooled secured locker (which is what my garage is) to store it. I would also think that 30 days from the date of the sale is more than a reasonable time for him to pick it up - so he gets one month for free.

He has "items" that I would be more than willing to apply the amount due for storage in trade for - so I look at that as a win-win. He's not out of pocket extra cash - but can still meet a reasonable obligation at no personal cost to him. I love trading, but mostly I just want him to pick up his goods so I don't have to stress out about it anymore. I'm kind of getting a feeling there may be some personal issues at work here (a divorce?) that may be playing into the scheme of things... I dunno, but it sure is different.

Fed Ex letter sent (good idea, thanks) with a demand to have a shipping agent pick it up within 10 days including a promissory note for $1,000.00 in merchandise credit or I'll consider it abandoned. At that point I'll definitely need to seek a local attorney's counsel - AND - charge him for that as well.

Now, about that Nigerian lottery deal. I want IN on that bad boy. Do you take personal checks?


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post #25 of 31 Old Sep 29th, 2012, 4:48 pm
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpmlt
Ron, pay no attention to this hoser calling himself "Uncle" anything. He's trying to take advantage of you, and I find it offensive.
Just to help you out, here's what I'm willing to do. I'll send you a Western Union check for $5,000. You go ahead and cash that, then send me back what ever is left over from shipping, in cash of course, and I'll take it from there.
And just to sweeten the deal, if you do this in the next 3 days ( you know I can't do this forever, right? ), I'll have you automatically entered in a sweet Nigerian lottery deal I have been working on. Pretty certain that you'll be a winner.

Yeah, UNCLE MARKY, who's your daddy now?
I don't care who ya are.... That right there is funny.

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post #26 of 31 Old Sep 29th, 2012, 5:02 pm
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

How in the FUDGE did I get tied into all of this? Hell I don't like Fat Tires nor HONDA'S!...

And if your Hardlys found anything offensive spewing from my mouth...

Well...
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post #27 of 31 Old Sep 29th, 2012, 6:38 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoswell
How in the FUDGE did I get tied into all of this? Hell I don't like Fat Tires nor HONDA'S!...

And if your Hardlys found anything offensive spewing from my mouth...

Well...

WHHHAaattt - you don't remember telling all those Chromosexuals in Yosemite how scared you were when they showed up in the parking lot - and told us we could all leave now?

I was hiding behind him.

(and for those of you that don't know Hoss he's about 6'6" and, oh, about 275 or so with a WICKED sense of humor. A former Marine. He's VERY scared of Pirates)


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post #28 of 31 Old Dec 11th, 2012, 9:51 am Thread Starter
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Well, I'm no longer perplexed!

The Fed Ex letter got his attention. He arranged to have it picked up shortly thereafter, as in 7 days.

I pointed out to him that I stored it for six months for free, and felt that I should have *some* compensation for baby sitting it that long.

We worked out a gentleman's agreement that I could purchase a $2,000.00 item that his company manufactures for $500.00. In essence $1500.00 in trade. I sent him a check. I got the item just last week. He even paid for shipping and threw in some extras. Cool.

He sent me a nice note back saying that it was the nicest unrestored bike of it's type that he had ever seen. It has found a new home and prominent place in his collection, sadly it will probably never be ridden again.

I love happy endings. Thanks to all for your input and advice.


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post #29 of 31 Old Dec 11th, 2012, 7:57 pm
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
Well, I'm no longer perplexed!

We worked out a gentleman's agreement that I could purchase a $2,000.00 item that his company manufactures for $500.00. In essence $1500.00 in trade. I sent him a check. I got the item just last week. He even paid for shipping and threw in some extras. Cool.

:
OK, Don't keep us hanging, what did he sell you?

Garry

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BMWMOA 117552
2011 K1600GTL RECEIVED April 30th, 2011 @ 1:30 pm
2012 RED KLR650


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post #30 of 31 Old Dec 11th, 2012, 8:19 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

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Originally Posted by garry_kramer
OK, Don't keep us hanging, what did he sell you?

Garry
See picture below.

Multiply times 20 at several hundred yards.
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post #31 of 31 Old Dec 11th, 2012, 11:51 pm
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Re: Perplexed - what would you do?

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Originally Posted by RonKMiller
See picture below.

Multiply times 20 at several hundred yards.
I take it is a lazer sight?

Garry

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