Travel with a handgun? CWP? - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 10:50 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
pauleknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oviedo , FL, USA
Posts: 1,079
Travel with a handgun? CWP?

I was wondering how many of us traveled with a handgun or had a Concealed Weapons Permit and carried while on rides...

Since a lot of us travel solo or even with our SO, do you carry anything for of protection?

Is there a difference between overnight and just casual riding?

Riding after dark vs day time only riding?

I have heard stories, mostly from the few HD guys I am acquaintances with about stopping at an underpass and getting mugged. To be honest I do NOT believe 1.2 the stories, but it did get me thinking.

AS most of you know, I am a solo rider 75% of the time and I am slightly concerned with my physical safety when "stopped" for a rest break, rest area, underpass etc.

I don't have 20+ years of riding under my belt like some of you guys, so I do not truly know the "real" stories from the exaggeration.

Any thoughts?

2009 K1200LT The Черный заяц 2 March '12 -
2008 R1200GSA Dec'11 - March '12 (sold)
2009 K1200LT The Черный заяц Nov '10 - Nov '11 (sold )
2000 K1200LT Flying Purple Mile Eater May '10 - Nov '10 (sold)
2005 VTX1300s Nov '09 - Nov '10 (sold)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
pauleknight is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 11:15 am
Senior Member
 
Samir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Saint Augustine, FL, Saint Johns
Posts: 113
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

No gun here Paul. Although I've been saying for 20 yrs. "Gonna get one". I have been riding for 42 years now and haven't had the need for one yet. Better to have and not need. I think my small can of mace is 20 months out of code. I'm hoping when I do finally pull and try to shoot the mace that it will just squeal and spit and while the guy is bent over laughing I can get gone. Gimme 3 steps. Wasp spray will reach out 20 ft and doesn't wash out as good as mace-I'm told. I think just like riding, be aware of your surroundings and don't put yourself in a pinch.
Samir is offline  
post #3 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 11:15 am
Senior Member
 
DanDiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 4,830
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Just an FYI -

Yesterday, I was involved as back-up (a ride along) in a traffic stop. A motorcycle going 45 in a 25 zone.. I did not see the stop go down, but found out as we arrived that the guy who was wearing colors failed to quickly tell the officer that he was carrying and had a CWP.

As the biker handed the officer his drivers license and registration, he included his CWP. The officer drew his gun and quickly asked him if he was carrying. He said yes and the officer had him assume the position with his hands in the air as the officer asked him where the gun was and the officer removed the bikers gun.

As I found out later, police officers do not mind if you carry, if you have the permit, just tell them immediately that you have a gun if you are ever stopped and have your hands preferably in the air and not moving. The officer will then tell you how he wants the gun and if he is going to get it.

In this situation, after the biker received a speeding ticket, he received the gun back in a bag, in pieces, hollow point bullets out of the clip.

Numerous vehicles were stopped yesterday for speeding and not coming to a complete stop, but the biker was the only one to get a ticket. Many reasons and quite an interesting day. I was involved in a drug bust too.

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

12 K1600 GTL
02 K1200 LT (gone but not forgotten)
DanDiver is offline  
 
post #4 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 11:34 am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Eastern Washington, , USA
Posts: 258
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

I do have a CCW permit but when I carry is at my discretion. Until recently with HR 822 (National Right To Carry) , all states had some kind of reciprocity but it varied by the agreements, now with HR 822 you can carry legally in all states but Illinois. Even if you carry in those states with your current CCW permit, you are still bound by that states firearms laws. Even so, my tendencies are the more guys I ride with the less likely I am to carry, but if I camp on the road I always do. Of course, whenever I think my riding may cross into Canada, all weapons stay home and I even declare my Leatherman every time. That said, I am very comfortable carrying a weapon, 13 years prior service and lots of outside training that keeps the decision to carry very serious. I've seen the other side of the stories with the ankle holsters and the snub-nose .38's and those scare me more than the potential bad guys out there. I have never had to display my weapon, but have seen the show-offs do so and leave the area with what might be seen as "composed panic" as soon as possible when it happens, especially if there is drinking going on. I've been riding with the same group of guys for 15 years and know some that carry as well, no one has ever seen another's weapon in that whole time, yet we all know who has them.

2012 K1600GT

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by david_yancey; Jul 22nd, 2012 at 11:36 am. Reason: Dave decided to use better grammar...
david_yancey is offline  
post #5 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 11:37 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
pauleknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oviedo , FL, USA
Posts: 1,079
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Yesterday in the CWP class the police officer who taught the class said it was a 50-50 call to hand over your license and CWP license during a stop if you were carrying.

I would think that I would hand the both over should I ever be in that situation.

But looking for advice from the collective wisdom of the group.

Maybe the Deputy could chime in?

2009 K1200LT The Черный заяц 2 March '12 -
2008 R1200GSA Dec'11 - March '12 (sold)
2009 K1200LT The Черный заяц Nov '10 - Nov '11 (sold )
2000 K1200LT Flying Purple Mile Eater May '10 - Nov '10 (sold)
2005 VTX1300s Nov '09 - Nov '10 (sold)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
pauleknight is offline  
post #6 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 11:38 am
Senior Member
 
lesn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: new berlin, wisconsin, usa
Posts: 338
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

I am not part of the anti-gun lobby, but is it not true that in most cases...if you are attacked, you may not be able to reach for your gun or that if the perpetrator sees you are reaching for....and he has a gun on you...he may just pull the trigger ?
( just thinking out loud)
lesn is offline  
post #7 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 11:59 am
Senior Member
 
Arby60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Lexington, KY, USA
Posts: 327
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

I have a concealed carry permit and always carry when I ride. I obtained my permit so that I would have the capability of trying to protect my life and those I love in the event of a life threatening encounter. I would not forgive myself if my wife was harmed and I was not prepared to defend her, if circumstances called for it. If I am planning a trip out of state, I research carry laws in the states I will be in and modify my carry methods accordingly. I have never been stopped by a LEO but I would turn off the bike and put the side stand down to let him know I don't plan to run. I would remain seated on the bike with my hands in view on the bars. When asked I would present my drivers license along with my carry permit and await instruction from the officer on what to do next.

2007 K1200LT Hannigan- Blue
2012 R1200GS - Rallye
1973 R75/5 Toaster - Black
Arby60 is offline  
post #8 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 12:21 pm
Old Slow Guy in A Fast Car
 
katnapinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Kyle, Texas, USA
Posts: 8,597
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

I've been stopped a few times & I ALWAYS give the officer my TDL & CHL at the same time. They will ask if I have my gun & where it is just for their safety & mine.

I ALWAYS Carry with two exceptions.
1) Taking a Flight.
2) Going into Mexico or Canada.
Just this morning I went for a little 250 mile ride around the Hill Country & yes my 9 Mil was within reach at all times.

Stevie Shreeve
katnapinn is offline  
post #9 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 12:28 pm
Senior Member
 
wsp310's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Green Bay, WI, USA
Posts: 103
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

If you have a CCW just tell the officer at the start of the contact but never "hand it over" or show it to them when they approach. Leave it where it's at secured. If an officer wants it, they should remove it from a tactical position of advantage. Keep the permit handy and mention it when they approach and ask for your license. Some states don't require a person to tell the officer at the start but this could be embarrasing to you when a weapon is spotted as your getting off or moving to do something else. Good officers are always searching you with their eyes looking for signs of armed individuals.

It's hard to tell when someone is just handing over or drawing down. This could cause a painful case of lead poisoning. It's like getting out of the car and walking back towards an officer. What was once considered common courtesy could be considered a threat in todays challenges.

John Jones
2000 K1200LT Canyon Red
wsp310 is offline  
post #10 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 1:13 pm
Senior Member
 
DanDiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 4,830
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Based upon what I saw, and the two officers reaction, If I carried and was stopped, my hands would be very visible, not moving and I would let the officer know that I had a gun. He will then tell you what he wants to see.

This guy did not, and as it was told to me right after we arrived, it was very tense for a few minutes.

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

12 K1600 GTL
02 K1200 LT (gone but not forgotten)
DanDiver is offline  
post #11 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 2:05 pm
Senior Member
 
fpmlt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,175
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Dan,
With only the info you gave, I'd say the officer overreacted. I've stopped my share of weapons carriers and NEVER put one in that position. Hell, if he's showing you his permit, do you think he was trying to hide something? Not unlike a guy that surrenders, puts his hands behind his head and kneels down - do you really need to slam him into the ground after that? Yes, I was considered a dinosaur when I retired, but watching some of the young guys react like that just pissed me off to no end.
As to carrying a weapon? I've been retired for over 10 years now, and haven't even handled my Glock since retiring. Don't carry, not even on the bike. I do, however, have a can of capstun in my oddments box.
One fantasy of mine is to be harassed by colors flying bikers. My dream is to move ahead of them, fog the air with a whole can of that shit, and watch them go down behind me
fpmlt is offline  
post #12 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 3:01 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
Patric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Zephyrhills, Florida USA
Posts: 1,424
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Just a thought, A car fire extinguisher might be something to carry. I set my wifes close dryer on fire...3 times one day wile working on it...looong story... Anyway that extinguisher stuff is nasty. If some one was shot in the face with it, it would not be a good day for them.

Besides, fires happen all the time... You never know when you will need a fire extinguisher.

Patric Blackman
2002 K1200LT/Hannigan2+2
2010 R1200GSA ...1987 Helix...
AMA Charter Lifemember
37 Year Member of both BMWMOA & BMWRA

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Patric is online now  
post #13 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 3:07 pm
Senior Member
 
fpmlt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,175
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

If one were looking for an alternative to capstun, pistols, etc., wasp killer is #1. Directional spray pattern, 15' range, and flat nasty. One never knows when one might be attacked by an errant band of wasps.
fpmlt is offline  
post #14 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 3:31 pm
Senior Member
 
DanDiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 4,830
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpmlt
Dan,
With only the info you gave, I'd say the officer overreacted.
That is always possible, but since I I was not at the actual stop, my comments were from what I observed 2-3 minutes later. For some reason the officer who made the stop was not happy with the reaction of the biker. He told me later that if he had just told him initially that he was carrying, there would not have been a problem. I'm guessing that it took to long to learn.

The officer was a reserve officer with over 25 years of experience. It was a unique experience for me!

OK Paul, revolver or automatic?

Dano
Tampa, Fl.

12 K1600 GTL
02 K1200 LT (gone but not forgotten)
DanDiver is offline  
post #15 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 4:02 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
pauleknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oviedo , FL, USA
Posts: 1,079
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

So I was thinking a Kal-Tec 9mm.



It is VERY small...

Fits nicely in my tank bag...

2009 K1200LT The Черный заяц 2 March '12 -
2008 R1200GSA Dec'11 - March '12 (sold)
2009 K1200LT The Черный заяц Nov '10 - Nov '11 (sold )
2000 K1200LT Flying Purple Mile Eater May '10 - Nov '10 (sold)
2005 VTX1300s Nov '09 - Nov '10 (sold)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
pauleknight is offline  
post #16 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 5:35 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
deanwoolsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Topeka, KS, USA
Posts: 3,105
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

There ain't nothing fair about a gunfight.
Someone who is going to shoot you will just pull their weapon and begin shooting.
Someone who is going to shoot you will not tell you they have a carry permit.
Someone with a carry permit is probably the last person who would shoot you.
Some officers enjoy pulling their weapon and use any excuse to do so.
The reserve officer over-reacted in my opinion.
Seen it a hundred times.
I carry pretty much all the time when I can legally.

The sad thing is that now the biker guy likely thinks the officer is "a dick" and is maybe less likely to help out sometime if the opportunity presents itself. For what it's worth, there have been recent cases where officers were disciplined ar charged criminally for pointing their weapons at people without proper justification.

http://www.dewittobserver.com/main.a...ArticleID=5384


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
deanwoolsey is offline  
post #17 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 5:46 pm
Senior Member
 
Slammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Basel, , Switzerland
Posts: 445
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Oh..oo..kayyy! I know that this is a American thing (seen from a Euro eye) but why? For god's sake.. Just think of the consequences. A baddy stops you with a drawn fire arm. by the time you get your Wumme from out of your suddenly voluminous biker rags, ratched a round (nobody in their right mind would carry a arm with one up the spout and hammer cocked stuck in a waistband) you would find yourself so full of lead it would make you want to lay down.
Also don't you thing that carrying would be a cause to escalate.

Without men civilization would last untill the oil needs changing.
Slammer is offline  
post #18 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 6:16 pm
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Martinsville, IN, USA
Posts: 90
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Better check again on HR 822. Passed the House, but still to go before the Senate. If passed, all states with carry permits will be required to recognize any other states permit. Same as drivers license are now honored in every state. Permit reciprocity is an ever changing puzzle at this point. Some states honor some other permits some not. No consistency what-so-ever.

I carry everywhere I'm legal. Always. Maybe it's a Vet thing. I have a resident permit from my own state and a nonresident permit from another. Allows me to carry in most states. LEO buds could care less if someone is carrying legally. At a minimum, a carry permit holder has been veted by local law enforcement as never having had a felony and most states require some sort of training. I've never had an encounter with a LEO while carrying. If I did, I'd keep my hands where he could see them and tell the officer that out of concern for my safety as well as his I am a conceal carry permit holder and am armed. I would tell him where the hand gun was located, and ask him how he/she would like me to proceed.

We live in crazy times. Aurora, CO for example. I have no way to know if I could have helped. I do know I would have been helpless if not armed.
rcockrum is offline  
post #19 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 6:20 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
pauleknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oviedo , FL, USA
Posts: 1,079
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slammer
Oh..oo..kayyy! I know that this is a American thing (seen from a Euro eye) but why? For god's sake.. Just think of the consequences. A baddy stops you with a drawn fire arm. by the time you get your Wumme from out of your suddenly voluminous biker rags, ratched a round (nobody in their right mind would carry a arm with one up the spout and hammer cocked stuck in a waistband) you would find yourself so full of lead it would make you want to lay down.
Also don't you thing that carrying would be a cause to escalate.

Slammer, I think that most who would carry legally know not to draw if the bad guy has his weapon already drawn and pointed at you. Agreed that this is not the wild west and not the TV where you can dodge bullets.

The point would be to only pull your weapon when the bad guy has the opportunity, intent and capability to inflict bodily harm on your or another human and your life, or the life of someone else is in immediate danger. PERIOD

Before you get to this point you you can:
1. De-escalate or withdraw when possible
2. ONLY expose your weapon when you are threatened and you can effectively protect yourself or the other person.
3. Drawing your weapon has consequences and you can defend your reason for drawing.
4. And yes, most who would carry would have a round in the chamber and ready to fire.

I know that it is different in other parts of the world. At the same time, hand gun ownership in the US is over 50% by some counts and that is self reported counting. Of course only a small fraction are legally allowed to "carry".. in 2010 Florida had approx 20Million residents and approx 5% of those had a concealed weapons permit.


I did not have the intent to get into the moral arguments over gun laws, gun permits, shot to kill, risks, etc.

I was only looking for some "input" from a group I would consider as individuals who I identify with closely and share a common "hobby" or "lifestyle" and their take on carrying a gun legally while on the road crossing this country of ours as a safety precaution.

My wife is not 100% in favor of the idea of a "gun in the house" and neither am I but to she somewhat supports the idea of me having some protection as I ride up or down 1-95 , I75 to Atlanta, or I-10 in the early morning hours or late evening as the case my be...

I started this by stating that I have heard stories and that I have my doubts to the validity of those stories, but wanted to hear from the collective..

I would still like any other comments and ideas..

Thanks in advance.

2009 K1200LT The Черный заяц 2 March '12 -
2008 R1200GSA Dec'11 - March '12 (sold)
2009 K1200LT The Черный заяц Nov '10 - Nov '11 (sold )
2000 K1200LT Flying Purple Mile Eater May '10 - Nov '10 (sold)
2005 VTX1300s Nov '09 - Nov '10 (sold)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
pauleknight is offline  
post #20 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 6:21 pm
Senior Member
 
dthogey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kalkaska, MI, USA
Posts: 1,149
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

I have a permit but have not yet carried my 9mm with me on the bike.

David Hogerheide

2015 K1600GTL
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2009 K1200LT (traded for GTL)
1984 Kawasaki Spectre: long gone
BMWMOA# 163123
BMWRA member
AMA member
Saddle sore 1000 Sept 2011
Bun Burner 1500 Sept 2011

CCR 2012 Duluth, MN
CCR 2014 Chattanooga, TN


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dthogey is offline  
post #21 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 8:33 pm
Senior Member
 
Arby60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Lexington, KY, USA
Posts: 327
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauleknight
So I was thinking a Kal-Tec 9mm.



It is VERY small...

Fits nicely in my tank bag...
Ruger LC9 is a good choice as well, in that size.

2007 K1200LT Hannigan- Blue
2012 R1200GS - Rallye
1973 R75/5 Toaster - Black
Arby60 is offline  
post #22 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 9:13 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: , ,
Posts: 110
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

I have had my CWP for a little over six years and my Glock Model 30 goes everywhere I go as long as it is legal to carry. The little wifey and I put a lot of miles on the LT and I cringe at the thought of being stuck on the side of the road at night with some kind of failure and no way to protect us if everything goes sideways. These are bad times that we live in with a lot of desperate people that have no morals or any regard for another human being.

But, I still believe that situational awareness is your best defense. I never let suspicious looking individuals get too close. I am always aware of my surroundings.


Wayne Mann

Wayne Mann
05 Ocean Blue LT
Randleman NC
WMann is offline  
post #23 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 9:45 pm
Senior Member
 
shuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: , Kansas, USA
Posts: 222
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Some States, like Kansas require classroom training before a concealed carry permit is granted. During this training you are instructed about your rights, your risk and how to avoid using the weapon. The training is excellent...take it. In Kansas you are not required to inform an officer that you are packing protection. Some interesting things we were taught...
1. Always use factory ammo.
2. Always draw attention to a situation (vocalize) so you have witness to the event.
3. Should you be forced to defend your life...when the authorities arrive...offer to surrender your weapon (you will probably never see it again), do not give a statement! Ask to go to the hospital...over and over until the ambulance arrives. Why you ask...well...what do they do for officers that take a life....time off with pay...right. Even these guys need to recover.
4. If you are shaken up and offer the authorities a statement, then CSI comes in and paints a different scenario...guess what...now you are in question. Go to the hospital, seek medical protection and call your lawyer. If you carry...have a lawyer.

While traveling thru Mississippi one day, we stopped to fuel. While my wife was inside, four fellow in a car pulled up beside me and told me to get in...I vocalized...other folks turned around to see what was going on and these guys sped off. I reported it to the local authorities and got out of that town.

Understanding the law is the second most important item next to becoming an expert with your weapon. One round between the eyes saves your life and starts a legal process you wish you had never gotten into...do everything you can to avoid the situation...please.

shuster is offline  
post #24 of 41 Old Jul 22nd, 2012, 10:39 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Weston, Texas, USA
Posts: 231
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lesn
I am not part of the anti-gun lobby, but is it not true that in most cases...if you are attacked, you may not be able to reach for your gun or that if the perpetrator sees you are reaching for....and he has a gun on you...he may just pull the trigger ?
( just thinking out loud)
That is why you practice and train with your weapon so that when it happens you know how to respond. You do not get your permit and then not practice and train. It is like everything else, train and practice. And why would one that is licensed to carry not carry, just like ATGATT, conceal carry all the time.

Last edited by moralem; Jul 22nd, 2012 at 10:44 pm.
moralem is offline  
post #25 of 41 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 2:09 am
Senior Member
 
Slammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Basel, , Switzerland
Posts: 445
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauleknight
Slammer, I think that most who would carry legally know not to draw if the bad guy has his weapon already drawn and pointed at you. Agreed that this is not the wild west and not the TV where you can dodge bullets.
.Thanks in advance.
A well put post. According to some sources Switzerland ranks between second and third place after the US in private firearm ownership, most are military arms, as one, CH has a militia army and two, after service you can have your assault rifle permanently set to semi-auto and take it home.
Even a foreigner with a C permit can own, I have a SIG 57 under the bed however the rules are pretty strict.
However, It would not enter (A 'North' European) peoples heads to want to carry, our main problem is from South Europeans who traditionally (it's forbidden) carry knives
In the armed crime statistics the US comes second after South Africa, Switzerland rates 37th, could this discrepancy result from a more happy go lucky stance on fire arms? This is not an poke at a responsible persons attitude, more or less everybody can get a arm in the US but should everybody have access to weapons?
I don't know.
Of course I have heard the arguments from the NRA (who can forget that daft bugger with the "out of my cold dead fingers") but the arguments don't wash, sadly the NRA with over 5 million members is a vote winner, so I don't expect anything to change soon.

The UK disarmed its population completely, (even the UK olympic team has to go to CH for training, little bit of trivia there.) the result is that gun crime has dropped significantly, almost no longer in the statistics, after the Brady bill passed in the US gun related crime has also dropped.
It seems to connect that a reduction of arms in private households reduces the chance to be involved in a gun related crime.
Less gun related crime reduces the need to carry, positive feedback.

Without men civilization would last untill the oil needs changing.
Slammer is offline  
post #26 of 41 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 8:24 am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Weston, Texas, USA
Posts: 231
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

It is not just about protecting ourselves from others, but protecting ourselves from our government.........
moralem is offline  
post #27 of 41 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 8:42 am
Senior Member
 
BobShirley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wentzville, MO, USA
Posts: 296
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not just about protecting ourselves from others, but protecting ourselves from our government........."

Please tell me that you are kidding.

Bob Schrader
BobShirley is offline  
post #28 of 41 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 9:55 am
Senior Member
 
ibbones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Victoria, TX, USA
Posts: 3,327
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby60
Ruger LC9 is a good choice as well, in that size.
That's what I carry but I have not carried it on the bike. I have a little fear of having a pistol stuck in my waistband. Not a safty issue of the gun being too far away or too hard to reach but, (now hear me out) I think I have a better chance of getting hit or dropping the bike than being held up. If I have a hard chunk of metal in my waistband and fall over on my side, won't that hurt? Could it break a bone or two? even with the gear on, there is still a greater chance of getting hurt from a fall than a need to pull a weapon suddenly.

"BONES" <///><
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2002 K1200LTC--- Belle

"My wife and I have an understanding. I won't try to run her life and I won't try to run mine."
ibbones is offline  
post #29 of 41 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 10:19 am
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Montrose, Pa,
Posts: 198
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

When traveling around the states I usually carry or transport, term and technique will vary depending on what state I'm in. If the state has a high level of reciprocity with Pa then I can carry, if the state has no reciprocity then I can't use my carry permit for concealed carry and then I am transporting according to federal law. Here is how the states relate to my Pa permit.
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

There are no federal provisions that give the average citizen blanket authority for concealed carry, however, there is the Firearm Owner's Protection Act (FOPA) which is Title 27 478.38 in the Code of Federal Regulations. In a nutshell it says if I can own a gun in my home state and I can use that gun in the state where I am going then I have the right to "transport" that gun between the 2, provided it is unloaded and not in the passenger compartment "or" it must be in a locked container.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-200...-sec478-38.xml

But here's the kicker to it, individuals have been arrested in highly restrictive states, like NY and NJ even though they were strictly following the FOPA requirements. Then FOPA becomes your legal defense. Try explaining an unknown Federal Statute to a local cop as he is arresting you.

I carry a KelTec P32. When I am "transporting" on the LT I put it in the mirror compartment in the topcase and lock it. When I'm carrying it is in the console compartment. On the GS it is either locked in the tail compartment or carried in my tank bag. On my VTX I transport it in the toolbox storage area where the owners manual usually goes.






To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
04 K1200LT, 05 F650GS
Enduro is offline  
post #30 of 41 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 11:39 am
Senior Member
 
alstrickland55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Blairsville, GA, USA
Posts: 593
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauleknight
So I was thinking a Kal-Tec 9mm.



It is VERY small...

Fits nicely in my tank bag...
I carry a Baby Browning 25 Auto. It's smaller than a pack of cigarettes but will unload 6 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger.

******

Al Strickland
Blairsville, Georgia
1967 Honda Cub
1972 Honda CB350
1979 Suzuki GS750E
2001 R1150GS (gone -- victim of a Highway 28 curve)
2002 K1200LT Trike (now history, transmission died)
2009 R1200GS
2013 K1600GTL
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2009 K1300GT
alstrickland55 is offline  
post #31 of 41 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 11:54 am Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
pauleknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oviedo , FL, USA
Posts: 1,079
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralem
It is not just about protecting ourselves from others, but protecting ourselves from our government.........

Frankly I am a lefty on politics, but believe in self preservation, self responsibility, etc. I have 99.99% faith in my government for the most part. They are all boobs at the national level, but they are the boobs we got.

SO I am NOT carrying to protect myself against ANY government. Foreign or Domestic...

2009 K1200LT The Черный заяц 2 March '12 -
2008 R1200GSA Dec'11 - March '12 (sold)
2009 K1200LT The Черный заяц Nov '10 - Nov '11 (sold )
2000 K1200LT Flying Purple Mile Eater May '10 - Nov '10 (sold)
2005 VTX1300s Nov '09 - Nov '10 (sold)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
pauleknight is offline  
post #32 of 41 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 12:20 pm
Senior Member
 
icepick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 1,508
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

My carry piece is one or the other of: a Wilson Combat/Rohrbaugh or a Boberg. Both are subcompact 9mm pocket pistols and I have several choices in what I carry them in - modified Meco (San Antonio) pocket holsters being my favorite. Both pistols are hand made. Both are very reliable. Both are striker-fired double action. Another favorite for real small carry needs is a Seecamp .32 in a sharkskin wallet/holster.

Texas requires that you voluntarily give your CHL (CWP) and your license to any LEO at the same time. My lawyer also advises me to keep our hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel or bars as he approaches and advise him that you have a CHL and a weapon (or not) in the car, and where first thing. Do this before he asks you for your license. Then he can retrieve it or not, as he wishes, but he also says ALWAYS let him go get it if he wishes - do not reach for it yourself, even if he says to do so and how to do so. If he does ask, ask him that he verifies that he wishes you to reach for it to surrender it to him. Tell him you prefer that he obtain and safety it in whatever manner he wishes if he can. Then, when he asks you for your license, and only then, tell him " My wallet is in my right rear pocket. Is it all right for me to reach for my wallet?" Reach for nothing without asking beforehand.

Anyway, that is his $.02.

EXCELSIOR !!!

----- Barrett
Free at last!

Austin & Crystal Beach TX, Drummond, WI

CCRs - Hot Springs '01, Santa Fe '02, Breckenridge '04, Jackson '05, Braselton '06, Osage Beach '07, Midway '08, Black Hills '09, Killington '10, Boise '11, Duluth '12, Bend '13, Chattanooga in '14, and Coeur d'Alene in 2015.
icepick is offline  
post #33 of 41 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 12:25 pm Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
pauleknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oviedo , FL, USA
Posts: 1,079
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by icepick578
Texas requires that you voluntarily give your CHL (CWP) and your license to any LEO at the same time. My lawyer also advises me to keep our hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel or bars as he approaches and advise him that you have a CHL and a weapon (or not) in the car, and where first thing. Do this before he asks you for your license. Then he can retrieve it or not, as he wishes, but he also says ALWAYS let him go get it if he wishes - do not reach for it yourself, even if he says to do so and how to do so. If he does ask, ask him that he verifies that he wishes you to reach for it to surrender it to him. Tell him you prefer that he obtain and safety it in whatever manner he wishes if he can. Then, when he asks you for your license, and only then, tell him " My wallet is in my right rear pocket. Is it all right for me to reach for my wallet?" Reach for nothing without asking beforehand.

Anyway, that is his $.02.
All of this is advice worth much more than .02 cents...

2009 K1200LT The Черный заяц 2 March '12 -
2008 R1200GSA Dec'11 - March '12 (sold)
2009 K1200LT The Черный заяц Nov '10 - Nov '11 (sold )
2000 K1200LT Flying Purple Mile Eater May '10 - Nov '10 (sold)
2005 VTX1300s Nov '09 - Nov '10 (sold)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
pauleknight is offline  
post #34 of 41 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 2:58 pm
Lifetime Supporter
 
PMitchell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hudson, OH, USA
Posts: 2,878
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Posted by Slammer ; "The UK disarmed its population completely, (even the UK olympic team has to go to CH for training, little bit of trivia there.) the result is that gun crime has dropped significantly, almost no longer in the statistics, after the Brady bill passed in the US gun related crime has also dropped.
It seems to connect that a reduction of arms in private households reduces the chance to be involved in a gun related crime.
Less gun related crime reduces the need to carry, positive feedback."


The last time I was in London I noted that ID was required (and a minimum age) to purchase any knife, even kitchen cutlery. The reasoning, I was told, was that with the ban on firearms, the bad guys turned to knives.

I don't look for trouble and hope not to find it, but if I have an uninvited guest gaining entry . . .

btw, I don't carry when riding. Oops an exception . . . had a death threat that was investigated by the FBI due to a fired employee who used a communications device that passed over a state line. They investigated and scared the S*%t out of him.

pm
--
Life is too short to do anything
other than that about which you
are absolutely passionate . . .
Ride till you can't!

"Der Weg ist das Ziel"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2011 South Africa
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


2014 The Dolomites of Italy, Alps of Switzerland & Austria and returning to Milan via the "Gold Coast" of the French Riveria.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


2016 Spain & Portugal
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


2018 Central & Eastern Europe: Slovenia, Austria, Poland,Hungary, Czech Republic & Slovakia!

'18 R1200RTW
'00 K1200LTC (Dealer is taking on consignment!)
'90 K75-Sold to a new BMW owner (2016)
'62 R 50/2 (Rode hard and put away wet)-Sold in '81
'63 Vespa 150 (1st and only dirt bike!)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sold in '67


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PMitchell is offline  
post #35 of 41 Old Jul 23rd, 2012, 7:17 pm
Senior Member
 
6speedTi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
Posts: 1,029
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Depending how far I'm traveling and for how long I usually carry my Kal-Tek 380 on short trips which is every time I leave the house. If I go on a day trip or several days then I compliment my Kal-Tek 380 with a Glock 40. They get along just nice with each other. All joking aside I hope I never have to shot another person in my lifetime but shit happens. That's why I always carry.

2012 R1200RT
1985 T5 Vespa
2007 Piaggio X9 500 EVO
6speedTi is offline  
post #36 of 41 Old Jul 24th, 2012, 7:00 am
Senior Member
 
icepick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 1,508
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMitchell
Posted by Slammer ; [I]"The UK disarmed its population completely, (even the UK olympic team has to go to CH for training, little bit of trivia there.) the result is that gun crime has dropped significantly, almost no longer in the statistics, after the Brady bill passed in the US gun related crime has also dropped.
It seems to connect that a reduction of arms in private households reduces the chance to be involved in a gun related crime.
Not necessarily, but if you selectively look at data, you can find anecdotal information to support most any position. The problem is in the statement, "...it seems to connect...."

"The fact is, Britain is a country with stronger gun control laws than the United States, and lower murder rates. But Mexico, Russia and Brazil are also countries with stronger gun control laws than the United States -- and their murder rates are much higher than ours. Israel and Switzerland have even higher rates of gun ownership than the United States, and much lower murder rates than ours.

Even the British example does not stand up very well under scrutiny. The murder rate in New York has been several times that in London for more than two centuries -- and, for most of that time, neither place had strong gun control laws. New York had strong gun control laws years before London did, but New York still had several times the murder rate of London.

It was in the later decades of the 20th century that the British government clamped down with severe gun control laws, disarming virtually the entire law-abiding citizenry. Gun crimes, including murder, actually rose as the public was disarmed.

Meanwhile, murder rates in the United States declined during the same years when murder rates in Britain were rising, which were also years when Americans were buying millions more guns per year.

The real problem, both in discussions of mass shootings and in discussions of gun control, is that too many people are too committed to a vision to allow mere facts to interfere with their beliefs, and the sense of superiority that those beliefs give them.

Any discussion of facts is futile when directed at such people. All anyone can do is warn others about the propaganda."

EXCELSIOR !!!

----- Barrett
Free at last!

Austin & Crystal Beach TX, Drummond, WI

CCRs - Hot Springs '01, Santa Fe '02, Breckenridge '04, Jackson '05, Braselton '06, Osage Beach '07, Midway '08, Black Hills '09, Killington '10, Boise '11, Duluth '12, Bend '13, Chattanooga in '14, and Coeur d'Alene in 2015.
icepick is offline  
post #37 of 41 Old Jul 24th, 2012, 7:16 am
Senior Member
 
Slammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Basel, , Switzerland
Posts: 445
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by icepick578
Not necessarily, but if you selectively look at data, you can find anecdotal information to support most any position. The problem is in the statement, "...it seems to connect...."

"The fact is, Britain is a country with stronger gun control laws than the United States, and lower murder rates. But Mexico, Russia and Brazil are also countries with stronger gun control laws than the United States -- and their murder rates are much higher than ours. Israel and Switzerland have even higher rates of gun ownership than the United States, and much lower murder rates than ours.

Even the British example does not stand up very well under scrutiny. The murder rate in New York has been several times that in London for more than two centuries -- and, for most of that time, neither place had strong gun control laws. New York had strong gun control laws years before London did, but New York still had several times the murder rate of London.

It was in the later decades of the 20th century that the British government clamped down with severe gun control laws, disarming virtually the entire law-abiding citizenry. Gun crimes, including murder, actually rose as the public was disarmed.

Meanwhile, murder rates in the United States declined during the same years when murder rates in Britain were rising, which were also years when Americans were buying millions more guns per year.

The real problem, both in discussions of mass shootings and in discussions of gun control, is that too many people are too committed to a vision to allow mere facts to interfere with their beliefs, and the sense of superiority that those beliefs give them.

Any discussion of facts is futile when directed at such people. All anyone can do is warn others about the propaganda."
Quite true what you write, however what skews the stats is that after the ban the rise in gun crime that you mentioned down in the following years, also distorting the stats is that there was and is a rise in so called "no go areas" of London, Birmingham etc.
The general population on they other hand by now doesn't want a return of firearms in public hands, government Propaganda "re-educated" them a long time ago.

Without men civilization would last untill the oil needs changing.
Slammer is offline  
post #38 of 41 Old Jul 24th, 2012, 1:48 pm
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Tx, USA
Posts: 73
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Just my two cents here. Have a CHL and carry anytime I'm out, unless I am going somewhere that I am not allowed. Anytime I am stopped by an officer I proceed as follows:
1. Put down kickstand
2. Turn off bike, extend key in left hand and drop it on the ground
3. Remove helmet
4. place hands on handlebars and wait for officer to approach
5. when officer arrives (looking quizzical) inform him/her that I have a CHL and am/not carrying.

Too many cases of riders waiting till the officer is out of the car and then speeding off. I try to do as much as I can to visually let them know that I aint going nowhere!!

Don't know if it is relevant, but since adopting this practice, have never received a ticket.
Tiger955 is offline  
post #39 of 41 Old Jul 24th, 2012, 3:54 pm
Senior Member
 
Gruivis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Alpharetta, GA, USA
Posts: 1,154
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Traveling cross country with a weapon is a real pain in the ass and it doesn't have to be that way.

On my last trip I had to purchase low capacity magazines to conform to California and change out my Critical Defense rounds for something less effective. While riding through several states I had convert from conceal carry to federal firearms transport standards.

This doesn't make anyone safer, it's just a hassle for law abiding citizens. Does anyone think that a criminal is going change how they carry just because they crossed state lines?

But just to be clear if someone stole my bike a gun point I'd try to talk my way out, walk away or anything else besides shooting back. A thing is not more important then an human life, even a scumbag.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Airwolf - 2018 K1600GTL (planned acquisition!)
2005 Charcoal LT - 48K
2003 Antracite LT - 76K
2001 R1200C 24K
1999 Honda Magna - 5K (RIP)
Gruivis is offline  
post #40 of 41 Old Jul 28th, 2012, 9:42 pm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Montrose, Pa,
Posts: 198
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Just some info I recently came across.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf GAO REPORT ON STATES' GUN LAWS.pdf (316.1 KB, 63 views)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
04 K1200LT, 05 F650GS
Enduro is offline  
post #41 of 41 Old Jul 29th, 2012, 5:20 pm
Senior Member
 
gunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kings Mountain, NC, USA
Posts: 3,089
Re: Travel with a handgun? CWP?

Yes, have a CC permit, have had one for well over 20 years. Have never had the need to pull it out and hope that trend continues.

Don't always carry when I ride, usually do. Have never been stopped while packing but have gone through check points, never an issue or problem.

Carry it on my person, not much good if it's on the bike and we get separated.

Slammer, don't believe everything the news media tells you. A lot of perception folks in Europe have seems to be from watching too much TV, it ain't like that at all.

Old saying is "An armed society is a polite society" A whole lot of truth in that.

B D R

Last edited by gunny; Jul 29th, 2012 at 5:57 pm.
gunny is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW Luxury Touring Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
If you like to travel... RonKMiller Chit Chat 7 Aug 11th, 2011 9:11 pm
Why only ferries to travel? ashleygerrald Europe 3 Jul 20th, 2009 7:08 am
The Joys of Travel Hilton Curve Cowboy Reunion 5 Aug 31st, 2006 11:56 am

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome