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post #1 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 2:32 pm Thread Starter
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And Andy was worried about getting asked about his SSN!

Check out what's happening in Kansas!

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/14155275.htm


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post #2 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 3:24 pm
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Big Brother is certainly watching!!!

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post #3 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 3:48 pm
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Quote:
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Check out what's happening in Kansas!

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/14155275.htm
All this and more from the state that has trouble with intelligent design and where babies come from !!!!!

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post #4 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 3:53 pm
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At least it'll help one stay awake whilst riding thru Kansas.



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post #5 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 5:43 pm
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Thumbs down This is my rant

This is one of my hot buttons. I know this opens up Pandora's box, but here are a few thoughts -- and concerns:

I'm not a civil libertarian. At least, I don't think I am, but these things have me concerned. If I was Emperor of the United States I would require every citizen to read (a) 1984 and then (b) Brave New World. Then maybe read (or watch the movie version of) The Minority Report. Lots of people have read 1984, but it seems that no one sees things moving in that direction when, in fact, they are. Fingerprints for a routine traffic stop? No thanks!

In The Minority Report people's activities and location were tracked by retina scanners everywhere. Sure, it was in the name of "convenience" and "commerce", but it was abused. Do YOU want a person, a store, or a government knowing where you are all the time? And I don't subscribe to the idea of "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about".

We can laugh when these concerns are aired, but who will be left laughing when a national ID card, or national scanning program, or national biometrics program, or national tracking is in place? Computer chips embedded "for our safety"? No thank you.

Where is George Carlin when we need him? I'm sure he'll have an opinion on this, in his own inimitable style. The older I get the more I agree with his viewpoints; boil away his foul language, and look past the comedic exaggeration and you'll see some real concerns.

I work in IT (as some of you do), and I know that records that are supposed to be deleted (NICS, for example) are not. Email, cell phone records, cell phone tracking, credit card usage, background check for a firearms purchase... all this electronic info leaves an easily-followed trail and allows the creation of a "dossier" -- a profile, if you will. Yes: I use email, I have a cell phone and use credit cards. Maybe it's time to ditch it all and move to .

Please be gentle with your flames.

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post #6 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 5:50 pm
 
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The truth is...because of all of this technology, Big Brother is already watching way closer than most people think. Cell phones can and are being tracked. Voice conversations are being recorded. Internet traffic can and is being traced. And so on, and so on, and so on . . .
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post #7 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 5:57 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by messenger13
The truth is...because of all of this technology, Big Brother is already watching way closer than most people think. Cell phones can and are being tracked. Voice conversations are being recorded. Internet traffic can and is being traced. And so on, and so on, and so on . . .
It certainly is. In my rant I didn't mean to imply that "oh my gosh, this might happen..." I was trying to say "It's already happening, and where is it going to stop?!"

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post #8 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 6:56 pm
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I beleive I would decline participation in their little game. Got nothing to hide but think this is going too far down that road. I'm a citizen, not a subject.

Saw a sign on the side of the road last week, said:

"Police State Ahead"

Say it ain't so.

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post #9 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 7:06 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
It certainly is. In my rant I didn't mean to imply that "oh my gosh, this might happen..." I was trying to say "It's already happening, and where is it going to stop?!"

I take comfort in the fact that no matter how good the computer program is, keying on code word, actions, and/or movements at this point for there to actually be something done it still takes people to follow up and evaluate the situation. There is over 200 million people in the US and to follow up and evaluate the day to day information on that many people would take about 400 million government workers.

And a lot of the people that would normally be tied in with any actions that might be red flagged are because they are government agents, or officers of the law investigating situations not neccessarily part of situation itself. This would mean there are a ton of red flag investigations investigating other investigators investigating each other in a round robin tail chase.

And when computers become complex enough to not need people to evaluate, The situations in Brave New World, 1984, and Minority Report will not be a problem. It will be more like The Forbin Project, Tron, The Matrix, or The Terminator.
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post #10 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 7:19 pm
 
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Smile Finger Print

The finger print thing doesnt bother me I guess because to get my job I had to give them all 10. The last time I went to purchase a firearm I had to wait an additional time because I have fingerprints on file and have worked cases that involve sensitive security issues and I must be in a file somewhere. Im ok with that and not too worried about putting my print on a citation since some banks require it as well. with Identity theft what it is its certainly understandable. Im not wild about "Big Brother" watching over our every move but there has to be areasonable way to know who you are talking to. I spent the day today with 3 Officers from London, they are really serious about being "Big Brother!"
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post #11 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 7:38 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudCesena
The finger print thing doesnt bother me I guess because to get my job I had to give them all 10. The last time I went to purchase a firearm I had to wait an additional time because I have fingerprints on file and have worked cases that involve sensitive security issues and I must be in a file somewhere. Im ok with that and not too worried about putting my print on a citation since some banks require it as well. with Identity theft what it is its certainly understandable. Im not wild about "Big Brother" watching over our every move but there has to be areasonable way to know who you are talking to. I spent the day today with 3 Officers from London, they are really serious about being "Big Brother!"
Good points. Veterans (myself included) have their fingerprints on file -- at least, I think we all do. Mine were taken during basic training (OK, not just mine -- the whole company's).

I've read that London has a HUGE infrastructure of outdoor/indoor surveillance cameras.

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post #12 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 7:41 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hig4s
...And when computers become complex enough to not need people to evaluate, The situations in Brave New World, 1984, and Minority Report will not be a problem. It will be more like The Forbin Project, Tron, The Matrix, or The Terminator.
Good call on those movies. And these themes (world domination by machines and/or computers; 100% intrusion into personal lives) have been discussed many times in other books and TV shows.

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post #13 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 7:45 pm
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I'm thinking Ecuador might be refreshingly simple - kinda' like the US in the late 1800's in terms of laws and civil liberties.

Only they have better beaches, practically zero crime, smokin' deals on real estate and no taxes for 20 years if you open a tourist related business. Really.

Tour Ecuador and Central America for a week or two on a new GS with Captain Ron at the helm? It could be in your future. RRRRRrrrrrrr.


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post #14 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 7:47 pm
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Don't forget I Robot.
"The three rules are perfect. It will lead to one inevitable conclusion."

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post #15 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 7:50 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
I'm thinking Ecuador might be refreshingly simple - kinda' like the US in the late 1800's in terms of laws and civil liberties.

Only they have better beaches, practically zero crime, smokin' deals on real estate and no taxes for 20 years if you open a tourist related business. Really.

Tour Ecuador and Central America for a week or two on a new GS with Captain Ron at the helm? It could be in your future. RRRRRrrrrrrr.
What a great idea. And we could ride our LTs down there!

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post #16 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 7:51 pm
 
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Exclamation Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKMiller
Tour Ecuador and Central America for a week or two on a new GS with Captain Ron at the helm?
Don't you mean a V-Strom Ron?!? It's practically the same bike at HALF the price?!?!?!
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post #17 of 29 Old Mar 22nd, 2006, 7:52 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwnahas
Don't forget I Robot.
"The three rules are perfect. It will lead to one inevitable conclusion."
and any number of episodes in Star Trek (TOS, TNG, Voyager) ... Remember the M5 computer? It was supposed to replace most of a star ship's crew. Didn't work out too well...

Also thinking of Demon Seed (computer takes over family, progagates itself).

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post #18 of 29 Old Mar 23rd, 2006, 12:51 am
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So when are we leaving for Ecuador???????????? I have been looking at Ron Ayers trips of South America but this may work instead.
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post #19 of 29 Old Mar 23rd, 2006, 1:24 am
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Isn't it interesting that once you are in the system it does not bother you as much. For the last 30 years, every five years I have to go through a complete background investgation. It does help you keep your nose clean, cause if something pops up my job can be on the line. Even a DWI can cause serious repercussions.

For Christmas wife asked what I wanted? New Ruger was my answer, went to the gettin place and picked one out, Clerk said "have to do a background check", I just chuckled and said "No Problem" already knew the outcome, walked out with new pistol.

So sometimes it works for your good.

ps I have a good friend that wont own a cell phone, he freaked at my gps on my bike, I am surprised he has a TV, Cause he doesn't want BB watching, also he does not have computer or I net.

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post #20 of 29 Old Mar 23rd, 2006, 8:26 am
 
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NOGILLS2, In my old job I had the 2 year security check and it scared the hell out of me every time. They only screw those things up 1 in 1000 times is what they told me. One of those times happened to some guy who worked with me. He almost got canned because when they interviewed one of his neighbors, the neighbor thought they were talking about someone else. Took 8 months and a senator to clear it up.

The random alcohol and drug test scared me too. Those got screwed up on a regular basis. They fired a guy who all of us new never drank. About $10k out of his pocket and some fine work from our union got his job back.

But your right about being in the system, It doesn't bother me much, now, as long as that system keeps sending me my retirement check.

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post #21 of 29 Old Mar 23rd, 2006, 6:37 pm
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Bad reporting by KC Star....(Typical!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljeffe
Check out what's happening in Kansas!

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/14155275.htm
So the Attorney General for the State of Kansas was on a local radio talk show this afternoon. The story as reported by the Star is WRONG.

I did not get to hear the entire explanation, but essentially, the laws regarding fingerprinting are not changing, they still have the right .... no, not "right", rather _legal authority_ to take fingerprints for any felony or certain classes of misdemeanors (sp?).

Of course, they still want/have the "right" to collect DNA...http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/1975667.html

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post #22 of 29 Old Mar 23rd, 2006, 6:46 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwnahas
Don't forget I Robot.
"The three rules are perfect. It will lead to one inevitable conclusion."

I Robot, while a well done movie on its own, is actually a complete bastradization of the short stories of Asimov from his book I Robot, and any of the rest of Asimov Robot series novels.. Done completly wrong and out of context with the ideals of Asimov's writing. If Asimov wasn't dead the movie would never have been made.

Asimov's Robot series tied in with his Foundation series and the robots created the Zeroth law,, (which was really screwed up in the movie) and then helped mankind through its thousands and thousands of years of infancy by guiding them from the shadows. At no time in any of the books were robots ever the villians.
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post #23 of 29 Old Mar 23rd, 2006, 7:48 pm
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I recently took the 6 hour class that reduces insurance rates in NYS. We discussed that driving in any state is a privilege not a right. Those that grant that privilege can make the rules. It sucks but that's the law of land.

How long before we start getting issued tickets for speeding by using our ezpass statements?

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post #24 of 29 Old Mar 23rd, 2006, 9:30 pm
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Originally Posted by RVB1019
How long before we start getting issued tickets for speeding by using our ezpass statements?
I heard (correct me if I'm wrong!) that some car rental companies will charge you some kind of fee if they determine you were speeding while renting their vehicle. This determination is made by examing the lo-jack (anti-theft/recovery device -- sp?) record of your travels. OK, I'm a little fuzzy on the details of this, but I do recall hearing about this lawsuit on NPR or something similar. It's been a couple of years.

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post #25 of 29 Old Mar 23rd, 2006, 9:35 pm
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I guess that's why we declared independence from them over 200 years ago.

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post #26 of 29 Old Mar 24th, 2006, 2:01 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hschisler
I heard (correct me if I'm wrong!) that some car rental companies will charge you some kind of fee if they determine you were speeding while renting their vehicle. This determination is made by examing the lo-jack (anti-theft/recovery device -- sp?) record of your travels. OK, I'm a little fuzzy on the details of this, but I do recall hearing about this lawsuit on NPR or something similar. It's been a couple of years.
It cannot be Lojack. Lojack emits an FM signal only (when actiavted) by the stolen vehicle system. So, it either has to be onstar, GPS, or something similiar to those.

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post #27 of 29 Old Mar 24th, 2006, 3:14 am
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There was case where a rental company retrieved the GPS tracking records, then fined the renter $450 for speeding. The last I heard, the lawyers were going at it. Links here and here.

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Some people see the gas tank as half empty. Some see it as half full. All I care is that I know where the next tankful is coming from...
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post #28 of 29 Old Mar 24th, 2006, 7:04 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
There was case where a rental company retrieved the GPS tracking records, then fined the renter $450 for speeding. The last I heard, the lawyers were going at it. Links here and here.
Yep, that was it. Not Lojack, but the onboard GPS.

Thanks, Ken.

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post #29 of 29 Old Mar 24th, 2006, 12:13 pm
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As long as we're on the topic of Big Brother, did you'all hear what's going on in Texjas?

This morning on the Today show, they aired a segment on the Police arresting people who are drunk inside a bar! You can't even tie one on in the hotel bar and stagger upstairs into your room.

While I'm all for arresting the idiots who drink and drive, this is crazy! If you have too much to drink, and you're sitting in a bar waiting to sober up, you can get arrested for public drunkeness?

That's taking things a little too far!

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