Give me liberty or give me death! - BMW Luxury Touring Community
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post #1 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2012, 1:39 pm Thread Starter
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Exclamation Give me liberty or give me death!

Wow! I've been reading some old threads ('06 to '08 +), hoping to get an idea of the mindset of this online "community", and some members nearly scare the wits out of me. Last time I looked, I rode my motorcycle in the home of the brave and land of the free...
But here it often sounds like something out of a communist bloc.

People pissed off about loud pipes and wanting to outlaw them; others ragging on riders running around "dressed like pirates"; still others chiming about how smart they are because they choose to wear helmets, and even some go so far to say they won't ride with others who don't. Of course, the list wouldn't be complete without the teatotallers.

So many people seem to forget the old adage, "different strokes for different folks".

I don't go around publicly ridiculing people who look like something morphed from crossing Safety Dan in his neon pin-stripe suit and the Michelin Man. If I want to ride my Vespa looking like Blackbeard searching for his parrot, then who are you to carry on? As myself and others say- I don't give a rats ass. I'm sure I don't look any stupider than the clowns who walk up and down the streets and everywhere else with their pants down around their asses. Nor any stupider than the jokers in the bleachers at all the professional ball games with their faces and bodies painted and/or wearing their official NFL/NBA licensed jerseys or the white trash and others who think they look sexy wearing thongs or spandex into Walmarts, even though they weigh 300 lbs. and only 5 ft. tall.

If you want to ride a $5000 moped up and down the inter-city highways, then knock yourself out. I'll pull to the right and let you pass, if you're in that big of hurry.

You think you're healthier because you've never drank an ounce of anything with alcohol? I hear placebos work wonders also, but my doctor and other medical reports say some alcohol in moderation is good for me. I guess God wired me differently than you. He also said in so many words everything in moderation is good, whether it's pork, alcohol, snakes, or lobster.

What about those $800 helmets- do they beyond a shadow of a doubt really provide anymore protection than the $200 helmet? Or perhaps you're one to believe something can't be of any value/quality unless it comes with an outrageous price tag (shall we leave the price of our bikes out of this?) If so, I'd say you're one of a lot of people out there who's been sold a lot of snake oil.

Several have complained while debating the idea of loud pipes save lives that their rights are being infringed because they can't sleep or eat where and when they want. Give me a break. Some of these are the same ones who move into gated communities with Home Owner Associations, knowing full well what they're getting into, yet they do so anyway, and then bellyache about it. Unbelievable!

Some of these bizarre thoughts came out of old surveys taken here. Maybe we could do a survey to see how many members either own a BMW and an HD or have owned something "loud" in the past. But go one further and ask of those, how many did not like their loud bike?

I could care less about the legitimacy of loud pipes being safe. I have them on my HD because I like the sound- I like the loudness- Just like everyone's favorite genre of music sounding better when it's played louder- same thing. Of course, too much of anything is not healthy, so again, I go back to moderation. True, I can't adjust the volume of loud pipes, therefore I wear earplugs for extended rides on the HD. When I want to ride and listen to music or maybe peace and quiet, I get out the LT.

How many people here have ever been to the drag races, yet didn't think the noise made nitro burning open header race cars was part of the fun? What about jet airplanes, especially those with afterburners? monster trucks? heavy artillery/tanks for you military buffs? What about a giant manta ray getting airborne then crashing back onto the ocean's surface? Or the sound of a locomotive's horn? How many of you drive through tunnels and occasionally lay on the horn? What about volcano's erupting or the sound of tornadoes, or waves crashing on the beach (acts of mother nature/God)? Again, in moderation- brief instances, it's often enjoyed/pleasurable.

So many members here are wound way too tightly- so much so, I wonder if they squeak when they walk. They remind me of the stereotypical images of aristocrats, who don't seem to know how to have any fun because they think they're better than everybody else and they poop don't stink.

I guessing from what I've read here, my wife and I won't be invited much to socialize or ride with the likes of this community. Good thing we enjoy each other's company.

That's part of the beauty of living in America. Yea, for the most part, we can do whatever we damn well please, as long we're not breaking the law. If we want to look like idiots, it seems to be socially acceptable. If we choose to not wear a helmet because we like the wind in our hair (what little's left), then the great state of Texas and others say I'm an adult, so I can risk killing myself if so desired, as well as my wife, by riding w/o helmets. If we want to open our mouths and remove all doubt about how stupid we are, then we're allowed to do that too. Thank You 1st Amendment! I wouldn't want it any other way. As they say, the govt. who governs least, governs best.
If some of you want to legislate all your liberties and freedoms away, then please do it somewhere else, and leave us American patriots alone!

Just Saying.

Jeff
Big D is my neck of the woods

99 K1200LT (don't need loud pipes w/ 8 spk. stereo)
08 HD wide glide
prior:
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Last edited by bikerj; Mar 16th, 2012 at 1:47 pm.
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post #2 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2012, 1:45 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

I almost always blow my horn in a tunnel..........

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post #3 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2012, 1:49 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kk610lt
I almost always blow my horn in a tunnel..........
Sounds like I might have got an Amen. Thank you brother.

Jeff
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prior:
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post #4 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2012, 1:56 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

My pleasure.

BTW, this forum has many great folks as all forums do.....
And some (a few) crabby folks too. As all forums do....

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post #5 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2012, 2:18 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kk610lt
My pleasure.

BTW, this forum has many great folks as all forums do.....
And some (a few) crabby folks too. As all forums do....
Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of likable people here. I can tell by how willing they are to share their knowledge and stories of adventure.

Attending a CCR or similar function would give one a more telling perspective of how BMW riders/owners behave and interact with others of either like mindedness or not.

I've seen similar mindsets from HD bikers, as well as those on metrics. You have a faction of HD owners who I suppose consider themselves hardcore bikers because they have tattoos, body piercings, ride rigids, and are members of some club or gang, and they bash all other HD owners cause they're clean cut, have white collar professions, and can afford new models. And they have their functions/rallies as well- some are fun and some are free-for-alls.

Just depends on what floats your boat.

Jeff
Big D is my neck of the woods

99 K1200LT (don't need loud pipes w/ 8 spk. stereo)
08 HD wide glide
prior:
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post #6 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2012, 6:25 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

The world would be a much happier place if everyone would stop worrying and caring about what other people do. Life's too short to care what others think.

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post #7 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2012, 8:46 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 05Train
The world would be a much happier place if everyone would stop worrying and caring about what other people do. Life's too short to care what others think.
I disagree, everyone should see that I am right and things the way I do. Maybe there should be laws against people who don't agree. Our government knows what's best for us and enacts laws to protect us for our own good!
Funny thing is how much I appreciate the freedom in Mexico when I go on vacation! My young daughters started driving there just because we could, and no one bothered us.
We go quad riding with just helmets and the rules are very simple: "Have fun and don't break anything!". That simplicity has disappeared in the US where even your dog needs to wear a seat belt...!

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post #8 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2012, 9:08 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!




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post #9 of 57 Old Mar 16th, 2012, 9:26 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

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post #10 of 57 Old Mar 17th, 2012, 4:42 am
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

If he thinks this is a buttoned down, drink the koolaid forum I bet he hasn't visited BMWMOA. And if he des not like it here he doesn't have to be here. He can take his opinions,like an asshole, everyone has one, and go somewhere else.
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post #11 of 57 Old Mar 17th, 2012, 7:13 am
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

I've almost always ridden by myself as I like to go at my own pace, but I know and work with a lot of riders. I never tell anyone else how they should ride, what they should wear, or how their bike should look or sound. Not my business. I like Schubert helmets so I get one every 5 or so years, but I don't think it's my business if someone wants to ride without a helmet. So there are some of us who agree with your sentiments and really I think most of us do. As is usual what you read are the vocal minority and the one's who want to manage everyone's else life seem to be the most vocal.
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post #12 of 57 Old Mar 17th, 2012, 7:20 am Thread Starter
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diolach
I've almost always ridden by myself as I like to go at my own pace, but I know and work with a lot of riders. I never tell anyone else how they should ride, what they should wear, or how their bike should look or sound. Not my business. I like Schubert helmets so I get one every 5 or so years, but I don't think it's my business if someone wants to ride without a helmet. So there are some of us who agree with your sentiments and really I think most of us do. As is usual what you read are the vocal minority and the one's who want to manage everyone's else life seem to be the most vocal.
Can I highjack my own thread? I haven't heard of Schubert helmets prior to this forum- what made you choose this brand over a Shoei, Arai, or any other?

Jeff
Big D is my neck of the woods

99 K1200LT (don't need loud pipes w/ 8 spk. stereo)
08 HD wide glide
prior:
07 HD XL1200C (sold!
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post #13 of 57 Old Mar 17th, 2012, 7:36 am Thread Starter
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralem
If he thinks this is a buttoned down, drink the koolaid forum I bet he hasn't visited BMWMOA. And if he des not like it here he doesn't have to be here. He can take his opinions,like an asshole, everyone has one, and go somewhere else.

Ah Yes, another one of those master debaters from the Big city of Weston, Texas.
While I did mention some of my perceptions of some members here, I was also pointing out my observations of their mentalities. Yes, opinions were formed based on these perceptions, and like people's assholes, they might stink more than others (I said something similar in the original post in so many words) depending upon the accuracy of these perceptions.

Is that why you leave up North in the sticks- cause you don't do well interacting with others?

From one Texan to another.

Jeff
Big D is my neck of the woods

99 K1200LT (don't need loud pipes w/ 8 spk. stereo)
08 HD wide glide
prior:
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post #14 of 57 Old Mar 17th, 2012, 9:33 am
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Most folks are far less important than they think they are,,,,,,,,,each to their own
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post #15 of 57 Old Mar 17th, 2012, 10:34 am
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

The word "bloviator" popped into my head.

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post #16 of 57 Old Mar 17th, 2012, 11:04 am
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

As far as loud pipes, helmet or not, riding apparel & the like, I've always been of the opinion, "It's not what you ride, it's THAT you ride."
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post #17 of 57 Old Mar 17th, 2012, 11:11 am
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

"As myself and others say - I don't give a rats ass."

You treatise would appear to contradict this statement.

It seems like you have cherry picked every negative comment you can find - without regard to the fellowship, good humor and genuinely helpful comments, kind deeds and charitable contributions (over $150,000 in CASH) that have been vastly prevalent in the forum over the years. Why so negative?

Funny how I've made MANY good friends (and met them in person) through this forum over the years. They may dress kind of funny and be Republicans , but I still like 'em.

When you get back from Afghanistan you should attend CCR. I think your opinion would change. I can't think of a motorcycle gathering that I've been to - and I've been to literally hundreds - that has a finer group of people in attendance. Even though you apparently despise us, you are cordially invited:
CCR 2012 Home

All motorcyclists (no matter what they ride - and yes - we have had many Harley riders attend) are welcome.





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post #18 of 57 Old Mar 17th, 2012, 11:12 am Thread Starter
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knife
The word "bloviator" popped into my head.
You're probably right Knife, and that's the reason this country is going to hell in a hand basket because the average guy/citizen doesn't care, thereby giving the pinko-commie liberals all the leeway they need to screw up America by legislating us to death.

But it'll be okay. We'll all get use to driving our mandated electric scooters made in China back and forth to Starbucks, and I'm sure everyone will still get to wear they're neon reflective textile jackets, cause they'll be mandatory as well, along with the lexan bubble that will completely surround the bike and rider, and the beauty of it is it'll be noise-free because the bubble will also prevent sounds from emanating.

Jeff
Big D is my neck of the woods

99 K1200LT (don't need loud pipes w/ 8 spk. stereo)
08 HD wide glide
prior:
07 HD XL1200C (sold!
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post #19 of 57 Old Mar 17th, 2012, 11:28 am Thread Starter
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

This reminds me of a story I heard a few years back regarding either Toyota or Honda developing an internal combustion engine, which produced absolutely zero emissions.

They were going to let any auto manufacturer who wanted to use it free of royalties or whatever the verbiage is (no worries about patent infringement), as their contribution to saving the planet/society/mankind/whatever.

It seems the story goes the manufacturer went to the state of California to get this engine emissions tested/certified. One would think it would be a piece of cake- why not? 0 emissions!
Didn't happen. The officials/agency responsible wouldn't approve the engine because they just could not believe it emitted absolutely no emissions. They went on to say the proof in the results from their own emissions testing equipment was not sufficient, and they claimed it was due to the equipment not being sophisticated enough to detect such small amounts that the engine had to be putting out. The agency said they'd wait until essentially better test equipment could be implemented that would be able to detect such minute quantities the Japanese engine surely was producing.

This is the kind of asinine authority we allow our governments to exercise because too many of us are too apathetic to ensure this nonsense doesn't exist.

Jeff
Big D is my neck of the woods

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08 HD wide glide
prior:
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post #20 of 57 Old Mar 17th, 2012, 12:57 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

bikerj, I just got a chance to get back for a couple of minutes and see you asked me about the Schubert helmets. I like the concept of a modular helmet as I wear glasses and I had worn some other brands when I got a chance to try a Schubert and liked the fit so that is what I wear,
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post #21 of 57 Old Mar 19th, 2012, 4:47 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerj
This is the kind of asinine authority ...
No, it's not, because it's 100% myth. No such engine possible or at least ever designed.

There are no UFOs, either, and the grassy knoll theory is bunk.

There are people out to get you, but they're in cars not watching for motorcyclists. That's about it.

Kent Christensen
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post #22 of 57 Old Mar 19th, 2012, 7:53 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

About the only thing I've really heard so far from the original poster,
is that he believes that everyone on this forum,
is entitled to "his" opinion!

And....yup I know about different strokes etc.
and I don't like loud pipes, never have, never will.
I tried them on my bike when I was much younger and I hated them then,
and still do now,
they are obnoxious and no different than the boom/boom stereo's in cars.
Or a fart at the dinner table, there's no good reason to offend everyone around you.

And yes if you're obnoxious I won't ride with or associate with you,
If you want to be "my friend" I insist that you act responsible and courteously to "everyone"

Nope, I'm not telling you how to live "your life" do as you will,
but if you want to be an asshole just stay the hell away from me.

(not intended as a personal "attack" on you, just a general statement)

In other words: if you're going to "pick your nose" I don't care as long as you do it privately and not in front of me!


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post #23 of 57 Old Mar 19th, 2012, 8:50 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerj
Wow! I've been reading some old threads ('06 to '08 +), hoping to get an idea of the mindset of this online "community", and some members nearly scare the wits out of me. Last time I looked, I rode my motorcycle in the home of the brave and land of the free...
But here it often sounds like something out of a communist bloc.

People pissed off about loud pipes and wanting to outlaw them; others ragging on riders running around "dressed like pirates"; still others chiming about how smart they are because they choose to wear helmets, and even some go so far to say they won't ride with others who don't. Of course, the list wouldn't be complete without the teatotallers.

So many people seem to forget the old adage, "different strokes for different folks".

I don't go around publicly ridiculing people who look like something morphed from crossing Safety Dan in his neon pin-stripe suit and the Michelin Man. If I want to ride my Vespa looking like Blackbeard searching for his parrot, then who are you to carry on? As myself and others say- I don't give a rats ass. I'm sure I don't look any stupider than the clowns who walk up and down the streets and everywhere else with their pants down around their asses. Nor any stupider than the jokers in the bleachers at all the professional ball games with their faces and bodies painted and/or wearing their official NFL/NBA licensed jerseys or the white trash and others who think they look sexy wearing thongs or spandex into Walmarts, even though they weigh 300 lbs. and only 5 ft. tall.

If you want to ride a $5000 moped up and down the inter-city highways, then knock yourself out. I'll pull to the right and let you pass, if you're in that big of hurry.

You think you're healthier because you've never drank an ounce of anything with alcohol? I hear placebos work wonders also, but my doctor and other medical reports say some alcohol in moderation is good for me. I guess God wired me differently than you. He also said in so many words everything in moderation is good, whether it's pork, alcohol, snakes, or lobster.

What about those $800 helmets- do they beyond a shadow of a doubt really provide anymore protection than the $200 helmet? Or perhaps you're one to believe something can't be of any value/quality unless it comes with an outrageous price tag (shall we leave the price of our bikes out of this?) If so, I'd say you're one of a lot of people out there who's been sold a lot of snake oil.

Several have complained while debating the idea of loud pipes save lives that their rights are being infringed because they can't sleep or eat where and when they want. Give me a break. Some of these are the same ones who move into gated communities with Home Owner Associations, knowing full well what they're getting into, yet they do so anyway, and then bellyache about it. Unbelievable!

Some of these bizarre thoughts came out of old surveys taken here. Maybe we could do a survey to see how many members either own a BMW and an HD or have owned something "loud" in the past. But go one further and ask of those, how many did not like their loud bike?

I could care less about the legitimacy of loud pipes being safe. I have them on my HD because I like the sound- I like the loudness- Just like everyone's favorite genre of music sounding better when it's played louder- same thing. Of course, too much of anything is not healthy, so again, I go back to moderation. True, I can't adjust the volume of loud pipes, therefore I wear earplugs for extended rides on the HD. When I want to ride and listen to music or maybe peace and quiet, I get out the LT.

How many people here have ever been to the drag races, yet didn't think the noise made nitro burning open header race cars was part of the fun? What about jet airplanes, especially those with afterburners? monster trucks? heavy artillery/tanks for you military buffs? What about a giant manta ray getting airborne then crashing back onto the ocean's surface? Or the sound of a locomotive's horn? How many of you drive through tunnels and occasionally lay on the horn? What about volcano's erupting or the sound of tornadoes, or waves crashing on the beach (acts of mother nature/God)? Again, in moderation- brief instances, it's often enjoyed/pleasurable.

So many members here are wound way too tightly- so much so, I wonder if they squeak when they walk. They remind me of the stereotypical images of aristocrats, who don't seem to know how to have any fun because they think they're better than everybody else and they poop don't stink.

I guessing from what I've read here, my wife and I won't be invited much to socialize or ride with the likes of this community. Good thing we enjoy each other's company.

That's part of the beauty of living in America. Yea, for the most part, we can do whatever we damn well please, as long we're not breaking the law. If we want to look like idiots, it seems to be socially acceptable. If we choose to not wear a helmet because we like the wind in our hair (what little's left), then the great state of Texas and others say I'm an adult, so I can risk killing myself if so desired, as well as my wife, by riding w/o helmets. If we want to open our mouths and remove all doubt about how stupid we are, then we're allowed to do that too. Thank You 1st Amendment! I wouldn't want it any other way. As they say, the govt. who governs least, governs best.
If some of you want to legislate all your liberties and freedoms away, then please do it somewhere else, and leave us American patriots alone!

Just Saying.

Jeff, I disagree with just about everything you have said. You have taken a very tiny bit and blown it way out of proportion. If you hadn't posted on this forum previously, I'd say you were a troll.

Your rant is like the FD problem. Effects about 4% and not the 96% who I would really like to know better and be associated with. You are way off base.

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post #24 of 57 Old Mar 20th, 2012, 11:52 am Thread Starter
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

For all you dear people who have taken time to read and even reply to this thread, allow me to clarify a couple of things, starting w/ opening paragraph, and please pardon me for how I've quoted these posts because I haven't figured out how to quote several w/in one message as some of the more knowledgable souls here:

"Wow! I've been reading some old threads ('06 to '08 +), hoping to get an idea of the mindset of this online "community", and some members nearly scare the wits out of me....
But here it often sounds like something out of a communist bloc."

I mentioned reading some older threads between 2006 and 2008, and I said some members (not all), and I used the word "often", not "always". I'll admit "often" might be wrong word for frequency.

"Some of these bizarre thoughts came out of old surveys taken here". Again, I tried to not be all inclusive w/ my perspective, as well w/ this quote:
"Several have complained while debating ..."

"So many members here are wound way too tightly..." This statement might be too strong, depending upon how one defines "so many", so I'll admit wrong choice of words.

"...won't be invited much to socialize or ride with the likes of this community..."
I used the word "much" as oppose to "at all", however "w/ the likes of this community" is exaggerated because it does sound like I've lumped in everyone here. I apologize.

This thread is under chit chat partly because there are several topics I mentioned of perspectives I have of some, so please don't get wrapped up around the axles.

RonMiller and Dano, please also reread one of my replies in this thread. I was being sincere and trying to point out there are others in other groups just like here who aren't necessarily an accurate cross sectional representation of their affiliations, but that doesn't make their undesirable:

"Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of likable people here. I can tell by how willing they are to share their knowledge and stories of adventure.

Attending a CCR or similar function would give one a more telling perspective of how BMW riders/owners behave and interact with others of either like mindedness or not.

I've seen similar mindsets from HD bikers, as well as those on metrics...faction of HD owners...they have their functions/rallies as well- some are fun and some are free-for-alls...Just depends on what floats your boat"

Again, just chit chat; hoping to engage others in conversation- sometimes trivial, sometimes provocative, and sometimes to just get us to use the grey matter inside our noggins. Same conversation could be heard at the local bar, RTE, or CCR. If I was put off with the whole community, then I wouldn't spend the time participating on this forum.

Jeff
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post #25 of 57 Old Mar 20th, 2012, 12:29 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

I had a response written up after the original post, but deleted it, feeling that there was no need to fuel the fires of discontent.
I think what put me off was your seeming rage at the government for their response to a fairy tale. No internal combustion car ever built with zero emissions, yet you flared at the rumored response to nothing.
I have more than enough "reality" to be pissed about. Don't feel the need to make shit up to get mad about.
And don't you work for a contractor bidding out a job to "The Government"?
Just engaging your grey matter here
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post #26 of 57 Old Mar 20th, 2012, 12:41 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDiver
Jeff, I disagree with just about everything you have said. You have taken a very tiny bit and blown it way out of proportion. If you hadn't posted on this forum previously, I'd say you were a troll.

Your rant is like the FD problem. Effects about 4% and not the 96% who I would really like to know better and be associated with. You are way off base.
Dano, I would kindly like to suggest we don't take small percentages unconcernedly, especially when one includes those involving serious matters such as the FD. I don't want to rehash old territory, and I'm guessing there's still a significant number of K1200lt owners who still think a recall should have been made, so I'll use another example to support my statement:

There were over 100 people reported killed (and several hundred more injured) as a result of the firestone tire used on the Ford Explorer between 1992 and 1999. My quick research found over 860,000 Ford Explorers were sold in 1998 and 1999, alone. There were other models that also used the tires, but these numbers mentioned already support my statement, and I am taking into assumption that all 100 people were either driving the Ford product or riding along in it. If not, then the percentage would actually be smaller.

100 divided by 860,000 yields approximately .01162 percent!
throw in the 400 reported injured and it's still only .05814 percent.

There was a recall involved, and it the total costs to Ford and Firestone were in the billions of dollars, as well as the loss of 35,000 jobs, not to mention the related deaths and injuries.

You're probably correct in that the percentage of members I've "ranted" about is insignificant, however to equate it with the FD percentage, as well as saying I'm way off base is not well thought out.

Jeff
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post #27 of 57 Old Mar 20th, 2012, 2:47 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

What is the old saying about a pig in a poke.......after wrestling the pig for a long time in the mud the farmer realized his mistake, the pig liked it.
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post #28 of 57 Old Mar 20th, 2012, 3:07 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

"What is the old saying about a pig in a poke.......after wrestling the pig for a long time in the mud the farmer realized his mistake, the pig liked it."

I agree. Go for a ride.

Bob
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post #29 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 1:23 am Thread Starter
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpmlt
I had a response written up after the original post, but deleted it, feeling that there was no need to fuel the fires of discontent.
I think what put me off was your seeming rage at the government for their response to a fairy tale. No internal combustion car ever built with zero emissions, yet you flared at the rumored response to nothing.
I have more than enough "reality" to be pissed about. Don't feel the need to make shit up to get mad about.
And don't you work for a contractor bidding out a job to "The Government"?
Just engaging your grey matter here
All contractors bid for jobs/contracts to provide goods and services to the government. It's part of the process the government, themselves, mandated. So, what does this have to do with the price of eggs in China?

Jeff
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post #30 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 1:42 am
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

You chose to work for a contractor paid by "The Government". No one held a gun to your head to take that pay check. The point was something about biting the had that feeds. But what do I know.
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post #31 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 1:52 am
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobShirley
"What is the old saying about a pig in a poke.......after wrestling the pig for a long time in the mud the farmer realized his mistake, the pig liked it."

I agree. Go for a ride.

Bob
Post #28 and Mr.Bob Shirley nails it right smack dab...good call and great analogy.
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post #32 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 8:21 am Thread Starter
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
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You chose to work for a contractor paid by "The Government". No one held a gun to your head to take that pay check. The point was something about biting the had that feeds. But what do I know.
Frank, I had a hunch you were alluding to something along this line of thought. Let me ask you this- in a parallel line of reasoning. As a contractor, public servant, service member, are you suggesting these employees turn the other way whenever they see fraud, waste, and abuse occurring? Are they not still citizens who should be concerned about their employer being good stewards of their fellow countrymen's tax-paying dollars?

Should the law enforcement officer who sees corruption within the upper echelons of his department/agency keep his mouth shut, instead of doing the right thing and exposing the perpetrators just because they sign his paycheck each week? Is that what you mean Frank, by "biting the had [sic] that feeds...."

It's the same logic. Often it is people on the inside, if you will, who are exposed to the inefficiencies and ineffective policies/procedures and voice their objections, drawing attention to the problems and sometimes being instrumental in positive change- i.e. more effective government.

What's wrong with this Frank?

What about the housewife who's just trying to take care of her family, but she's the victim of spousal abuse every night because the sole breadwinner has whatever issues and comes home drunk or gets drunk and decides to take out his anger and frustrations on his wife. Your logic would imply she should keep her mouth shut, not report it or seek help, thereby not biting the hand that feeds her.

I guess I'm the one who's doesn't get it?

Jeff
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post #33 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 9:43 am
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Makes no difference whether it's Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Mexico, the USA, big city, suburbia, or countryside, evil thrives when people of good conscience do nothing.

Hope to meet you at an RTE one day. ...and yes, I'm an ATGATT guy, but I'll ride with you whatever you chose to wear when you ride. Forgive me if I encourage you along a more protected path because I want you to stick around.

Benny C. (Central Texas)
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post #34 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 9:44 am
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Thanks for coming in and taking a big dump on our community Mr. 83 posts...

I'm sure we'll all remember you if we ever see you on the road...

Please proof read your posts and they'll make better sense...We have a spell check button too...

I'm betting your life in the Stan's is pretty tough...So I'm not going to go completely off on you but instead thank you for your service..

Could it be, El Guappo, That your are mad about some thing or some one else and are taking it out on your old friend Jeffe ?


Everyone I've ever met from this community has been an awesome person..
Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion.. But, We don't take a crap on each others differences...

Play nice..Or you'll have to buy a lot of beers to redeem your self...

And for the most part, WE DON'T LIKE LOUD PIPES......



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post #35 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:08 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

And it is rather insensitive of you to compare anything like what you are referring to such as an insider whistle blowing, to spousal abuse. How can you compare your situation in a crappy job to a woman or her children being abused in a crappy marriage. I am sure you have never volunteered time in a domestic abuse shelter or you would never have used that example.
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post #36 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:08 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Hey, when did the Crapper forum start up again? I must've missed the memo . . .

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post #37 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:30 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by meese
Hey, when did the Crapper forum start up again? I must've missed the memo . . .
Consider yourself lucky. You only missed the memo. I, apparently, missed the frickin' boat?

Boat, what boat? Did ANYONE see a boat?
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post #38 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:50 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralem
And it is rather insensitive of you to compare anything like what you are referring to such as an insider whistle blowing, to spousal abuse. How can you compare your situation in a crappy job to a woman or her children being abused in a crappy marriage. I am sure you have never volunteered time in a domestic abuse shelter or you would never have used that example.
I never said I was in a crappy job.
Perhaps some in our viewing audience would be able to keep up and follow the flow of conversation if they'd read the whole thread. My recent comments were in response to Frank's outlandish idea I shouldn't complain about the inefficiencies and ineffectiveness of government agencies because I am a defense contractor, therefore I "shouldn't bite the hand that feeds me". I was using these other examples due to the logic being similar and asking Frank if he would reply in same manner to people in such situations.

Jeff
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post #39 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 12:52 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpen
Thanks for coming in and taking a big dump on our community Mr. 83 posts...

John
I have to agree with this statement and post #28. There's no fruit to be obtained by keeping this thread open. I don't believe this site was designed to solve all the world's problems, or to coddle to anyone's insecurities. JMHO

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post #40 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 1:09 pm Thread Starter
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyBob
Makes no difference whether it's Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Mexico, the USA, big city, suburbia, or countryside, evil thrives when people of good conscience do nothing.

Hope to meet you at an RTE one day. ...and yes, I'm an ATGATT guy, but I'll ride with you whatever you chose to wear when you ride. Forgive me if I encourage you along a more protected path because I want you to stick around.
Thanks for the sentiments Benny. I only have a vague idea what you're referring to because as John so pointedly mentioned, I have only 83 posts to my credit, therefor, I don't know the acronym for ATGATT, but I do know "yourself" is one word, instead of two, and I didn't have to rely on an inadequate spelling/grammar checker to know that ahead of time (Thank you John). Perhaps after I reach one thousand posts, I can write in Pig Latin like John uses Spanish.

I do increase my measures of safety, if you will, when I deem the circumstances warrant it, and it seems lately, I should be wearing a full face helmet during these readings to protect myself from all the tomatoes and rotten produce being thrown in my direction.
But it's all good.

John, I'd be happy to buy the first round regardless.

Jeff
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prior:
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post #41 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 2:15 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerj
Thanks for the sentiments Benny. I only have a vague idea what you're referring to because as John so pointedly mentioned, I have only 83 posts to my credit, therefor, I don't know the acronym for ATGATT, but I do know "yourself" is one word, instead of two, and I didn't have to rely on an inadequate spelling/grammar checker to know that ahead of time (Thank you John). Perhaps after I reach one thousand posts, I can write in Pig Latin like John uses Spanish.

I do increase my measures of safety, if you will, when I deem the circumstances warrant it, and it seems lately, I should be wearing a full face helmet during these readings to protect myself from all the tomatoes and rotten produce being thrown in my direction.
But it's all good.

John, I'd be happy to buy the first round regardless.
Jeff,

ATGATT = All The Gear, All The Time.

Here is another you may see from time to time, usually used in referring to sport bike riders who ride in shorts, flip-fops, and tank tops as they wheelie down the Interstate:
SQUID = Surprisingly QUick, Imminently Dead.

Put me on the "first round" list as well, Jeff.

You and I have had a couple exchanges in the forums and via PM, and TO ME, some of your posts in THIS thread seem a bit out of character for you. If I may, it seems to me that your posts here are quite a bit more defensive, and some in a nasty, caustic sort of way. This is not an indictment or a judgement, just a personal observation based solely on my reading of this entire thread up to this point. Stirring the pot to bring forth open and frank conversation is usually not a problem (not that I have ever done that!), but maybe you might try to not piss (almost) everyone off in the beginning.

What you where (whether riding or not) is up to you and will not affect whether or not I ride with you. That will be based solely on the fit of our riding styles and abilities, preferred route types, and overall inter-bike safety factors. I must say, however, that your use of a full-face helmet lately, even if only for reading this thread, is a step in the right direction.

Hope to see you at a future RTE or even at a less organized ride.It is not what you ride, but that you ride.

Antony (Tripod)
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post #42 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 2:17 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralem
What is the old saying about a pig in a poke.......after wrestling the pig for a long time in the mud the farmer realized his mistake, the pig liked it.

Is that like trying to teach a pig to sing? It does not work and both you and the pig end up pissed off.

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post #43 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 2:28 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

I believe that I will end my involvement in this particular discussion as I have with many - with an apology. It is very likely that I do not understand the intent here, or have formed a rash opinion.
My only involvement in Government employ is 4+ years in the military and 26+ years in law enforcement. I too have seen more than a few policies with which I did not agree. I formed my own opinion about handling those situations. I rationed that I had three options:
1) Put myself in a position to make change
2) Leave
3) Shut the f#ck up and deal with it.

Had I know then that there was a fourth option I might have taken it:

4) Post on a BMW forum and change the frickin' world.

AMF
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post #44 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 3:34 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpmlt
AMF
And for those of you not familiar with some of the acronyms used...

ALPHA MIKE FOXTROT = (censored) Let's use Adios Mo Fo as a rough equivalent to the more commonly used translation.

Oops, I was supposed to use Latin and/or Pig-Latin. Oh the horror!


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post #45 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 3:43 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerj
I never said I was in a crappy job.
Perhaps some in our viewing audience would be able to keep up and follow the flow of conversation if they'd read the whole thread. My recent comments were in response to Frank's outlandish idea I shouldn't complain about the inefficiencies and ineffectiveness of government agencies because I am a defense contractor, therefore I "shouldn't bite the hand that feeds me". I was using these other examples due to the logic being similar and asking Frank if he would reply in same manner to people in such situations.
You should take up being a talk show host, you have an answer for everything and no one else' s opinion or perspective could ever be right. Have you ever listened to Mark Davis on WBAP and noticed how he never loses an arguement, that is because he believes that he has the answer for everything and no matter how valid a different perspective a caller offers, the caller is always wrong. Notice that even when you agree with a few here, you still offer a but or an and to their comments. If one was to only read your postings here, one would gather that you had an answer to everything, that you were the most logical and philosophical man on the planet..........my grandfather always reminded me that a person is always less interesting than they think they are. And when I stop participating in this thread you will no longer exists..........
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post #46 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 7:38 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

This is what set him off in the first place - he got bored and looked at a selective "snap shot" in time:

"Wow! I've been reading some old threads ('06 to '08 +), hoping to get an idea of the mindset of this online "community", and some members nearly scare the wits out of me. Last time I looked, I rode my motorcycle in the home of the brave and land of the free...
But here it often sounds like something out of a communist bloc."

From this he has decided who we are and what we represent and choose to attack... nuff said I'm outta here.

Come home safe and lets ride some time. Sounds like it would be good for you.

John
2009 K1300GT Red Rocket
2009 R1200GS (Gone)
2005 K1200LT Ocean Blue Blue Wizard 110 K and counting...
2006 Bushtec Turbo+2 Spell
2004 330 Ci Convertable
K4AN

Have ridden a Motorcycle in all 48
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post #47 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 8:31 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

"I'm sure I don't look any stupider than the clowns who walk up and down the streets and everywhere else with their pants down around their asses."

Um - yes indeed - you do.

If your intent was to stir up a hornet's nest you've achieved your goal. Your behavior is decidedly anti-social. You apparently have a lot of anger and appear to resent anyone that doesn't share your point of view.

Perhaps you're suffering from PTSD and don't realize it.

Get some help dood. Seriously....


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post #48 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 8:59 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzeiler
This is what set him off in the first place - he got bored and looked at a selective "snap shot" in time:

"Wow! I've been reading some old threads ('06 to '08 +), hoping to get an idea of the mindset of this online "community", and some members nearly scare the wits out of me. Last time I looked, I rode my motorcycle in the home of the brave and land of the free...
But here it often sounds like something out of a communist bloc." ...
Jeff, I have to admit I see myself in John's quote of your original post there. In other words, I am guilty of wanting to change someone's motorcycling behavior/way of thinking/whatever to what I thought was "right". Here's where I'm coming from:

I think a long time ago I posted about my friend Steve (several of the guys here have met Steve at a regional riding/get together event called "STC"). When we started riding together, Steve rarely wore a helmet. At some point my wife and I decided we couldn't keep quiet about that, because we just cared too much about him - as in, we didn't want to see the result of what could happen in the case of a minor accident but with nothing to protect his head as it bounced off the pavement. We'd be riding along and talking about it in our intercom. Not what you might think of as "tsk... tsk..." comments, but rather "How do we justify wearing all the gear ourselves but we ride with our friend who doesn't?" For us, it came to the point where we told Steve we wouldn't ride with him unless he wore a helmet. Flat out. No games, not kidding around; dude, you have to wear a helmet or we're going a different direction. Steve wears a helmet every time he rides with us, and we're still friends.

So, that's about as far as we'll take it. We have been able to influence one person's behavior, because we can, on a one-to-one basis. I don't think I'd even try to make the same change at any kind of a larger gathering - the scope is simply too big. That said, here is something I'll admit: I think riders who don't wear helmets are fooling themselves, but I would defend their right to make that decision because I want the freedom to do the same thing (i.e., make my own decisions) - maybe not on the helmet question, but in some other area. Sounds contradictory, but it makes sense to me...

Howard Schisler
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2009 BMW K1200LT - 60k miles
2012 BMW F650GS (sold)
2005 BMW K1200LT - "Gray Ghost", traded at 120k miles
2005 Honda Shadow 650 (sold)
AMA, IBA, BMW MOA. CCRs: Braselton 2006, Osage Beach 2007, Duluth 2012


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post #49 of 57 Old Mar 22nd, 2012, 10:02 pm
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!



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post #50 of 57 Old Mar 23rd, 2012, 9:04 am Thread Starter
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Re: Give me liberty or give me death!

TGIF! (at least for our community members at home who have a couple days off to follow)
I would like to sincerely thank everyone who took the time to reply to this thread.

As I said in the very first post, I was hoping to get an idea of the kind of people who are members of this forum. I have qualified and quantified my perceptions, both good and not so good, based on the few out of reportedly 25,000+ members whose postings I have read (some- not all), as well as interacted with throughout the various threads I have participated in. My formed opinions are only of those- not the whole membership. I found a little of what I was looking for- enough to end my participation in this thread and move on to other topics of interest.

One often seems damned if they do and damned if they don't....Specifically, I have relied on old threads because there seems to be so much chastising when one brings up old topics (it happens at all forums- not just here at BMWlt.com). I'm waiting for the day when I'm at some social function, and I hear someone say "We talked about that last year (or three years ago). We're only talking about new stuff this year." It seems to me this would hinder the life expectancy of any online forum.

Howard, I fully understand your reasoning you mentioned- it parallels the practice of "tough love". While I certainly am a proponent of that practice w/ family, particularly children, I don't think I would find myself using such tactics w/ friends- even those I cherish, but I definitely applaud and respect you for your reasons. Now, if they're in a vehicle I'm operating, then that's a different matter.

Ron, I have read numerous postings of yours, specifically about motorcycles. You have contributed vast amounts of information, which have enlightened me much about the LT- getting me further along the learning curve, too which I will publicly say "Thank You". I do not see abbreviations in your signature block to suggest you are professionally licensed in medicine, so please don't try to diagnose my mental state of well-being.

John Zeiler, I have concluded you would be one of the go-to guys for your expert knowledge and experience in mechanics. I hope to learn even more from your posts. You managed to quote me, but you misinterpreted what I said, but I'll just listen more and talk less.

Frank, again, thank you for your service during a horrific time in America's military history. I like your spirit, so I'll buy your first three rounds if I'm fortunate enough to get the opportunity.

Jeff
Big D is my neck of the woods

99 K1200LT (don't need loud pipes w/ 8 spk. stereo)
08 HD wide glide
prior:
07 HD XL1200C (sold!
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