Lady almost bought the farm. - BMW Luxury Touring Community
 
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post #1 of 22 Old Jun 19th, 2012, 3:36 pm Thread Starter
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Lady almost bought the farm.

Sunday afternoon I was in my SUV towing our boat with my son and noticed two BMW bikes as we passed through the village of Skaneateles. A man riding a larger GS and a woman on a GS650 were getting ready to pull out of a parking spot as we passed by. There was a lot of traffic going through the village so they didn't pull out directly behind us.

About three miles outside the village we are on a state highway I'm going 62mph in a 55mph zone. There are several very short but steep hills in this section of road so I'm making sure to keep my 9500# of SUV/Boat going steady speed. Some of these hills actually have a short climbing lane but I just stayed in the main travel lane. Going up one of these hills the guy on the bike passes me in the climbing lane but he does it very slowly and cuts back into my lane at the crest of the hill where the climbing lane runs out. He was only about 15 feet in front of me when he pulled back in. My first thought was that if he was in that much of a hurry he should have hammered the throttle and left himself more room to get back in the travel lane. He settle in the lane ahead of me about 40 yards ahead but the woman is now behind me.

A couple of hills later the woman tries the same move by passing in the climbing lane and pulls back into the travel lane about three feet in front of me as we crest the hill......blasting her horn. I returned the horn blast. I couldn't believe how slow she was trying to pass, even my son made a comment.

I slowed down to get some space between her and myself.....she then starts slowing down, no brake lights but definitely slowing quickly. I don't know if she braked, downshifted or just let off the throttle but I was doing all I could to slow down and braking pretty hard but the combination of the down hill descent and the boat I was towing I got close VERY quickly.

At this point I'm going down hill with a double yellow line around a partially blind corner. I was literally within 1 foot of running into this woman and had to swerve into the other lane (speed was down to about 35mph). I'm now beside her with no place to go, I hit the gas to get back in front. Fortunately I passed her and got back into the correct lane without any oncoming traffic. What the lady probably doesn't know is that I was watching for oncoming cars and if anything was coming I was moving back into the travel lane regardless of where she was.

My son was in the truck with me and there is no way I was going to risk a head-on collision with him in the car.....the lady would have been killed instantly. She has no idea and the guy that left her behind has no idea either. BTW 1/2 mile later I turned off that road....and I thought I didn't have enough patience.

Please be careful out there!

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post #2 of 22 Old Jun 19th, 2012, 4:54 pm
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

She was lucky a fellow rider showed some compassion. Maybe her "guy" that left her behind is trying to lose her for good.

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post #3 of 22 Old Jun 19th, 2012, 5:27 pm
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

Wow, some times as riders we don't appreciate the effect momentum has. She obviously isn't a physicist, but I hope she lives long enough to learn the fine art of staying out of the path of large vehicles. Sometimes we end up acting as protectors of those who are oblivious to the danger they create. Let's be careful out there.

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post #4 of 22 Old Jun 19th, 2012, 6:37 pm
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

Just curious. Why do you ride in the regular lane while towing and going slow you should have been in the right (passing) lane?

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post #5 of 22 Old Jun 19th, 2012, 10:08 pm
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

You only have to pull to the right IF your vehicle won't maintain the speed limit up the hill. You read that he was going 62 in the 55, right? The motorcyclists, if you can call them that, were foolish for not leaving room between them and the truck. I've never seen a motorcycle that wouldn't accelerate faster than most any other vehicle on the road. That's one reason we ride them, is it not?

Those riders probably wouldn't tell you, but thank you for not mashing them flat. Nobody deserves that, but it sounds like they were riding while STUPID!

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post #6 of 22 Old Jun 20th, 2012, 6:39 am
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

I would say you were the problem stay right if there is faster traffic. Forcing people to pass on the right because it is more convenient not to move right and then complain, WOW!!

Gerhard

P.S. Most if not all hills that have that type of lane are accompanied by a sign that says STAY RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS, says nothing about unless you are exceeding the posted speed by 7 mph.

Last edited by gerhard; Jun 20th, 2012 at 7:53 am.
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post #7 of 22 Old Jun 20th, 2012, 7:03 am
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevincook

I slowed down to get some space between her and myself.....she then starts slowing down, no brake lights but definitely slowing quickly. I don't know if she braked, downshifted or just let off the throttle but I was doing all I could to slow down and braking pretty hard but the combination of the down hill descent and the boat I was towing I got close VERY quickly.
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The company no longer makes it, but I've always thought that it was a nice safety feature and wondered why it was not standard on all bikes. I can't even locate someone who presently makes them.

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post #8 of 22 Old Jun 20th, 2012, 9:36 am
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

I think I too lean toward thinking that the towing vehicle should have moved to the right. I do understand 62 in a 55 etc., but who decided that 62 was the appropriate speed to force everyone else to go?
I ALWAYS stay to the right, regardless of my speed, unless I'm passing or overtaking. I do not consider myself the speed limit monitor out there. Especially when it's a motorcycle coming up behind me. I know how much it pisses me off when someone decides to check my speed (on my bike) by riding the left lane at whatever speed he or she decides is appropriate.
And my opinion is by no means a commentary on the manner in which the riders made their pass or how they acted afterwards.
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post #9 of 22 Old Jun 20th, 2012, 9:55 am
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

The horn blast was no doubt because you weren't in the right lane, where you should have been. The idea that "because I'm driving the speed that I think is appropriate, I shouldn't have to move over"...I'm sorry, but that's BS. Non-passing traffic should go to the right. Period.

There may be a shred of logic that says if you're going the speed limit, then you don't allow for those going faster than the speed limit. I think it's a flawed logic, but at least there's a shred. If you're going FASTER than the speed limit, then why are you the official arbiter of the appropriate speed? What if they wanted to go 63, instead of the 62 that you decided to go? Does that mean that they shouldn't be allowed to pass?

They likely were holding back, waiting for you to pull over, so they didn't get right beside you and have you pull over into them.

If I had been in their position, I would have blown by you at about 80 and been flipping the bird as I did it. Sorry if I sound rude, but you touched on one of my pet peeves. You put them in a dangerous situation. They may not have handled it very skillfully, but the problem started with you.
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post #10 of 22 Old Jun 20th, 2012, 10:41 am
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

The rules of the road must be very different in your part of the country. They are called "Passing Lanes" around here and you are required to stay to the right except when passing. I have to admit that I sure wouldn't like your "Climbing Lanes".

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post #11 of 22 Old Jun 20th, 2012, 11:02 am
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reelman
The rules of the road must be very different in your part of the country. They are called "Passing Lanes" around here and you are required to stay to the right except when passing. I have to admit that I sure wouldn't like your "Climbing Lanes".
Everywhere I've ridden/driven, no matter what they're called, there will be a sign that says "keep right except to pass" or "slower traffic keep right". I have yet to see one that says "keep right unless you think you're going fast enough". Or even "keep right unless you're going at the posted limit".
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post #12 of 22 Old Jun 20th, 2012, 11:40 am
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

Controversial
I am giving KC the nod. And here is why:
Passing is a reading skill (pass when safe to do so)
Hey in the US passing is never done on the right (2 lane road way)
Again reading signs (slower traffic keep to your right) 62 in a 55 is not slower.
Those lanes as KC stated are tied in to all of the above.
I don't know who had a better knowledge of the area but the rider on the 1st bike started the problem and compounded the chain of events after. Thankfully the female rider couldn't afford the farm.
The big GS should have been patience and chose a safe moment for passing. Also in group riding (2 or more) riders should have a common understanding of how they make maneuvers keeping each other safety in mind. So here is what the riders did:
Pass on the right (use the "climbing lane") *
Did not accelerate enough to safely accomplish passing **
And then slow down in front of (truck + trailer + boat) 8k-10k pounds traveling at 60 mph down grade (momentum what were they thinking) ***

That's my take riders in the wrong great there was no harm.
ride safe
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post #13 of 22 Old Jun 20th, 2012, 12:02 pm
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billsmith
Controversial

Again reading signs (slower traffic keep to your right) 62 in a 55 is not slower.
It is slower than the other folks were going. So it IS slower.

And most states that I'm familiar with now use the wording "stay right except to pass". So that's pretty clear.

The only way passing lanes/climbing lanes/whatever you want to call them will work is to stay right unless you're passing. This is the same protocol as for interstates. The folks in Europe figured this out a long time ago.

Otherwise, everyone who feels like they're going the right speed just stays put. Which is everyone, because by definition everyone feels like they're going the proper speed. Then you have the faster drivers/riders having to weave their way from lane to lane to work around slower traffic! Does this sound safe?

I'm not saying the riders handled the situation well. But the whole cluster started because the slower traffic was not staying to the right. They may have f'ed up the pass in the left lane...but at least they'd be doing the predictable, accepted thing...which is to pass on the left, not the right.

Last edited by JimE; Jun 20th, 2012 at 12:18 pm.
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post #14 of 22 Old Jun 20th, 2012, 12:20 pm
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

Bill makes some sense, but I also agree w/ most others here. I've always known them as "passing lanes" though I'm sure I've seen signs referring to them as "climbing lanes". I imagine the meaning/intention is the same- for slower traffic, as well as vehicles pulling trailers to keep right. Common courtesy would urge one to use that lane regardless if the trailer is 400 lbs. or 40K lbs. In Texas, that is the basis for all traffic laws in the Lone Star state- drive courtesily. The premise is if one is doing so, then they are most likely within the law. It's even spelled out in the very beginning of their driver's handbook.

That being said, and as others mentioned, these bikers decided to put themselves and others in unnecessary harm's way.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and it was setting a bad example for his son.

Jeff
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post #15 of 22 Old Jun 20th, 2012, 1:19 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

I understand staying right.....sometimes it doesn't make sense or isn't safe.

I have attached two pictures. The first is an aerial going from right to left on the screen, the second is is looking up the hill using google street view. You see everything in that picture that is the entire hill. There are no signs say to stay right because the lane is too short......there are numerous sections on this road like this. I don't know why they are there because they are too short to be useful unless you happen to get behind a farm tractor.

The climbing lane is only 654 feet long, at 62mph that is 7.19 seconds which is not enough time to move over, have someone pass and then move back into the left lane.

Quick Estimate: (I know I need to use differential equations to solve this but this will get us close enough) If I move right and maintain 62mph and assume the car/bike behind me is 40 feet back which is very close going that fast and let's assume they need to be 40 feet in front of me when I move back into the left lane. Let's also assume they accelerate up to speed in just half a second and do that at exactly the same time as when I move over.

They need to close the 40' behind me, pass me (44') and get 40' in front of me so they need to travel 124' further than I do. That means the person behind me needs to accelerate up to 79mph cresting a blind hill......nobody does it.

There are quite a few sections on this road with 600' to 650' climbing lanes, I've never seen anything like it anywhere else, it doesn't make sense to me or anybody else that uses that part of Route 20.

My original post was meant as a reminder to all of us to not do anything stupid.
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post #16 of 22 Old Jun 20th, 2012, 1:50 pm
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevincook
...I have attached two pictures. The first is an aerial going from right to left on the screen, the second is is looking up the hill using google street view. You see everything in that picture that is the entire hill. There are no signs say to stay right because the lane is too short......there are numerous sections on this road like this. I don't know why they are there because they are too short to be useful unless you happen to get behind a farm tractor..There are quite a few sections on this road with 600' to 650' climbing lanes, I've never seen anything like it anywhere else, it doesn't make sense to me or anybody else that uses that part of Route 20.My original post was meant as a reminder to all of us to not do anything stupid.
Kevin, it looks like from the pic of the aerial view, that these may be for vehicles to merge on and off the road, being the one is right along pathways to harvested fields. One could probably get a better idea by looking at several aerial views of similar sections. Are there corresponding homes/farms/fields being farmed adjacent to each of these "climbing lanes", which might be bad choice of names if this is the case.

That's my initial thoughts looking at least at the images. Even the second one looks like it's for vehicles to safely get out of flow of traffic before turning off the road. Just looking at the pics, I don't think these are suitable for passing on either side for those staying en route.

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post #17 of 22 Old Jun 20th, 2012, 2:40 pm
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevincook
I understand staying right.....sometimes it doesn't make sense or isn't safe.

I have attached two pictures. The first is an aerial going from right to left on the screen, the second is is looking up the hill using google street view. You see everything in that picture that is the entire hill. There are no signs say to stay right because the lane is too short......there are numerous sections on this road like this. I don't know why they are there because they are too short to be useful unless you happen to get behind a farm tractor.

The climbing lane is only 654 feet long, at 62mph that is 7.19 seconds which is not enough time to move over, have someone pass and then move back into the left lane.

Quick Estimate: (I know I need to use differential equations to solve this but this will get us close enough) If I move right and maintain 62mph and assume the car/bike behind me is 40 feet back which is very close going that fast and let's assume they need to be 40 feet in front of me when I move back into the left lane. Let's also assume they accelerate up to speed in just half a second and do that at exactly the same time as when I move over.

They need to close the 40' behind me, pass me (44') and get 40' in front of me so they need to travel 124' further than I do. That means the person behind me needs to accelerate up to 79mph cresting a blind hill......nobody does it.

There are quite a few sections on this road with 600' to 650' climbing lanes, I've never seen anything like it anywhere else, it doesn't make sense to me or anybody else that uses that part of Route 20.

My original post was meant as a reminder to all of us to not do anything stupid.
Nice analysis...very good points. It sounds like those of us who took you to task for not pulling over didn't have the whole picture. So I apologize. Please turn my rant into an appeal for all of us to follow proper lane protocol whenever safely possible; and your story is a good one for all of us who get impatient and do stupid things as a result.
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post #18 of 22 Old Jun 20th, 2012, 8:15 pm
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

Looking at 20 in that area those are for merging traffic and farm vehicles entering and exiting the road. They are not what I would consider a passing lane for anything but a turning or very slow vehicle. ( I knew Kevin wasn't a jerk!)

Glad she made it but will she ultimately survive riding like that?

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post #19 of 22 Old Jun 20th, 2012, 10:34 pm
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

I like to think most of us if not all on this forum are heady people.
But that said I travel a lot car/bike to different states careful here (I did not say more than anyone else) Even before the google pictures I knew what KC was saying. And like John said before me he was on a local 2-lane hwy.20 Those portions of widened roadway are for tractors, farm equipment and the like. They are so short that no one doing the 55 or anything faster is meant to sway right for a few seconds just to let some one else pass. A SUV/truck pulling a trailer with boat loaded have to handle with lots of savvy. At speeds swerving is more dangerous than simply going straight.
Again the motorcyclists should learn the rules of the road and protect themselves rather than take chances with their lives. Luckily KC is both a motorcyclist and driving a RV and great to share this experience with us. It seems like the guy wanted to challenge or show off what he could do with his GS and the female rider followed suit. Hopefully they don't repeat with someone else or some place else.
ride safe
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post #20 of 22 Old Jun 21st, 2012, 10:02 am Thread Starter
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

Glad I could clear that up some. The experience definitely caused an adrenalin rush and my heart rate to shoot up.

I'm not sure what either rider was thinking....they definitely looked like they had the bikes and all the gear to be experienced.

I'm glad everyone got home safe after that incident though.

Kevin

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post #21 of 22 Old Jun 21st, 2012, 11:18 pm
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

Hey Kevin, Thanks for the early summer "Eye Opener". As we all rider this summer, stay alert and pay attention.

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post #22 of 22 Old Jun 29th, 2012, 12:20 am
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Re: Lady almost bought the farm.

I have seen signs that say slower traffic stay right on hills .
If I'm doing the limit with my rv I don't move right..sometimes it is hard and somewhat dangerous to get back in.
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